An example of a critique

[jotsy]

This critique has also been critiqued, so some editing has occurred as a result of trying to heed good advice. Sorry about the freaky formatting folks. It's an edited PM and if there's a way to more consistently flow the text once transferred here, well then I'd be pleased to know about it.

>In assembling my comments, I try to see mine as the job of
>assessing a passage and how convincingly it flows from the
>page to the minds eye. All I might suggest is in the name of
>seeing you hit a target handier. In that aim I hope lies the
>distinction between critique and criticism.
>
>Expedience
> It’s among my favorite words, useful for the purpose is an
>approach I contend should be taken in the production of prose.
>I also hear some of Strunk and White’s merciless but emphatic
>advice in The Elements of Style about omitting needless words.
>
>
>Examples
> Atavis pulled Donyon aside at this moment and whispered to
>him.
>He turned his head to the other side and saw two small, dark
>feet in sandals.
>
>‘at this moment’ and ‘to the other side’ delay me from the
>juicy stuff up and coming)
>
>
>Dialog
>To illustrate an expected rapport between comrades can be an
>opportunity to better personalize some of the conversation.
>Even in the connotation of attribution, we can insert a more
>specific expression.
>
>Examples “It is not just to call this man a sand-eater,
>brother,” said Atavis.
>
the option of something like ‘the elder admonished’ or ’he
>quietly/privately scolded’ are indicators of tone or relationship, or even addressing the nature of
>the ‘whisper’ from the sentence before.
>
>The interaction with the goatling, the second “Baaahah”. Ashpot repeated, confirmed or
>insisted are options that could serve to illustrate their close knit bond by using the goat's name
>
>
>Word choice
> In a painter’s world, there are many shades of all colors. I
>don’t see the writer’s world a whole lot differently. Take hot
>for example. There’s spicy and steamy and scorching and
>scathing, stifling and sizzling. And that’s just words
>beginning with an s.
>
>Examples
>Near the front, the various forms of faithful might be
>interchanged with philosophy, creed or doctrine. At the
>passage’s heart where pain is, it could be fresher, deeper,
>sharper, drenching, some are cold and icy, others fiery and
>heated. In the last couple of sentences where Olmak’s young
>cousin’s hand is extended, for her to offer, reach out,
>stretch or give.
>
>
>Those are the three elements of fiction I chose to address, if
>I had anything to add it would be about writing in general,
>making this bit of correspondence lengthier than it already
>is.
>
>I appreciate the opportunity, and I hope what I’ve said makes
>sense and is helpful. With your consent, I’d like to post this
>in the writer’s forum at DU; won’t do it if you’d rather I
>not. I have though, as promised, written and posted a passage
>of my own for you to have at.
>
>
>
>To good story and other telling tales then!

>

[nuxvomica]

1. I found your notes to be pretty much spot-on

I've rewritten to incorporate most of them and will keep your general comments in mind as I revise other sections. I still have work to do on the pain description. Note that "faithful" and "unfaithful" are local idioms in the story. They are used by the Thujwani to distinguish themselves from the peoples they enslaved, so they are used frequently.
I was reluctant to include Ashpot's name in a dialogue tag because I wanted the narration of the somewhat mystical scene to be sterile from the narrator's perspective. But "insisted Ashpot" works for me. It emphasizes the bond between the two, which is critical to the emotional impact of the scene. And anyone who's ever had a pet would recognize that their pleading is best described as "insistent".
Good catch on the "extended hand". I removed the second stage direction completely. I had never noticed that redundancy before.


Atavis pulled Donyon aside and whispered to him. “It is not just to call this man a sand-eater, brother,” he admonished. “We are required by our office, and our faith, to abandon such name-calling.”
“Yea,” said Donyon, his rage cooled somewhat by this sanction. “That was an error I made. But I am so astounded at times by the conceit of these dusky, unfaithful people. I have been to the farm town and you know, they treat us like miscreants there. They walk with the posture of a king among us and their children snicker and point to us when they are out of reach of the bludgeon. They are such cowardly fools.”
“Aye, brother. It is hard work for us but we are above them and must always practice to be that way.”
The two turned to their prisoner again. “I find no truth in your story,” said Atavis officiously. “I suspect you had a foul motive for attacking the child. I am a faithful man,” he continued, leaning close to Olmak’s bruised face. “So I have no ken for the foul motives of the unfaithful. You will have to confess your reasons anon. All that is unknown is how much you will suffer before speaking the truth.”
“But I swear, sir,” pleaded Olmak. At that, Atavis walked around behind the brickwoven chair and adjusted a small iron rod that prodtruded from the back of it. The seat pulled tighter against Olmak’s thighs, the arm-rests prevented even the spreading of his fingers much less the movement of his hands from its otherwise slippery, well-glazed surface and his back was held so fiercely that he felt his belly might be pulled completely inward. Pain again flared in his abdomen and as the all-binding tugged inexorably at his lungs, he became alarmed at the shortness of his breathing. He felt as though he were drowning but this alarm was trumped by a pain like a strong hand grasping his heart and clenching it unmercifully. Moments passed and the clenching did not relax and if it had been an actual hand, it surely would have been a hand of stone or iron.
Soon the cold, blue-lit chamber fell away and Olmak was sure he was in the desert again. The guards were gone and he was lying face down, feeling the warmth of the desert sun on his back, hurting from some trivial bruise. How good he felt, though. Something wet and warm was touching his hand. He turned to look and there was a small grey goatling, a kid with no horns, staring at him with bright eyes. It had been licking his hand and now with Olmak showing a sign of life, the creature made an exultant “Baaaah!”
“Ashpot,” he said without emotion, if only to convince himself that this long departed companion was real and this was not a dream. The goatling, he remembered, had grown old and had died many years past. “Baaaah!” insisted Ashpot, as though to assure him that this moment was indeed real and all that he had thought he remembered was a fevered dream.
He turned and saw two small dark feet in sandals. Looking up he saw a young girl, which reminded him of the issue at hand though his mind was wont to let that slip away. Compared to the Thujwani girl, she was darker skinned and wore a more brightly colored robe. She extended a slender hand to him and spoke.
“Cousin, you are crying,” she said. “There is no need for that. You are better than those boys. You are the son of a prince.”
“Little Bird?” he said, as she grasped his hand and helped him to his feet. And then this gentler grasp released, and the desert was gone, and all was darkness, and there was nothing.

[jotsy]

2. I think I understand about the faithful/unfaithful thing.

An institutionalized expression from a world you've created. How far into your story is this scene?

Haven't checked out your query letter post in depth, but absolutely, list that experience you mentioned as a credit.

Have some domestic duty chores waiting if the man is to whip up Sunday brunch, and then pick up where I left off with a lengthy email to a pen pal that got eaten while in process earlier today.

What do you know about the 'evil editor' site mentioned on a recent thread? I gave it a quick look-see and think I'll try to engage a bit there.

[nuxvomica]

3. I've heard of Evil Editors on some other writing forum

I've stayed away from it because my virus software tags the site as untested.

The excerpt I posted is in scene 6 out of 7 in chapter 6 (out of 9 chapters). Each chapter follows a day in the story allowing me to include this line after the synoptic info in my query letter:

The Brickweavers is a 95,000-word science-fiction novel, chronicling nine days that literally shook Thujwa.
:-)

I've been posting lately on Nathan Bransford's forums:
http://forums.nathanbransford.com/

It's not very fast moving but the quality of the discourse is much better than on other writer forums I've been to. There's none of the here's-what-I-just-wrote-this-morning-tell-me-how-much-you-love-it kind of logrolling that I've seen elsewhere. People posting for critiques actually want criticism and are grateful for it.

[Orrex]

4. Regarding dialog

>Dialog
>To illustrate an expected rapport between comrades can be an
>opportunity to better personalize some of the conversation.
>Even in the connotation of attribution, we can insert a more
>specific expression.

Be very sparing in the use of colorful attributions in this fashion. A few carefully chosen words like "barked" or "guffawed" or "whimpered" can be effective, but if you aren't cautious it will look like the author is desperate to use any word simply to avoid writing "she said," and the whole thing will look trite.

[nuxvomica]

5. I struggled with dialogue tags when I first started writing the novel

I would often pause in a scene with a lot of dialogue and try not to use "said" or "replied" twice in a row. It seemed forced though and I looked at other novels that I like to see how real authors handled the problem. They used "said" repeatedly at times and I realized while reading their dialogue that the common tags often slipped by without notice. It was the attribution following "said" that I caught as a reader and at times that can be left out too. So the guidelines I tried to follow were these: If it's really obvious who is talking, let the dialogue float there without a tag. If it's not obvious, use a common tag, like "said" or "replied". If you need to emphasize any characterization of the speech, use a descriptive tag, such as what Jotsy suggested for the pet goat.
Of course, the issue of when to use the character's name, a pronoun or some noun descriptive of the character is a whole 'nother can of worms entirely.

[Orrex]

7. You've stated it very nicely

The key, as you note, is that "she said" or even "he asked" will slip by as easily as commas. But if you stick a more obtrusive indicator onto the character's dialogue, then that indicator had better be worth it, because it'll draw extra attention.

I also agree with you about letting "the dialogue float there without a tag" when possible, and in fact I'm sometimes surprised at how easy it is to avoid direct attribution almost entirely. For instance:

Disgusted, Marcy stepped back from the engine. "We need a new water pump."

Bob glared at her. "Where will we get one out here?"

"Beats me, but we aren't going anywhere without it."

"Why didn't we get a rental?"

"It's your brother's car."

He frowned. "I should've known better."

"Yes," she said. "You should have."

Obviously that's far from Pulitzer material, but you get the idea. The only direct attribution is in the final line of dialogue, and its placement there inserts a deliberate pause into the diction. As such, the attribution serves a purpose beyond telling the reader which character is speaking. The benefit in cases like this--when it works--is that you can use the character's action to set up the tone of the dialogue. For instance, after Bob glares at Marcy, we have a pretty good idea of how his voice will sound in his next line!

Of course, even this requires careful and sparing use, because the technique will become trite just as quickly as will the over use of dynamic attributions.

[jotsy]

6. After reading your comments

I grabbed the first handy paperback from the bookshelf, which turned out to be Stephen King's Everything's Eventual. Hunted for a page with a lot of dialog and happened upon 1408. Many different mechanisms employed over a section of about three pages. Sure enough, said is what's used half the time or more, with the remainder being a mixed bag of tricks of qualifiers, pronouns or quotes that stand unassisted. I also found something of a surprise, in his book On Writing, the toolbox chapter lists his own pet peeves as adverbs, which he advises are to be used in moderation, yet there were some, most often to embellish a 'said'. What I found myself thinking about though was my failure to anticipate the luxuries and liberties established authors might enjoy as compared to new writers. If there's a chance the work of a lesser known name faces greater scrutiny, then perhaps the value of your advice outweighs what I've tried to offer here.