Tell your kids how NOT to get busted.

[maxsolomon]

My stepdaughter is 17. Guess what? She has smoked marijuana & drank alcohol. GASP! She also has a 3.8 GPA, plays varsity soccer, plays piano, guitar, & takes math BEYOND calculus. Other parents describe her as "the brightest bulb in the class".

As inveterate illegal drug users ourselves, we've tried above all not to be hypocrites. Our discussions regarding drugs have always focused on responsibility rather than prohibition; don't DRIVE drunk, don't carry paraphenalia, and despite living in Seattle, you live in America; basically a police state. This weekend, she got to see it up close.

Saturday night, she & about 7 of her buds are staying at a parent's house & decide to head down to the dock at the park about 1 a.m. They had no alcohol. They all sat peacefully on the dock smoking out & talking. 3 friends headed back to the house, where the Kirkland Po "interviewed" them for being out on the streets at that time, wrote down all their names & addresses. The cops then headed to the dock & proceeded to arrest & handcuff 1 boy for posession with INTENT TO DISTRIBUTE (he had a quarter on him), cite the hostess for MIP, and scare the F out of the rest of the kids. She called us at 2 a.m. freaked that the Po was going to call us first (they never called, they were bluffing).

Their mistake in my mind was not smoking dope. It was carrying anything but a joint or 2 that could be easily tossed in the lake. Don't tell your kids to never ever ever smoke dope. Be realistic. Tell them how not to get busted. Tell your kids: NEVER CARRY MORE THAN A GRAM. NEVER CARRY PARAPHENALIA.

[On the Road]

1. I Absolutely Agree

As I heard Bill Buckley of all people say once, "my granddaughter is in greater danger from the authorities than from the effects of the substance."

[firefox]

20. the ONDCP ads

They are still running ads to demonize pot like money is no problem. The ad where grandma is sitting alone and the announcer says to tell her you are late because you smoked pot is dumb as it gets. The real harms from laughing grass are the laws and a truer reality would say that you are late because you were arrested for laughing grass.

Two thousand people a day are arrested over laughing grass when they are crimeless victims. Cannabis Prohibition is an example of the similarities of the two parties. Niether party will talk about the indefensible position of continuing prohibition. But they do allow an inordinate amount of taxpayer money for propaganda to demonize the greatest medicinal plant in history, yet not spend one penny to tell the great harms that come from prohibition.

People have really been played on Cannabis Prohibition although half the country is probably in favor of legalization and regulation. I wish I could tell you a figure, but the political machinery has seen to it that there has not been a major poll in over two years. My thought is that the majority are now for legalization and regulation like alcohol and the PTB do not want the American people to know they are now ignoring the Majority on the legalization issue just like they ignore history, science , and the 4 out of 5 Americans that are for MMJ.

Free Cannabis For Everyone.

[creeker]

45. YES-- when I was 14 the crap I read about weed was so far off the spectrum

I had to try it(1974)

[Lars39]

2. These days I think I'd take a rubber band and a rock and sink it fast.

I've wondered this for a while...do you think posting particulars could lead to "probable cause"? Kinda makes me nervous when folks post some of the things they do. Not your post in particular. :hi:

[mike_c]

3. intent to distribute for a quarter oz?!

That's got to be a nuisance charge-- no DA in their right mind would press that. Here in norcal that would generally get you a citation without arrest unless there are other charges or circumstances involved. And the cops would confiscate the bag, of course. :evilgrin:

[PerpetualWinter]

36. It'll be dropped...

If the kid gets nailed even with just the possession nothing will really come of it anyway. A little diversion, and "don't do it again."

[MsUnderstood]

4. ummm. . .yea that would work too

How about . . .

"Don't wander around after curfew"

"Don't smoke out in public"

"Don't hang out with dealers"

I know kids will be kids but what message are you sending by blaming the authorities for enforcing the laws?

You are lucky all the cops did was scare the kids. This could have screwed up her future plans, all for having a little "fun" on the dock.

[maxsolomon]

13. she did not hang out with a dealer

the kid had a quarter of an ounce.

where would you suggest that high school kids do it, then? their entire existence has basically been criminalized.

why IS there a curfew for teens? are we under martial law? i find it difficult to defend the police for enforcing unjust laws.

[tx_dem41]

14. At 17...I didn't have to smoke pot to have an "entire existence"...

funny that....

[maxsolomon]

18. neither do today's teenagers

that is not the point i tried to make.

there is nowhere for them to go, no where for them to be, nothing for them to do. everything is illegal except going to IHOP.

[PerpetualWinter]

37. Neither did I, but...

I smoke pot because I like it. That is why I started smoking, albeit I was 21. I've seen plenty of accomplished teenagers (both athletically and academically) that are regular smokers. Personally I think that statement shows as much ignorance towards the drug as those we are fighting against.

[MsUnderstood]

22. wow someone more liberal than me

Who would have thunk it. . .someone more liberal than me.

Seriously how can we debate the issue if you don't even believe in the basic principals of protecting children from Societal influences.

A curfew is necessary to keep kids inside so the police can spend their time catching real criminals committing real crimes.

Kids aren't adults with no responsibilities, they are a special section of society that needs protections from parents and others who try to prey on their innoncence.

[K-W]

24. So removing the liberties of minors is justifiable

if it expediates law enforcement?

Kids aren't adults with no responsibilities, they are a special section of society that needs protections from parents and others who try to prey on their innoncence.

They also need protection from those who would abuse that authority to remove the liberty of minors because it is convienent and minors cant stand up for themselves.

[maxsolomon]

27. name one real crime occurring in Kirkland Washington

the cops have 2 jobs:
1. catching speeders
2. harassing teenagers

there is barely any theft, there is barely any violence because it is an upper class suburban munincipality. there is no economic diversity.

when you treat people like criminals, they act like criminals.

and i'm not a liberal, i'm a social libertarian.

[Angry Girl]

5. NORML has legal information for each state

For Washington State:
Possession of less than 40 grams is punishable by up to 90 days in jail and a fine up to $1,000. For amounts of 40 grams or more the penalties increase to up to five years in prison and a fine up to $10,000.

Cultivation, delivery or sale of marijuana is punishable by up to five years in prison and a fine up to $10,000. Any sale to a minor at least three years younger than the offender doubles the possible penalties.

It is an affirmative defense to violations of marijuana-related laws that the person, possessing no more than is necessary for personal medical use for up to sixty days, has valid documentation and meets all criteria as a qualifying patient or as a primary caregiver.

Possession, manufacture or delivery of paraphernalia is punishable by up to 90 days in jail and a fine up to $1,000.

Any convictions of a misdemeanor carry a 24-hour mandatory minimum jail sentence and a mandatory minimum fine of $250.

For any subsequent convictions the possible prison sentence doubles.

For drug offense convictions of juveniles, the offender's driver's license is suspended for one year.
http://www.norml.com/index.cfm?wtm_view=&Group_ID=4571

Peace.

[Union Thug]

6. Glad Kirkland's Finest are making themselves useful..

Almost as useful as the Redmond cop shop, or the Medina cop shop. After all, when you patrol the mean streets of the eastside, you gotta find something to keep you busy. I guess harrassing teens is as good as anything else.

on edit: for those not familiar with the Seattle area, Kirkland, Redmond and Medina are part of the suburbs known collectively as "the Eastside" - a reference to their location on the east side of Lake Washington, Seattle being on the west side of the lake.

The Eastside is typically populated by upper income professionals. As an extreme example, Bill Gates lives on the fabled "eastside". ;-)

[craychek]

7. Pot shouldn't even be illegal

I mean ALCOHOL is legal and you can OD on that in a heart beat. One night of binge drinking is all you need. So far, there is only ONE suspected case of Pot OD. That was in britian. A guy had been smoking high grade pot six times a day, everyday, for 10 years.

pot may get you high but it isn't leathal in the short term like every other recreational substance, including alcohol. If I had a choice of what to legalize it would be pot face down. You could even eliminate the carcinogenic effect by ingesting it...

man, this war on drugs is a joke anyways.

[Union Thug]

10. What Craychek said. YES! n/t

[maxsolomon]

19. but it is illegal, and will be for the rest of our lives

there is no way that the type of people who become politicians will ever back off the war on drugs. america is not a mature enough place to come to the conclusion that it was ever wrong. how alcohol prohibition ended i have no idea.

to acknowledge the legitimacy of pleasure, even when achieved through mind alteration, goes against our puritan heritage.

[Fridays Child]

8. Around here, they'll arrest the parents of kids who smoke...

...if they have evidence that the parents allow or encourage the smoking. I shudder to think what would happen, if the cops who harassed your daughter were aware of your progressive attitude--which I don't disagree with, by the way.

[Old Vet]

9. As a father of 3 and been there done it, Those days are over.......

Those days of cops slapping you in the head and telling you to go on your way are history. Now cops are zero tolerance with this drug scene, And think that busting kids with a joint is a public service. Ive told my kids a little about my in-discretions as a teen ager, But would never condone drug-use these days. Call me a hypocrite, Its not true that all kids are gonna be around drugs and should be condoned in small amounts. So my point is that I disagree with this idea you have, And Iam still a cool dad without letting my kids puff a joint now and then.

[maxsolomon]

16. abstinence is not realistic.

all kids are going to be around pot unless you homeschool them or send them to military academies. i have tried to emphasize that we live in a police state, and even bending the rules a little bit around a cop could result in being raped in prison.

Seattle recently passed an initiative stating that marijuana enforcement should be the lowest priority of the SPD. the city has not collapsed since its implementation. the police at the UW, for instance, just confiscate the dope, write down names, and send the kids on their way.

[tx_dem41]

21. Respectfully, abstinence is realistic...

with the right type of parenting.

[maxsolomon]

23. so what did your parents do wrong?

what did mine?

perhaps i should say: DEMANDING abstinence is not realistic.

she's not dating or having sex, so we must be doing some part of parenting right.

[K-W]

25. That is rediculous.

There is no such thing as a perfect strategy to produce abstinence. Not even close. Getting your kids to remain abstinent is a great goal, but not something that can ever be garunteed.

[tx_dem41]

26. Can you point out where I said it was a perfect strategy?

Or even one that could be successfully applied generally? I said it IS realistic given the right parenting. That's all. Since I lived that situation, that makes it a realistic possibility.

[maxsolomon]

28. now you're backpedaling

if it can't be applied generally, and it is the result of "right parenting", then most parents are therefore "wrong parenting".

and how do you know that your 3 never emulated your youthful indescretions? they could have simply lied to you, which is what you're asking for by requiring drug abstinence.

whereas my stepkids tell me what happened, and what really happened at school to kids that have gotten in trouble, because they know we've got their back. other parents at her school do NOT know the truth.

[tx_dem41]

29. I have no "3"....I'm talking about...

myself and my parents. I am fully aware of what I did and did not do. And, yes, I do believe what they did was "right", since I can proudly say that I am not an "inveterate" drug user.

Can it work for everyone. I'm NOT saying that, nor did I ever say that.

[maxsolomon]

32. my bad. got you confused with Old Vet's post.

so if you have no kids, and your parents' parenting resulted in you never having done drugs (how's that life without alcohol, aspirin, antihistamine, tylenol, advil, claritin, antibiotics, etc., working out for you? they are all drugs, and as has been shown with prohibition, legality or illegality is arbitrary & capricious), i have a question for you:

WHY ARE YOU IN THIS FORUM, LET ALONE THIS THREAD?

[K-W]

30. Possibility, of course. But there are other possibilities.

You cannot with any certaintity garauntee that by parenting in a certain way you can keep a child from experimenting with something.

Since I lived that situation, that makes it a realistic possibility.

Right, a possibility. It is a realistic possibility, but it is not a realistic to assume it will happen.

[mattclearing]

11. Solid common sense advice.

If people are going to break the law (as unnecessary and silly as this one is), they should at least do it in an informed and responsible way.

[Tace]

12. Be Careful At Raves, Too

Here's a link to a video shot of a storm-trooper bust at a rave in Utah this summer. It's two-minutes long.

http://worldnewstrust.org/modules/AMS/article.php?storyid=1079

[PerpetualWinter]

38. Yeah, that area is notorious for...

their sheriff being vicious. My biggest problem with that whole thing was they were sorta warned not to do it, and they still did. Now don't get me wrong, I don't think the cops should have raided it, especially not in that fashion. However, out there you know you are rolling the dice.

Fortunately this is the exception, not the norm.

[enough]

15. Right.

[Tace]

17. In Aldoux Huxley's Utopian Novel "Island," They Turn The Kids On At 13

and it wasn't pot, but "moshka medicine." Island was Huxley's last novel, I believe. He was quite the raging acid head by then.

However, Huxley was very different than Timothy Leary or Ken Kesey, who believed in turning on the masses indiscriminately. Huxley believed that entheogens were a sacrament, and should be treated that way. : )

[SteppingRazor]

31. Wholeheartedly agree...

While you should tell your kids not to do it in the first place, it doesn't make sense not to tell them what to do "if."

If your end result is to keep your children safe and out of prison, then telling them what to say to cops, not to carry paraphernalia around, etc. should be just as important as telling them not to do it in the first place.

By the way, the "intent to distribute" will almost certainly be knocked down to possession, since it's less than 40g. Here's Washington's state laws regarding marijuana:

"Possession of less than 40 grams is punishable by up to 90 days in jail and a fine up to $1,000. For amounts of 40 grams or more the penalties increase to up to five years in prison and a fine up to $10,000.
Cultivation, delivery or sale of marijuana is punishable by up to five years in prison and a fine up to $10,000. Any sale to a minor at least three years younger than the offender doubles the possible penalties.
It is an affirmative defense to violations of marijuana-related laws that the person, possessing no more than is necessary for personal medical use for up to sixty days, has valid documentation and meets all criteria as a qualifying patient or as a primary caregiver.
Possession, manufacture or delivery of paraphernalia is punishable by up to 90 days in jail and a fine up to $1,000.
Any convictions of a misdemeanor carry a 24-hour mandatory minimum jail sentence and a mandatory minimum fine of $250.
For any subsequent convictions the possible prison sentence doubles."


And here's NORML's state-by-state marijuana laws page. A great reference:
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4516

[maxsolomon]

33. why should you tell them NOT to do it?

simply because its illegal?

especially if you did it, and enjoyed it? i'm not talking about meth, crack, smack, mescaline, etc. i'm talking alcohol, pot, mushrooms, but with an emphasis on moderation, maintaining the intellect, & controlled settings. why should they have to bear guilt & shame for doing what humans have done since they figured out how to do it?

is sauce for the goose not sauce for the gander?

[SteppingRazor]

34. Because...

alcohol kills, pot'll give you lung cancer, and mushrooms cause convultions.

Look, I've done all three -- and much, much more -- but I'm not going to try to make the case that any of this is healthy. It's not. But then again, "fun" and "healthy" are rarely the same thing.

[maxsolomon]

35. what i'm getting at is this

you don't need to tell them it's not healthy. the scare tactics used on them at school do that. what they see is adults drinking responsibly, and they know is that it is fun, and that millions before them have done it, yet they are penalized more heavily than any generation previously. they know this is arbitrary & unfair.

saying "don't do as i do, do as i say" just sets up the "forbidden fruit" scenario again. when you oppress & shame you cause what you fear.

kids are not dumb, they see through BS in a flash.

[SteppingRazor]

39. All of that, I absolutely agree with.

Just pointing out that the ups and downs of any drug should be discussed -- in other words, just tell the truth.

I suppose for a lot of people, that's shocking advice, despite its simplicity.

[Mythsaje]

44. In sequence...

Alcohol does kill, especially people who have never learned to drink responsibly.

There's no credible evidence that pot causes lung cancer. Quite the contrary, actually.

And I've never seen anyone go into convulsions from mushrooms. I ODed once myself, which just gave me the overwhelming urge to throw up (which didn't happen) and a really miserable trip.

[Lefty48197]

40. Thus the concept of "the travel bag"

that is, taking a little bit out of your main bag, and putting it in another bag to carry to your private events.

[Solve_et_Coagula]

41. Drug Addiction a Disease of the Soul

Drug Addiction a Disease of the Soul

« By convincing human beings that there is no God, no Providence, no Heaven and no hope of life after death, materialistic thinkers have robbed them of the one reality that gives meaning to human existence: the reality of the soul and spirit. They proclaim that religion is 'the opium of the people' and that man can be perfectly happy as long as he has sufficient food, a roof over his head and the chance to study and to raise a family. But is this born out by what we see in reality?

No; even when a man's physical body, heart and intellect have everything they could possibly ask for, he is not necessarily happy or satisfied; we see evidence of this every day. And why is he not satisfied? Because he has neglected to nourish his soul and spirit and they are still hungry and thirsty.

And this is why the increasing use of drugs, especially by the young, is a warning. It is a sign that the soul is trying to make its needs understood: men's souls are being stifled and the use of drugs is an attempt to find release. We have been told that mankind had to reject the opium of religion, but are we any better off with marijuana, heroin and cocaine?

The soul needs infinite space; when it is hemmed in it suffocates and is ready to grasp at any means in order to free itself, and alcohol and drugs are amongst those means because they have the property of detaching the soul from the physical body and giving it, if only for a few moments, the illusion of freedom and space, Young people take drugs because they don't know how else to satisfy their soul's need for freedom. But this is no solution, for a drug is simply a chemical element administered to the body, and it is not the body that is clamouring for freedom, but the soul. The use of drugs is an indication, therefore, but it is not the solution. Not only are drugs incapable of satisfying the needs of the soul but they destroy the body. This is why I say that no one should ever use them on any pretext whatever. joy, freedom, fulfilment and the expansion of the soul must be sought by spiritual means.

A true adept of Initiatic Science never relies on external means; he knows that God has given him all the powers, gifts and chemical substances he needs; they are all within him, and he only has to find them there. Of course, this is not something that can be done in a day, it takes time and effort, but it is well worth it. When you find your nourishment in the sublime regions of the soul and spirit your hunger is satisfied for days and days, for the elements of the divine world are so rich that one taste is enough to give you a sense of abundance and fulfilment that will stay with you always. Nothing can take away from you this sensation of immensity and eternity. »

Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov

[K-W]

42. Science bashing and absurd mystical theories about drug use.

I'm convinced.

[Mythsaje]

43. A great explanation of why I never got busted...

That, and the occasional bit of luck when I did something I knew I shouldn't.