How about a sales tax exemption for teachers?

[proud2BlibKansan]

Most people who don't teach don't understand that the first cut made when school funding is reduced is classroom supplies. So teachers have to buy their own supplies. I haven't had a supply budget in years. Everything on my desk - pens, pencils, paper, paper clips, tape, stapler, markers - I paid for myself.

And I buy the stuff my kids need as well. Pencils, notebooks, crayons, colored pencils. I can't remember the last time I went to a store and didn't walk out without pencils.

A month ago, I got a box at school full of notebooks and pencils. I thought I had died and gone to heaven. It was an order I had placed over a year ago and gave up on. It got lost in the district bureaucracy and somehow finally found its way to me:)

If states are going to cut our school budgets, meaning even more teachers will be buying pencils every time they go in a store, why should we have to pay sales tax? It's the least the state can do. In my state, farmers don't have to pay sales tax. And the farmers in Kansas are among the wealthiest farmers in the country. We're the breadbasket. I lost track of how many farmers have discovered natural gas and oil on their land. So we aren't talking about a group of poor farmers who need a break on sales tax so they can afford to feed their families. But they get that sales tax exemption!

We used to be able to get a copy of the sales tax exemption certificate from the school office and use it. I even had principals who handed it out at the beginning of the year. Then they changed the law so now you have to use a school credit card or check to get the sales tax exemption.

So today I wrote to the reps I know and asked for a sales tax exemption. For teachers. We deserve it. You all should contact your reps too :)

[hatesthegop]

1. I whole heartedly agree

Fuck all the preferential treatment for Military and Cops...most of them are just a bunch of warmongigers or Nazi wannabe's anyway...help those who actually provide a service to society...TEACHERS!!!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Write your reps!

[hatesthegop]

9. I have tons of times

[Yupster]

3. The teachers where I live don't pay into social security, so

that's enough preferential treatment for me to take. Sorry Pay your taxes like everyone else.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. They also don't get to draw from it when they retire

And that sucks. Do you have any idea how many retired teachers live at the poverty level because of that stupid plan?

That's hardly preferential treatment.

If you are aware of other jobs where the employees have to buy their own supplies, I am all ears. That's why I am proposing this. I spent over $2000 out of pocket the last year I kept totaled up all my receipts. I was so sickened by that I stopped keeping track. I am sure I spend way more than that now.

[Yupster]

12. I can only speak for the Texas Teacher Retirement system

but a teacher puts in the same percentage as anyone else puts into social security.

If a teacher works 35 years and retires, and makes the same amount of money over their career as a salesman, the teacher will get a pension right about triple the salesman's, though they both put the same amount of money into their retirement systems. That is very much preferential treatment.

If a kid loses his mom or dad and gets a check from social security, we all chip in to pay that kid a check from social security -- well we all do except teachers that is since they are not part of the system. And if a kid is disabled, we all chip in to help him with an SSI check -- all of us except teachers that is. Again, preferetial treatment.

You think doctors might like to carve themselves out of social security and just set up their own system?

What about stock brokers?

Of course they don't have that right.

Only teachers do, because they get preferential treatment.

And by the way, many people buy materials for work, not just teachers.

And I taught in the public schools for ten years.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. But teachers fund their own retirement system

How is it preferential treatment when it's THEIR contributions that fund their retirement? And why is the the teachers' fault that the salesmen don't have better retirement? That doesn't make any sense.

And it definitely doesn't work that way in many states. Retired teachers are poor if they don't get SS. I know more than a few.

I pay SS. My retirement system chose not to opt out and we are one of only two in our state. Not paying into SS is just nuts. I know lots of teachers who work other jobs just so they are paying into SS, but it isn't much.

[Yupster]

21. You don't think that doctors or lawyers

would love to have their own funded retirement systems?

They can't. For them it's mandatory to contribute to social security. Only many teachers can have their own systems instead of social security The reason for this seemingly crazy idea is that teachers are treated preferentially by this law.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

Social security benefits are figured on what is called a "Bendpoints" formula which is incredibly progressive.

The idea is that you get lots of social security credit for the first $ 6,000 you make each year. But you get less credit for the next $ 10,000 and almost no credit for any income above $ 50,000.

That's why a person who averages $ 60,000 a year doesn't get twice as much from social security as a person who averages $ 30,000 a year. Not even close. The system is designed to subsidize the lowest earning workers by giving less credit to the higher bendpoints.

The result of this is that middle class and upper class workers get less in order to help out the pizza delivery workers and minimum wage workers who work very hard but never make much money. Their retirement is subsidized by everyone else's social security -- everyone except teachers who are not in the system.

Then of course as I already mentioned there are the two other hands reaching into the social security pot to cover children who lost a parent or workers on disability.

I don't think anyone begrudges those hands in the pot. We might just wonder why we all share the burden except teachers.

Anyway, lawyers would love to have a system for themselves like the teacher retirement system. You get 2.3 % of your average three best pays times your years experience with no upper cap at all.

But if lawyers and doctors could set up their own systems, then who would subsidize the minimum wage earners?

We can't have that. Let's keep it the way it is. We all subsidize -- except teachers -- they get preferential treatment.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. Not all teachers opt out of SS

I pay it. Lots of teachers pay it. Sounds like you need to lobby for change in your state. I don't know any teachers who don't pay into SS who like that system. They want SS.

Not getting it is certainly not preferential treatment. That's nuts.

[tonysam]

33. In Nevada ALL full time state and local employees are forced to opt out.

It should NOT be allowed IN ANY STATE. Most people don't work their entire working career in public services.

People who teach in midlife are fucked over royally if they don't have thirty years of Social Security paid in. I have 26 or 27 years, yet my SS of a projected mere 771 dollars at 62 will be reduced because I have five years of PERS.

[Yupster]

39. No - not all teachers are in social security or out of it

Some are in and some are out.

But why should any be out?

I heard during the campaign the President saying the reason social security works is that it's universal, and I thought WTF? The largest employer in my city (the school district) is not in it. How is it universal?

And why should teachers be not in and allowed to replace social security with their own funded system? What makes them so special?

Social security is designed to be a progressive formula based system where the lowest paid workers are subsidized by everyone else.

So why can teachers say, we all need to help the poor, the kid whose dad dies, the worker with a disability -- oh, but when we said we, we meant you all -- everyone except teachers -- you see we've carved ourselves out our own much better system. -- and you doctors lawyers or stockbrokers -- don't even think of doing what we did. Someone's got to help subsidize the lowest paid workers, and it ain't gonna be us -- so you need to stay in the system.

[donco6]

51. Like doctors, lawyers and stockbrokers need to be worried about retirement.

LOL!

[exboyfil]

27. Most higher earners (over about $40K/yr) would be better

off opting out of Social Security and purchasing inflation indexed Treasuries with the contributions. They could then buy an inflation adjusted annuity at retirement that would pay more than Social Security (I ran the numbers a while ago). I think it would be pretty close to a wash for teachers given their pay structure (early in their career it would be great to build up the points but later not so great).

How sustainable are teachers peansions at current contribution/benefit levels? In our state that is becoming an issue. Their pension is inflation adjusted (only a dream for most individuals in private industry), but the state is talking about needing to put general funds into the pension to keep it whole. They are also talking about increasing the individual contribution percentage for the same reason. At some point those percentages are going to become a negative driver for recruiting new teachers.

Taking additional taxes from individuals that can only dream of an inflation adjusted defined benefit pension (or even any sort of pension from their employer) is only going to increase the level of resentment of private sector employees (the ones that pay the taxes to keep the public sector going). I personally think that state pensions should be structured more towards current pay with fewer promises for later. Those later promises have a way of going away when a fiscal crisis occurs. Teachers that participate in Social Security are essentially doubling down on the same promise (ie future contributions/taxes for retirement).

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. My pension is not a state pension

Some of us are in districts with pension funds not operated by the state. Our fund is independent and very strong. We have a board that oversees it and our employer can't touch it.

This also has nothing to do with my original point of asking for a sales tax exemption.

[Yupster]

40. I have no complaint with districts like yours

which pay into social security and also have an additional pension they fund.

My complaint is with districts that are not in social security and are thereby shirking their responsibility to contributing to the sharing of the burden of the retirements of the minimum wage earners, the kid who lost his/her mom, the wrker who's disabled.

By paying into the "universal" program of social security, you're pulling your share. Many of your fellow teachers are not.

[tonysam]

38. Bull. Take that propaganda elsewhere. 40K is no money at all. n/t

[AnneD]

32. They closed that 'loophole' years ago......

where have you been? I am in the TRS too.

/www.ssa.gov/retire2/wep-chart.htm.


I am a school nurse that had earned enough quarters of SS prior to working for the school district. I lost that when they passed the law. Teachers whose spouses receive SS cannot get survivors benefits, like any other American workers survivors. I can't get back what I put in.

The district gives me $50 to supply my clinic. Fifty bucks doesn't begin to cover my band aid costs for +/- 700 kids. Has anyone priced medical supplies lately? Lucky for me the principal has helped me out with other needs (gauze, tape, pads for girls=that alone would break me, ace wraps, thermometer covers, gloves), and this doest begin to cover the equipment-audiometer, thermometers, AED's and AED pads, pulse oximeter (to measure oxygen levels), blood pressure monitoring equipment. Teacher can get access to funds for teaching courses but school nurses generally have to reach into their own pocket for these courses which are generally required for us to retain our licesne...oh then there is license renewal fee due every 2 years along with our 20 continuing education credits. I have a good principal and they try to help me with some of the cost.

You are right, some people buy materials for work and if it is for you personally I can see paying for it. But teachers are buying for others, And if you want to get down too it-the parents should provide-it really should not be the teachers.

[tonysam]

34. FEW teachers work 35 years. Cut out the shit.

If you don't have 30 years paid into SS, the feds reduce your benefit. It's fucking theft.

I get my fucking SS reduced for having a mere FIVE years into PERS because of WEP.

[Hannah Bell]

23. wrong. most teachers pay into social security. it's just 14 states where they don't.

Alaska
Maine
California
Massachusetts
Colorado
Minnesota
Connecticut
Missouri
Illinois
Nevada
Kentucky
Ohio
Louisiana
Texas

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2001/rpt/olr/htm/2001-r-0907.htm

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. And not all teachers in MO

Teachers in KC and St Louis have a separate retirement system. They pay into SS.

[Yupster]

42. Yes - to be cleat not all teachers pay into social security

Some do and some don't.

I think all should.

I see no reason why some teachers have been excempted from sharing the burden of the social security system.

[tonysam]

35. Plus their Social Security is reduced for working in public service

if they don't have thirty or more years paying into SS--the majority of teachers, by the way, since most don't work their entire careers in teaching anymore. It's called the Windfall Elimination Provision.

[Yupster]

41. Did I ever say most teachers do not pay into social security?

I said the teachers where I live.

In fact most teachers in the two largest states, California and Texas do not pay in.

But that's kind of besides the point of whether one group of workers should be allowed to opt out of the "universal" program of social security or not.

I say no they should not. Social security is a burden sharing program where the middle paid and higher paid workers subsidize the lowest paid workers, disabled workers and children of workers who die prematurely.

Is there any reason why a group of people should be carved out of sharing this burden?

I've never understood why it should be, and can't imagine why teachers have been chosen as that preferential group?

[tonysam]

31. You don't know what you're talking about. In 15 states they don't,

but that is deceiving. If you don't have thirty years in with PERS, you don't get your full pension, and if you have paid into SS but don't have thirty years paid into it, YOU GET FUCKING SCREWED OUT OF YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY. They deduct a big chunk out of it, called WEP.

I worked for my goddamned Social Security and paid into it, yet because I get a measly five years into PERS for less than 500 a month--IF I wait until I am 65 to collect--it's fucking reduced.

Next time post something you know something about.

[Yupster]

43. Each state's teacher retirement system is different

I'm very familiar with the Texas plan TRS. Most states are similar.

Let's take a 60 year teacher who retires with 25 years experience and made $ 55,000 her last three years.

The formula would be 2.3 times 25 equals 57.5 % of her pay.

With your pay at $ 55,000 you'd get $ 31, 625 per year from TRS and you'd start collecting at age 60.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

If you were in a social security job and made the exact same incomes for the exact same years, you wouldn't be able to collecet anything until age 62.

Then you could collect the early reduced social security benefit of maybe $ 18,000 to $ 19,000 per year at most. (social security calculator at work).

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Clearly the TRS system is far better and of course it would be because the person in TRS has shirked the burden of helping the kid whose dad died, and shirked helping the disabled worker and shirked helping the minimum wage worker.

But that leaves more for him and isn't that what's important?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Incidently, TRS has lower paid workers in the system too, like cafeteria workers and such, but notice how the TRS benefit formula is derived? There is no bendpoint formula like social security has where the higher paid workers subsidize the lowest paid. Nope -- TRS has no ceiling on upper paid people. An adminstrator making $ 175,000 with 30 years will earn the same 69 % of his impressive pay without any adjustments. Screw the cafeteria workers. They earn 69 % of their tiny pay too.

It's interesting to me that even in their carved out system they haven't even taken care of their own poor workers while they shirk society's.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Sorry for posting something I don't know anything about. You'd think I'd know more as it's my job to run these numbers for people every day.

[mbperrin]

44. I paid into Social Security for 29 years before I began teaching. Now I

pay into the teacher retirement fund. But at retirement, I will not be able to draw one cent of Social Security. Double-dipping, they say!

BTW, most of those years were self-employed, so I paid both halves or 15% into Social Security. Can't get one penny back out.

Please explain the fairness of this to me.

[donco6]

48. They certainly pay into their state retirement program.

It's not FREE.

[napi21]

4. Why couldn't you place the order with your school admin.

and pay for it but have the order placed by the admin through the School? They do not have to pay sales tax on what they buy for use in school operations. If you do that, there wouldn't be any need to change any laws or anything.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. And wait for the bureacracy to process it?

No thanks. I bought pencils today because my kids will need them on Monday. :)

[napi21]

22. I hear ya, but if the purchases were already paid for, don't you

think they'd have a good reason to process the orders? I suspect most of the holdup was because somebody was trying to save money and hope the request would just go away. I would also think it would be possible to set up an account with some local retailers where a teacher would simply have to present a form of teacher ID for that school district and get the discounted and ntaxable items directly. After all, there would be no risk to the school admin, and they wouldln't even have to process an order!

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. We can't do that unless we use a district credit card or purchase order

They changed the regulations. Now the tax exempt letter alone is not enough. We have to prove we are spending district funds. The district gets the exemption, not the teacher.

[yodoobo]

6. teachers already get a tax credit.

Much better than a deduction.

Dollar for Dollar tax credit up to $250 for school supplies. That credit also applys to that state sales tax that is paid on the purchase.

Keep those pencils receipts and give'm to your tax person. You get 100% of those amounts back.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. I spend ten times that amount every year

I also believe that tax credit expired and was not renewed.

[yodoobo]

10. quick math

10 times that amount would be about $2,500 bucks a year.

Sales tax on $2,500 bucks would be about $250 assuming your in a high tax area with sales tax around 10%


So you're looking a sales tax exemption of about $250 bucks, which coincidently is what has been available as a tax credit up through 2009.

It was definitely available in 2009, but you might be right about it expiring in 2010, but I'm sure that Obama will extend it.

BTW, not saying its not a great idea. Just pointing out that you already have it :)

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. Didn't get it last year or the year before

Like I said, it expired. Bush wouldn't renew it. I remember because we all wrote letters asking him not to let it lapse.

[sandnsea]

14. It did not expire

If you didn't get it, you simply didn't take it. It's right on the first line of the AGI reductions, on the first page of your 1040.

[yodoobo]

15. Form 1040 - line 23

We took the deduction for 2009

definitely didn't expire for my spouse.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. My accountant said it was expired

A piddly $250 isn't going to make much difference anyway.

[yodoobo]

20. well alrighty then....

But that piddly $250 is exactly what you were asking for when you started the thread (the value of a sales tax exemption on $2500)

interesting conversion :)

[sandnsea]

13. That tax credit did not expire

Contact your local Soroptomists and Rotary and have them sponsor a program to provide kids with donated school supplies. Put a donation bin at a local grocery store. Have a magazine fundraiser go to school supplies. There are lots of ways to resolve the problem besides paying that much money yourself.

[tonysam]

37. I easily spent over a thousand a year on supplies. n/t

[RC]

16. Has any one checked up on pay raises for the administrators?

That seems to be the last thing that doesn't happen when there is a money shortage.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. Ours are all being pink slipped at the end of the year

They haven't gotten a raise in a couple years.

[WVRICK13]

28. How About No Sales Tax For Necessities

and a huge Value Added Tax (VAT) for luxuries? Let the rich pay for their excesses like they do in Europe.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. I could go along with that

But I doubt the wealthy would let that happen.

[stray cat]

36. If teachers like some of the rest of us buy supplies out of pocket for those supplies - yes

teachers are not the only workers who pay out of pocket for supplies

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. Which other workers?

[RationalAltruism]

45. I'd prefer teachers to simply receive funds from their school to buy supplies

rather than bringing in a tax exemption that covers everything. Don't get me wrong, I think teachers are horribly underpaid as is; however, reducing their costs of consumption through tax exemption doesn't seem right. Rather, increased salaries or district provided funding make more sense.

[proud2BlibKansan]

46. Well that's never going to happen - at least not in the near future

As I said classroom supplies are always eliminated when budgets are cut.

[donco6]

49. We have purchasing cards.

Every teacher has about $150 to $200 on their card. If they need other stuff, they go through the school secretary. A phone order to Staples arrives the next day.

I'm sorry, proud2be, but your district kinda sounds screwed-up.

[dsc]

52. acutally your district sounds amazing

my districts warehouse orders, ie stuff we have stored somewhere, takes a week. Staples takes a month.

[radical noodle]

50. I'd love to see you have it

Unfortunately, you'd probably just be audited all the time by the Department of Revenue in your state.

:grr:

[Modern School]

53. Sales Tax Relief for Everyone

Our budget is down to $2000 per year for 7 science teachers, and this includes office as well as lab supplies. Absolutely impossible to do labs on this. It's criminal and it's the kids who suffer.

Nevertheless, all sales taxes are regressive, taking disproportionately more out of the pockets of lower and middle class people than the rich. Abolish all sales tax! And Tax the Rich. In the middle of the great depression, the richest Americans paid over 60% income tax. Today they pay less than 40% (if they pay at all). In California, petroleum companies pay 0 royalties on the oil they dig up (and generally 0 for remediation of their messes).