My ongoing complaint about the writing that I see in online workshops

[Orrex]

:rant:

I know that an online forum isn't exactly the place to rub elbows with James Joyce and Octavia Butler, but I don't have access to a local writers' group, so I'm forced to work with what I can get.

However...

Almost without exception, none of the participants in these groups has any concept of composition. To them, it's sufficient to throw the words on the page, and if they vaguely describe something like what the writer was thinking about, so much the better. They have no sense of how to structure a moment, a paragraph, a scene, or anything to enhance to the conveying of an idea. They are endlessly hobbled by terrible word choices, flat sentence structure, and a near-total lack of consciousness about what they're actually writing.

The other complaint is that most of them have no idea of how to write dialogue. To them, it's either a string of hamfisted one-liners or a means of giving the reader great swaths of expository back-story.


Anyone else run into anything like this?

[jotsy]

1. Don't know that I'm the huckleberry you want to hear from...

Critters is the only one I'm familiar with outside of facebook groups, and it didn't feel fair of me to hand out assessments when I wasn't throwing my own work out for the same kind of scrutiny. As for the others I mentioned, well, they didn't pan out for me, the only busy site was a place where interaction became political and popularity driven. Most, just not reliably active.

Five or six years ago, I paid $70 for a 'community' writing class and half the session was taken up watching parceled out video of 'Dances With Wolves'. The instructor claimed that all stories follow some kind of a 12 step formula and used the movie as her example. I tired of this approach about half way through, just stopped going and was never satisfied with how I'd spent my money.

Given the long span of history of written words, and the generation or the marketability of them, writers are always looking to push the proverbial envelope. I think the term experimental and the wide range of perception such an expression inspires may contribute to a loss of form, in the traditional sense anyway.

Are there bookstore with chat space within reach? A community college with an activities lounge? Maybe there are opportunities to be created for a face to face environment and that way there's no sifting through a huge pile of writers and only a fraction you have any faith in.

Disclaimer: Your list of grievances there are chocked full of my worst habits and I may be exactly the kind of wannabe that you're looking to avoid. I respond because there's nowhere near the action in this forum there should be with so many good writers floating about.

[SheilaT]

2. You really need to do everything possible

to get a real, live, in-person writing group started. Unless you live more than fifty miles from the nearest settlement of any kind, you should be able to get something going.

Try local junior colleges, put some kind of an ad in a local newspaper. You may need to be ruthless in limiting the group to those who are actually serious about being published, and not just engaging in some form of mental masturbation.

I got my start, so to speak (and I'm not exactly a famous, published writer) when I took a creative writing course at the University in the town I lived in. About five of us put together our own writers' group after it was over, and that was quite invaluable in honing my skills.

I've never participated in an on-line group like that, but I can easily see that it might attract people who have no honest idea of what goes into decent writing. Good luck. Let us know if you have eventual success.

[MorningGlow]

3. You mean...

bad writers?
:rofl:

Yeah. There are lots of those. The clues I usually go by is if someone writes that something is cooked "to perfection" or a woman eats a pint of Ben & Jerry's after a breakup. Then I know they're hopeless.

Still, you COULD have fun with these types of online group--hone your writing skills by composing scathing online criticisms of their crap. ;)

Seriously, I second the idea of checking out local colleges--at least at places of higher learning there's a semblance of some sort of attempt to write better than what my writing professors always called "splat" (throw it on the page and call it art). Good luck, man. :hi:

[Orrex]

4. LOL!

Yes, they're bad writers, but they're somehow even worse than that; they're aggressively proud of exactly what makes their writing so bad in the first place!

I can honestly say that they respond to criticism pretty well, at least they know enough not to take it personally. But when they subsequently submit a revised draft for further critique, they've usually ignored everything I had to say about the first one.

It isn't as though I'm taking abstract, purely subjective pot-shots, either! It's stuff like "don't use the word 'angry' four times in three sentences" or "how can he race out of the room when you've already established that the door is locked?"

Stuff like this really demonstrates that they're not paying attention to their own writing, so why in the world would anyone else want to?

[Ozymanithrax]

5. I've had some success with Critique Circle.

http://www.critiquecircle.com/

It can be dificult to get a dedicated local group to meet. Constructive criticims is important in developing as a writer.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Second vote for critique circle

and I have proposed a few times our own DU critique group...

We could use, (should use) the PM system for that... but it never goes anywhere.

[nuxvomica]

7. I've been perusing the Nathan Bransford forums lately

The quality of the writing and the critiquing there seems to be better, more serious than other forums I've tried. You might want to check it out.
http://forums.nathanbransford.com/

[Orrex]

8. Thanks--I'll look into it

:hi: