Virtual School Proponents In Wisconsin Want Special Treatment

[Dinger]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/W/WI_VIRTUAL_SCHOOLS_WIOL-?SITE=WIMAD&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT


Virtual school applicants likely exceed cap

MADISON, Wis. (AP) -- The number of applicants for virtual schools in Wisconsin could exceed the 5,250 cap set by the state Legislature.

The Department of Public Instruction has notified the virtual schools that there appears to be more interest in online instruction than what's allowed by law. The DPI expects to know for certain by late summer. If the 5,250 cap is exceeded, the state would hold a lottery to decide who gets into the schools.

Advocates for virtual schools are urging lawmakers to remove the enrollment cap set by the Legislature and Gov. Jim Doyle last year.

The cap was enacted after the state's largest teachers union, the Wisconsin Education Association Council, successfully sued Wisconsin Virtual Academy and the Northern Ozaukee School District over the existence of Internet schools.


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We just had a statewide election for Superintendent Of Schools. The person who lost had NO professional experience of any kind. She was a retired nurse (rose fernandez). She was a big virtual schools proponent. The person who won, Tony Evers, (Thank God!) had 34 years of educational experience, which included teaching experience, principal experience, superintendent experience, and for the previous 8 years he was the deputy state superintendent of schools. Yet in the primary, this woman got second place (there were 5 candidates) by only 4%. What's with people?

[ixion]

1. then raise the cap

problem solved. :)

[Dinger]

2. Not For PUBLIC Schools, With ACTUAL Teachers In Them

Public schools have been the whipping boy of too many for too long. Like public schools need more taken form them.

[earthside]

13. Whip Harder!

Frankly, I've had it with the current state of public education.

Standardized testing and state/federal mandated curriculum are dumbing our children down more every year -- yet the plaintive plea for more and more funding never stops.

The teachers' unions in too many locales have become total sell-outs to the NCLB agenda -- they don't fight against high stakes standardized testing and BORING curriculum, they have in many cases decided to embrace those degrading schemes.

I am to the point where anything (except vouchers that could be used at religious schools) would be an improvement ... if for no other reason than to shake-up the education-industrial complex that is wrapped-up in its jargon and professionalism and bureaucracy -- we need to make people seriously re-examine what is actually going on in public education.

Time to get rid of all the consultants and text book vendors and corporate testing whores and out-sourced services providers ... and make schools places of learning instead of regimented schooling. Indeed, empower real teachers by letting them teach students in the interest of only what is best for the student!

My, yes. Online school is going to be a great thing for many kids, it can give them the time and freedom to educate themselves, learn from parents and family, mentor to a retired wise woman or man, teach themselves a skill at a job, so on and so forth.

Until teachers and parents and students flatly call for a revolution to end centralized, corporatized schooling, then I'm for anything that gives kids more abiltiy to learn in a way that suits them best.

[unschooler]

14. Here! Here! Whatever works is what we must do!

Kids and parents know what works! We shouldn't be holding lotteries to allow kids into alternative programs; we should create more alternative programs! So long as these kids meet standards, WHO CARES how or where they learn? Innovation is what will make people WANT to get back into the public system. Just maintaining the status quo is soooo much more dangerous than trying things and finding out what works.

[Catshrink]

3. Oh come on!

She went to public school and is therefore an expert on education. (Do I really need this --> :sarcasm: ?)

Unfortunately, that's the way too many politicians think. They have no clue about what teachers do and the demands placed on them. Cognitive development? What's that? Some kind of librul gibberish?

[Dinger]

4. LOL, Good One

Nail hits head.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. Cause everyone knows a computer can do it as well as a teacher in a classroom!

:sarcasm:

How insulting. To teachers and to kids.

[noamnety]

7. You know onine classes have teachers, right?

A "computer" doesn't teach the class, and to claim that is insulting to teachers who teach online courses.

If you have a reasonable argument to make, you'll be able to do it without misrepresenting that, without pretending that "computers" teach online classes. The teacher uses written instead of oral instruction, the student responds with written instead of oral responses.

For some students it's a much better fit for their circumstances, for a number of reasons. I'm sure we all know students that have problems with typical school structure in general (again, for a number of reasons).

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. The best alternative in every situation is a real live teacher

I have taken online classes. I am old enough that I took TV classes, where the teacher was on a closed circuit TV. And I favor a real live teacher in a real live classroom every time.

I stand by my comments.

[noamnety]

10. That's great that YOU favor it "every" time.

I'm sure my former student who isn't allowed to be in a real live classroom because of treatment that affects her immune system is thrilled that your alternative for her is no school at all if she can't be in the live classroom.

How does it help my former student who isn't allowed to be in a real live classroom because he brought the pocket knife his dad gave him for Christmas to school on day?

How does it help my former student who had ambiguous gender traits and had to transfer to a school for emotionally disturbed kids - not because he was emotionally disturbed, but because his normal neighborhood school with general ed teenaged boys was not a physically safe environment for him?

How does it help kids who are profoundly deaf?

You believe one-size-fits-all is best for all students. Obviously oral communication is better for you than written communication. That says something about your learning style, and about you being relatively normal in the bell curve in ways that matter in school.

But you - you are not all students.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. Public schools serve all kids

There are special education programs in place for all of these kids and you know it. There are alternative schools (mandated in my state) for the kid who brought the knife to school and the kid in an ED setting.

I am a special ed teacher. We teach profoundly deaf students. And kids with gender issues. And kids who bring weapons to school. And kids with profound disabilities. And kids with mild and moderate disabilities.

There are programs in traditional public schools and in more specialized settings. There are hospital based schools and programs that provide homebound instruction for kids who are unable for a variety of reasons to attend a traditional public school.

One-size-fits-all is not the norm in ANY public school and you know that too. Every teacher in every public school district in the country is trained in meeting the needs of diverse learners with varied learning styles and needs.

Every state in the country requires certified teachers to have coursework in special ed. Every single state. Unless you are not a certified teacher you have had this training and should have learned that public schools do not exclude kids.

I do not support any programs that exclude any kids. We educate every kid who walks in the door. To endorse any school or program that teaches only a select group of children or requires a disproportionate amount of resources is a betrayal of the basic philosophy of public education.

How insulting for you - a colleague - to imply we can't meet these children's needs. How incredibly insulting.

[noamnety]

12. It's a basic fact that we are NOT meeting all their needs.

It's not an insult, and you shouldn't take it as one. It's just a statement, and both anecdotal and statistical data backs that up. We've had several DUers talk about their needs not being met, and it does no good for you to say "yes they were" simply because it fits your dogma.

Your statement that public schools do not exclude kids did not address my concerns. I'm discussing what's best for kids based on their circumstances, not the fact that districts are required to serve special ed kids, I'm not sure where you thought I was going, but certainly not there - not to any implication that schools refuse to serve special ed kids - that was just weird.

You can teach a profoundly deaf student, but if they are mainstreamed in a school with only hearing kids, they are not getting a full educational experience, and nobody will convince me it's equivalent to what a hearing student gets. Having all their interactions with other students done though an interpreter is just not the same. I believe you know that on some level.

You can teach kids with gender issues, as teachers of course we can, but we can't control the other students' reactions to those issues to a degree where we can necessarily (depending on school and community culture) guarantee them a safe and appropriate environment. Again, you know that if a kid showed up who was a boy but looked like a girl and had breasts, that's likely to be a kid who is going to face harassment every day in the locker room, and school is going to be filled with anxiety and danger for that kid. In an online class, he's simply an equal, like everyone else. The bullying and harassment simply doesn't exist. You may not be willing to admit it, but you know it's true.

One of the best programs that can provide a full and rigorous education to homebound students is online courses, and I believe you know that. That's a way to ensure they aren't getting an hour a week or maybe 2 if they are lucky of a teacher dropping off assignments from a bunch of other teachers and attempting to tutor in areas they aren't qualified for. Unless the math teacher, the science teacher, the language teacher, etc. are all doing home visits, 5 hours a day, it's simply not an equivalent education. If you school is managing that for your homebound students, I'd question how you are funding it - class sizes of One are pretty hard to afford in a budget. I think most schools cut some corners on that out of necessity, because they simply can't have a teacher with a homebound student 7 or 8 hours a day.

In my state, kids who bring weapons to school are expelled for a full year under state law. I'm surprised they aren't expelled in your district.

[unschooler]

16. Some online classes don't have teachers. Ever try Rosetta Stone?

No teacher - just a great approach to learning a foreign language.

[Posteritatis]

18. That's not a class, it's a piece of software (nt)

[donco6]

19. Rosetta Stone is survival language.

It's great for learning some basics. But it's not nearly the rigor you need to become fluent.

And yes, I've used it a lot.

[unschooler]

15. It's kids - not teachers - who do the learning, and different kids learn differently.

No insult at all. As to what works - we'll know that by a variety of indicators, including test scores, long-term outcomes, parent and student satisfaction, administrator observations... the usual means of figuring out what works.

[LWolf]

9. I've begun to wonder

if all the time, $$, and self I've invested in my profession is going to be flushed down the drain with public education.

Will there be any jobs for teachers to see me through the rest of my career? It appears to me that the multi-pronged attack against public ed and against teachers has actually increased and sped up since last November.

At this rate, I'm wondering if public ed will be extinct during my working lifetime.

I hope Wisconsin will hold the cap in place.

[unschooler]

17. There will ALWAYS be jobs for great teachers, and I suspect you are a great teacher.

Those online programs also employ teachers, adminstrators, secretaries, etc. Most people won't want or need to use these programs, but I don't think it makes sense to refuse these services to kids who want them just to save jobs in bricks and mortar schools. Like all other workers, educators must choose whether to try to hold back the clock or get ahead of the game. I believe the future of public education is bright, but it will look different in 20 years than it does now or did 20 years ago. I think future students will have a range of choices involving traditional classrooms, online classes and curriculum and community-based educational, training and internship opportunities. This is good for kids (which is the point, right?) and will provide lots of good-paying jobs for innovative educators, including classroom teachers, who are able to ride the wave of change.