What would a drugs legallized society be like?

[sweetheart]

Some people say, that if cannabis were legallized,
that everyone would just sit around stoned all the time,
where drugs are available at the corner shops like candies
and children of young ages go and eat heroin and opium
candies sold by major corporations to get them addicted?

What is your image of an end to the drugs war and prohibition?
Is it really a world of drugged permissiveness as the right
wing projects when their drugs-war orthodoxy is shaken, or
is it a world of diminished net-drugs use, where a child
is less likely to be exposed to drugs underage. How does
the civil need to have liberty in consuming whatever drugs one chooses,
weighted against the concern of making sure that we don't
sell our children our vices.

I've been asked to paint a picture of our society in future
of a time when the drugs war is ended, and i realize that
that image is very sparse and undeveloped... like the iraq war,
drugs reform must have a plan for what happens "after" victory.
What is that plan?

[Drum]

1. Dangerous,

particularly where vehicles are concerned.

I'm for the de-criminalization of cannabis. However, I think that with other substances---more powerful and distorting ones---legalized it might be more dangerous to be a pedestrian or motorist.

[ret5hd]

3. And in what way would they be more dangerous than alcohol?

Not that that isn't dangerous...but we know how to solve that problem...we just choose not to. proper enforcement of existing laws is sufficient.

[catzies]

6. They can test you for alcohol when they pull you over. Not until there's

a scale of escalating cannabis intoxication, and a device for determining whatever that is, can they possibly begin to decriminalize it.

[High Plains]

14. How about proving actual impairment?

You know, can the driver close his eyes and touch his finger to his nose? Can he walk a straight line? Etc.

[catzies]

17. Right, exactly. The decrim. conversation can't go forward until that

question is answered.

[K-W]

20. Use of such drugs is already widespread.

one of the important facts about the drug war is that it doesnt stop people from using drugs.

Our ability to prevent the dangerous scenarios you envision would increase with legalization, because only then can we have the real data, an honest dialogue, and the ability to focus on the real risks of drugs instead of enforcing this prohibition.

[Wilms]

2. Alcohol use and abuse would be diminished.

So would be the over-prescribing of psycho-active pharmaceuticals.

Drugs and marijuana would be heavily taxed, still be cheaper and fund rehab programs.

There'd be a savings from the end of "War on Drugs".

The environment would benefit as illegal farms (in sensitive areas)give way to legitimate business providing jobs and health care coverage to Americans. Prison guards can get first dibs those jobs.

[Vincardog]

4. Look at the 19'th century everything was legal. Some people lost

their way in the opium houses. Some got twisted up on the Laudanum patent medicines. Most people just went on their way doing the best they could.

Or look to modern day Amsterdam. Open air pot markets and festivals out the a$$. Take the profit out of drugs and no one has a motive to "push' then.

The reason drugs are illegal is because the crooked politicians make so mush money having them be illegal.

[back2basics909]

5. Amsterdam

Amsterdam is full of people trying to push drugs. I have been several times and there are many people trying to sell you drugs on the street, for less than the taxed drugs.

[High Plains]

18. Hard drug sales are illegal in Amsterdam...

...that's why you see all those street dealers.

[nashville_brook]

7. less crime - less gangs - more tax revenue

but my opinion and five bucks will get you a cup of coffee at starbucks.
it's your picture you've been asked to paint. what do you think?

[postulater]

8. It costs five bucks for a cup of coffee at Starbucks?

Guess I'll never go there.

[DemInDistress]

9. I agree with legal weed....

for 200 years Hemp (weed,marijuana) has been a staple of the US economy. Besides the many useful products created from Hemp, there is the added benefit of getting high (albeit a light high)from smoking Hemp. Many
successful people smoked Hemp,George Washington,Ben Franklin,Jefferson,Lincoln the list could be endless.
Back in 1937 Hemp was made illegal by Harry Anslinger at the behest of Hearst,DuPont and JP.Morgan and others.Seems Hemp was a competitor to there products and we know how to undermine competitors,just make things illegal.
As for cocaine,I been there done that.I couldn't imagine any useful purpose(besides dentistry) for legal coke.Cocaine gives the user illusions and visions of grandeur,if it were legal people wouldn't know when to quit,worst still,its highly addictive. Heroin,another vicious drug,was developed after the Civil War,it helped ease the pain from injuries.I see no place for legal heroin besides we have equally good pain meds today.
Speed,(crank) is another vicious stimulant. While you may feel like superman it too,has detrimental effects on the body.Ever notice a strung-out meth head.
Booze,I hate it but they say,"its legal". It too, is a vicious killer when used extensively.If only a person could use these gifts,wisely and in moderation then maybe,they should be legalized. But its' difficult to have just "one snort" or "one drink" or "one shot".
Give me a joint any day and everyday for after 59 years 1 joint of Hemp still does me justice.

[shenmue]

10. Less crime

There are always some people who will abuse drugs. Fact of life. However, legalization would allow home production, which undercuts the dealers and means there must be less reason to fight over how to get it.

Also, there are some people who, believe it or not, won't be interested in drugs even if they are legal. I don't know if we'd ever get to a point where there's 100% usage. The current policies are certainly not stopping anybody from getting drugs right now if they really want them. All it's doing today is creating danger for the police.

A lot of people are in jail just for possession. Maybe a dealer deserves time because he'll shoot to protect his turf, but some loser just buying drugs to get high for the night needs to go to a hospital, not a jail cell. Call me naive if you want but I have to think we'd see at least a drop in the worst of the effects if we can make some of the drugs legal.

[LostInAnomie]

11. The drugs that are around now would become obsolete.

As soon as the pharmaceutical companies are allowed to produce drugs purely for pleasure crack, meth, heroin, etc. will fall by the waste side. They'll be churning out soma in such color and varieties that it will boggle the mind.

The highs will be purer, the addictions will be stronger, and there will be multi-billion dollar market blitzes to make their use socially appealing.

I don't see anything good coming out of legalizing all drugs.

[Warpy]

12. I see it like it was before the drug war started

when opiates were legal and over the counter at any drugstore. The vast majority of people used them very carefully to compensate for a time when dentistry was a dreadful practice and there was no anesthesia for surgery to do things like remove hot gall bladders. Some people ran into trouble with them, but about at the same per capita rate we have today, drug war and all. Most people used them to mask pain so they could stay functional.

I see a world where people who do run into trouble can get a steady supply of a reliable dosage without having to turn to crime to pay black market prices for it.

I see a society where people can treat their own damn pain. People in pain are irritable and depressed at best; with the pain treated, maybe we'd have a more civil society.

I see a society where billions have been freed up by ending the drug war, where other nations are no longer being pushed around in the name of the drug war, and where we can finally afford things like health care including rehab for the few people who run into trouble with all substances, including alcohol.

Mostly, I see a society where government's role is to assure the safety of food and drugs, not to play nanny and legislate the morality of its citizens and not to abolish their constitutionally guaranteed rights in the name of moral purity.

[firefox]

13. There is a cannabis age coming

We have lived in an age of alcohol for the entire history of our country. About the time of the revolution distilling alcohol brought in a whole new wave of problems. For the first time people including children could actually poison themselves at one sitting. It became easier to get shitfaced. The problems associated with alcohol incidents and addictions began a social outcry that would take a hundred years to see a national prohibition that even then only targeted manufacturing and distribution.

Prohibition arose out of real harms suffered by individuals and society. These were real harms and prohibition was really seen as the intellectual answer. Of course when the violence and corruption came the call went out that prohibition was not an answer, but wishful thinking and prohibition ended.

Now just like prohibition sprang out of reality that people live and people see, cannabis is number one because of its own reality. It does not cause cancer, emphysema, mental illness, or birth defects. And even if it were any where near as harmful as alcohol, we should know that Prohibition is not an answer. It is extremely benign and multi-beneficial and that is what makes it number one.

What is coming is a cannabis age. All this demonization will look as silly to society as slavery and denying the women's right to vote is now. People will ask how in the world did they let them ban hemp when it has nothing to do with anything. The future will ask of us, how could we be so crazy.

I have long advocated the term "Schedule One Lie" for the absurd statement of the government in saying cannabis has no medical value. I have reduced a response down to "Cannabis is the greatest medicinal plant in the history of man." And I will again challenge anyone to present their view of what is and would particularly like to have it answered by government.

But one thing I would like to say about the medical value of cannabis is that legal laughing grass or Free Cannabis will be a medicine for society as a whole- that given an open choice between cannabis and alcohol- cannabis will win. It is a truism that the cream will rise to the top and it will happen no matter how the Empire fights it.

My dad died at 47 from alcohol and he was a retired Marine that could have fished his life away instead of turning yellow to die. I have had problems with many people that drink, in family and out of family. I know how different my life would have been had I had the choice of Free Cannabis and alcohol, plus I would not have taken 5 years out of my life to attack the nonsense of Cannabis Prohibition.

There is a cannabis age coming, because people really do care about their health. And people are also beings that have always explored altered states of consciousness and always will be. Somehow we have allowed government to criminalize human nature and that is just not right.

The political process in this country is hurt by the drug warriors being able to call up past use of cannabis against candidates and it keeps many from running for office that really need to be out there calling for change. Think along these lines. How long would the drug war last if the 100 million cannabis users could speak freely without fear of incrimination and could come forward in public to speak? The government does not want that free speech hitting every public square like a bible thumper shouting Jesus.

Cannabis will give appetizers a whole new level. Cannabis will make music in public the enhancement to life that it truly can be. Free Cannabis will change country music. Cannabis will surely change the meaning of Friday nights and when alcohol sales are outlawed after the first quarter at sporting events the greedy bastards will still take in money with happy foods.

People are not continually calling for Free Cannabis because they are being slick. They are calling for a better way that should be obvious to us all with just a little honest talk. I mean if you cannot defend the prohibition of hemp, then how do you let it stand? If you cannot defend the merits of cannabis prohibition then how can you let it stand? And when has the government ever told us how we benefit from prohibition, especially when prohibition isn't doing much prohibiting, and inflicts a huge harm on 2000 people a day with its onerous laws and attacks on unalienable rights and the Constitution and the public treasury? Not only can the government not defend prohibition, they do not even try and do not even use the word prohibition.

Cannabis is #1 for a reason- the cream always rises to the top. You are lucky to have people fighting for Free Cannabis because what they have to beat to fix this huge injustice and assault to reason is a corruption of the entire system. My belief has long been that the error of the Free Cannabis movement has been to try to pull the fingers of the gorilla that holds prohibition in its hand. I say you just have to beat the gorilla with everything you can slam over the head while calling it to let go of its beloved prohibition. And I call for voting against every drug warrior because of the litmus test the drug war and prohibition furnishes us. We are not fighting reason. We employ it. We are fighting corruption that ignores all reason and laughs at the populous for their ineffectual attack on the absurd.

Free Cannabis For Everyone means everyone. Everyone will benefit from the end of Cannabis Prohibition whether you want to or not.

In one word CP lives because of corruption.
In two words CP lives because of controlled media.
In three words CP lives because "It's the money."
In four words CP lives because of "Lies, bullshit, and obfuscation."
In five words CP lives because "We are ruled by treason."

I have been saying that for maybe three years. It comes from having a cannabis perspective, which is really about the only thing positive to be gained out of cannabis prohibition.

If you want to make the world a better place, then Free Cannabis For Everyone.

[filthyrichkleptocrat]

15. Drugs would be much cheaper, more effective, and safer than todays..

Drug regulation is about limiting competition and protecting monopolies.

The cheapest, safest, most effective and most popular drugs are the ones people are imprisoned for selling.

That's so people have no choices other than the ones drug companies can design and patent, and make billions of dollars on.

[sweetheart]

16. On reading these replies....

In marketing, it is common to explain the "value" to each subjective target market.
The value to a person who does not do drugs of ending the WOD, is reduced crime and
the costs of crime on their socety and community, and the reduced possibility that
their child will come to harm through criminality.

But here we are split on 2 songsheets. Some of us see the WHOLE war on drugs as the fraud.
Some of us only focus on cannabis and presume that the WOD would continue as waged on
the rest of the "illegal drugs" spectrum, only saving the cannabis smokers.

How does a legallized market reduce the possibility of children coming in to contact with dangerous drugs?

If you elected me special global representative with powers to reform the world's
drugs laws, i would set an end-date on the drugs war. At that date, all cirminal laws on
drugs would time out, and all persons in prisons for nonviolent drugs posession and trade
would be released.

The Federal Drugs and Food authority of every nation would be given formal authority to control the drugs
trade, labelling of organic and such. More medicinal drugs could be purachased over the counter at an
herbalists or pharmacists. They could be purchased online, or by postal ordering, but NOT SOLD at the
counter. IN this way, the legallization of harder drugs would have users to standing in line with
the pensioners to get their fix. The federal legislation would also be set up for tax stamps on the
new "sins", so the public can get money from each sale of a drug.

This would de-inventory the marketplace, and disrupt the existing supply chain by replacing it entirely
with a vastly more efficient supply chain that beats its competition on price, quality, and legality.
Bootleggers who did not come in from the cold, would go bankrupt, not able to compete. HOw many people
do you know who GROW their own tobacco? Once its legallized, niche growers and the like will mostly
diminishe for the occastional hobby garden grower.

Why would it de-inventory the marketplace? The current generation of drugs users live generally in a world
of scarcity. YOu never know when you'll be able to buy more, so people hoarde drugs for their private
FIX. And maybe, that generation will always hoarde, much like a generation of germans who saw starvation
in WW2 and after, became always a bit heavier than their later generations who never knew such want of
food. When cannabis is available at the chemist, one might purchase just 1 gram of cannabis, something
that is punished by the black market, when each "sale" is a crime, dealers prefer larger amounts, as
do hoarders... but with legallization, the microsales will cause more persons who use lightly to
not keep any around the house.

All nations that legallize the drugs would use the peace-windfall to re-employ their police/prison
in to full public healthcare as a human right for all their people. Then, the intrastructure is there
not only to ask that drugs users of hard drugs get perscriptions from a doctor. This would reduce
AIDS, hep C and other public diseases spreading in our world, something that benefits us all... even prostitution,
is often very tied with drugs, and this would allow lots of sickness to be treated.

I'm worried that just legallizing cannabis is a limited panacea, as the real windfall we want to see
is a strategic end to the drugs war strife worldwide, where the rich world does NOT export its externalities
to the poor world; or at least if it does so, it does so peacefully without a war.

(regarding, traffic stops, test impariment right there and then on video camera.)

One other area, that must be hand in hand with drugs legallization, is youth activities. I would extend the
school day and have a secondary-activity based afternoon curriculum that taught social play, debate, arts,
that the afternoon when parents are at work, is a time when bored teenagers can be their own worst enemies.
Without this, it is difficult to tell a mother that legallization won't actually make it more likely
that their kid will use the drugs, rather than less likely.... and though those mothers are not the core
drivers of drugs legallization, they are part of society who screams bloody murder today, save our babies,
and the mindset of the momma grizzley bear protecting her cubs, must be respected in how we legallize
every person's civil right to imbibe whatever drugs they choose in to their own bodies.

It is getting to this increasingly, where in discussing this topic, i find that people
really ARE ready to consider ending the drugs war, and then it is our obligation to
create a future dream of that event, as a safe, healthy and very beneficial social
transition, cuz they'll blame us for everything that goes wrong afterwards, for then
our "theories" will be in the streets.

[filthyrichkleptocrat]

19. The most powerful opposition to drug war reform is not the people

What makes drug war reform the surest suicide pill of American politics is the enormous political muscle of local, state, and government employee unions. Almost half of all government employees in the USA are directly involved in the drug war.

Can you imagine what kind of funding would be available to end the carreer of any politician dumb enough to say he would eliminate half of all government jobs, and would end the licensed monopolies granting to physicians, pharmacists, and drug companys the exclusive rights to practice medicine and healthcare?

[Franknable]

23. Excellent insight. EOM

nt

[Jed Dilligan]

21. Not all drugs need to have equally legal status.

Let's fantasize for a minute about the ideal situation. My ideal:

It is illegal to sell alcohol except in the pub where it is made.

It is illegal to sell marijuana unless you grew it yourself.

Tobacco, cocaine, meth, and heroin are strictly illegal to sell, but the government distributes them to addicts for free.

:evilgrin:

[Jamastiene]

22. If mj was legalized, it would be peaceful for the most part.

It would mellow a lot of people out. I'm just saying...:shrug:

[TheGriz]

24. Pretty good!

Ok, heres how I see a society without a "War on Drugs."

Benefits to drug users:

1. Drugs would be pure and due to clear understanding of content and dosage, ODs would be waaay down.
2. Drugs would be sold in a store. Safer than the crook on the street corner.
3. Drug users would function better in society because they wouldn't have criminal records or have to worry about getting one (provided they are responsible.)

Benefits to everyone else:

1. Possession and trafficking are no longer crimes, meaning prisons aren't choked up
2. Violent crime associated with gangs largely disappears - they no longer have anything to fight over
3. Pushers have to go and get real jobs
4. Drug sales benefit the economy, open up a whole new market
5. We stop lying to ourselves - if you've ever tried pot or whatever, you're a crook. Thats not right.

What those benefits actually mean:

1. Gun control seen for what it is (sham) because there is so little violence to use as an excuse
2. Pharmacutical companies will start to create and sell psychodelics
3. Whole new businesses and companies, competing brand names
4. We can stop burning Afghani poppy fields
5. Big government gets a big kick in the nuts

Myths:

1. Anyone who wants drugs now can and does get them
2. Anyone who would drive high, already is
3. Levels of drug use would probably stay about the same.

[bamacrat]

25. If weed were legal the world would be much more calm..

Hard stuff, i.e. Heroin, Meth, Cocaine should stay illegal. but weed is good, much safer than alcohol.

[Tommy Jefferson]

26. Be more humane and less cruel

Which is more cruel and inhumane... allowing genomes that predispose people to chemical addiction to naturally die out, or imprisoning millions of people with such a predisposition, then imprisoning the multi-millions of their off-spring for generations to come?

Anyone who has not spent some time in a jail is not qualified to answer.

[wildbilln864]

27. Wouldn't be a lot different ....

IMO! It's already a druged society. They just only allow you to use their drugs. :shrug: