MLB attendance down ..Nationals leading the way

[Upton]

Through 5-21 MLB attendance is down 6.4% overall from the same period last year.

18 of the 30 clubs are seeing declines, with 9 of the 18 seeing double digit declines.

Top decliners are the Washington Nationals....down a whopping 30.12% from last year and the Detroit Tigers down 27.72%.

The Pirates are down only .28% but 4 games at PNC Park have seen attendance of less than 10,000 and they remain dead last in MLB averaging but 15,668 per game.

By contrast, the Giants are actually up 7.43% averaging 33,951.

I guess I should also mention that the the Dodgers are up 21.94% to an average of 42,479. Of course most of that attendance was before Manny got busted.


http://www.bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3273:inside-mlb-attendance-part-i-looking-at-early-08-to-09&catid=56:ticket-watch&Itemid=136

[Onceuponalife]

1. It's still going up....

The Dodgers averaged 55,000 in the three game series against the Angels. A T & T Park can't even hold that many.

[Upton]

2. True but the Giants are filling a higher percentage

of their seats...

After this past weekend:

Dodgers-44,089..78.7%

Giants-33,950..81.7%

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

Both clubs are doing well considering the current economic climate.

[cboy4]

5. Was that Angels series the one in which Anaheim

came in and humiliated the Dodgers taking 2-of-3?

Help me remember.

[Onceuponalife]

13. I guess to a Giants fan

losing a series means humiliation. To a 31-15 team, they yawn, adjust their junk, and go score 16 runs the next day.

Ho hum.

[madinmaryland]

3. Interesting stat, kiddoe. Here's another one.

Pittsburgh: 20-24
SF Balco's: 20-23

Based on your statistics, there are at least 16,000 more ASSHOLES attending a losing team in SF PER GAME, than in Pittsburgh. Maybe you just need to STFU.

[ProfessorGAC]

4. What Madinmaryland Said

Got your back! I'm tired of being nice around this form. That's quite enough from the loser brigade. It's entirely tedious. Provacative without a point!

GAC

[cboy4]

6. How 'bout those Cubs?!? LOL!!

Let's see, their payroll is a disgraceful:

$134,809,000

Last year it was "only":

$118,345,833

Did you know the Cubs actually have the third highest payroll in Major League Baseball? The Cubs' payroll is higher than the Red Sox and the world champion Philadelphia Phillies!! ($113,004,046) :wow:

Only the New York Yankees and New York Mets have higher payrolls at

$201,449,189

and

$149,373,987

respectively.

Giants payroll? Only------------> $82,616,450

Still a disgrace, considering there are intramural softball teams that have far greater offenses, but the Cubs are just pathetic.

[ProfessorGAC]

14. Next Time, Have A Point

GAC

[cboy4]

18. The point sailed right over your noggin

And you're a professor or something?

Scary.

[madinmaryland]

35. What a fucking disgrace you are coby4.

And you're a fucking sophomore in high school or something.

Grow the FUCK up.

[cboy4]

7. Hey, if you're proud of the fact Oakland's AAA team in

Sacramento draws as many people as they get in Pittsburgh -- and on some nights more -- to watch the River Cats -- in just as beautiful a venue, along a much cleaner river, then you were dropped on your head more times than I figured.




http://usairwaysmag.com/2008_04/stadiums.php

#2 Raley Field

Location: Sacramento, California

Team and League: Sacramento River Cats, Pacific Coast League

MLB Affiliation: Oakland Athletics

Class: Triple A This park is known for its fun atmosphere, and it has the highest attendance numbers in Minor League Baseball. The place is hopping on Friday and Saturday nights when fans gather to socialize and enjoy the baseball action.

=============================================================================

One of the larger crowds in Pittsburgh

:rofl:

[Upton]

8. I see..so in your opinion

there's something wrong with the fans of the Bay Area because, unlike Pittsburgh, they support their team win or lose...that's an interesting take.

BTW, considering my post was about the drop in MLB attendance, it would have been remiss of me not to have mentioned the Pirates, Nats and Tigers..all of whom were featured prominently in the article I linked back too. If that offended your rather curious sensibilities that's just too damn bad.

[madinmaryland]

9. Which way do you want it kiddoe?

You argue one thing one day, then the other way the next day. Apparently your "boy" is writing your posts.

BTW, the drop in MLB attendance is the ECONOMY.

[Upton]

10. If you're talking about the overall league wide 6.4% drop

yes I agree, it's the economy...but if you're talking about Pittsburgh specifically, it's apathy. The Pirates have been no higher than 27th since 2003.

[madinmaryland]

11. Did you read what the fuck I wrote, or did you filter it through cboy/coby?

It's the fucking economy and may I add Bud Selig (that coby and I agree on) is ruining the game. It's not even a fucking sport anymore.

:grr:

[Upton]

12. You can't blame the economy for everything

Pirates league ranking in average attendance:

2003-26th

2004-27th

2005-27th

2006-27th

2007-27th

2008-28th

2009(through 20 games)-30th

If nothing else the Pirates are consistent losers, both on the field and at the turnstile...

[Forkboy]

15. hey Upton, let's say you're right. That beggers the question....

Who the fuck gives a shit? When you're a Giants fan you have very little room to talk about sucky teams. So, is this your only way to enjoy your team's season, by trying to single out the handful of teams worse than your own? Can't you see just how sad that is?

The fans of good teams laugh their asses off at this stuff. Nothing like an argument over which city's teams and fans suck the most, when they both suck. :rofl:

[cboy4]

17. The thread is about attendance and how certain crummy franchises

draw worse than minor league teams.

The Giants, who are below .500, drew more than 40,000 yesterday against a poor draw.

They, despite heading toward another disaster of a season are still drawing 36,000 a game.

The Pirates? They're a disgrace. That's the point.

And you guys can't even beat the Mets at home.

So why are you insinuating that you're a fan of a good team laughing your asses off?

It's now clear the Yankees will win the AL East. There's no question about it.

[trumad]

19. I don't know what I'd rather have---

a team with great attendance but with zero world championships--- or a team with lousy attendance and two world series rings since 1997.

I'll go with the winners.

[Upton]

24. That's hardly a surprise..what else can you say?

The Marlins are currently 28th in attendance averaging a pathetic 18,763 per game.....what an embarrassment.

[cboy4]

25. I would too .. but it doesn't make it any less humiliating and

disgraceful .. and inexcusable .. let's behonest.

[trumad]

29. Lookie---a tag team from Hansel and Gretel...

Oh I agree the attendance is awful...

But again I ask---would you rather have a team that won a couple of World Series in the last 2 decades---- or a team with good attendance?

But then again--- I'm asking two douche bags who have nothing to compare.

[Forkboy]

20. "The Pirates? They're a disgrace. That's the point."

What's the point of that point? Why is their being a disgrace such an important thing to you? Do you wish to see them disbanded? I honestly don't understand the goal here.

Who really cares if they're a disgrace unless you're a suffering Pirates fan? If anything, a fan from other cities should be happy because their team gets to play that disgrace and do better, so it would be a plus to have them in your division or league. Look at the Raiders! Wouldn't you drool at the thought of being able to play them and slap them silly year after year? I wish the Patriots played them 16 times a year!

It's easy to get into defending your city. I've been to quite a few and have found cool things to like in all of them. Boston, New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Montreal...I liked them all (and love New York). For all my harping on Bonds or the Giants I'd still love to see San Fran. I don't equate him or the team to the actual city or the people there. We get too wrapped in equating our own coolness to how well our quasi-home teams do. How many players on the Giants, Red Sox, Bruins or Sharks are even from Boston or San Francisco? I'll root for them, but fuck 'em when it comes to taking them seriously, or as a reflection of myself.

Having said all that, the Red Sox ARE a good team, as you know.

:yoiks:

:)

[cboy4]

23. I'm not saying any of that. But you're the one who went after upton

for a point he wasn't even trying to make.

He was talking about attendance. He wasn't going on a rant about teams that don't win.

And fortunately, the Boston city sports dynasty has come to a merciful end.

Hopefully it'll be the Blue Jays winning the east this season instead of the Mets.

But it won't be the Red Sox, thank goodness.

[madinmaryland]

36. The point is, douchebag, is that attendance is fucking meaningless and is

something you and coby4 have attached themselves to.

[cboy4]

16. Don't drag me into this about Selig....That has nothing to do with

your embarrassing product and subsequent attendance in a brand new venue.

[PRETZEL]

21. Maybe a little perspective,

San Fran has a population of what, a little over 800k (per wiki). Pittsburgh somewhat less at around 312k (again wiki). That's about 2.50 time larger?

Quick math,

15,668 x 2.50 = 39,170.

seems to match up fairly well with the Giants, doesn't it.

Pittsburgh is a small market, what's so hard to understand. Or is it that only cities with populations over 500k are allowed to have sports teams.

[cboy4]

22. See, I bet that's the lame, lame excuse the Pirates organization

uses to justify not competing in the Central.

Oh the Mets and the Phillies and the Cubs and the Astros play in such larger cities, blah blah.

Sorry, but when the Marlins starting winning rings, that excuse about how only big market teams could win was thrown out the window.

[PRETZEL]

26. At what point in this conversation did the topic change from attendance

to the product put out on the field.

You're ragging on Pittsburgh and their low attendance, not the team itself. I'd be more than happy to talk about the team and their strengths/weaknesses any time. I like what they've done the last couple of years. It was sad to see Bay and Nady leave, but what they got back is starting to pay dividends and will continue for the next few years.

I personally hate that management is looking at this from a business perspective and is not putting out more money on payroll for top tier players. They've had that philosophy through many ownership groups.

But as fans of the team, good or bad, I think we stack up as well as any other city.

[cboy4]

27. I thought it was a natural transition, considering you suggested

it's okay for the crappy Pirates to draw small crowds considering it has a smaller metro population than the not as crappy Giants.

Of course, one could argue what else is there to do in Pittsburgh, while in the Bay Area, there's a million things to do, including something I like to do, which is surf. And, there's another MLB team in town competing for attendance.

So it's apples and oranges comparing San Francisco and Pittsburgh, PRETZEL.

It's not like nobody shows up to watch the Steelers and the Penguins who have sold out how many seasons in a row? Or something like that.

So stop making excuses for the Pirates. If they put even a half way decent product on the field, or displayed even some indication they are committed to improving, maybe they would draw more than 10,000 a game.

By the way, and sorry I'm picking on you, but you're exactly the kind of fan the Pirates organization adores. They make shitty-ass moves, yet you find a way to embrace them instead of lashing out as you should.

The reason the Pirates don't feel they have to compete is because the fans are satisfied. You lose Jason Bay and you're not irate?!! You're talking instead about dividends? Here's what's going to happen PRETZEL: Any such dividends you mention will also leave the way of Bay to Boston.

You don't recognize that?

[PRETZEL]

28. Couple of things,

First and foremost Pittsburgh is by no means some little backwoods city as you may like to think. I'm glad you like living in San Fran. Growing up in Pittsburgh (and as much as you'd like to disagree) my life was much more than just the Pirates, Steelers and Pens.

It's not apples and oranges. It's not divided loyalties between the Giants and the A's. If you want to make that argument go ahead.

Don't worry about picking on me.

And yeah, I haven't been happy with the team the Pirates have put on the field. There isn't a fan out there that wouldn't love to see us keep the players we've developed and who've left for the paydays once their contracts were up or that we've traded for prospects only to have the cycle repeat itself. It's idiotic to think otherwise. I grew up in the era of Clemente, Stargell, Mazeroski so I've seen good times and bad. Am I the so-called fan that the organization adores, nope. What I am is a loyal fan of Pittsburgh sports, good bad or otherwise.

[trumad]

33. Ah don't get worked up by Cdouche,,,

He's just pissed your Steelers have more rings than his Niners.

[Upton]

34. You forget...

Multiple Super Bowl Winning Percentages

1. 49ers...5-0 1000 (when the 49ers get to the big game, they win. The Dolphins should know something about that..having been humiliated by the Niners in Marino's only appearance..what a big game QB he was..LOL)

2. Steelers..6-1 .857

10. Dolphins..2-3 .400 (pathetic, particularly when taking into account it's been over 35 years since the last victory)

[trumad]

37. Ahhh the douche rationel...

Sorry Pal...

The question is---who has the most Super Bowl wins?

You lose with that one.

[trumad]

30. Uh South Florida has about 3.5 million people...

It's a big market.

[Upton]

31. Then where are they?

a team like the Marlins should be supported. They would be somewhere else.

Some areas are truly major league, some aren't...unfortunately, when it comes to baseball, Miami falls in the latter category.

I think it's pretty obvious the people of South Florida are not worthy of a MLB franchise.

[trumad]

32. Perhaps--

but I say that the great fans of San Fran are truly worthy of a team that can at least win one World Series in it's sad existence.

Those poor loyal fans------ Showing their loyalty to a team year end and year out only to be disappointed at seasons end.

I guess you could say that the Giant's fans are the Cub's fans of the West.

God it must be weird to support losing.

[Upton]

38. Five years ago

you would have called Giants fans the Red Sox fans of the West but times change.... the Giants will rise again and unlike the fair weather fans of South Florida, Bay Area fans who follow their team through thick and thin can truthfully say they are REAL sports fans.

BTW, as for supporting losing, you should know all about that being a fan of the hapless Dolphins.

[trumad]

39. Rise again?

LOL

Uh--- and BTW: Since the 1970 merger---the Phins are the winningest team in the NFL.

No dude---I support winning---and don't need to fall back on some lame ass attendance argument.

That's all you got--- attendance?

[SteelPenguin]

40. It's all about the benjamins

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/33/biz_baseball08_The-Business-Of-Baseball_Income.html

These numbers are from 2007, so it's hard to know where the Nationals are currently at this year, but the Pirates are around about the same. They profited over 17 million dollars in 2007 on revenues of 139 million, where for instance the Red Sox lost 20 million on 263 million in revenues. The Giants made 19.9 million operating income on 197 million in revenues.

The reason attendance has bottomed out in Pittsburgh is that there not only hasn't been a good team here in close to 2 decades, but the people have wised up to the fact that the organization has absolutely no plans to put a competitive product on the field. For them it's about the money. Thanks to the ridiculous luxury tax implementation in MLB they suck in money from other clubs like the Red Sox and they are able to be as profitable or moreso than competitive teams.

In their mind, would they rather sit in the cellar and make 20 million profit a year, or be a .550 team and break even, or be a pennant winner and lose 40 million. For them it's a business, and the people of Pittsburgh have realized it, though it took the better part of 2 decades for it really to sink in. Now in Pittsburgh the Pirates are practically a minor league team. It's something to go to and have fun, but nobody really 'follows' them anymore.

It's sad really, but that's what the CBA has brought us to. Teams being able to be profitable by putting the minimum of shit on the field.