Calm Down or Else

[groovedaddy]

The children return from school confused, scared and sometimes with bruises on their wrists, arms or face. Many won’t talk about what happened, or simply can’t, because they are unable to communicate easily, if at all.

“What Tim eventually said,” said John Miller, a podiatrist in Allegany, N.Y., about his son, then 12, “was that he didn’t want to go to school because he thought the school was trying to kill him.”

Dr. Miller learned that Tim, who has Asperger’s syndrome, was being unusually confrontational in class, and that more than once teachers had held him down on the floor to “calm him down,” according to logs teachers kept to track his behavior; on at least one occasion, adults held Tim prone for 20 minutes until he stopped struggling.

The Millers are suing the district, in part for costs of therapy for their son as a result of the restraints. The district did not dispute the logs but denied that teachers behaved improperly.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/15/health/15restraint.html?th&emc=th

[nels25]

1. This why any sane person would be nuts to go into education

in a lot of ways the inmates are running the asylum.

Mainstreaming students like this one helps no one.

Can I sue because my son/daughter is being denied a education because of this students disruption?

Mean while as evidence here in Milwaukee a large portion of MPS teachers send their children to private schools, gee I wonder why??

Could it be they know something we do not??

[madeline_con]

23. "Can I sue...

... because my son/daughter is being denied a education because of this students disruption?"

I am graduating soon with a bachelor's in ExEd/ElemEd. While I would be the first to defend the special kids, I understand your point exactly.


I've seen situations where far too much nonsense and taking class timeaway from the majority has gone on, instead of removing the kid until he "makes better choices," calms down, stops being aggresive or whatever the case may be.

I honestly think that kids these days are so accustomed to having special needs kids among the reg ed kids that they don't realize when the situation has crossed the line into one they should not be expected to put up with. If kids only told their parents what goes on in the classroom, they would have a better chance at learning, instead of waiting while the resource officer is called, the kid lies on the floor kicking and screasming, throws stuff and attacks others.

It's unfair to expect an acceptable performance from students whose class is disrupted for behavior management on a regular basis.

[rox63]

2. I have a friend with an autistic son

He kicked a teacher's aide in the face hard enough to send her to the hospital. I'm not sure what the best sort of setting for him is. He's a very intelligent kid. When he's not acting out, and you can get him to talk, he's smart as a whip. But he apparently doesn't have enough control of his body to maintain himself in a classroom setting for an entire school day.

[Realityhack]

14. It is a tough situation...

My brother had some serious behavioral problems (also very smart) and was fortunate enough to be placed in a special program for behavior problems that worked quite well for him. The staff recognized his intelligence and was able to provide solid academics while addressing the much more important problem of self control. Later in school he ended up splitting time between the special program and a standard high school. Worked out amazingly.

Unfortunately that quality of program is rare. I feel sorry for all the kids who don't have something like that available but desperately need it. Without the right staff on hand having a student like that in the classroom can be downright dangerous and he could just as easily hurt himself. Plus, when someone does get hurt he will probably feel horrible about it after the fact. I understand the desire to mainstream but sometimes, for particular students it isn't the right choice.

I don't think you intended it but I wouldn't have used the phrase 'control of his body' it is not like a bladder control problem.

[LWolf]

3. I had an asperger's boy in my class for 4 years.

At the time, I worked in a school that did "looping," and I changed grade levels.

He never required restraint of any kind. Our biggest goal was to create a safe social environment for him. In addition to working with him on his social skills, we also had to teach his classmates how to interact with him.

He was fine when I left the state. I've often worried about his journey through adolescence and middle school.

I've had to restrain my grandson. It's not to "calm him down." Restraint isn't calming. It's to keep him from harming himself, others including me, and any stuff within range, including walls and windows.

He has ODD, with a tendency to violent outbreaks.

Restraining a child, even when done with calmness, compassion, and patience, is a horrible thing. I'm grateful that, with extensive long-term therapy and the stability we were able to give him when we removed him from his mother's influence, those instances are now rare.

Three years ago, they happened several times a day.

That's the only situation I can imagine in which I would attempt to restrain a student; an outbreak of violence which threatened others. If possible, I'd be more likely to call for admins to do so than to do it myself.

About 15 years ago, I had a 2nd grade student with ODD. A delightful young lady when she chose to be, and a major problem when she wanted to be, as well. She hid under furniture, ran away, and, on a field trip to the zoo, bit and kicked a teacher and climbed over the railing around the moat by the gorilla enclosure.

[groovedaddy]

4. "climbed over the railing around the moat by the gorilla enclosure."

Now that had to have been an exciting moment!
I have worked as a sub teacher for a number of years and did one full year as an emergency certified special ed teacher in a middle school. I mainly dealt with EBD kids, but they used me primarily for kids that had to be kept out of the general population. I saw things people wouldn't believe! 2 of the boys I had as students have since been shot and killed in gang related violence. Very sad.

[LWolf]

5. That was an exciting moment, to say the least.

:wow:

We were there with 5 classes, 5 teachers, and lots of parents. We'd divided the classes up into smaller multiage groups, with one parent per 5 kids, and a teacher rotating among, and keeping track of, 6 groups. This teacher happened to have been her kindergarten teacher, who knew her well. She, however, no longer being in K, decided to express her independence, so to speak.

I would have climbed into the gorilla enclosure after her, if necessary. Thankfully, when she saw me, she hopped back over and hid under a bush. It took me a little while to talk her out from under the bush, but I did it.

She was banned from field trips for the rest of the year.

Interestingly enough, she came to visit me often during her 8th grade year. She wasn't getting along with her teacher, but had a 4.0 and big plans for high school.

I think of her often, and hope she's worked through her control issues.

[Realityhack]

10. It is always so nice to see students grow up and concur their problems. n/t

[ulysses]

6. "because many parents expect restraints to be used — as long as it’s not their kid"

Yup. I've had to restrain kids before. None who were on the spectrum, though. Some of them were bigger than me - that's the glory of 16-year-olds in middle school. Not fun.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

7. Restraint may have been necessary, but the parents should have been told.

Holding a child down may sometimes be the only way to stop them harming themself or others - I question whether a child for whom this is often the case should be in mainstream education, but if it is then it's not fair to take the school to task for doing it.

But if it is necessary, the parents should be told, I think.

[Realityhack]

9. You are correct

The parents should have been informed.

And if this happens frequently there is no way the student should be mainstreamed. A specialized program provides a lot of benefits that parents rarely think of when they push for mainstreaming.

In a good special program you will have a couple of teachers for every 8 kids or so. All fully restraint trained. They will know how to de-escalate things before a restraint is required much better than most teachers. They will be better equipped to handle a restraint safely. And they will be better able to address issues like making sure the restraint is not going on in front of all the students in the class (having everyone see you out of control isn't very helpful).

Too many parents simply do not understand this. I understand the problems with special programs but when people may get hurt it is time to look toward different solutions.

[Odin2005]

18. Too much use of physical restaint is a sign that the teachers don't understand...

...what an autistic person "works."

[Realityhack]

21. No

too much restraint is just illegal.

In the case where a student becomes a danger to themselves or others they need to be restrained regardless of why or 'how they work'.

During escalation their are plenty of opportunities to try to calm the student down based on exactly how a particular student 'works'. However, once their is a danger it must be dealt with.

Using restraint when their is no danger is just illegal (at least in my state). Failure to use it when it is required is endangerment (also illegal, not to mention a horrible idea).

If a student has frequent (very different from 'too much') restraints it is a sign that something is wrong. This is where teachers, parents, therapists, psychiatrists, etc. can come together and work on the problem resulting in less problems to begin with or more deescalations prior to restraint being needed.

It is VERY important to differentiate between the period when a student is escalating and when they are actually a danger to themselves or others.

But regardless of how any student 'works' once they escalate to the danger point restraint is required.

[Realityhack]

8. Ug...

If the teachers are keeping a log their is a decent chance they are doing things at least somewhat correctly.
In MA where I am personnel must be specially trained on proper, safe restraint techniques. Logs must be kept. Medical checks must be made, etc., etc. (I worked in this field for a while).
I have heard of and even seen staff (even those who are trained and SHOULD know better) using restraints when they were NOT warranted (yes I wrote an abuse report to the state). Legally I think this is the key question. The 'calm him down' wording is questionable but may be out of context or a misquote so I do not want to read to much into it.

The issue is that if a student is a danger to themselves or others they do need to be restrained. Period. The article states
"despite the potential for harm and scant evidence of benefit"
On what fucking planet? I have personal experience here. The benefit is little Timmy doesn't beat the shit out of himself, a staff member, or another student. Anyone making the above statement is clearly willfully ignorant of the facts of what happens with many students. Bans on restraints will only lead to injuries as the only choice at that point would be to call in the police who ARE authorized to use pain as a compliance technique.
I do however agree with better oversite, training, etc. One program I worked at was phenomenal, another was garbage.

Parents are often not very understanding of what happens in the classroom. Their child may be fine at home but act out at school (for any number of reasons). 20min is not entirely unusual for a student restraint depending upon the type of student you are dealing with.

In the end I think the student in the OP most likely belongs in a special program for students that act out frequently. Without more information I can't be sure of that but it definitely sounds like it.

[LWolf]

11. People who have never been present

when a child "blew" and did things that were harmful to self, others, and the environment may not be able to envision a point that restraint would be necessary.

If they were faced with flying chairs, students trying to strangle themselves or someone else, etc., I bet they'd change their minds pretty quickly.

[Realityhack]

12. It is just so irrisponsible to advocate an outright ban.

That would be like banning the police from using guns because they are sometimes mis-used. It makes things far worse not better.

[LWolf]

15. Yes.

Better would be to identify students with issues before they reach that point, and to have the programs and services in place to help them. To be proactive, so to speak.

We have a small county school for kids with those kinds of issues; not for autism, but for emotional/social/behavior issues that can't be managed reasonably in a regular setting. There are never any more than 10-12 kids at that school; it comes complete with on-site counseling, family counseling, etc., and has a "safe room." It has an excellent record of successfully transitioning kids back into a regular program. The only drawback is expense, and the fact that I KNOW that there are more than 10-12 kids in any given county that might need those services.

[Realityhack]

16. That only works some of the time

plenty of kids have problems right off the bad. We had plenty of K-1 students along with all the rest.

That sounds like a program fairly similar to one of the ones I worked at. On site counseling, 'safe room' etc. Given the population in my area (south of Boston) they usually have a waiting list even though we had more students than that (I want to say around 40ish).
It is expensive so school districts (who must foot the expense) would wait (for the most part) to send us kids until they were WAY out of control.

These types of programs (the high quality ones) need to be better supported. This is where you can correct problems before the become an even bigger burden on society.

Many children who are abused (any form) end up in such a setting.

[Realityhack]

13. Also, IIRC the perosn making that statment was a so called expert. n/t

[Odin2005]

19. The fact that the kids are fine at home but are acting up at school should tell you something.

And that something is that certain things in the school environment must be triggering the behavior. I know in my own case that I would have my "Asperger blowups" almost always because of some sensory thing or teasing by classmates when when I tried to explain things I was accused of "making up excuses" for my "bad behavior." :eyes:

Sorry, but the parent's are NOT the problem. The problem is with the schools and with teachers that refuse to understand us.

[Realityhack]

20. Only partialy

You are absolutely correct that schools need to be better at understanding things like Aspergers. However, parents who fail to understand that some classrooms might not be suited to such students are also a problem.

Furthermore, their are a lot of other reasons children might act out. So even if it tells you something it does NOT tell you something is 'wrong' with the way the school is handling things. In one of the programs I worked at we had students with fairly severe Aspergers, we also had students who acted out for other reasons. One of the most common was histories of abuse. The kids would be fine at home but once they where in the safe environment at school they would act out.

Each case is very different. But one commonality is that regardless of the trigger, once a child becomes a danger to themselves or others they need to be restrained.

Their are lots of bad teachers, but their are lots of good ones too.

Teachers, parents, and students need to realize that the school environment is different from the home environment and will result in different behavior.
I don't know much about you but let me say this. When I saw a child with Aspergers 'blowup' their where two things that where addressed, one (assuming it was present) any other students acting inappropriately or other contributing factors that could be reasonably controlled, and two how the student who 'blew up' handled the issue. A huge part of what we did was working to help students respond appropriately. The student might not be 'making up excuses' but they might have over-reacted to a common situation and they need help learning to deal with that because it is something they have trouble with.

We can all accept (I hope) that:
a student being teased is wrong.
the recipient hauling off and punching them, or throwing a chair, or etc. etc. is also wrong.

So you address both issues if they are both present.

In my personal experience I can assure you that parents do not always understand this and students seldom do (which is why they need help in the first place). Understanding teachers can help students overcome these problems but parents do sometimes stand in the way.

[donco6]

24. Because we MUST use retraint, . . . .

.. . there can't BE any evidence of benefit. There is no control group. There is NO WHERE that I know of that doesn't use restraint when you have to. I mean, you just HAVE to. There's no other choice. I've seen kids beating on glass windows, fer chrissakes. Pulling their own hair out. Banging their head on the whiteboard tray. It's not POSSIBLE not to restrain.

Good God.

[Realityhack]

25. Yeah, whoever said that had no idea what they where talking about...

what makes me furious is that someone would use such a source in an article. WTF is up with that? It's like doing an article on the war in Iraq and using the crazy guy on the street corner who says aliens are going to escalate the war to a nuclear confrontation as a serious source.

[Odin2005]

17. I have Asperger's Syndrome and I am frikking outraged by this.

Schools generally treat us aspies and other autistics like crap. They refuse to understand our sensory and communication issues, wrongly declaring us to be intentionally "acting up" or "being rude" and when we try to explain the problem we are accused of "making up excuses."

Also, people get away with abusing less highly functioning autistics because they have trouble communicating with people.

[Realityhack]

22. That is a widespread problem however...

that does not mean it happened in this case. That should always be kept in mind.

This is one of the reasons some people advocate for not mainstreaming some students. Their needs are outside the experience and expertise of the standard classroom (and sometimes outside its physical layout as well).

One of the toughest things to address IMO is very high functioning Aspergers or autistic students because people tend to assume they are high functioning across the board and fail to understand what is wrong when an issue does come up.

[LWolf]

27. Having taught aspies,

I think you over over-generalizing.

If a school, or a teacher, has not mainstreamed a student with Asperger's, they are bound to make errors. It should be the job of the special ed team, and I hope the special ed team is aware, to educate regular ed teachers.

My first case? I diagnosed him myself. Not formally, of course. I worked with him, sat in SSTs about him, and finally had him in my own room. I thought there was something we were missing, so I researched his behaviors and called in my district level psych to ask if it were possible. He agreed, took over from there, got him formally diagnosed, and we were able to educate his teachers after me.

He and I had a great relationship that went on until I moved out of state.

The main obstacle we had to overcome was lack of information. Because he was, in some ways, so gifted, adults made many wrong assumptions about him, his behavior, and his needs. Teachers have to be educated about autism and asperger's.

Because there are more cases now, many districts are doing so. Autism and Asperger's, and how to deal with them, are becoming part of the body of professional knowledge. It's a process, but it's happening.

[Realityhack]

26. "scant evidence of benefit, Dr. Peterson said." if that is a medical degree...

he should loose his license immediately. I don't know about anywhere else but IIRC doctors are mandated reporters here. And failure to restrain a student who was hurting themselves or others would have to be reported.
This nut should be kept away from children.