Okay, I found something on the incident...Man arrested at School

[stopschoolpaddling]

This is a community forum for our area. Apparently, I'm not the only one who heard about it but the complete facts are not out yet. Follow the link below to see what other's are saying.
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/mountain-view-ar/TNBI1CHV08BIQHAV4

I'm not sure how to make a link you can just click on but this is the place I found it at. Maybe someone who knows how can put up a link.

[wtmusic]

1. Your link is fine.

Let's hope it's not as serious as it sounds.

[stopschoolpaddling]

2. Yes, hopefully it's not as bad as the story I was told

even as much as I didn't want to look like I was lying, I wished it wasn't true because I absolutely would rather look like a liar than have any children be hurt by anyone.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. Why no MSM coverage?

Anyone can put anything on a blog. That's not evidence.

[soleiri]

4. I was thinking the same

But I'll wait until Wednesday.

Also, there are more than 3 schools in the Mountain View school district.
None of the elementary schools has a male music teacher.

[tonysam]

5. It smells like b.s.

The local media would be on this like flies to shit. They don't cover up for school districts; hell, they are quick to tar and feather teachers and print their names because, after all, they are guilty until proven innocent.

[stopschoolpaddling]

7. You obviously have never touched down in Stone County Arkansas!

[stopschoolpaddling]

8. Please list the name of the schools if you know so much.

From what I know there is Timbo, Rural Specials and Mountain View. Perhaps Mountain View has an alternative school, that would make four. I bet they do, they need a place to send all those unruly kids that the paddle isn't straightening up.

[soleiri]

11. I get it

You're counting the mountain view high school, middle school and elementary schools as the same school.
I counted them as separate, because they have different principals.
Same for Timbo and Rural Specials, I assume.

Regardless, none of them have male music teachers teaching at the elementary level.

It is still a music teacher, right?

[stopschoolpaddling]

12. Yes but I've now heard it was a music teacher that was

brought in to conduct some special lessons. It then may not have been a regular music teacher. I know Timbo only has one principle (a royal paddle wielding bitch if you ask me) but I don't know about the others just that they are all in one building which I consider "one" school.
Another friend of mine says that she heard the teacher was arrested on charges of disorderly conduct for smashing a guitar and basically freaking out. As I've said I wasn't there and only know what I've heard and seen from this blog as it were. Perhaps I am naive to believe everything I hear. I certainly hope so. I'm sure that there will be something in the paper and hopefully it won't be nearly as bad as everyone (according to blog) around here thinks. But still, why am I not surprised when it comes to these schools?

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. We don't even know it was a teacher

I have had more than one parent come to school and beat the shit out of their child for some misbehavior at school.

[femmocrat]

16. He was NOT a teacher!

copied from one of the bloggers:

"He's a guitar instructor but not a regular classroom teacher. I was told volunteer but also told this morning that he's part of a grassroots program and I haven't a clue as to what that means. Since the class is a music class, it was probably mixed grades. I supposed more 'accurate' details will come out in the paper this week."

"grassroots program" could mean visiting artists who come to the schools to offer enrichment opportunities. We don't even know if he had clearances.

[stopschoolpaddling]

18. Okay, but the school hired him and what difference does that make to children who were assaulted?

The school brought the man/teacher in and they are responsible for what he did. Period.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. The man is responsible for what he did.

The school is now responsible for firing him.

[stopschoolpaddling]

33. No, the school will now be held responsible for hiring him and putting children in danger!!!

[mzteris]

35. so she finally admits - sortof - that she's seen the proof . . .

Now where's that apology???

Don't hold your breath! Some people can dish it out, but .. . . well you know the rest.

[Hannah Bell]

59. the story as reported was false. some people are such chickens they use the "ignore" button to block

out any challenge to their false reports.

[Hannah Bell]

56. the school didn't "hire" him. he was a volunteer. i don't know why you don't get it.

[Hannah Bell]

46. the school didn't "hire" him if he was a volunteer, or part of a "grassroots program".

and as you don't know what he was, or who exactly brought him in, you have no idea who is responsible.

[FBaggins]

66. More on the "grassroots program"

Mountain View began a program called "Music Roots" several years ago. The schools (elementary through HS) partner with local music teachers to introduce students to the traditional music of the area (mountain folk music).

It's part of the school budget and the instructors are paid.

[Hannah Bell]

76. if so, where's your - link?

oh, here's one:

Ozark Folk Center State Park

"The Ozark Folk Center State Park at Mountain View (Stone County) may be the only state park in Arkansas dedicated to the preservation and perpetuation of Southern mountain folkways and traditions.

A year after the park opened, a support group known as the “Committee of 100” was created by educator Bessie Moore. Women from each of the state’s seventy-five counties, plus twenty five at-large members, volunteer each year to support and raise funds FOR EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS OF THE CENTER. THE COMMITTEE ESTABLISHED THE MUSIC ROOTS PROGRAM FOR YOUNGSTERS, A HERB GARDEN, the park’s apprenticeship in crafts and music program, and the Ozark Cultural Resource Center (OCRC), which archived well over 100,000 items."

http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/encyclopedia/entry-detail.aspx?entryID=1245.

[FBaggins]

85. Isn't that odd...

...you have an amazing knack for asserting "facts" without evidence (AND accusing as liars those whose local experience contradicts them)... yet insist that you be provided with proof before any other statement can be made?

Hypocrisy doesn't sell well.

http://www.publicschoolreview.com/school_ov/school_id/4406

In 2002 MVHS partnered with local musicians to create the "Music Roots" program as a way to introduce students to the traditional mountain folk music and instruments common in the area.

If you Google the minutes from the local school board's meetings, you can see the funds for the program unanimously approved each year.

[Hannah Bell]

95. why don't you link those minutes, baggins?

[FBaggins]

97. Because I credit you with being able to Google as well as my 4th grader

Sorry if that was an overestimation on my part.

Nah... I think I'm tired of you making up your own facts and then accusing others of lying if they don't have a link... and then failing to admit your error (and childish behavior) when shown that you were wrong.

At this point I would feel like I was enabling. :P

[Hannah Bell]

98. no link.

[FBaggins]

99. And why should I?

What difference would it make? Would you suddenly have the maturity to admit that you were wrong that you have so far (and frequently) lacked? Or
would you just move on and pretend it never happened?

What links did you provide to back up your (false) claims while accusing others of
lying?

[Hannah Bell]

100. no link.

[FBaggins]

101. Better than "no integrity"

Just trying to teach you to fish HB. This is an education forum after all. :)

I already gave you everything you need.

1) Go to Google.
2) Type "mountain view school district" "board minutes" "music roots program"
3) Set down ridiculouslyoverinflatedwithoutreason ego.
4) Click search

It's the only set of hits.

I know you can do it! (see the positive reinforcement?) If it doesn't work, don't panic... just keep repeating step three until you get it right. :) It's ok... it may take some practice.

If only I could make you drink. It would keep you from making such a fool of yourself. Ok... maybe not... but it can help.

[Hannah Bell]

102. no link. you made the assertion, you give the link. really, baggins, i don't care what tag teamers

opinion of me is.

you or your friend of no integrity.

[FBaggins]

104. Sorry.

You're not worth it.

But now everyone can see you for what you are.

Have a nice day,

[Hannah Bell]

108. no link.

[stopschoolpaddling]

6. What ? You think I made up the blog? Is that what you are implying?

Please, go ahead, come right out with it and say what you mean if you can muster up a way to do that!

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. Oh good grief

Someone wrote this on a blog. I have no idea who it was. But that doesn't prove the incident really happened.

Here's proof: I am now going to claim that Dinger smokes cigars in her classroom every day at lunchtime. For shame, Dinger!!

[mzteris]

23. yeah - cause you created an account in 2008

just for the very purpose of "pulling one over" on the Education forum of DU.

:eyes:

[mzteris]

13. is this what you're referring to?

http://www.todaysthv.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=101406

A volunteer instructor at Mountain View Elementary School has been arrested for assaulting some students on Thursday.


Alfred Tellone, 59, was charged with 4 counts of second degree battery.

Tellone, a volunteer instructor of banjo and guitar, was accused of assault by 4 students - a 10-year-old, two 11-year-olds and a 14-year-old. Chief of Police Steve Brondhaver said that 2 students had visible signs of being struck.

Tellone admitted to assaulting the children on Friday, saying he "lost his temper." He has no prior criminal history.

Tellone is being held on a $10,000 bond. The students are receiving counseling from the school district.


edit to add: hey, stopaddling - you should repost this as it seems half the "teachers" on here have me on ignore. I wonder if any will apologize for "questioning your veracity".

[soleiri]

14. Looks like it.

And I apologize to stopschoolpaddling for doubting the story.

But he was a volunteer, without a criminal record.
He wasn't a real teacher.
Most likely he was a local musician.

I'm not sure if the school could have done anything in advance,
I'm sure they don't want to discourage volunteers.
But they should never be left alone with the students without a real credentialed teacher present.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. So you are believing a blog post?

Don't you wonder why this is the only place it is reported?

[mzteris]

21. it's not - check the link to the TV station!

http://www.todaysthv.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=101406

[soleiri]

25. The alternative

is thinking that stopschoolpaddling is purposely maligning an innocent man's reputation.
I can't think that someone would do that in order to further a lie on DU.
That would be deplorable.
I can believe that a person could snap, but I can't believe that someone would go so far as to lie about an incident like this.
I'm sure that there will be news reports (outside of blogs) on Wednesday and the school will release some sort of statement.

[mzteris]

27. check the link to the TV station report.

You wouldn't believe what SOME PEOPLE would "stoop to" here on DU. It's sad, really.

http://www.todaysthv.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=101406

[soleiri]

36. umm.

I replied to your link already.

[mzteris]

38. oops. I have a bad habit of replying

without looking to see who's doing the posting.

Sorry for the scold! You were the first to actually apologize, weren't you?

Oh that's right - I think you're the ONLY one to apologize!

[Hannah Bell]

47. apologize for what? It wasn't a TEACHER, IT WAS A VOLUNTEER.

and the kids AREN'T IN THE HOSPITAL.


I don't see you or the poster apologizing for spreading the false report that a teacher put two kids in the hospital.

If volunteers are in the classroom "teaching" music, it's because they don't have the funds to pay a certified, vetted teacher experienced enough to control a classroom without throwing things.

Maybe because fundie charter schools & home schools in arkansas are taking big chunks of the state ed budget.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. It's hard to believe the school hasn't released a statement already n/t

[stopschoolpaddling]

34. And why would they do that? To draw attention to how incompetent they are?

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. Because it's the right thing to do

It's also smart from a legal perspective.

[stopschoolpaddling]

42. If they were doing the right thing they would not be beating children with a wooden instrument and

if they were smart they would not be screaming at childen and telling them to shut up when they have children who belong to a native californian attending their school. Apparently they are neither and that would explain why I had to insist on 3 different occasions that my son be given math problems harder than 9+9=18 when he has no trouble adding 128+196=324 in his head.

[Hannah Bell]

51. No one beat anyone with a wooden instrument in the case you brought up.

there are charter schools in mountain home, maybe you should try one.

[FBaggins]

83. A 4th grader could have figured out by now

that this poster lives in a district where the schools WILL hit a child. I assume that (as most teachers), you would similarly oppose this (ineffective) abuse. This may be the totality of her experience with public education, yet you seem to respond to her posts as if they are an attack on schools everywhere.

Can you explain why this is? It's as illogical as posting stories about individual teachers (public or charter) and implying that they speak to a greater reality (whether you post it or a charter supporter does).

Do you believe that there are no such schools anywhere in the nation? Would you not fight shoulder to shoulder with her if you found one?

[mzteris]

88. you think this one would know since they stalk my every post

I posted this the other day:

here the states stand on corporal punishment:
Alabama--Legal
Arizona--Legal
Arkansas--Legal
Colorado--Legal
Florida--Legal
Georgia--Legal
Idaho--Legal
Indiana--Legal
Kansas--Legal
Kentucky--Legal
Louisiana--Legal
Mississippi--Legal
Missouri--Legal
North Carolina--Legal
North Dakota--Illegal
Ohio--Legal
Oklahoma--Legal
South Carolina--Legal
Tennessee--Legal
Texas--Legal
Wyoming--Legal


**********

TIME: Corporal Punishment in U.S. Schools
By M.J. Stephey Wednesday, Aug. 12, 2009

It seems like a scene from Oliver Twist — a young pupil being beaten by a 300-lb man wielding an inch-thick wooden paddle — but according to a new report by Human Rights Watch and the American Civil Liberties Union, nearly a quarter of a million children were subjected to corporal punishment in public schools in the U.S. during the 2006-2007 academic year.

...Texas paddles the most students in the nation, as well as the most students with disabilities ... The total number of students, with and without disabilities, who were subjected to corporal punishment in the 2006-2007 school year was 223,190. ... Nationwide, students with disabilities receive corporal punishment at disproportionately high rates. In Tennessee, for example, students with disabilities are paddled at more than twice the rate of the general student population. ... Students with autism are particularly likely to be punished for behaviors common to their condition, stemming from difficulties with appropriate social behavior. ... Anna M., whose son with autism was physically punished repeatedly when he was seven years old, noted, "The teacher felt he was doing some stuff on purpose. If you met him, you wouldn't know he was autistic straight away. People thought we were making an excuse for him.' "

. . . On why corporal punishment is still condoned: "Educators, who face the difficult task of maintaining order in the classroom, may resort to corporal punishment because it is quick to administer, or because the school lacks resources and training for alternative methods of discipline. One teacher pointed out that corporal punishment can be considered 'cost-effective. It's free, basically. You don't have to be organized. All you need is a paddle.' Logistical or financial obstacles may prevent teachers from using other methods of discipline. One 18-year-old student who was critical of the use of corporal punishment in his rural school district stated that 'we couldn't have after school detention. There was no busing. Kids who got detention would have to find another way home.' "

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1915820,...

[stopschoolpaddling]

15. Okay then "WOW" thank you mzteris. I guess that would be it.

honestly I was wondering if maybe it wasn't true after all. I will repost it but then I don't seem to have earned anyone's respect on here either. I am happy to join you on "half the "teachers" on here have me on ignore" and proud to be there with you. Yes I will repost it. Thank you, let's keep in touch. I'm no one special but I'm someone.

[mzteris]

17. of course you're someone special -

we all are! Even the ones I disagree with! lol.

I believe in choice and diversity. Some people don't. It's pretty simple actually. You choose the option that works best for you and yours. Did you see my post to you in another thread about homeschooling? Also a very good choice for some kids.

I think these "teachers" get very defensive when you say you want another choice - like homeschooling. They take offense that "we" think that "just parents" can "teach" kids when they've going to school XX number of years to be a teacher and have X years of experience. It's like you're questioning them - personally - and their ability. If my kid were in their class, then maybe I could somewhat understand that, but I don't live anywhere near most of them! Maybe if my child had've had them as a teacher, we wouldn't have chosen to homeschool. Just like if the traditional school choice options had included a Spanish immersion program, I probably would've chosen that!

I get so tired of being accused of being "anti-teacher" and "anti-union" and "anti-traditional school" - when nothing could be further from the truth. The fact that I spend so much time defending MY CHOICES - which they constantly insult and berate, doesn't mean I DISLIKE them personally, nor their choices. If they had've been in MY position, they may have possibly made the same choices I did. Who knows? They'll say they wouldn't, but then again, it's always easier to suppose what you would do in a given situation when you're not actually IN it. Personal choice is just that - PERSONAL. They have no idea of what living my life is like - nor what my kids are like and their needs - and wtf are they to tell me that my "choices" are wrong? They don't know. They can never know.

I have tried very hard to be civil in my discourse. Yeah, a few times it's gotten a bit heated - and one in particular was extremely nasty and said some absolutely horrible things about me. It's unbelievable that rational people - TEACHERS - can't engage in discourse without name calling and other childish behaviours. I have always wanted to have logical discussions about ISSUES.

I'm sure most of them are good teachers and good people who let their emotions and the anonymity of the internet intrude upon their good judgement. They would never behave that way in person, why would they on this board?

[stopschoolpaddling]

19. Yes, I saw your post to me and read it.

I did three weeks of reading everything from "Homeschool for Dummies" to "Every Resourse you will ever need to Homeschool." I don't know if I'm worried about if I can do it or If I want to do it? And that is a terrible thing to ask yourself. I am trying to write a book and I am hoping that when and if it ever gets done it will bring with it all the answers that me and my children will ever need to live a meaningful and happy life. But I should write you privately because this is a harsh environment for anyone who still wants to believe.

[mzteris]

22. Pm me if you want.

and/or pay a visit to the homeschooling group here on DU.

[Hannah Bell]

52. charters know how to get kids to behave: MACE 'EM.

not that i expect little "i got you on ignore" to acknowledge *that* report.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. You have to wonder

I have no idea if half the teachers really do have her on ignore and I really don't care. She earned the ignore I gave her and that's the only ignore I know about.

At any rate, if half the teachers here are ignoring her you have to wonder why she still posts here.

And yes as soon as you have something other than a blog post I hope you do post the link. If anyone in any school is hurting kids badly enough to put them in a hospital, we all need to condemn that.

[mzteris]

26. to correct the bile being spewed

by some people in here.

I have always liked to make sure people get all sides of a story/issue.

Being objective should be something that teachers aspire to, like critical thinking skills, ya know?

Or maybe you don't. :(

I didn't "earn that ignore" - you made some half-cocked suppositions that were totally incorrect. The fact that what I did post was coped to by a poster isn't MY fault. Not to mention the fact that turned out to prove that at least one someones in here is most assuredlly NOT "teacher" material and - well, if you still maintain they're "innocent" - I've got a some beachfront property in Arizona to sell you.

You were vile and vicious in your accusations to me - and you know good and damn well it was false when you made them. Though it does make one wonder why you're so "defensive"?

[Hannah Bell]

48. why don't you & the poster "objectively" apologize for spreading the FALSE REPORT that a TEACHER PUT

TWO KIDS IN THE HOSPITAL?

There was no teacher, & no kids in the hospital.

Speaking of vile & vicious.

[FBaggins]

82. For someone who gets offended when people spout off with insufficient evidence...

... You sure seem to do it often enough... but insist that others take an unbalanced share of the blame for any errors.

[stopschoolpaddling]

28. I am not on ignore so I have no idea what you are talking about.

The link is there. Sometimes you just need to face reality and admit you were wrong. It comes easy for me. If it comes hard to you then I suggest that you go in for some philosophical counseling to get yourself back on track after all the link is there and

"the crowd is untruth"---Soren Kierkegaard

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. A link to a blog

There are also blogs that claim President Obama was born in Kenya.

[mzteris]

32. you might not can "see" my posts

but you sure as damn well can see HER thread about the subject.

What's the problem, can't admit you were wrong?

[Hannah Bell]

49. NO TEACHER. NO KIDS IN HOSPITAL. YOU & THE POSTER WERE WRONG.

Why do you continue to pretend otherwise?

[Hannah Bell]

44. a VOLUNTEER. Not a TEACHER.

[tonysam]

39. It's a "volunteer" instructor being accused--not a regular teacher.

Nice try, though.

[soleiri]

40. It really does point to the need

of qualified credentialed teachers in the classroom, doesn't it?

[mzteris]

41. does that make a difference who beat them?

Obviously she didn't know. She heard it as a "teacher" - which he was in that he was "teaching music". . . Htf was she supposed to know it was a "volunteer" and not a "regular teacher".

Speaking of "nice try" - way to go on being an adult and admitting you were wrong! But then you seem to have an on-going problem admitting culpability, don't you?

[Hannah Bell]

45. Nice try because it WASN'T A TEACHER, AS REPORTED. Perhaps you're unable to understand the sign-

ificance, as your existence seems to revolve around tracking down & blowing up all instances of malfeasance in the public schools while doggedly ignoring same in charter schools.

[FBaggins]

54. There IS NO "significance" to understand.

It's significant to you because you're a teacher so you (understandably, but irrationally) see any article about a teacher doing something "bad" as an attack on you.

To a parent it's STILL sending their kid to a place that's supposed to be safe and finding out that the people responsible for protecting them fell down on the job.

It doesn't matter whether it was a teacher, or an sub, or an electrician just in the school for a day fixing some wiring. We have an obligation to ensure the safety of the kids in our care.

You (just as understandably but also irrationally) seem to also see similar misconduct in an environment that you don't support as representing proof of a failure of design... while simultaneously turning a blind eye to it if you think it reflects poorly on you. When it is this irrationality that does that.

[Hannah Bell]

58. i'm not a teacher, as i've repeatedly told you & as you can confirm from my posting history, where i

discuss being a dietitian.

what i "see" is a group of posters who put up articles about public school malfeasance & ignore & excuse same in charter schools.

what i see in this case is someone who reported something she heard as rumor as fact. A "teacher" (no, a volunteer) "beat" (no, apparently threw a cell phone) at students & put them "in the hospital" (apparently not, as the article reports only that they "had marks consistent" with being hit).

then what i see is one particular poster demanding everyone who doubted the rumor as reported "apologize" when the poster reported false information.

& what i see is you getting snarky when i call her on it.

like i said, nice tag team.

[FBaggins]

61. Oh... alrighty then... allow me to revise and extend my remarks.

Then it was irrational without being understandable. :-)

what i "see" is a group of posters who put up articles about public school malfeasance & ignore & excuse same in charter schools.

While you post five times as many from charter schools while ignoring and excusing the same in public schools.

I have called both sides on that irrelevant (and childish) behavior. You miraculously only see it when I post it to you and (mistakenly) assume that I'm some big charter advocate. The ONLY time I can remember saying anything in favor of a charter was on a thread where the existing public school teachers at a "failing" school were bidding to run a charter (essentially getting rid of the principal but keeping all the teachers and unshackling them to actually teach).

what i see in this case is someone who reported something she heard as rumor as fact. A "teacher" (no, a volunteer)

A volunteer teacher. Not that the distinction makes the slightest bit of difference.

"beat" (no, apparently threw a cell phone)

Really? You get charged with second degree assault on four kids (marking two of them) with a cell phone? Must have been quite the phone. And again... it doesn't make much difference. Is this suddenly ok behavior in your kids' school?

at students & put them "in the hospital" (apparently not, as the article reports only that they "had marks consistent" with being hit).

Your assumptions are not the same thing as fact. If police report a visible injury in a case like this, it's not uncommon for the kids to be taken to a hospital for an immediate evaluation (to document the assault). It's VERY reasonable to assume that the OP heard of the story from someone who only knew that the guy was arrested and two kids had been taken to the hospital.

For the record... the man was charged with four counts of second degree battery (a felony). I don't know how much you know of the law, but "threw a cell phone" wouldn't qualify.

then what i see is one particular poster demanding everyone who doubted the rumor as reported "apologize"

Given the way the poster was treated (including by you), an apology was warranted. What's more... you know it.

She was wrong on facts that she had no way of knowing... she wasn't lying. You, and others, treated her as if she was.

& what i see is you getting snarky when i call her on it.

Wrong again. I see you continuing to treat someone else as if they've been dishonest after you've already found out that they weren't... but are too proud to apologize... and I called YOU on it.

[Hannah Bell]

62. "volunteer *teacher*" = bullshit. as does the rest of your post.

[FBaggins]

63. Which of course

means that you can't respond to a single point.

But thanks for posting anyway.

The parents sent their kids into an environment that was supposed to be safe and they were assaulted by someone that the school allowed to be there on a regular basis. It doesn't matter whether it's a teacher or the cleaning lady.

And you know it.


I note how you fail to take notice when you yourself make the exact same mistakes... but a double standard is hardly surprising.

[Hannah Bell]

64. a volunteer isn't a teacher. teachers get paid, work full time, have credentials, & are vetted.

you have no idea how often the volunteer was there. and you have no idea who put him there.

you just assume as it pleases you.

[FBaggins]

65. A volunteer TEACHING in a school

can very reasonably be called a "teacher".

Not that the distinction makes the slightest bit of difference.

you have no idea how often the volunteer was there.

Once is all it takes. If the school allowed the guy to be there, they carry a responsibility. Kids were in a classroom where their parents had an expectation that they were safe.


and you have no idea who put him there

You're saying that the school had no idea?

you just assume as it pleases you.

Did you really just post that? Try taking a look back at all of the assumptions YOU made that were wrong.

If you didn't have such a clear double standard, you would be embarrassed.

Do you honestly think that the police would charge someone with four counts of felony battery for throwing a cell phone?

[Hannah Bell]

70. a parent coming in for a demo can be said to be "teaching". doesn't mean they're a teacher.

you don't know anything about how often, how long, & under what conditions this person was in the school.

what we do know is he wasn't a teacher. he was a volunteer.

[FBaggins]

73. "Volunteer" doesn't appear to mean what you assume it does.

Since this has already been pointed out to you... one must wonder why you persist in the error.

[Hannah Bell]

77. where is that that it was pointed out to me?

[FBaggins]

86. You DID get far enough in school...

...to know that 77 is a higher number than 76... right?

[mzteris]

72. and now you know why

I quit even bothering. Having honest intellectual discourse with some is clearly impossible.

[Hannah Bell]

80. you should know, ms tetris. cause you are exhibit A.

[mzteris]

71. hmmmm -

Why would I HAVE to put up anything about "charter malfeasance"? It's there in triplicate by the charter haters? I defend my position. I try not to post the negatives about traditionals, but sometimes in order to make my point, I show comparable incidents to illustrate that just because charters have SOME bad apples, they - like traditionals - have both good AND bad. And yeah, to point out the hypocrisy of the poster(s) who just post the bad stuff. To show ONLY the bad about Charters is disingenuous at best. I don't seek out "bad things to post" about traditional public schools to try and discredit all traditional schools!

Yeah, I did ask that those with the maturity to do so, apologize to stoppaddling - because they were maligning her and essentially calling her a liar. THAT's the reason I went looking for the "truth" of the matter. Because I know what it's like to be on the receiving end of that derision and scorn and have every single word out of your mouth parsed and analyzed for the worst possible interpretation. I always ( ok nearly always) apologize if I'm proved wrong. Or if I've been overly enthusiastic about - jumping on a poster unfairly.

[FBaggins]

74. You appear to be right about stoppaddle... but my problem with you

was that your posts were also out of line (some weeks back now was the last I remember). We could all google hundreds of stories a year about some teacher at a public school doing something they shouldn't (right up to some of the worst crimes)... but that doesn't tell us anything about public education in general any more than finding a bad teacher at a charter school says anything about all charter schools... but you both kept persisting.

After you were told (and I apologize if I have you confused with someone else) that your story refereed to an actual DU poster and appeared malicious... you had an obligation to stop.

I have no problem with someone else deciding that charter schools are acceptable - we don't all have to agree... and I certainly support anyone who elects to take their parental responsibilities seriously enough to homeschool... but that doesn't mean that I assume everything else they post is ok.

That would be as much an error as some who see rational disagreement as evidence that the poster is on the opposite side of EVERY issue.

[mzteris]

75. I have admitted that SOMETIMES I get upset

at all the attacks on everything about Charter schools, and respond less than logically. And yeah, sometimes heatedly. Though most of the time I do try to apologize. (I SAID "most"! :) )

I have stated repeatedly that I don't "hate traditional public schools and teachers." Yet, because I also accept and appreciate educational alternatives - charters and homeschooling - I'm labeled a "hater" and EVERY WORD I say attacked. Accused of being a freep or rw, or a paid plant or some other such complete and total nonsense and drivel. I mean, how freaking ridiculous is that? I WISH I got paid for the time I spend on the Internet, on DU - heck then maybe I could afford to go out and not have just the internet for company and entertainment! lol

As stated somewhere else in here the past few days, I don't HAVE to post ANYTHING BAD about charters, 'cause that's covered pretty damn well around here. AND I don't have to say what's GOOD about traditionals, because that's being touted repeatedly with a some sort of "SEE? THEY"RE BETTER" type of posting. You've - never - no one has - seen me issue a blanket denunciation of all traditional public schools and all teachers.

Oh and about that particular "issue" - if you go back and read through those posts - and dates/times/persons (chronologically) - I think you'll find that it wasn't me that wouldn't "let it go" - and yeah, I defended myself against what others were saying about ME. I didn't "out" anyone. She "outed herself" and then kept going on and on and on about it. Hell, she KEEPS mentioning it all the damn time (though usually each time has a little bit different "spin" to it. :shrug:) an

I don't WANT you - or anyone - to accept everything I post as "ok". Again - I've stated repeatedly that I'm looking for honest intellectual discourse about facts. The fact that some people seem incapable of being objective isn't my fault. And the fact that - yeah - I feel compelled to correct the constant MISINFORMATION I read on DU, doesn't mean that I'm a bad person nor that I "hate" teachers & trad schools.

I know I have some spectrum tendencies of not understanding people sometimes, and definitely of not "getting" why it is that people don't "get me" - yeah I KNOW that, but honestly, I really just don't understand why it is people don't understand what I stand for and what I'm trying to say. (Yeah, I'm whining now. :P ) I think I make perfect sense and am being rational and calm, and then BLAM! I get hit with some insult or putdown that I was doing/saying so-and-so that was was was some kind of EVIL or something!!

Are there a couple of posters on DU that I no longer even TRY to interact with? Hells yeah. I'm not completely devoid of reason and understand that there is NO reaching SOME people. and that their posts are completely and totally "irrational". The others? Well, I haven't given up hope on all of them yet. Though I probably would sleep better if I added a couple . . . let me think about that. (I really don't like to use "ignore") I understand they get upset, too. I just wish they could understand that I'm NOT a bad guy here. I try to educate. I was always told you can learn something from everybody - be they young or old, smart or not, educated or drop-out, high or low . . . you just gotta keep an open mind and listen. Look for the good, don't assume the worst about people or anything else.

I dunno FB, I know a lot of the "teachers" on here have written me off. And yeah, it bothers me because I DON"T think I did anything to "earn" that. I certainly did NOTHING to be accused of being a pedo/pervert/childabuser! THAT was completely out of line. And yeah, it really hurt. Though I still haven't blocked that poster. 'Cause I know that deep down SHE knows that she and I both want the same thing - what's best for kids.

[Hannah Bell]

96. tag team.

[Hannah Bell]

94. nice tag team.

[Hannah Bell]

60. no one "beat" them. the volunteer threw something at them. you're a font of fake information.

[stopschoolpaddling]

68. The newspaper says he struck two students with an open hand and one with his fist.

It doesn't mention him throwing anything.

[Hannah Bell]

81. where's your link? the earlier one said cell phone.

[FBaggins]

90. Once again HB... he was charges with four counts of felony battery.

You can't get that from throwing a cell phone.

http://www.todaysthv.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=101406&catid=2

[stopschoolpaddling]

43. And that matter to the parents who trusted the school to hire trustworthy instructors

in what way? And this negates what happened to the students in what way? Please, my noble queen, do explain...

[Hannah Bell]

50. Volunteers aren't "hired". Volunteers don't get paid, & you have no idea who brought this volunteer

into the school: the school, the state, the feds, some religious group, etc.

The only public information released is: he was a VOLUNTEER, I.E. NOT A TEACHER, NOT HIRED BY THE SCHOOL.

AND NO CHILDREN WERE PUT IN THE HOSPITAL.


So, let's see, you reported two 5th graders were "beat up by their music teacher" & that both were in the hospital & the teacher was in jail.

None of that seems to be true. Instead, what seems to have happened is a volunteer threw something at kids he was with, leaving a mark, but doing no injury that would send them to the hospital. and he's not in jail.

[stopschoolpaddling]

53. Sorry, it was a volunteer and not a teacher. We don't know if the

children didn't go to the hospital and then got released. 
This is probably where the news that I heard that the children
were in the hospital came from. If the man is not in jail then
it is because he got sprung by putting up his $10,000 bond.
     But getting back to my original point is that if there
wasn't such an attitude in this area that children need to be
beaten into submission for behavioral infractions than I doubt
this would have happened.  
     All you have to do is look at the comments following the
TV report to see that people in this community are already
blaming the children for this man's violent outburst.  That is
what is wrong.  First, they give the children a violent
example to follow and then when the children follow it, they
blame the children and set yet another bad example of how to
dominate and control other people.
     That's all I'm saying.

[soleiri]

55. I don't think anyone is arguing for paddling here.

To be honest, I didn't know that some states still allow it.
I'm lucky enough to live in a state that doesn't.
I don't live in a rural area where schools are allowed to paddle students (lucky me, I only have to worry about gang violence :) )

I read the comments from the article, your community seems to support paddling.
Therefore, it's up to you as a member of the community to try and change the minds of your fellow citizens.
Is there a PTA or other parent organization that you can become involved in?
if not, why not talk to other parents and bring your concerns as a group to the superintendent or principal?
If you've done that already, good for you.

At times it seems you turn discussions that have nothing to do with paddling into one,
instead of finding allies with teachers who would normally be sympathetic, you have alienated them.

The fact is, you were wrong to post something that was no more than town gossip.
I'm sure you trust this person who works at the country store, but what if she got wrong information?
And since she said it was a teacher, clearly it was wrong information.
You have acknowledge this, but it would have been more prudent to wait for conformation of the incident instead of posting it based on town gossip.

[Hannah Bell]

57. we do know they didn't go to the hospital if you read carefully.

[stopschoolpaddling]

67. One student went to the hospital

The article that came out in today's paper says that one student was treated at the Stone County Medical Center and that is the name of our hospital so saying "we do know they didn't go to the hospital if you read carefully." is false.

[FBaggins]

69. It doesn't matter - you just don't understand how this works.

One error on your part means that any number of errors on her part are excusable. Others can make assumptions based on their predispositions all day long... but you can't. In fact, if you make such an error you will be lambasted.

Got it now? :)

If you didn't catch it above, I found some additional information on the "grassroots program." It's in post #66.

[Hannah Bell]

79. i'm not the one who made any claims about what happened in a school in ak.

i didn't see your LINK in post 66.

[FBaggins]

91. Actually... yes you are.

Among others you claimed that nobody went to a hospital... that the perp was an unpaid volunteer... and that all he did was throw a cell phone. IIRC, you also claimed that he wasn't in jail.

[Hannah Bell]

78. i haven't seen that. link?

[stopschoolpaddling]

84. Here is the article from the Stone County Leader. The local newspaper that came out yesterday.

I don't think I can link it because you have to have a subscription to the paper to view it online and then it requires a username and password.

School incident
results in charges

A Mountain View man
has been charged with
four counts of battery
in the second degree, a
Class D felony, in connection
with an incident
during a music instruction
session at Mountain
View school.
According to the
police information and
affi davit fi led in Stone
County Circuit Court,
Alfred Vincent Tellone,
59, was instructing a
class at Mountain View
Middle School on March
17 when he became
upset and struck three
students, and forced
another student from
the room. Tellone is
accused of striking 10-
and 11-year-old students
with his open
hand during an incident
over use of a cell phone,
and of striking another
11-year-old student
with his fist. He is also
accused of grabbing a
14-year-old student by
the hair and forcing him
out of the room.
One of the students
was treated at Stone
County Medical Center.
Tellone’s bond was set
at $10,000.

[proud2BlibKansan]

87. You post the link by copying and pasting the url at the top of the page

[FBaggins]

89. And you demonstrate reading comprehension by

actually reading what is written and not what you presume was written.

A link to a subscription site would not work for anyone who didn't subscribe to the site. Given the "shoot the messenger" reaction that the poster has come to expect, what would you expect the reaction to be?

I think we've gotten to the point that we can assume that she is telling the truth as she knows it. The copied text is certainly consistent with other published information.

http://www.todaysthv.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=101406&catid=2

[proud2BlibKansan]

92. Just trying to help her learn how to post a link

Figured it might come in handy :shrug:

[FBaggins]

93. You can't read tone into electronic posts

Sorry if that came across as other than I good humor.

[Hannah Bell]

103. sure baggins. she told the poster how to put up a link, with no other comment, & you in your good

humor, insulted her reading skills, and made multiple presumptions while criticizing her for presuming.


Baggins:

"And you demonstrate reading comprehension by actually reading what is written and not what you presume was written.

A link to a subscription site would not work for anyone who didn't subscribe to the site. Given the "shoot the messenger" reaction that the poster has come to expect, what would you expect the reaction to be?

I think we've gotten to the point that we can assume that she is telling the truth as she knows it. The copied text is certainly consistent with other published information."


all in good humor, i'm sure.

ps: please don't misunderstand the good humor in my post.

i'm the good humor man.

all friendly fun, eh wot, baggins?

[FBaggins]

105. She "told the poster how to put up a link"

when the poster exhibited no lack of such ability.

[stopschoolpaddling]

106. Here is the link but I don't know if it will work.

http://stonecountyleader.com/scl08/Portals/0/Pages/Current/Low%20Bandwidth/Mar24_A01_FrontPg_148k.pdf

You have to download the page in acrobat as a pdf.  If it
doesn't work could I post it as an attachment?

[FBaggins]

107. I can't believe that you would stoop so low!

To go so far as to fraudulently mock up an fake newspaper just to support your ongoing lies? Shameless.

:-)


The link worked fine BTW. Thanks.

[Hannah Bell]

110. which no one accused her of doing, baggins.

i thought you were against making "presumptions"? at least, you chided the poster for same.

the link now posted isn't subscription only, btw.

[FBaggins]

113. Everything but.

Hyperbole is a valid rhetorical device.


the link now posted isn't subscription only, btw.

Still can't tell the difference between deception and honest irrelevant error, eh?

No surprise there I suppose... or is it really just a matter of convenience for you?

[stopschoolpaddling]

111. Now what the hell are you talking about?

[FBaggins]

112. It was humor SSP

Note the smiley?

Just drawing attention to the fact that it doesn't matter how much information you provide... some will accuse you of lying/fabrication/whatever simply because the truth is inconvenient.

Their psychosis is transparent to all but themselves.

[stopschoolpaddling]

114. Oh okay, that's good. I think it's time to let this thing die out. Personally,

I've had enough of it and I've got better things to do like
pack.  There is just no excuse for the mentality here and
sadly there is no changing it either.  The only way this place
will ever change is if it's policys are nationally banned and
they are forced to but my children's children will have
children by then.  

[mzteris]

115. and maybe by then -

some will have enough of a clue to buy a vowel.

:rofl:

[Hannah Bell]

109. nor did she put up a link.