Bobb unveils DPS academic overhaul

[tonysam]

The Detroit Public Schools turnaround team is developing a top-to-bottom academic reform plan aimed at bringing the troubled district on par with national average ACT, graduation and dropout rates by 2015.

The district, which has the lowest graduation rate among big cities, would require every high school student to take a college-level course, mandate pre-algebra for sixth-graders and pair pre-kindergarten students with reading tutors as part of an estimated $80 million dollar plan.

The ambitious plan comes as Emergency Financial Manager Robert Bobb is embroiled in a lawsuit with the school board over who has authority over academics.


Infighting, trips to Lansing and court battles accomplish nothing, said Anthony Adams, vice chairman of the school board, who hasn't seen Bobb's plan.

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Robert Bobb, of course, is yet another Eli Broad Academy "graduate" (2005). Can you believe this shit about PRE-K children being force fed reading "tutors"?

[Fire1]

1. There's nothing wrong with the tutor idea, it's just that he has

no business trying to control 'academics.'

[tonysam]

2. There's plenty wrong with having tutors for FOUR YEAR OLDS.

They need to be KIDS first and foremost.

[Fire1]

3. Four and five year olds are pre-schoolers. These children

are being taught what is known as, "reading readiness." Take your head out of your ass and think before you type.

[tonysam]

5. Spare me the rude remarks.

These little kids don't need tutors. They don't fucking need to be pushed.

By the way, what do you think this is all about? All about testing, testing, testing. Little kids don't fucking need "tutoring."

[Fire1]

8. "Rude" is what your remark deserves. This is not about "testing."

This is about preparing children to enter Kindergarten and functioning on grade level. Sadly, people like you are the reason they need tutors. Too many of these parents don't teach their children anything before kindergarten. They don't expose them to learning activities. They don't read to them. By the time children get to kindergarten they are expected to know their full legal name, their colors, their address, phone number, parent's name and at least count to ten and know the numeric value of those numbers, just to name a FEW concepts that encompasses "readiness."

[tonysam]

9. Only an Eli Broad person with NO background in teaching

proposes tutors for FOUR YEAR OLDs. I will no longer respond to your posts because you are acting condescending. Not only that, but you are fucking ignorant. People like you are the reason people like Bobb are wrecking public schools. You don't know what you are talking about. I seriously doubt you have any experience working with little kids, but you sure act like a fucking know-it-all.

Little children are being pushed WAY before they are ready.

[Fire1]

13. I doubt it ever dawned on you that the reason I certainly know

what I'm talking about is because I am a teacher. DUH!

[Fire1]

11. AND it's attitudes like yours that probably has alot to do with

the U.S. ranking in academics. Students no longer VALUE education and it's importance.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. Kindergarteners are 5, not 4

I also think this is a wonderful idea. We have so many kids in my district who would benefit from an early tutoring program. Bring it on.

But there's the whole Eli Broad connection. That is bad.

[tonysam]

17. That's what I am bitching about.

This has to do with shoving academics on younger and younger kids when kids should be kids. And then shoving pre-algebra at earlier ages so even MORE kids fall through the cracks.

This is really about creating MORE dropouts in public education, not fewer.

These Eli Broad and other "reform" types keep moving the goal posts. Now we will have four-year-olds doing the work five-year-olds are doing, and on and on down the road. More kids will drop out of high school because they can't handle the work.

It's all by design, and it has nothing to do with what is best for kids. They WANT dropouts to be exploited as cheap labor.

[tonysam]

18. The article is talking about preschool not kindergarten. n/t

[Fire1]

20. I've known some 4 yr. olds in kindergarten who turned 5

mid year.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. In what state?

Most states require kids to be 5 before they enter kindergarten. In my state, they have to be 5 by July 1.

[Fire1]

27. We are finding out that ALOT of things have been done here

that do not follow state and even FEDERAL laws and mandates. This is Michigan. We've found out that for the last ten years we have not been following federal benchmarks in the reading curriculum!

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. I doubt you are required to folow federal benchmarks in the reading curriculum

They are actually just recommendations, not mandates. The feds mandate testing and not much else nowadays. Your curriculum mandates would come from the state level.

But I understand your point. There are actually some practices we should not be ignoring.

[Fire1]

32. This is what we have been told. n/t

[donco6]

42. In mine they have to be 5 by Oct 1. n/t

[rubberducky]

4. SOMEONE has to help Detroit schools. This man seems to be trying to help.

The system is sssooo bad here that ANY interest would be helpful. He seems to be cleaning out an awful lot of corruption and waste. I think he should be given a chance. IMHO

[tonysam]

6. He's Eli Broad

This isn't about "reform"; it's about destroying public schools.

[midnight]

7. Sometime I wonder what the teachers can do? They really should

inverse this model. Make it from the needs of teacher and students first. I'm not a teacher, but I can't understand why we expect them to have so many students. I wish our teachers would have smaller class sizes.

[tonysam]

10. When somebody proposes TUTORS for little kids

you know things are bad.

Shoving academics before kids are ready is the first step to putting them on the road to being a member of the underclass. Little kids who are NOT ready for reading and math are then tracked into special education and all too often end up on the losing end of the deal.

[Fire1]

14. Children cannot be tested for learning disabilities in their

primary grades.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. Where did you get that idea?

I am an LD teacher in an elementary school. If what you claim is true, I wouldn't have a job. :rofl:

[tonysam]

19. It's really about creating an underclass.

The Eli Broad types WANT more dropouts and fewer high school graduates. The earlier the kids can be tracked into failure, the better.

[Fire1]

21. Then I guess it depends on the principal and the psychologist

because at one of the schools where I taught several years ago, I requested that the child be tested because he had failed kindergarten twice and they told me, "No! We don't test children that young. You have to wait until the third grade!" I was furious because I KNEW this child was developmentally delayed.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. No - there are laws and they were violated

Sadly, you didn't know that. Do you have a degree in education? This is pretty basic special ed knowledge and teachers in all 50 states are required to take a sped class as part of their undergrad coursework.

[Fire1]

25. No. I don't teach special ed. I teach k-8 but we can still

recommend testing.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. Then you knew that what you were told was wrong?

I'm confused here. Like I said, this is basic knowledge of sped that all education majors get in college.

[Fire1]

31. Sorry, it is not basic knowledge for regular ed teachers to know

the laws governing special ed. We sit in on IEP's and Co-ordinating Teams to consult with Resource teachers who pull them out two or three times a week but we are not required to know special ed laws.

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. Every graduate from a teacher education program is required to take a basic sped class

in all 50 states. In that class you would have learned that it is indeed appropriate to refer kids in primary grades for testing.

You can also find out most of what you need to know about sped laws on the internet.

[tonysam]

34. I had to take an introductory course, which was required of ALL students in education as well

as an ESL course.

Then of course I took quite a few more to get licensed in special ed in Nevada.

[Fire1]

35. Ma'm, I've been teaching for over twenty years. That may be

the requirement NOW but when I got my certification, I had NO special education classes and I got mine from a major university.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. It's been mandated by the feds since 1974

[Fire1]

37. That may be! But that doesn't change the fact that I was not

required to take those classes. I've also consulted with three of my colleagues this evening and THEY never had that class, either! As you stated earlier, those are just "mandates." I think it depends moreso, on the college or university you attended or the state where you are certified.

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. Special ed law was initially passed in 1974

In order to receive funding for educating kids with disabilities, a state must require a basic intro class on sped kids and sped programming for all teacher certification programs.

Sadly you and your colleagues either slept through this class or you went through an alternative cert program with a quick and dirty version of this course.

Or your state accepts no federal funding for sped. And I find that very hard to believe.

[Fire1]

39. Indeed, we receive federal funding. I think at least one of us

would recall any version of this particular class had any of us been required to take it. Sorry 'bout that! :shrug:

[tonysam]

40. I have a feeling this person is one of those alternate certs

just from the posts.

Getting back to the topic, how in the HELL can ANYBODY with a straight face think it is okay to have reading tutors for four-year-olds and pre-algebra for sixth graders?

It's fucking batshit.

[Fire1]

41. Proud said even in the alternative certification program

(whatever that is)one is required to take this class! All of these teachers can't be from a alternative program! We all went to different universities!:rofl:

[Hannah Bell]

50. of course they can, & are.

[tonysam]

12. And fucking pre-algebra in sixth grade. J.C. on a cracker.

Full-blown pre-algebra and algebra are already being shoved on middle school kids, a full three years before they should have it. Talk about a goddamned disaster for kids.

[alp227]

43. In high school I met a lot of smart kids who took pre-algebra in 6th grade.

That's because they were in Gifted and Talented Program and Honors classes as well. And if you're complaining so much about pre-algebra being pushed onto children too early, do you also realize that there are many upperclassmen in high schools and even college students who can't even pass frickin first-year algebra for crying out loud! And one of my new friends from college attended a Catholic high school and is really bright and articulate but ended up taking remedial algebra in college because he flunked the placement test; in his senior year at Catholic school he took pre-calculus. (BTW, I went to a public high school.)

[tonysam]

22. Susan Ohanian's comment

Ohanian Comment: Innovation defined as reading tutors for pre-kindergartners and pre-algebra for sixth-graders. They call it "runing this race a little faster than people normally run it." It's worse than a farce. When you deny child development, it's a tragedy.

This is what you get from Broad Foundation-trained leaders: reading tutors for pre-kindergartners.

THIS is why I am against this crap by Bobb. It's inappropriate for most kids. And it's destined to fail--on purpose.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. Makes you wonder whatever happened to Piaget

He is surely rolling in his grave. Maria Montessori as well.

[tonysam]

30. Absolutely. It's outrageous.

It breaks my heart to see little kids be forcefed garbage like what "reformers" like Bobb are proposing. It's NOT age-appropriate. It's a recipe for deliberate failure.

[alp227]

44. If you consider all this garbage, what would YOU do if you were in charge?

Think about it. This is Detroit, not Ann Arbor or Warren or some gated community, but rather an inner city where many of the parents don't value education and thus are conditioning their children to be illiterate. How else can you instill a love for learning among children with mindless, irresponsible parents and without many of the privileges of children from suburban public schools or private schools?

[tonysam]

45. I sure as hell wouldn't propose absolute BULLSHIT

like tutors for four-year-olds or cramming algebra on young kids. It is INSANE and obviously shows a complete ignorance of child development.

It doesn't matter if it is Detroit, Reno, or any other part of the country. You don't do this shit--EVER--to kids.

It's a form of child abuse and it is a deliberate attempt to force more kids to fail.

[alp227]

46. I understand that tutors may be overwhelming in terms of maturity...

so maybe I'd title the tutors as "helpers" and train them to be patient, compassionate, and friendly at the kids' level. On DU, often I've seen complaining but no alternatives to the current education reform plans that people have been bashing.

You still haven't answered my question about how to get children to value education when they're from households with illiterate parents. Should we just repeal their 13th Amendment rights and make 'em involuntary servants without any potential for intelligence?

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. I would bring the parents into the schools

I would develop as many programs as I could afford that brought parents into the schools. I have spent 30 years teaching in urban schools and the ones that work are the ones where parents are involved. Once we get parents into our schools they get a feel for what we are trying to accomplish and nearly 100% of them are very supportive. And if you are going to your child's school in the morning to read to the kindergarteners or to work in the library or the cafeteria, you are going to make sure your child does his homework tonight. Also if you (and your child) know that you will be seeing the principal tomorrow morning as well as your child's teachers, then you can bet your child will be on his best behavior today.

There are also after school programs and adult education classes that bring parents into schools. There are literally hundreds of different ideas to get the parents to come and participate in their child's education. It's not hard at all. I have never understood why more urban schools don't make parental involvement a #1 priority.

[alp227]

48. You have a good point.

"I have never understood why more urban schools don't make parental involvement a #1 priority."

Well, maybe it's because so many parents are listless that the schools don't think it's even worthy. But adult ed classes (such as helping parents get GEDs and such) can wake 'em up. Some people can change, and some people are just too damn stubborn to realize that they have children to care for.

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. Another problem we have in urban ed

are parents who never finished school, didn't like it much when they were kids, probably don't have good memories - so they avoid the school like some of us avoid having a cavity filled. This is especially true of the parents of my special ed students.

I also don't think we work hard enough to make parents feel welcome in our schools.