Can anyone explain to me

[stopschoolpaddling]

why an 8 year old boy in 2nd grade who can add numbers like 137+48 and 221+224 in his head within 30 seconds be required to complete a worksheet with 100 math "problems" for example 9+1=, 6+4= with the highest answer being 17?
I asked his teacher in the "public school" why and she says everyone has to complete them, it's required? Required for what?

[existentialist]

1. Once I was that kid.

and that aint the half of it.

[donco6]

2. That's just bad teaching.

Endless rote worksheets have gone the way of the dodo in a good teacher's classroom. I'd speak to the principal right away.

[teacher gal]

3. Can't speak for that particular school (or teacher)

but sure seems like a waste of the child's time, not to mention exceedingly boring for him. I can't see any reason why the teacher can't be giving him more challenging material.

[Smarmie Doofus]

7. If she's spending all of her time digging out of an avalanche.....

.... of redundant paperwork, assembling datafolios, trying to "align" iep goals ( inclusion?) with state standards, looking for paperwork that's been lost in the avalanche ( this sometimes holds me up for *days*), teaching test prep, completing bulletin board rubrics, completing hazardous materials inventories, teaching more test prep, rewriting iep's to change grammatically correct sentences into sentence fragments because that's the new format the "state wants", teaching yet MORE test prep, etc. etc. etc....... I can easily see why the needs of one of about thirty kids would go at least temporarily unaddressed.

[noamnety]

4. Ugh, my daughter had to go through a similar thing

She could read full books, but had to do stupid worksheets tracing individual letters and sounding them out. She didn't see the point, so she didn't do them, and then the teachers wanted to put her in the "slow" class. I didn't realize til conferences a few months into the year what was going on.

The teachers wouldn't budge, so we had to have the talk about "sucking it up and playing the game" even though she wasn't learning anything. (If people wonder why I support alternative education options, it's all from experience).

I understand the point of worksheets for drills, there is some educational value in that, but not if a student has already mastered the material. There should be an option to test out and do an alternative assignment.

[LeftyMom]

5. Many teachers resent kids who are exceptional.

Meeting their needs makes life more difficult, and who let them get ahead of their peers anyhow?

I know it's somehow not okay to say anymore, but schools need tracking based on ability. Trying to teach 30ish 8 year olds math when some of them can do multiplication in their heads and one knows a little algebra and a few can barely add single digits and two are special ed students who shouldn't even be in a regular classroom isn't fair to anybody involved, and what almost invariably happens is that the educational needs of the students who are ahead of the curve get completely neglected unless they act out or their parents meet with half the school district.

If that were my kid (and it probably would be, were mine in public school, he's eight and does math at about a fifth or sixth grade level) I'd look at an alternate placement, either with a teacher who is more willing to accommodate his needs, with moving him to a higher grade for math, or in a gifted program if his other skills merit it. Or another setting entirely, but that might just be my bias talking, and there's no reason not to stick with the system if you can make it work for your kid.

[Hannah Bell]

27. "Many"? oh, right.

[grantcart]

6. It follows Kumon practice

The diference is not in seeing if a child "understands" the math in question but whether or not the child has mastered the basics.

Mastering here means that they have a much faster and more accurate handling of basic math making it easier for them to assimilate more complex problems later on.

Children who use this system typically can multiply, divide, add and subtract fractions by the third grade faster than non Kumon children can add regular numbers.

Virtually all Kumon students easily conquer advanced algebra by the 5th grade because when it comes to thinking about more complex problems all of the earlier steps are 'mastered' rather than taught for understanding.

I understand you may be sceptical of this approach but living in the third world my daughters were several grades ahead of their classmates when we returned to the US.

My youngest daughter was put into Kumon and remained first in her class in math up to college despite the fact that she doesn't have a natural inclination for math.

[fasttense]

8. The best thing a teacher ever made me do was a punishment.

I was caught talking in class with 2 other girls in 1st grade. We were made to walk in a circle during our recess instead of playing. While walking, we had to memorize the 1 through 12 time tables. I thought it was hopeless and I think she did too.

I think I'm slightly ADD. The walking and memorizing was great for me. I learned all the time tables and then found cool patterns in the numbers. I would talk over the patterns with my father at night. The other 2 girls didn't memorize the table and spent most of the time talking to each other. I got so into studying the table that I ignored my 2 friends. When the teacher quizzed us she was totally shocked that I knew them inside and out.

I never had a problem with math after that.

Sometimes rout and memorization is the best way to learn.

[stopschoolpaddling]

9. Incredible, really

I just can't believe a 1st grader was able to memorize the times tables up to twelve while walking in a circle during one recess. (it must have been the longest recess in history) If the best thing a teacher ever did for you was in the form of punishment, I can see why you have a hard time discerning what really happened and fantasy. Try again.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. Then you don't know much about child development

Yes, first graders can be taught to memorize just about anything and probably more than a kid just a few years older can memorize. They are little sponges. When I was in first grade, we had to memorize entire chapters in the New Testament. I also memorized the prelude to the constitution and knew all the presidents in order.

No that is not a very effective teaching technique and as a educator today I am grateful we gave up on the forced memorization nonsense years ago. The problem is memorization does not equal understanding. But yes, it is indeed possible.

[tonysam]

12. You have to use memorization, especially for math.

You lose it if you don't use it, especially higher math.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. Yes but we have to build understanding first

A 1st grader who has memorized the multiplication tables won't be a Math whiz unless she understands the why behind the facts on the tables.

I see this every day. As an LD teacher, I work with a lot of upper elementary kids who will probably never have basic facts memorized. But given a complicated constructed response or word problem and a calculator, they can find the answer almost every time. And explain it.

So I don't worry about teaching kids to memorize facts. I focus on the processes instead.

[tonysam]

16. The trouble is, so much of the current teaching of math

is so fucked up. You can sit and explain the why, but they still need to know HOW to do it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. And I think at the elementary level we are doing it so much better than we used to

We need to bring the secondary teachers on board. They worry too much about the fact that the kids don't have their facts memorized. I think if we keep asking them to apply the facts to real problem solving they eventually learn them. And if they don't, that's why we have calculators.

[stopschoolpaddling]

17. Seriously?

In one recess? If you believe that then perhaps you will believe I once planted a tomato plant that produced tomatoes the size of watermelons within two weeks.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. Read the post again

It wasn't at one recess.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. Talk to the principal

instead of coming to the internet for answers :)

[stopschoolpaddling]

18. How do you think a principle can help ?

when we have a principle who thinks that beating a child with a stick will help to convince him not to break the rules. Example " Kindergartener in first week of school hits classmate and recieves 3 hits from principle to teach her that hitting is unacceptable."
This principle did not even welcome me or my children into her school because she knew why were transferring; corporal punishment. No hello, how do you do, hello children, just a cold shoulder and repeating of "we do it by the book here, however it's written in the handbook that's how we do it." She actually ran after us and made sure I signed the handbook before I left.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. Because it is the princiPAL's job

If you can't get help there go to the principal's boss. Then the superintendent and then the school board.

Kids should never be hit at school. It is illegal in many states and IMO, is child abuse.

[stopschoolpaddling]

25. "Okay boys ,you win" '

[Dr. Strange]

14. Maybe required for later math?

The kid can add 137 + 48 in his head using base 10. When he gets introduced to base 5 or base 8 arithmetic, is he still going to be able to do that in his head? Maybe, maybe not. So the teacher wants to make sure he knows how to do 137 + 48 so he can apply the same approach in a more abstract setting.

[stopschoolpaddling]

19. I'm his mother

and I use all number combinations. They are completely random. Sometimes I wait for his answer and then get out a pen and paper to see if it is correct. 95% of the time it is, if not, I just need to repeat the question.

[LWolf]

15. More info needed.

Did you ask her who was requiring it, and why?

Are they timed math drills? Some districts have standardized "formative assessments" in place. I haven't seen something like that used, but it's possible.

Once you determine where the requirement is coming from, and what the purpose is, you can ask her what she is doing to differentiate instruction for your child, since he can obviously move on from proving that he knows his addition facts.

[stopschoolpaddling]

20. Yes, I'm going to ask her for a more in-depth

explanation of who requires it and why. After much prodding he is doing some advanced math but it is in addition to the classwork that he knows too well so it's extra work. And what child wants to do "EXTRA" work in a school where knowing more than you should is looked at as more of a burden than a blessing.

[LWolf]

21. Differentiation doesn't mean doing extra work;

it means doing different work.

Take a look at Carol Ann Tomlinson's work for a primer on differentiation, and then make sure you use the term, and the info, when you conference with the teacher.

[Laura902]

26. haha don't complain that your kids smart

;) but in all seriousness if that's what the schools are all like out there then you are gonna be doing a lot of home-schooling through the years. Especially if your kid gets into high school and they teach intelligent design in the place of evolution which happened with me. Fortunately I had read the blind watchmaker far before then, but that's another story................

[stopschoolpaddling]

28. Funny I thought this post was dead but just this morning I attached a note to another such worksheet

that my son brought home on Friday. It simply reads, "When you get a chance, could you please explain to me once again why my son has to do this. It is simply a waste of his time and busy work. I need to know if there is anything I can do to stop this nonsense. Who do I need to talk to? Also, please send me some copies of the "advanced" math work I asked you to give him (that he is doing on top of the classwork) so I can see if that is any closer to his level of understanding. Also provide me with number of hours doing math below his level and number of hours doing math appropriate to his understanding (if it indeed is). Sincerely, xxx

[Laura902]

29. I'm guessing your the only parent in that school who wants their child

to do any sort of advanced thinking :shrug:

[stopschoolpaddling]

30. This is the sticks, so if you are an outsider you don't get in the loop even though

I suspect there isn't much of one here. Perhaps, people are too busy just trying to survive to think about education. This is a very poor area. If anything they are much more concerned about keeping the kids in line and under control than with school work. Other than that, I doubt very many of them have much of an education themselves, but then neither do I so that's no excuse.

[AdHocSolver]

31. Basicly, to teach your child subservience to authority.

For the corporate, bureaucratic world to function smoothly, each cog must act immediately as ordered by the "boss", no matter how stupid, counterproductive, useless, or immoral the action demanded.

Even many of the "better" schools have dumbed down curriculums to ensure that the student never gets the idea that they have mastered an academic subject. The student must be indoctrinated to the idea that any satisfaction gained in learning a subject only be derived by gaining the approval of the teacher-boss.

I recommend that you read John Holt's books: "How Children Fail", and "How Children Learn". Another good book is "Why Johnny Can't Read: and What You Can Do About It" by Rudolph Flesch.

There are the books of teacher John Taylor Gatto including the titles "Dumbing us down : the hidden curriculum of compulsory schooling" and "The underground history of American education : a schoolteacher's intimate investigation into the prison of modern schooling", among others.

These books will answer your questions. Whether they will help you solve the problem, I cannot say. I will say that many children went through that kind of schooling and survived it well enough, including me.

What I would recommend is that you help your child survive the system by not making him a target as a "troublemaker", and at the same time, encourage him to enjoy mastering a subject without needing approval by authority figures.