Lower the legal drinking age?

[redsoxliberal]

Poll question: Lower the legal drinking age?

My position is that we should not have a drinking age, or have a lower one and not care about it. Europe is much healthier and has much less binge drinking.

[musette_sf]

1. When I was 18 in NYC (1971)

they lowered the voting age to 18 because you could drink, marry, and serve in the military at 18, so it seemed kind of silly that you couldn't vote. So I had the pleasure on my birthday week of my first (legal hahahahaha) drink and my first vote (for McGovern).

The drinking age of 21 is ludicrous, and I think it leads to binge drinking and other unhealthy underage booze-related experiments.

[Left Is Write]

20. Maybe...

instead of lowering the drinking age to 18, they should raise the age of majority for everything to 21. ;)

I think part of the problem with a drinking age of 18 is that some 18-year-olds are still in high school. In the 70s in my city when the drinking age was still 18, kids would leave school at lunch, go to the nearby bowling alley bar, and get shit-faced. Some wouldn't return to school, some would go back to school drunk. I think that probably also makes it easier for other high school kids to get alcohol if they have classmates old enough to buy.

There used to be all sorts of different laws over the years in different places. Some places you could buy beer or wine at 18, but no hard liquor until 21. When my parents got married in 1959, they were both 20. My mother did not have to have permission to get married, but my father had to get a note from his folks! You see, girls could get married at 18, but boys had to be 21. Odd, eh?

I got legal to drink at age 19 in June of 1985 in Minnesota. 15 months later, in September of 1986, the drinking age was raised to 21. All those who had already gained the right to drink but who were not yet 21 (like me) were grandfathered in and allowed to keep the right.

[musette_sf]

24. Glad to hear you were...

Old Grandad-ed in. ;-)

Raising the legal drinking age to 21, back in the 80s, was tied to federal funds for highways. I personally think that 18 is the right age to become an adult. You're young enough to get a few chances at trying out who/what you are/will be. Trust me when I say that you'll need a few cocktails while taking these chances.

[Left Is Write]

26. Welllll....

I disagree that anyone "needs" a few cocktails while trying out who and what they are, but that's a discussion for another time.

The whole federal highway funds issue was a Reagan thing. Minnesota was one of the later states as far as holding out on raising the drinking age. It was governmental blackmail if you ask me.

[musette_sf]

27. Oops...

was in Ultra Lounge mode. Cocktails are of course optional. But I see life, and reveling in ironic commentary onit, as being unto the Algonquin Room tradition. Which most sensible young people of 18 on up are welcome to experience.

Whatever gets you through the night. Or something. :hippie:

[legalcoffee]

40. 20

You've most definately finished high school and you should be ready to embark on college or the work force.

Military and Drinking age should be moved! *I'm 21.

[newyawker99]

52. Hi legalcoffee!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Odin2005]

55. It was federal blackmail, oure and simple.

Such co-ercive tactics should be illegal, it violates the whole point of federalism.

[benevolent dictator]

49. "Some 18 year olds are still in high school...

...so it makes it easier for other kids to get alcohol." Is not a reason to say that 18 year olds shouldn't be allowed to drink. My sister is 6 years younger than me, but people would ask us all the time if we were twins. Should 21 year olds with younger siblings who look like them not be allowed to drink because the younger sibling might steal their ID and buy booze for their friends?

I think 18 is a good age for kids to become "adults." What's the point of making it 21? Hell, let's just make it 30 why don't we?

If 18 year olds are(were) leaving campus to go drink and then coming back to school drunk/skipping the second half of the day, they should be held responsible for that. Just like they should be held responsible if they're sneaking off at lunch to go smoke joints and come back high. Besides, it being illegal isn't going to stop the kids who are so hell-bent on getting hammered that they leave in the middle of the day and don't come back, those people just bring it to school. (In 9th grade my best friend sat next to a girl in English who used to bring Jack Daniels in a sprite bottle and drink it during class.)

[Mnemosyne]

56. If you can die in a war you should be able

to drink a beer. Limit the alcohol content. It seems I saw that done somewhere for under 21 drinkers.

[Turtlebah]

66. I totally agree!

and I don't drink anymore, but I think if you're old enough to die in a war, you're mature enough to drink alcohol.

[unpossibles]

74. I hate to break it to you

but when I was in high school, it didn't matter if you weren't old enough. Some people still found a way to get booze, and some people still got drunk.

In fact, I drank a LOT more before I was 21 for a variety of reasons.

[ET Awful]

2. Well, one thing that always pissed me off when I was in the Army

was that I was old enough to get my ass blown off, but not to buy a beer. I was old enough to make the commitment to serve my country, but not to go to a bar.

That said .. . . I was a dumb kid, what did I know? :) :) :)

[vitointn]

34. Pissed Off

Heartily agree with you ET.

I joined the Army 1 week after turning 17 in 1977.

I too found it ironic that I could give my life for my country if need be, but couldn't buy a beer (though I never had any problems in NYC buying beer).

I wouldn't call myself a 'dumb kid' because I had worked two jobs for a year prior to joining and had saved up $3500.

There are no easy solutions, but if we're willing to send our young to foreign shores, then the minimum military age should be raised to 21 years old...since society and our legislators think that is the age of maturity. But that's just MHO.

[newyawker99]

53. Hi vitointn!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Mnemosyne]

57. Welcome vitointn! I just posted up-thread

the same thing. If you can go to war you should be able to have a beer.

And I agree, if not lower the age than raise the military minimum. Good idea.

:hi:

[Mom_and_Dad]

3. If you are expected/made to die for your country

at 18 then you definately should be able to drink

[Journeyman]

16. You can. . .

When I entered the service, at 18, I could drink beer on the base. I don't know what would have happened had I gotten drunk and been arrested off-base, but on base I could drink all the 3.2 beer I wanted. There were converted cola machines in the dorms, too, that dispensed cans of beer.

Edited to add, this was back in the early '70s. Don't know what the rules and regulations are these days. Left the service decades ago, stopped drinking about 20 years back.

[NCN007]

38. Guess I joined in the wrong decade n/t

[Mnemosyne]

58. Welcome to DU Mom_and_Dad! Agree! n/t

:hi:

[Walt Starr]

4. Lower it to 18, 17 if you have a signed waiver from your parent

You are currently old enough to join the military at age 18. If you can sign a contract to be a hired killer, you should be able to drink a beer.

You can currently sign that contract at age 17 if a parent signs a waiver, so if a parent signs a waiver at age 17, you should be able to drink a beer.

[charliebrown]

15. You can also hide behind your Mamas skirt.

You then at age 12 or 16 are old enough to face a death penalty, correct? Old enough to raise your own child, correct? Old enough to accept responsabilty for whatever you do?

LOL Walts World....and its not Disney....:puke:

[Dem_Loyalist]

25. You mean Wally World

lol

[Mnemosyne]

60. Mickey? Is that you? Hey, where'd ya' go?

[Left Is Write]

18. A 17-year-old CAN drink a beer, as far as I know...

...at home, with his parents' permission.

When I was underage (I became legal at 19, in Minnesota in 1985), it was perfectly legal for a parent to give his or her own child alcohol in his or her own home. I have no idea if that has changed or not.

[redsoxliberal]

19. I drink cognac and brandy (I'm an elitist) all the time (I'm also 15)

[Walt Starr]

28. In nearly all states, that would be illegal

"Contributing to the delinquency of a minor"

[Left Is Write]

29. No, that's not true.

It would be illegal to give or serve alcohol to a minor OTHER THAN your own child, but it would not be illegal to serve alcohol to your OWN child in your own home. (Or your own spouse, if your spouse is under 21.)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. What If Someone Got Their Kid Drunk And Sent Him To School?

eom

[NobleCynic]

48. Parents giving their kids booze is most certainly legal

You can't prohibit parents from giving their kids alcohol, under current law it is allowed. Even if you tried to prohibit it, freedom of religion would block it. At bare minimum, I know that alcohol is involved with both catholic and hebrew sacraments.

And if you sent your kid to school drunk, he would still be arrested for public drunkeness even if the underage drinking charge didn't stick. You're allowed to give your kid alcohol, but not allowed to loose him on the world drunk as an Irishman. (Yes I'm Irish!)

[newyawker99]

54. Hi NobleCynic!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[maxsolomon]

61. what if your aunt had balls?

in a country where alcohol is not forbidden fruit, such an incident would be statistically insignificant.

[Mnemosyne]

59. Getting a bit redundant in your old

posting, huh Walt?

Just ragging ya'!

Peace,
V

[JohnKleeb]

5. lower it to 17 and 3 months

ha, but practically 18 would be best.

[dolo amber]

6. At 18, you can kill or die

for your country, but you can't buy beer...

:wtf:

[recoveringrepublican]

31. Exactly, so we should raise the enlistment age

Young kids would have more time to think about putting their lives on the line.

[redsoxliberal]

7. 18, people? NO DRINKING AGE!

[redsoxliberal]

8. who voted for prohibition???

[Turtlebah]

67. There must be a Repug among us! n/t

[m_welby]

9. having teenagers around my house

often not my own, I tend to be strict on alcohol consumption. No one under age can drink because ultimately its my responsibility. There is one exception, that's my nephew whose in the guard and intermittantly comes home from serving near iraq. If he can serve he can be served.

I turned 18 the year they raised the drining age and every summer for 3 years the drinking age went up and I wasn't legal until my birthday. It made it very clear to me how stupid prohibition is.

[rogerashton]

10. Raise it to 55.

Kidding. Mostly. When I was young it was 18 in the places I lived and it worked better. Hanging around college campuses, the 21 age doesn't stop students from drinking, but channels it in antisocial directions, in my opinion.

So 18, as the age of responsibility, but no lower limit with the parent's permission.

[baldguy]

11. I could drink at 18

And I did MANY STUPID THINGS. Drunk driving was the LEAST of it. Alcohol & college don't mix.

[The Right Hand]

12. 18, perhaps with a restriction...

Tennessee was one of the first states to go to 21, at the behest of MADD.

When they went to 21, the law had a very logical stipulation:

Anyone in the armed forces, of any age, may drink with military ID.

"Old enough to die for your country, old enough to buy a beer."

Somewhere along the way (I don't know when), this provision got taken out. I think that's a cryin' shame.

[Astrochimp]

13. 18 IF a HS grad or have a full time job.

I got to buy at 18 (kansas while living in Mo.) 19 AZ, and then moved back to Mo, and had to wait (HA!) till I was 21.


David

[TwilightZone]

14. Binge drinking has very little to do with legal drinking age.

And I doubt that it would change much if the drinking age were lowered. It's a part of our society, sad to say.

Binge drinking isn't the biggest problem anyway. Drinking and driving is.

Would teenage drinking and driving go up if the legal drinking age were lowered? I'm sure that's one of the main arguments of those supporting leaving it at 21.

[hexola]

17. Thanks for this poll...in the days following our defeat...

This is one of the issues that I couldn't get off my mind...

It's like a coporate pressure that has created this artificially prolonged adolecence.

Corpoations have balls...

Pretty soon it will be illegal to not let your children watch TV...

[JohnKleeb]

21. mmmmmmmmm booooooze

[redsoxliberal]

22. red stripe

is beer








hOOOOOOOOOOOOOraaaaaaaaaay BEER!

[MayJuly4]

23. Raise the drinking age....

When you realize that drinking is only a temporary escape from reality you'll stop drinking to excess.

Then, and only then - should you be able to drink legally.

[realisticphish]

30. how will THAT help

raising the drinking age only means that people will have to find older friends to buy stuff for them. trust me, a legal limit means jack squat in college


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[NCN007]

39. For the same reason

Lower the drinking age, or better yet, abolish it completely. Most kids learn at a young age that eating a quart of rocky road ice cream, as appealing as the thought may be, has some nasty consequences. Its about learning responsiblity at a young age. At the same time though, DUI laws should be tougher.

[anewdeal]

69. 18

the government should not be able to tell any adult what to do with their own body

[renaissanceguy]

32. What about Europe....

They really don't have drinking laws in most countries, and consequentially, there isn't that much a problem with teens abusing it....because the stigma/rebellion isn't there anymore. True, if we abolished the drinking age, there would be chaos in the short term, BUT...in the long run, it would help.

I think we need to enforce zero-tolerance DWI/DUI laws, instead, as it doesn't matter what age you are---if you drink and drive, it's equally dangerous.

[Columbia]

45. Precisely

Eliminate the drinking age altogether.

[Krs216]

33. If your old enough to serve in the military

your damn sure old enough to drink a beer.

[SweetLeftFoot]

35. I always laugh

At those ridiculous American shows like Beverely Hills 90210 where actors who are about 29 play 18 year olds who are always whining about the need for fake ID.

[BBradley]

36. All the drinking age does is make illegal behavior that is occurring

Make it 18. It's a reasonable age.

[SweetLeftFoot]

37. 18

is very much a guideline rather than a law in Australia. Sure, clubs will ID but many pubs and bottle shops won't. Ireland is even better - especially outside Dublin.

[methinks2]

42. 18

That's what it was when I turned 18. At 18 you're old enough to die for your country. You should be able to toss back a shot before you die.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Freebird12004]

44. it was legal to drink at 18

when I was growing up in Georgia

[camaro3232]

46. There is no drinking age

Well legally there is but when I was in High School noone had problems getting beer or anything. It really doesnt matter. Just hard for underage people to get into bars.

[maxsolomon]

47. freedom should be free

there is no rinking age in our house, and we have raised 2 responsible drinkers, 16 & 18. they don't WANT to get drunk, and are AFRAID to drink & drive. and their parents are dope smoking chardonnay swilling hippies, but we have taught the virtues of MODERATION.

raise the driving age.

[suneel112]

50. Moderation...

...is probably the best virtue for all drugs. It is also best learned from parents.

[ProgressAlwaysWins]

51. No drinking age

No drinking age.

In Italy, they let the kids drink wine at the table, and teach them how to drink responsibly. You know what the percentage of drunk drivers in Italy is? Among the lowest in the world. You know what it is in the US? Among the highest in the world.

Sorry, can't vote because I'm newly registered, but that's my opinion.

[meow2u3]

62. Make it 20

A nice round number. 20-year-olds are no longer teenagers, but not yet adults in terms of being able to drink.

[Popol Vuh]

63. Isn't it ironic

That when you turn 18 years old: The government says that you are now old enough to be a responsible adult.

• You are responsible enough to join the military without parental consent
  
• You are responsible enough to join the adult work force and do dangerous jobs
  
• You are responsible enough to be treated as an adult in a court of law
  
• You are responsible enough to buy a rifle or shotgun
  
• You are responsible enough to get married and make babies
  
• You are responsible enough to get an unrestricted driver's license and drive a two and a half thousand pound bullet

However: The very same government turns around and tells that 'responsible' adult.

• Sorry kid you're not old enough to buy liquor, that's only for adults
  
• Sorry kid you're not old enough to gamble, that's only for adults
  
• Sorry kid you're not old enough to buy a handgun, that's only for adults

:shrug:

[One Sweet World]

75. a little too ironic don't you think

Popol Vuh,

You hit the nail on the head. We are accountable and do all those things when we turn 18. It is a right of passage yet we cannot afford to grant trust in 18 year olds to handle alcohol. Our society has deemed drinking a bad thing so, of course, kids are going to do what society doesn't allow them to do.

If we mirrored Europe's attitude toward drinking, we would be better off as a whole and with healthier hearts to boot.

[lies and propaganda]

64. i agree with 21, UNLESS...

they are serving in the military.

If you can die you can damn sure have a cocktail.

[NTL714]

65. makes sense to me

I don't just say that because I have yet to turn 21 either. We all know that alcohol is not really the hardest thing to get no matter what the age. My idea is that if we can decide to die for our country and decide who runs it, why can't we decide what to put in our own bodies?

[Turtlebah]

68. DEA boss wants to bring back Prohibition

for alcohol http://www.regulatemarijuana.org/home/node/302

then the war on drugs will be all out war, if she succeeds in that! What a wench she is!

[afrosia]

70. Ban alcohol!!!

Haha, made you look!

I appreciate that this might not go down well, but here goes:

In my life I've sampled many little 'fruits' including (but not limited too): cocaine, ecstasy, cannabis, alcohol, mushrooms, speed, ephedra, mescaline etc. Not because I thought it was big or cool, but because I was genuinely interested in seeing how each one goes to work on my mind and CNS. Many of them I have done without even telling my friends.

Anyway I digress; the only one of all of these substances that has made me act in a negative way is alcohol (and mushrooms if I'm to be completely honest - BAD TRIP, argh!). Alcohol has been responsible every time my friends or I have been arrested. I have never been busted for stoned and disorderly, or tripping and disorderly; nor have I ever put scratches down all my neighbours' cars (because they shouldn't have parked in my way apparently) under the influence of anything other than alcohol.

I once drank alcohol pretty much every day for 2 years (I actually drank to counter the Ritalin which wouldn't let me sleep) and I failed my degree as a result, I took the same exams 2 years later (having exchanged my daily drink for a daily toke) and passed with A's all round, coincidence? You decide.

Of course these experiences are my own and cannot be applied to everyone, but I have to say that alcohol has (on many occasions) turned me into an absolute idiot. There is also the health issue, which I have to say does seem to favor many of the illicit substances rather than alcohol; that's another story mind you...

P.S. I am aware that prohibition of alcohol won't work, I am merely trying to make a point.

[creeker]

71. I hire a bunch of country kids for farm work and drink is not hard to get

for them--

[omenapoint]

72. Age of Majority should be it.

If they can sign a contract, join the army, or get a mortgage, then they should be able to get soused.

[Oleg Volk]

73. Parental supervisionis the key

Having seen 3-4yo kids get diluted table wine in places like Italy (where I did not observe much drunkenness at all), I'd think that having them learn to handle alcohol or to avoid it by informed choice would be the best policy. As a non-drinker, I still wish to avoid unnecessary state involvement in private lives -- and laws on what one can eat or drink are pretty intrusive!

[Jamastiene]

76. Remove the taboo and encourage

responsible drinking. I say no age limit. Other countries don't have an age limit and they don't have the same kind of heavy drinking problems we have with young people. In Charlotte, at least, they have a real problem with teenagers drinking and then driving the wrong way on the interstate. I don't know if the alcohol is totally to blame, but I think the out of control nature of drinking and driving comes from the taboo. I don't know how. I just think it does.



Drink responsibly: If you are gonna drink, don't fall down. If you fall down, get back up. :P

[TransitJohn]

77. One age for everything--18

Including driving, voting, entering legal contracts, renting cars, taking out credit....everything.