The price of legalizing pot is too high (LAT op-ed)

[tridim]

Deterrence is preferable to encouraging marijuana use, which would follow alcohol and tobacco in soaring costs to society.

Last month, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger reignited a heated debate when he called for a civilized discussion on the merits of marijuana legalization. Indeed, the governor was responding to new public opinion polls showing greater interest in the policy idea -- and with the mounting problems associated with the drug trade in Mexico and here at home, it is hard to blame anyone for suggesting that we at least consider all potential policy solutions.

One major justification for legalization remains tempting: the money. Unfortunately, however, the financial costs of marijuana legalization would never outweigh its benefits. Yes, the marijuana market seems like an attractive target for taxation -- Abt Associates, a research firm, estimates that the industry is worth roughly $10 billion a year -- and California could certainly use a chunk of that cash to offset its budget woes in the current economic climate.

What is rarely discussed, however, is that the likely increase in marijuana prevalence resulting from legalization would probably increase the already high costs of marijuana use in society. Accidents would increase, healthcare costs would rise and productivity would suffer. Legal alcohol serves as a good example: The $8 billion in tax revenue generated from that widely used drug does little to offset the nearly $200 billion in social costs attributed to its use.

In fact, both of our two already legal drugs -- alcohol and tobacco -- offer chilling illustrations of how an open market fuels greater harms. They are cheap and easy to obtain. Commercialization glamorizes their use and furthers their social acceptance. High profits make aggressive marketing worthwhile for sellers. Addiction is simply the price of doing business.

more drug warrior bullshit here..
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-sabet7-2009jun07,0,6437648.story

The WOD is still a practical solution according to this clown.

[ananda]

1. That should read..

The price of NOT legalizing pot is too high.

[Fovea]

2. Obviously, this author has a personal problem with booze.

And maybe should STFU until he sobers up.

[tridim]

5. He's comparing a known poison (alcohol) to one of the most non-toxic substances on Earth

It's a freaking joke.

Of course millions will read this article this morning and agree with it. After all alcohol must not be that dangerous, because it's legal, but pot? Oh nelly it must be REALLY REALLY bad, because it's illegal. :eyes:

[Cirque du So-What]

3. O horseshit!

If even 1 in 10 alcoholics were able to substitute cannabis use for alcohol consumption, the societal savings would be astronomical.

[juno jones]

16. I knew a kid back in the 90's who got busted for DUI.

He used to complain that because of drug testing, he couldn't smoke pot, which was a release and kept his cravings for alcohol in check, but he could drink as much beer as he liked, provided he didn't drive.

Crazy world.

[notesdev]

4. In some minds...

rampant organized crime is preferable.

[msongs]

6. this viewpoint brought to us by the police/prison/courts industrial jobs welfare program nt

[madrchsod]

7. always check the author of the article

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/01/AR2006120101324.html

http://www.romaninstitute.com/about-us/people

http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/2009/02/17.html


speech writer for the last two drug czars......

[CrownPrinceBandar]

8. Yup............

Objective viewpoint, my ass.

[izquierdista]

9. Excellent piece

I notice that the usual crowd of potheads have all rushed in to defend their precious weed. Heaven forbid that someone criticize their implied right to turn into giggling gluttons from imbibing their sacred plant.

As far as I'm concerned alcohol and tobacco AND marijuana AND cocaine AND methamphetamine become the subject of obsessive compulsive destructive behavior, and their use should be minimized. However, law and social behavior are two different things, and no law yet has cured an addict. If they were ALL legal and ALL heavily taxed, then the tax could start to pay for the negative social effects and get the addict to cure himself.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't like smokers, drunks, stoners, tweekers, glue sniffers, and the like that you can see ruining whole families on A&E's Intervention. But what law and imprisonment has failed to do, maybe taxation and vigorous public health programs can fix.

[tridim]

10. You're lumping in a non-toxic, natural flower with serious chemical drugs

Just like the author did.

Shame on you.

[izquierdista]

11. Go eat some junk food

Like I said, I don't like stoners, just go away, find a 5 pound sack of Doritos, and don't bother me.

[tridim]

13. Not a problem.

I don't like close minded assholes.

[izquierdista]

14. Not my problem

The assholes are the ones that think they need booze, pills, pot and ciggies to make their life worthwhile.

[tridim]

15. So you hate humans?

Humans have been using recreational/medicinal drugs like Cannabis for thousands of years. Maybe, just maybe it's wired into our brains?

Do you like anything? Or are you just one of those people who hates everyone because they don't think exactly like you? Either way, you have a shitty attitude.

[izquierdista]

19. I like the unaddicted

People who can enjoy life, without 'recreational' mind altering substances. And maybe it is wired into YOUR brain, but not mine. As far as I'm concerned, the genes for substance abuse are an evolutionary dead end, and I'd rather wait to be reincarnated until they all die out.

[tridim]

20. Thankfully my drug of choice isn't physcially addictive

I sincerely hope you don't drink coffee or eat sugar, because if so you're a dirty hippy drug addict.

[izquierdista]

21. Keep telling yourself that

You've probably already driven people away from you who tired of your "choice" even though you won't ever realize it.

[tridim]

22. No, my friends are open-minded and tend to believe in personal freedom.

You know, that crazy "liberty" stuff the founding fathers wrote about.

[Taitertots]

27. Is it your choice to be...

sanctimonious and self satisfied.

I'll bet being closed minded and full of yourself has tired more people of you than you will ever realize.

[Stump]

31. Seriously

I'll take hanging out with a pothead over a dickhead any day.

[Flaneur]

33. Yes, please wait to be reincarnated. No argument there.

Sheesh.

[Flaneur]

32. Some people apparently don't need drugs to be assholes.

Just comes naturally, I guess. So let me get this straight (so to speak): You actually think prohibition doesn't work and a public health/prevention approach should be tried instead? Okay, sounds reasonable. But why the need for the gratuitous bashing of people who don't share your abstinence-based approach to life?

[Xicano]

38. "Like I said, I don't like stoners". Are you so sure?

I mean you do realize you probably like several stoners and don't even know it. Cheech & Chong are not the only personification of who stoners are. Not by a long shot.

I am just saying...


:hi:

[Merlot]

18. I don't smoke pot, or drink

Yet I believe we should decriminalize MJ. Money spent on prisons and enforcement would pay for education and addict recovery.

Also, A LOT of people already smoke pot. Your neighbors smoke pot, the guy at the car rental desk, the clerk at the store, the cubical rats...lotsa people smoke pot to cope. The people like me who don't smoke won't start just because it becomes legal.


AGREED:
"But what law and imprisonment has failed to do, maybe taxation and vigorous public health programs can fix."

[clixtox]

25. Another obvious troll, just ignore asshats who are here only to provoke!

They are here only to disrupt and drive reasonable posters away, off DU.

Don't respond, never, never never, once they have exposed themselves.

Just point out that they are what internet savvy folks refer to as "trolls" to warn the unwary and disengage quickly.

Don't look back!

[Taitertots]

26. Because prohibition worked so well last time

Obviously making them illegal is creating crime just like prohibition created crime. If you really cared about the negative effects you would push for marijuana legalization.

[Captain Hilts]

12. It would still be ILLEGAL to drive under the influence or sell to kids. nt

[JonLP24]

37. How would you enforce it?

Realize you can still drink a couple of beers and drive legally. Considering Alcohol causes people to lose their balance, slurred speech, and generally act like an idiot at a much higher rate then Cannabis it would be fair to say at what point in your high can you not drive. Not a single hit you might say? But considering alcohol is much more intoxicating it is not fair.

Also how would determine if someone was currently high? A urine test? Well I could be completely sober and fail a Driving While Drugged test because I smoked yesturday(Hypothitical)

My response would be is gather a team of HONEST researchers and determine how well an experienced, beginner, or first time user reacts when it comes to driving. Also determine what amount is to much and find a way to determine how to test someone that is high at the moment.

I recall whenever we were all drunk, we'd always get the pothead that never drank to drive. No accidents, close calls, or being pulled over by the police ever.

Again a simple drug test does not determine current use and because there is no consensus upon researchers we enact zero tolerance DWD laws.

[angrycarpenter]

17. calling for a civilized discussion

does not mean looking for new angles to continue the war against the hippies. Grouping pot smokers in with hard drug users is the same tired mistake made by those who do not know any better. I do not smoke pot anymore but being put in the same group as crackheads and needle junkies is infuriating, they are two different groups that only mix because pot is illegal. I have never met a pot dealer that did not utterly despise drug addicts.

I was hoping that I would live to see the end of the culture wars that began around the time I was born but it keeps going on and on because people prefer their treasured myths over reality.

[ellisonz]

23. Tool.

[flyboyscotty68]

24. it is amazing

It just floors me that the same old bullshit lies always come out. People have proved all of them to be nothing but bullshit and others try to use them. Jeez how fucking long are we going to have to listen to the same old lies. People just trow out the same old shit and expect it to stick this time. "drugged driving will go up, REALLY, Are you the new god or just a future teller. I love when assholes with no knowledge of marijuana step up and try to Tell the same old lies like they just found out these things. I wish we could have a real discussion without have to start off by dispelling the same old lies. What you couldn't come up with "it's not your daddy's pot", or even better " it's a gateway drug". These same old lies have been dis proven years ago yet , just like the Ratpublicans do, keep saying them, maybe someone will eventually believe them.

[bamacrat]

28. Money is teh double edged sword in this debate.

It would make shit tons of money but it would also shift the shit tons made away from corporations that create pills and other substances from oil which could be done safer and cheaper with hemp. The prison industry wouldnt have all these peaceful hippies to jail. It would also cause us to appear and maybe be more progressive. Imagine it a country in which people are actually free to do what they want as long as it doesnt harm another.

[droidamus2]

29. Sure, right

He states that legalizing pot would increase accidents, health care costs and productivity would suffer but gives no links or backing information. Personal opinion is a nice thing but that is all it is. Has it been proven statistically that people who smoke pot have more accidents? I usually check out any article I see about pot and I have never seen a study that conclusively shows this. You many be able find some studies that say it 'might'. Health care costs? A lot of people in this country and countries like Jamaica have been smoking large amounts of ganja for years. If there where the kind of side effects that would lead to higher health costs you would think it would have become pretty evident by now. Admittedly putting hot smoke in your lungs is probably not the best thing you could do health wise. I guess you could always go with brownies or pot butter. Does pot make people less productive or are the a large number of unproductive people that smoke pot? Since there are highly productive people that also smoke pot I would think the non productivity is more the person than the pot.


The one thing that always gets me with the anti-pot, pro-prohibition crowd is when they bring up the idea that legalizing pot will make it 'much more' available. Where I have lived in California and Vermont if you want pot it doesn't take much to find somebody that will supply it. Yes, legalization will make it a little easier but not by much.

[meow mix]

30. oh ya.. its much better to destroy innocent peoples lives. over a plant

prohibition/war on mj, is oppression of american people.

[phineas1]

34. dope gets you through times of no money

better than money gets you through times of no dope

:rofl:

[Strong Atheist]

35. Welcome to DU!

:toast:


Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers, right?

[JonLP24]

36. He/she lost me when compared to alcohol and tobacco

Very different drugs.

[bamacrat]

39. To us as citizens, people and taxpayers.

Its estimated that through saving from enforcement and sales of pot alone would net 12-18 billion a year. But just imagine the cottage industries that would spring up around it. From hemp along you would get shirts and shoes and accessories, paper etc. THen you would have the apparati industry glass pieces and ornate bongs, custom pieces that are works of art. Jobs, income and tax money is what would be created.

[mmechanic]

40. A rebuttal

Mother Jones blogger Kevin Drum, who has never even smoked pot, concludes legalization is smart:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/07/patriots-guide-legalization

Also, tridim, I'm too new on DU to post threads myself, but I think folks hear might like Mother Jones' new drug policy package, if you'd care to post a thread. (I'm an editor there. Is it obvious?)

Here's a link and quick synopsis:

http://www.motherjones.com/special-reports/2009/07/totally-wasted

War On Drugs: Totally Wasted

Arnold Schwarzenegger says it’s time to consider legalization. Former GOP drug warrior Bob Barr lobbies for the Marijuana Policy Project. The federal drug czar calls for retiring the phrase “war on drugs,” and noted stoner magazines like The Economist and Foreign Policy call for an end of prohibition “at any cost.” There’s a shift in the debate about drug policy, and our July/August issue plumbs the reasons why.

Reason No. 1, of course, is that supply-side interdiction isn’t working—and is now fueling an explosion of violence along the border and the rise of a virtual narcostate in Mexico. In our cover story, Charles Bowden profiles Emilio Gutierrez Soto, a reporter in Sonora who just tried to do his job—and was very nearly assassinated for it. Bowden trails Gutiérrez and his 14-year-old son as they flee for their lives, pursued by a Mexican military so thoroughly corrupt that it is often difficult to distinguish between the soldiers and the drug cartels they are supposedly fighting. In the US, Gutierrez and his son spent time in an immigration prison, and remain in legal limbo; the US has never given asylum to a Mexican journalist—nor, by and large, to any of the police officers, lawyers, and other professionals fleeing the Army-cartel nexus. Washington can’t acknowledge what every Mexican knows: That the more than $1.4 billion in aid we’ve spent to fight the drug cartels is not only wasted, but may well be making the problem worse.

Our War on Drugs cover package also includes an examination of US drug policy by perhaps the only man without a dog in the fight—our political blogger Kevin Drum, who has never inhaled (seriously). Josh Harkinson reports on how the cartels are farming pot in our national parks, and Ben Wallace Wells introduces us to six people—from gangbangers to bureaucrats—who shaped the war on drugs. Plus a map of the cartels’ 259 bases in the US—are they in your city?—, a dispatch on narcocorridos from National Book Award winner William T. Vollmann, and great factoids (Which famous senator got his opiates directly from the FBI?) And finally, MoJo’s editors weigh in to propose a fact-based drug policy, one that puts more money into treatment, makes enforcement fair (no more traffickers rolling on their girlfriends to cut a deal), and acknowledges that marijuana isn’t a gateway drug to anything harder than Doritos. Will Obama go there? It’s too soon to tell. But if the nation was ever ready to start the conversation, now might be the time.