Lunchroom monitor screams "shut-up" at a 1st grader! Should I do anything?

[stopschoolpaddling]

All three of my children have lunch at the same time.  One is
in the Kindergarten class and 2 are in 2nd grade.  The first
grade class is there at the same time as well.
   Yesterday, the first thing all three of my children told me
about after school was that the lunchroom monitor went up to a
1st grader who was talking and screamed "shut-up" so
loud at him that the entire lunchroom heard it.  Should I
complain?  
     I never tell my children to shut-up and I don't like it
if they say it to each other either.  A Friend of mine says I
should just blow it off, that's how it goes around here she
tells me.  It still makes me angry.  If a child said that to a
teacher at this school he would be up for a paddling?  Doesn't
seem right to me?  Any comments?
     Also, I confirmed it with another mother whose child was
also there.  My daughter said she told her teacher about it
and all her teacher had to say was, "I wasn't
there."  I think the teacher has a responsibility to
report such behavior but apparently she didn't think it was a
big enough deal.  
     I called my sister in another state and asked her what
she would do and her words to me were "I can't tell you
since that would never happen at our school."

[NYC_SKP]

1. Well, my two cents.

I taught exclusively at risk youth, half my years at juvenile hall and with many sped students.

I do not think I ever, ever, said shut up to any students. Ever.

It is terribly wrong to say this to a first grader, worse to shout it.

Now, some will think you should "report" this matter immediately to the monitor's superior.

I suggest that, while you might want to do this, you also have every right to confront speak calmly with the monitor.

Somehow these days people seem more likely to look for the supervisor of a misbehaving person rather than to address the matter more directly.

The old-school in me says that there's nothing wrong with talking to the monitor first and giving them a chance to respond.

Reporting them as a first response might have no impact, or it might bring consequences more severe than needed.

Either way, it pulls into the situation yet another person and can just make things messier.

So, my advice is to talk to the monitor about your concerns to gauge their emotional makeup.

If they are embarrassed and apologetic, maybe that conversation is enough.

If they're defensive or claim innocence while you know otherwise, then take it to their supervisor.

Good luck.

[Tippy]

2. Put the school on notice someone will be watching....Happens again go to school board

[meowomon]

6. I think this is really good advice.

No one should be told to shut up in my opinion (especially a little kid) But maybe the monitor just got blind sided by a migraine and couldn't take any more. Maybe they are really regretful. Give the person a chance to make amends and the apology could be a good "teachable moment" for the kid to learn that we all make mistakes.

[NYC_SKP]

8. "Teachable moment" Well said!

Too often we look to the system for cures rather than to one another.

Human interaction, simple face to face problem solving, is thus lost to a "system" which far too often doesn't solve the problem and may even create more problems.

:donut:

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. I don't think it's a parent's place to talk to a school employee about this

I would advise going to the principal.

If it happened in a classroom then yes, talk to the teacher. But in a lunchroom by a monitor who is probably earning less than minimum wage - take it to the principal.

[Arkansas Granny]

3. If it was me, I would make a mental note of this incident, but I don't think

I would take any action on it. It was not appropriate behavior on the part of the monitor, but there may be more to the story than you are aware of. If it had happened to your child, I would say that you should make arrangements to have a meeting about it, but since it was not your child, getting involved might blow the whole matter out of proportion. If you know the child that was yelled at, you might inform his/her parents of the situation.

[Bitwit1234]

4. If the child was out of control something should be done.

Maybe they shouldn't have walked up to the child and said shut up. They should take them into to the hall and make sure they know they are causing a problem. The problem with a lot of schools, and I know from experience is the kids are out of control and the teachers can't do anything, because of actions like this. There has to be a better way to control them. Some kids want to learn, but can't, because of the constant commotion by disruptive children, that the teacher doesn't know how to control.

[NYC_SKP]

5. This was at lunchtime, not during classtime. Slightly different standard, I think. n/t

[timeforpeace]

7. Just show up at lunchtime unannounced and check things out.

[hlthe2b]

9. I can not help but observe that someone named "stopschoolpadddling"

states that "if a child said that ("shut up") to a teacher at this school he would be up for a paddling."

What gives? I have a hard time taking your post seriously after noting THAT. :eyes:

[eShirl]

11. Maybe the school paddles and the parent is trying to stop it?

you think?

[stopschoolpaddling]

12. Just stating the facts as they are where we live.

Thankfully we will be moving out of this state come the summer
months so I won't have to deal with this absurd school
district anymore.  I have a hard time taking any educator that
still beats children seriously either.  Seems like there
should be jail cells waiting for them.
     According to my handbook, this type of behavior clearly
falls under the heading of Rule 21. Bullying  Definition:  the
intentional harassment, INTIMIDATION, HUMILIATION, defamation,
or threat or incitement of violence etc. that creates a clear
and present danger of
... a hostile educational environment for one or more
students...
     Disciplinary Action
GRADES K-2
     1st Referral- 2 days in-school suspension or CORPORAL
PUNISHMENT

Now that is straight out of their handbook! 

[hlthe2b]

13. I see.... Some things are very hard and slow to change, I guess

[eShirl]

10. If no parents say anything, how is the school supposed to know anyone has a problem with it?

[Hannah Bell]

14. gee, you seem to have a lot of trouble with your school. maybe you should put your kid in a charter

this isn't the first such anecdote from you if memory serves.

and all the helpful new people here to advise you. how nice.

yes, i think you should put your kid in a charter.

[tonysam]

15. That one is always complaining about the school.

The person needs to talk to school officials instead of trying to garner sympathy here.

[Fire1]

16. I'm with Hannah. Sounds like a 'private' or 'charter' school

would be more to their liking.

[Dinger]

21. Yup (nt)

[stopschoolpaddling]

17. Last thing I'd want is sympathy from you besides I took care of it, just called the principal

who wasn't in and left her a message to call me as soon as she had the answer to this question, " How is it even possible that a member of your school staff feels and acts like it is perfectly acceptable to scream "shut-up" at a student? Call me when you feel you can adequately explain this to me!

I heard today that two children, grade 5, were beat up by their music teacher during class this week not at our school but in our district (our district has 3 schools). Both children are in the hospital. Would you send your children to a school where something like this could happen? The teacher is in jail.

[femmocrat]

18. Do you have a link to the story about the music teacher?

Sorry, but that sounds really far-fetched.

[stopschoolpaddling]

27. It's not in the news yet here either but I will post it when the next paper comes out. It should be

in there, I would think? The woman who works at the country store just told me about it. Her sister's kids go to that school. It doesn't surprise me that it is not in the Arkansas news, not much gets out about this place. I hope it will be in the local paper. The paper comes out on Tuesday but I don't get it until Wednesday unless I go to town. Is it okay to scan it and then post it, online? I will post it in a new thread when it comes out. I do not lie and I believe the woman at the store. She has two children at our school and has absolutely no reason to make something like this up either.

[donco6]

33. I'll be checking back for it.

So far, nothing on any news outlet anywhere. Odd. Extremely odd.

[stopschoolpaddling]

40. Now would be the time to check back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[donco6]

41. Oh good - whatcha got?

Did it show up in the news? Got a link for it?

[mzteris]

42. here ya go.

http://www.todaysthv.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=101406

[donco6]

44. I take it he won't be volunteering any more.

What a jerk.

[mzteris]

45. not the only one...

NOT YOU! but some of the posts on this subject have been - ah - quite "jerky" - if you know what I mean. . .

[donco6]

46. I apologized to ssp.

She was right about the incident, and I shouldn't have pushed it quite so far.

[mzteris]

47. good - you're usually a class act.

We all make mistakes and sometimes say the wrong thing. It gets heated and then next day we realize we probably stuck our foot in our mouth! It's good to own up to mistakes. It's the adult thing to do.


Did you get my post about your meeting? Seriously I'd love to know how it went.

Also - I've been tossing your "name" around on DU a lot lately. I told them to check your posts for how a school district should implement change.

[donco6]

48. Oh yes, I'll have to update that thread.

Actually it was kinda pathetic after it was all over. Just a grandstanding thing, and only a few people got to ask questions and THEY were picked beforehand. I'd have sworn it was a Bush event, it was so staged.

[mzteris]

49. well that sucks. . .

I was hoping you'd get to "show off" your district!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. And which newspaper or TV station covered that story?

If a teacher beat kids up so badly they are hospitalized it would have been the lead story on CNN or at least on FOX.

[teacher gal]

23. I googled and found it!!

Googled 'music teacher puts two children in hospital' and found a link right at the top that says:

Betty Allen dies at 82; mezzo-soprano and music teacher - Los ...

Seriously, Stoppaddling, if this really occurred, it's terrible.

But getting back to your original post about a 1st grader being yelled at to "shut up"....I confess that one time, in twelve years of teaching special needs children, exhausted and at my wits end, I told a particularly dear but supremely challenging 2nd grade child to SHUT UP. I regretted it immediately and I regretted it deeply. I apologized to the entire class as well as the child, saying what I did was wrong and asking him to forgive me. He hugged me. This has been mere months ago. When I was transferred to another school in November due to the budget crisis, he drew a picture and wrote a letter which I will forever treasure. I truly miss him.

Teachers are not angels. They are human and children need us to admit it when we are wrong. It was a good lesson for me and a good lesson for them. And children are so wonderfully forgiving. Can you imagine what this world would be like if we grownups were as forgiving as little children are?

[mzteris]

24. could you put up the link?

I can't find a reference to it anywhere.

[Hannah Bell]

26. because there isn't a link. you must have missed the "but seriously"

blinded by your obsessive quest to ferret out all reports of public school misdeeds while giving a big pass to similar goings-on at charters.

[femmocrat]

28. I googled it too, and could only find this one:

An 8-year-old student threw a book which hit a teacher in the face this morning at Culver Elementary School, said Marsha Jackson, Evansville Vanderburgh School Corp. spokeswoman.

The incident happened around 11:30 a.m.

Both the teacher and the student were taken by ambulance to a hospital, Jackson said. She said it was not known if the teacher's nose was broken. It was not known whether the student was injured.

Two ambulances and a police car responded to the school.

The incident prompted school officials to put the school in what Jackson called a secure mode, meaning that teachers continued their lessons but classroom doors were locked.

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2010/feb/10/teacher-injured-culver-elementary-school/

[mzteris]

43. this one.

http://www.todaysthv.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=101406


Just making sure everyone that comes on here knows the truth - which is all I ever want to do. Full disclosure, two sides and all that. . . that's what I'm all about.

[donco6]

22. A teacher put two kids in the hospital and it's not in the news anywhere?

Odd.

[mzteris]

39. I think I found what she was talking about:

http://www.todaysthv.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=101406&catid=2

[Hannah Bell]

50. VOLUNTEER. AND THE KIDS ARE NOT IN THE HOSPITAL.

when are you going to apologize?

[Hannah Bell]

25. gee, i can't find that in the news either. not in the national news, not in the arkansas news.

seems like a teacher putting two kids in the hospital would make national news.

you're in a three-school district, you say? and it has a 5th grade music teacher?

[soleiri]

30. I did a little research

I found a district with three schools, two of which are elementary.
I won't post the names, I won't further defame this woman's name.
Instead, I'll patiently wait until Wednesday when the paper comes out.


Can't wait.

Is it Wednesday, yet?

[teacher gal]

31. Stopschoolpaddling

I will patiently wait until Wednesday as well. Ever since I posted my comment to your thread last night it has been bothering me. I'm sorry I tried to shame you.

I have no way of knowing the whole story but regardless of the circumstances, if a teacher put two children in the hospital, it is right that she is in jail. And BTW, I don't doubt that you told us the truth about what you were told in the store. Just didn't know if what you were told was correct.

Teachers and schools are overwhelmed and under siege and I believe that is a primary reason for our being so defensive. However, that is no excuse (ever) for a teacher to abuse a child, verbally or otherwise. And it is no excuse for my smart-alecky reply.

Again, I am sorry.

I told you about an experience with one of my 2nd graders that occurred recently. I had another experience many years ago when I was the child. I was a 3rd grader and my PE teacher hurt me deeply by cutting me down on several occasions. But there was one particular remark she made that was so uncalled for and so unkind that I've never ever forgotten it. I've forgiven but it still stings to this day when I think about it. You are right. There is no excuse for abusing and being unkind to a child. It really, really matters.

[stopschoolpaddling]

34. Thank you

Honestly, I've tried to figure out why I find corporal punishment so absolutely abhorrent. I wasn't abused as a child probably anymore than anyone else was. (Not sure if that makes sense but I believe we were a semi-normal family, and we didn't get spanked too often that I can remember)But anyway for some reason I just can't fathom it. When I found out about it here about a month after my two oldest had started school here (my mother read in the handbook. I don't think I even knew what the term corporal punishment meant then)I just wrote a note to the school saying I didn't allow it for my children and left it at that.
But then when my little guy, started Kindergarten and came home that week telling me he was scared of his teacher that she "screamed all the time" and then later he told me she had brought this paddle into the classroom and showed it to all the students and told them that it could be used on them if they didn't behave, I just completely lost it. (Nicki was on the front porch crying and pleading with me " Mommy please! Mommy please, don't make me go back there!" I swear I've never been so angry in my entire life. What you have to know is all my children are sweet and wouldn't dream of getting in trouble at school but my little guy is the sweetest one of all and it would give him a heart attack if he was doing something wrong and someone he didn't even know screamed at him. (Just to give you a visual of him, he was at basketball practice and it was his turn in line to shoot and the coach said, "Okay go to the back of the line" and he turned to go to the back of the line just like she said. Only she wasn't talking to him and she went after him to tell him so and he came back smiling and shot his ball.)
Anyway, to make a long story shorter since the school thought the teacher had done nothing wrong I immediately put my kids in another school. But I'm not happy with them either because they have corporal punishment there too and I just cannot stand the thought of a child having to bend over and be hit with this paddle. (I have seen one and it doesn't look like a ping pong paddle) I can just picture it in my mind and it's like I can feel the humiliation of it so strongly that it's enough to make me cry (I'm crying right now) And then the hate comes for anyone who could purposely and methodically carry out such an act.
So I can go to my children's school and I can see their principal and I literally feel like vomiting. I feel like I'm in the presense of evil which is weird because I don't even believe in evil or the devil or whatever but knowing that this is happening to childen in the same school my children are in is just too much for me to take. I just can't handle it. And nobody even thinks it's a big deal but me, atleast no one around here. It is just perfectly normal like putting a load of laundry in the washer.
Because I loathe the people in these schools that do this I will pick on any little thing that I see that adds up to disrespecting a child.
So anyway that's my story and because of that I have to sell my house and give up the farm and the animals and move. What choice do I have if I want to be at peace?

[teacher gal]

35. No

Thank YOU. I am sorry I was so callous! Thank you for sharing this. I have to go to bed but I want to come back to this discussion later if it's alright with you.

[stopschoolpaddling]

37. Sure, I'd like that.

There are no other schools here, no charters, no private school (if I could afford that), my only option to stay here would be to home school but I don't know how in the world I could pull that off with a 6, 7, and 8 year old. I'd have to be superwoman or supermom or both and I don't even have a college education!

[mzteris]

38. it's not as scary as you think.

There are plenty of supports available - even in just online - to help you get started.

Here's a link to page that has names of support groups. I wasn't sure which was closest to you, nor what "flavor" of hs'er you might want to be. There are probably a preponderance of "religious" hs'ers, but it looks there are some others available - even Pagan! And, sometimes even the "religious" ones are very liberal and open minded. Just stay away from the fundies and you'll do alright.

Seriously, from the sounds of the schools they're in, they would be much better off at home.

[Maat]

52. You can do it.

You can PM me or you have my email if you need any encouragement. There are all sorts of resources out there.

[Harmony27]

29. It's everyone's responsibility

In my opinion, you should go in and speak with the principal about creating a lunch environment where kids are not crowded into a lunch facility where they have a limited amount of time to eat and where they are supervised by trained employees such as the principal or the vice principal. Isn't it part of administrations duties to supervise kids during their lunch period? Yes, I think it is! Also, the lunchroom monitor should not have screamed at your child or any other child. Perhaps the principal should have her staff be trained on student management techniques that do not include violence.

There are many ways this problem can be solved. It is up to the principal to overlook how a school community treats our children and modify things accordingly.

Best of luck!

[femmocrat]

32. In what fantasy district do administrators supervise lunch duty?

Once in awhile they might walk through to buy their lunch, but I have never seen one "supervise" lunch. Or breakfast. Or recess. That is what teachers are for (in addition to their many other duties).

Sometimes they poke their heads out of the office for bus duty. Occasionally they even walk around the halls!

[stopschoolpaddling]

36. oops this was supposed to be in response to another message so I'm putting it there.

[mainstreetonce]

51. What I would do

I am a retired educator.
We used to have a teacher aide who said "shut up" all the time. I sat the kids down and had a talk with them. I said it is a rude expression and you shouldn't use it, but she is responsible for your safety and she cares about you. All kids have heard their parents say things that are uncalled for. They understand adults can lose it sometimes.
I would tell the lunch worker that you had a talk with the kids and all agree that "shut up" is very rude and please don't use it anymore.
There are too many real problems in schools. Take this one lightly.