Parents Assaulted and Kidnapped

[kerrywins]

http://www.covenantnews.com/blog/archives/064747.html

http://www.cbs6albany.com/news/district-1269895-school-county.html

Richard and Margie Cressy, homeschooling parents of four children who live in Glenn, New York, were assaulted and kidnapped by local police for the supposed crime of educating their children at home without receiving the required benediction from the local high priest of the educrat cult.

Under the pernicious doctrine of parens patriae, the default assumption is that children belong to the State. Under that scheme parents (whether biological or adopted) are granted the highly conditional privilege of feeding, housing, and otherwise caring for children unless and until the State claims them as its own.

[CBGLuthier]

1. Assaulted and kidnapped?

Ever think about a career in media. Fox News may be hiring.

[kerrywins]

2. it is one way to look at what literally happened

they were by definition, assaulted and by definition, kidnapped.

[ret5hd]

7. Correct, it is a "way". A rather delusional "way", but a "way" none the less.

:rofl:

[Deep13]

3. You mean they were arrested for not complying with the law. nt

[stray cat]

4. Is that the new term for arrested?

[damntexdem]

9. Yeah, like the guy who was assaulted and murdered for killing a cop in that courthouse.

I would suggest that if there is disagreement with the arrest, it might be wise to use "false arrest" rather than "assaulted and kidnapped."

[YOY]

5. Um...no.

n.t.

[enlightenment]

6. Do you read that 'covenant news' site regularly?

Because I think it might cause brain damage.
Kudos to you for posting the other link, which presents the story in a completely different light . . . but what's your point in posting the OP? There are rules for home-schooling; education is both a right and a mandate in the US and if parent's want to home-school, they at least need to notify the state that they are doing so.

I suspect that there may be other, more serious issues than a failure to register the intent to home-school that led to the state turning the matter over to family services.

[FBaggins]

8. NY has some of the strictest homeschooling laws in the country

I agree that parents should have the right to educate their children (since education is primarily their responsibility regardless of whether they homeschool or not)... BUT you have to follow the state laws unless they unreasonably interfere with fundamental rights.

I don't agree with all of NY's requirements, but they are not unconstitutional impositions of government force.

I don't know that arresting them was the most appropriate action... but it looks like they have been in violation of state law for several years. Assuming they had some prior notice that this was the case, how long do you let it ride?

This isn't a parens patriae case. Kids don't have to "belong to the state" for the state to have a valid interest.

And you won't find a much greater supporter of homeschooling on this board.

[tonysam]

10. The parents didn't do what they were supposed to do by law

These people don't deserve to be martyrs.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. Be interesting to know the the HSLDA has to say

NY does have strict laws but the local districts often over reach. While HSLDA site has a real fundie tone to it, it has really forced districts to live to actual law and not what some educrats think they are or want them to be.

[tonysam]

12. Sure they "overreach."

The parents needed to do their damned part; there is no point in making them into martyrs.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. The overreaching that seems the most common is districts requiring more than the state does

basically local demands not supported in the law. Seen a fair amount of that over the years. Sometimes its more data or testing or trying to require approvals of things that simply need to be submitted.

Here is the NY page from HSLDA: http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/NY/default.asp and this case is there

[FBaggins]

13. They've agreed to take the case.

Which itself gives some credibility to claims that the state overreached (though I can't see from the article where that's the case).

Though you would expect an advocacy organization to look for publicity, HSLDA has avoided some high-profile cases where they didn't think the right to homeschool was actually the issue (as with a recent divorce-related case). Their membership contract/agreement/whatever actually requires members to agree that they will follow the laws of their state.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

16. I'll have to find the site again and see what they have to say

We partially home schooled our girls. We were living out of the US, so things like US History classes were hard to find. It was supplemental and they understood why. Returning to the US and the public school system was a series of nightmares. The system just doesn't deal well with the atypical.

[alp227]

14. Don't listen to those comment posters on the CBS6 site complaining of losing their rights

The state just wants to make sure that parents are using "homeschooling" as a cover to let the kids play video games all day. It's so ironic that the homeschooling parents emphasize parental responsibility for their kids' education, but when the state asks for it, they all of a sudden scream "GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER"!!!!!!

[tonysam]

15. It's a matter of accountability. That's all.

Kids are not parents' property to do as they want; they are society's responsibility, and society has every right to make sure these kids are educated in order to be productive adults.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

17. I'm still looking for hard data. NY has a history of doing what it can to supress home schooling

[alp227]

18. Right on: With so many troubled kids out there...

how can we simply trust parents when a lot of parents are avoiding their responsibilities? And of course no human is ever anyone else's "property to do as they want". And considering that so many people out there can't even name their local Congressional representative or find Afghanistan on a map, it's a sign that someone's oughta spread the intellect any way possible.

[FBaggins]

20. The problem with that statement is... who is "we"?

how can we simply trust parents

In a tug-of-war between parents and an overworked/under-trained bureaucrat, I would prefer to err on the side of parents.

We absolutely must have safeguards in place to keep kids from slipping through the cracks... but I could never start the discussion with "how can we simply trust parents?" - We're going to be trusting somebody and our success rate will be higher with parents than with any other option.

Frankly... if we get to the point where we can't trust parents... there's nobody left TO trust.

[alp227]

29. Sorry I meant "How can the district just trust parents"

in case you were confused.

The problem in America? Parents who are either deadbeat or tyrannical - who either neglect to instill civility and moral values in their children or use their children as slaves.

[FBaggins]

30. I'm afraid I don't agree

How can the district just trust parents

The default position is that the district needs to earn the trust of parents... not the other way around - and that the district should "just trust parents" until there's a reasonable suspicion that they are "deadbeat or tyrannical" or otherwise failing.

To put it as you have turns "we the people" and "consent of the governed" on its head.

In the case above, the failure to comply with legal requirements gives the district reason to follow up with them. One would hope that this would start with a phone call and then a registered letter reminding them of their legal obligations and that (hopefully) would be the end of it.

On edit - And in this case, the county has previously given reason not to trust their judgment. There was a father who accidentally burned his daughter in the tub when he turned off the cold water first. He had complained for months to the landlord that the water was too hot (the correct setting on a water heater is something like 125 degrees, so a kid can't get second degree burns in any circumstance) yet the landlord never fixed it (the water was later tested at over 150 degrees. It was an accident... and absent other evidence of abuse, any reasonable person would recognize this (and would likely take action against the landlord).

CPS and DSS didn't do anything to the landlord, but arrested dad and charged him with abuse. Of course a jury acquitted him on all charges, but he lost his apartment, his kids were taken away from him for ten months, and he was in jail for seven months. This has cost county taxpayers in excess of $100k (not counting what he may get in a lawsuit... which he must file separately from the one to have his name removed from the NY child abuse registry.)

I'd say we have reason to question why we should trust this county. My earlier presumption was that the parents in the case MUST have ignored some prior communications that would have cleared all of this up... what sane person would start with arrest for failure to present paperwork otherwise? Now I'm not so sure.

HSLDA likes to take cases where they can publish a quick report on how they pointed the errant school district in the right direction. It's how they continue to bring in dues in an age where there really isn't a fight any longer over the right to homeschool... it's mostly minutia (important minutia, but when they started there were parents threatened with jail for homeschooling at all and it was illegal in many states). I suspect they know something that hasn't been reported yet.

OTOH, the I watched the video with the superintendant and he appears to be a very rational and reasonable person. I don't know that the school board is a problem here.

[FBaggins]

19. Close... but takes it too far.

Kids are not parents' property to do as they want; they are society's responsibility

The phrasing there comes perilously close to "they are the state's property"... which is false. In any statement comparing rights/responsibilities regarding children... it should be CLEAR that parents have primacy over the state absent a showing of negligence.

The state (i.e., government in general) is primarily accountable to parents, not the other way around (when we're talking about education). The state's "right" in this regard extends only to reasonable protections for the kids. In a perfect world that should only happen once there is a reason to doubt the parents' ability to care for the kid(s)... but reasonable regulations can be set up to facilitate this.

New York's requirements are (IMO) unnecessarily burdensome and unlikely to help a single kid... but public school teachers are used to plenty of superfluous paperwork... "unnecessary and burdensome" is not the same thing as "unconstitutional... therefore I can ignore it as a violation of my rights"

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. Why did you post this here instead of in the homeschooling group?

[FBaggins]

23. Is there really a group?

Homeschooling isn't "education" now?

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. No I am just making it up

:sarcasm:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=251

[FBaggins]

25. The OP doesn't have a star and therefore couldn't post there...

... and, though you didn't respond, homeschooling most certainly fits in "education".

Now... whether THIS thread belongs in either place? That depends on what additional information comes out. I'm leary of the source, but swayed somewhat by HSLDA's participation. The title of the OP inclines me to think there's excessive bias in the reporting.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. Long before you came here, we lobbied for that Homeschooling group

due to lots of discussions here that got out of hand.

So yes, this thread does belong there. Just look at the responses. And the OP can get a star for as little as $5. :)

[FBaggins]

28. Need to get one myself.

Don't want to give that little... need to wait for the Christmas bills to come in to see what's left. :)

It's really a shame that it would get out of hand. Both sides are clearly interested in the best education possible... it's the parents who wouldn't even look for such topics that we need to worry about.

As for "just look at the responses", I don't see them as anti-homeschooling. There were no "they should all be locked up" posts... the only real negative posts (apart from re: the source link of the OP) were simply saying that the parents should follow the law.

[FBaggins]

27. Here's a better link with a video interview of the school superintendent

The whole thing may amount to much ado about not very much. The parents have since filed the appropriate paperwork and the superintendent has approved their plan.

I'm not sure why "child endangerment" ever became a part of it, but perhaps there's more to the story. What I'd like to know is whether this is the first time anyone contacted the parents. Certainly they have an obligation to understand and follow the law, but it would really suck if they were ignorant of the requirements and the first notice was an arrest. Surely someone sent them a letter?

http://www.cbs6albany.com/news/kids-1269933-happen-county.html