has anyone here ever taken DMT?

[Syrinx]

I never have, but it seems like I might be missing out on something important.

These elves. Could they possibly be something beyond hallucination?

The experiences seem too consistent to be mere figments. Can chemicals like DMT open up worlds or dimensions that we are otherwise blind to?

I've been reading about this stuff, and it blows my mind, and makes me want to try this stuff. Should I?

I would have no idea where to start, but this stuff is fascinating.

[Midnight Rambler]

1. Never tried hallucinogens other than shrooms

However, I heard some audio from a Hunter S. Thompson lecture where he talked about DMT. "Someone described it to me, it's like acid but it's so compressed it's like being shot out of a cannon for fourty-five minutes." Leave it to the Good Doctor :)

[Syrinx]

3. I'm not sure if it's been done yet

But Hunter's funeral plans included his ashes being shot out of a cannon. I believe a lot of the conspiracy theories about the Bush family. But I don't believe the parts about Hunter. Just doesn't fit.

[Journeyman]

2. Aldous Huxley's "The Doors of Perception" is available. . .

for free on the internet. What decision you make about using drugs is yours -- I've made my decisions and live sober today -- but Huxley's short essay illumines many answers for the questions you may be mulling today. It's a great read, too. (And to buff your trivia quotient, it's where Jim Morrison got the name for his band.)

http://www.mescaline.com/huxley.htm

[Syrinx]

4. yeah I knew that about the Doors

And the subject of the Doors, Dr. Humphrey Osmond, the person who made up the word "psychedelic" was for many years, on staff at Bryce Hospital right here in Tuscaloosa, home of the Crimson Tide. Maybe the acid was responsible for the success of Bear Bryant, but I won't swear to it.

[cestpaspossible]

5. DMT

Intensely psychedelic - so much so that you are not conscious of the real world around you. But although mind-blowing, not really mind-expanding like LSD, mushrooms, or mescaline -- just too intense, too overwhelming, and too short lived.

[Syrinx]

6. do you really go into other dimensions

And meet these elf-like creatures? That seems to be the common thread, and what makes it so damn fascinating.

[cestpaspossible]

8. Umm

elf like creatures? That wasn't a joke?

[Syrinx]

17. no joke at all

I know it sounds wild, but everything I've ever read about the subject talks about these creatures. Some call them elves. Others call them aliens. I think that's the most interesting thing about it all.

But since there seems to be no recognition of this idea here, maybe I was snookered by Terrence McKenna and the others I read online. I really have no intention of trying the stuff, I wouldn't know where to begin if I wanted to. It was just this consistent talk of these "beings" that had me so interested in the topic. I do think there is a lot more to the universe than we can know, and perhaps I was being naive in thinking there may be a pharmacological shortcut to wisdom.

I took lsd three times, I think, about 20 years ago. (And one thing about that that makes me think hallucinogens might be more than hallucinogens is the fact that I could see through my skin, I could see the blood flowing through my veins. While many would say this was just a form of synesthesia, I'm convinced it was "more real" than that, if that has any real meaning.) I never did shrooms, and I haven't even smoked weed in going on ten years. Not because I think there's anything wrong with it. It just started making me more paranoid than euphoric.

But the quest for knowledge and understanding will continue.

[Dogmudgeon]

7. DMT is like short-duration Psilocybin

Most people who have used or worked with both agree, DMT is the 20-minute version of Psilocybin. Psilocybin is just DMT with a phosphoric acid ester molecule attached to the #4 position on the indole ring, which allows it to be ingested orally. The sensed presence of "others" occurs with each drug.

So if you've done 'shrooms, you've done DMT.

References: Shulgin's TIHKAL and Strassman's The Spirit Molecule.

--p!

[cestpaspossible]

9. Well

that certainly is not my subjective experience, the chemical similarities notwithstanding. The overwhelming intensity of the hallucinations, visual, auditory, spatial, and temporal, cannot be overstated. You are not getting up from your chair or even really being aware of your surroundings for that 20 minutes, which is really not much like the experience of being high on psilocybin.

[Dogmudgeon]

11. I think that's based on the speed of the experience

The difference between a 20 mg dose of DMT and a 30 mg dose of psilocybin (equipotency: DMT = 1.5 x psilocybin) is primarily that the DMT experience lasts 20 minutes, and the psilocybin experience lasts 3-6 hours. Therefore, one would only get about one-tenth as "tripped out" with psilocybin, but for ten times as long.

The experience of such a quick, intense "trip" is far different from a slower, more controllable one. All the experiences of DMT can be evoked by a suitable dose of psilocybin or magic mushrooms -- but not many people would choose to take 300 mg of psilocybin. That would be about a full ounce of dried P. cubensis. (Recreational doses are 1-5 grams.)

Combining DMT with an MAO inhibitor allows it to be taken orally. Ground up Syrian Rue seeds are popular for this; they also contain psychedelic chemicals that are also present in ayahuasca.

DMT does have its advantages, though, and one of them is that there are many plants that produce large amounts of it. Some of them are easy to cultivate as houseplants. The difficulties lie in smoking, or extracting, the stuff. Taking it orally after syrian rue tea is easier, but the trip is different.

Also, it needs to be said: The Man frowns upon such activities, preferring its "bee-yotches" to confine themselves to tobacco, alcohol, and television. So be cautious -- look both ways before crossing the Road to Enlightenment!

--p!
Always looking out for the Public Interest.

[cestpaspossible]

13. It's obvious that you've never taken DMT

right?

[Dogmudgeon]

14. Wrong -- probably

"Probably" because I had no way to test what I was taking. And unlike most DMT users, I didn't smoke or inject it.

But I also think you're overestimating my use of the idea that DMT=Psilocybin. Chemically, they act the same, but no two drug trips are alike. The drugs are, as far as I can tell, catalysts. They produce different spectra of effects, but no two experiences will be identical; often not even close (which seems to be especially true for LSD).

Actually, I believe the fault is mine -- I didn't make this point clear enough, and gave the wrong impression. What are your own experiences like?

--p!

[cestpaspossible]

15. How did you ingest it?

Wouldn't the fact that you ingested it differently from most people explain why the effect on you was so markedly different from the other reports?

[Dogmudgeon]

12. duped again!

[Syrinx]

18. haven't read either of those books

But I have read two very interesting profiles on Shulgin fairly recently. I believe they were in Rolling Stone and the New York Times Magazine. Interesting fellow, and brave too.

[illflem]

10. Doing it once was enough for me

What little of my own thoughts I could muster mostly were when will this be over? I didn't like the lack of control under it, all I could do was sit there talking to Abe Lincoln.
Really

[Syrinx]

16. what did Abe have to say

I'd be curious to hear. Seriously.

[illflem]

19. Bout all I remember is the same ol

four score line. I injected it, the peak of the high was almost instantaneous, that was the worst part.

If you want a cheap high that is almost the same take 10 Marizine seasick tablets. Make sure someone is with you it as it is very difficult to separate the hallucinations from reality.
Disclamer: at your own risk

[Syrinx]

20. I seem to recall something about that

Years ago I think someone told me about tripping on seasick pills. Tell you the truth, I trust the underground chemists more than the corps. If you have to take ten tabs, I'm wondering what's up? You know? What kind of extra, unnecessary shit do they have in there?

The most exotic drug I take these days is lite-beer, but I still find psychedelics to be endlessly fascinating (to read about).