Charter schools don’t top the charts

[Catshrink]

Charter schools don’t top the charts
Education examiner Donna Gundle-Kreig writes that charter schools are supported by 77 percent of Michigan voters. While the poll Gundle-Kreig cites is likely accurate, it is also likely that many of Michigan’s voters don’t fully understand charter schools.

A charter school is a publicly-funded school – receiving money from state and local governments just like other public schools – that is freed from many of the rules, regulations and statutes that apply to other public schools. Instead, the charter school is held to some kind of accountability for results as set forth in its charter; a contract of sorts with the agency granting the charter.

<snip>

As charter schools have become more popular and more widespread, more data is available on the successes and problems that result. Recent studies reported in the New York Times, including a comprehensive study by researchers at Stanford University, find that fewer than 20% of charter schools offered a better education than comparable local schools, about half offered an equivalent education, and more than one-third were “significantly worse.”

Certainly there are some charter schools that are successful. What appears to make the difference is the rigor of authorities that grant charters. Oversight is strong in New York, a state known for better outcomes. Ohio, Arizona, and Texas have minimal accountability, and studies show those states have among the poorest-performing charter schools overall.

James Merriman, chief executive of the New York City Charter School Center, points out that school quality does not, in fact, rise because of marketplace accountability. “It turns out”, Merriman says, “you need government accreditation to drive quality, and the human capital to make schools go. The hard lesson is, it is so dependent on human capital.”

<snip>

In the past five years, the U.S. Department of Education’s Inspector General’s office has opened more than 40 criminal investigations of charter schools nationwide. These have resulted in convictions for offenses ranging from embezzlement and inflating enrollment to obtain more funding to changing grades and creating companies to divert taxpayer dollars from schools.

http://www.examiner.com/x-29491-Topeka-K12-Examiner~y2010m5d10-Charter-schools-dont-top-the-charts

So now we're called "human capital?" That's actually dehumanizing.

[stray cat]

1. How do they do compared to other schools in their zip code?

Most charter schools I think are in underserved areas

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. The ones in my area have lower test scores

[mzteris]

16. maybe because the schools they came from

had them so ill-prepared and so far behind, eh?

[roguevalley]

23. ours aren't and still they underperform. to blame the schools they

came from for the product they make is not good. they have the kids, they have their program, they are responsible.

[mzteris]

30. I was being only a little bit flip -

but - let's think about this.

If a child has transferred out of a school because they're BEHIND, it's going to take a while to catch up. And I'm here to tell ya, that one of the number one reasons a kid transfers in to (or out of) a Charter public school is due to their "having problems" of some type in the school they are in. Given time, most of these kids DO improve.

It's not necessarily because "one school is better than the other". Sometimes it's just where and how the kid learns best. Or the environment. Or the buyin... there are myriad reasons why a classroom does or does not work for a particular child. That's why I think the more educational options, the better, ya know? I'm not really "blaming" the schools - OR the teachers. (I was tweaking that one's nose a wee bit. . . ) Sometimes it's just not a good "fit". Sometimes it IS circumstances beyond the control of the teachers/school systems.

But to bash charters because of "lower scores" and turn around and say test scores "don't matter" for traditional schools is more than a bit disingenuous, don't you think?

You not only have to take each school on it's own, each classroom/teacher, but each student. Little Johnny may be a failure at school A and a star at school B. Little Sara may be a failure at school B and a star at school A. Which school do we "shut down" for failure?

[roguevalley]

35. sorry. taught forever. schools should fit kids. classrooms should

fit kids.

[Greyskye]

43. But what happens when the schools and the classrooms DON'T fit the kids?

Which do you think gets the pressure to change? The classroom, or the child?

It's the child who is pressured to change. Which is the whole point behind charter schools - to give the kids an alternative to traditional education where they have a chance to excel.

Progressive values are all about choice.

[roguevalley]

56. first of all, I changed to fit the kid because our school district didn't

find it cost effective to help kids in other ways who were struggling, etc. Charters schools have this glistening surface that hides the simple fact that the majority of them fail or are no better than public schools. People have this view that if it isn't public school, its better. They fail at the same or even higher rate than public schools. Progressive values are about choice but the choices given are hardly compelling. Its education that much change at each level, not pretending that charters are the solution when the evidence gathered doesn't prove they are.

[mzteris]

57. good for you for changing -

most teachers can't - or won't - due mainly to over-crowded classrooms and "school policy".

I really do wish people wouldn't broad brush charter public schools. There are myriad reasons why the "reports" you read may indicate that their "success/failure" is no better than or worse than the schools you prefer. It's been addressed many times, including by people other than myself. . . but even if you reject those explanations, even if you really believe "those reports" - you're still guilty of rejecting a "whole" due to the supposed sins of a few.

What about those kids who are in classrooms that won't/can't change? Should they HAVE NO CHOICE? Oh. sorry. This is the only place you can go. Suck it up. ?? If YOUR child was in a classroom or system that could not or would not meet their educational needs, and there was another school they could attend that could and would - wouldn't you be a pretty bad parent if you FORCED your child to stay in a environment that was "harmful" to THEM when there were other options available?

And no - I am NOT saying "all traditional schools" are harmful. I'm NOT saying "all traditional teachers are bad". I am a supporter of traditional public schools and all teachers (the good ones, anyway!) -regardless of WHERE they teach.

You're talking to a woman who gave up everything to stay home and homeschool her child that did NOT fit into the "traditional school model". Whose school board said point blank, "the principal knows how to educate the children in her school. You're just a parent. She's a professional." Yeah - a professional who lied to the SB, who forbade teachers to talk to my child, who engineered it so we couldn't even get him transferred to another magnet school except one that was another 15 miles away ( I was already driving 17.5) or we could go to theh "local elementary" - whose principal told me (over one of my foster kids) that if a kid is doing "good enough" then that was all that was needed.

Are there "bad charter schools"? Absolutely. Shut them down. I don't advocate charter public schools over traditional public schools. I advocate free and appropriate educational choices for all children. For some that's their local neighborhood school. For some it's the traditional magnet schools. For some it's a charter public school. For some, it's homeschooling.

Please don't take away the educational choices that people have. They ARE necessary for many many children.

[harry_pothead]

108. .

[mzteris]

45. yes, they should.

That's why I advocate for smaller classes and higher pay for all teachers all the time.

Smaller classes lend themselves to better differentiation, accommodation, and individualized instruction (and no, I'm not using these terms in their "legal" sense...)

Schools/classes that are "tailored" towards a particular subject or learning style can be a real godsend to some children. That's why I advocate educational alternatives and choice.

[Hannah Bell]

59. no, you advocate for charter schools all the time. charter schools are

something other than smaller classrooms & higher pay.

they are generally the opposite, in fact.

[Hannah Bell]

58. sure, that's why the scores are LOWER than they were in the schools they came from.

[Bryan Buchan]

3. You are correct

I would hope the study would include a comparison based on zip code or school district. Many charters do operate in under-served areas.

I think what is less known is many of these charters schools are privately owned, which means they are not a property of the people, which means many charter properties do not allow for free community access. It would be solely at their discretion if you were allowed use of their facility. Where public schools are owned by the people/local government...this issue is rarely discussed.

[Frustratedlady]

4. I was under the impression that all charter schools were either

church-owned or privately owned.

Isn't the real target of charter schools/government to close down public education?

[mzteris]

10. NOPE.

Charters are non-profit PUBLIC schools - open to all. (in the same way that traditional schools are. There may be some requirements - as in traditionals - district, specific NEED (like speaking another language, etc...)

No. the "real target " of charter public schools is to offer FREE quality educational alternatives to children whose needs are not being met in the traditional school to which they have access.

[Hannah Bell]

60. yes, it is. the person you asked the question of gets her information from walmart's

propaganda department.

that's no slur, either. it's the literal truth.

[Greyskye]

73. The last answer you just received is a lie.

All charter schools are NOT either church-owned or privately owned. Perhaps you are confusing 'charter schools' with voucher programs? I am personally vehemently anti-voucher.

My wife teaches at a charter school. The charter is held by the local school district. The school itself is run by a non-profit foundation, accountable directly to the public school board.

The single most important thing to remember when discussing charter schools, is that the state laws regarding charter schools vary wildly from state to state. Some states have good regulations and accountability, others are dreadfully lacking in that department. As my wife is fond of saying, comparing charter schools across state lines is like comparing apples to oranges to peanuts.

There are 'charter schools' run by for-profit corporations. I have never dealt with one of these, and I know nothing about them other than horror stories that I've read here and elsewhere. These are a whole different kettle of fish, and I wish a thousand miserable deaths on the people responsible. Not only have the had a deleterious effect on the children they were supposed to be educating, but they've forced the decent public charter schools across the country to defend themselves against the sins that others have committed.

Don't take my word for it, or any other posters word though. Do your own research. I'm confident that you will find that my statements are accurate. :hi:

[Hannah Bell]

75. The "last answer" was to the question of whether the goal of the charter school movement is to shut

down public education.

The answer is YES, & it's no lie.

But it is a lie that all charter schools are non-profit.

[Greyskye]

80. Can we agree on this?

The 'Charter School Movement' is exactly as organized as the Democratic Party. That is to say, not at all. Laws regulating charter schools vary wildly from state to state.

Some 'for-profit' charter organizations in some states, probably do wish to 'gain market share' at the expense of traditional public schools. That's wrong and should be stopped. I take it you have no argument with that?

Most non-profit public school charters are run by parents and teachers. There is no 'movement' for them, other than to establish an alternative to their local public education program. These charters often have a focus such as science, the arts, or simply an alternative teaching method, such as the one developed by Maria Montessori. These charter schools don't want to shut down public education, they are public education.

Here, I'll agree with you on one of your main contentions: Not all charter schools are non-profit.

Will you agree with me on the following? I'll even qualify it to an outrageously conservative extent: Some public, non-profit public charter schools provide a quality education.

Again, as with all my charter school posts, I am referring only to the charter school system that I am familiar with, in California.

[Hannah Bell]

106. no, we can't. the democratic party is quite well organized, & so is the charter school movement.

organized with cash, from big funders, in their interest.

i don't think all the "little people" involved in either enterprise get it, but that's the facts.

[mzteris]

9. Charters are NEVER "privately owned"

They are free PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

:sigh:

[Hannah Bell]

61. uh, yes, they are. for-profit charter schools are indeed "privately owned."

the corporation owns the buildings, the curriculum, the name, & the profits.

[Mr Generic Other]

5. sorry straycat, you're wrong about that.

charters move in where the profit is largest and that is not where there is a lack of students or funds.
it is a part of the privatization movement that has has done so much damage to our local and national governments and economies.
why would anyone want to spend public monies on private "for profit" agencies to teach our kids when those agencies don't have to answer to the public?
this movement is the latest manifestation of white flight.
i can't figure out why so many folk, even here on DU, are attracted to this sham.

[tonysam]

6. Two reasons: One, Obama is for it,

and two, there are some who post here who I believe are shills for the charter school outfits or think tanks which support them.

[mzteris]

12. and there are DU"ERS who know me - personally -

how many have actually met you?

[Catshrink]

13. Yep.

masters of the copy and paste.

[mzteris]

14. and some people hate Obama SO MUCH

that they even took up for Sarah PALIN during the elections... curious, eh?

[Hannah Bell]

62. The "hate obama" card!!! lol!!!

[mzteris]

15. btw -

didn't you just "copy and paste" your OP?

[mzteris]

11. NO NO NO NO NO!!

Charter schools do NOT "make a profit". All charter public schools are NON-PROFIT.

Some unscrupulous "for profit management companies" - which ALSO operate TRADITIONAL PUBLIC SCHOOLS! - and only 10% of charters are managed by same... - should be put out of business.

10% are managed by non-profit companies

80% are opened and managed by LOCAL PARENTS, TEACHERS, men and women of the community who VOLUNTEER their time to ensure their children get the education they need.

Charter students get LESS money per student than the traditionals in their district.

don't condem all charter public schools due to the sins of a few. If we did that - we'd have to close probably every single school in the country - traditional, religious, private, charter, or otherwise.

[Greyskye]

17. +1000

Absolutely correct. I've really gotten tired of defending the non-profit public charter schools that are living up to their charter and providing a quality education.

Anecdote: One school district. Two schools within a mile or so of each other. Identical student demographics. One is a traditional public school. One is a non-profit public charter Montessori school. The charter school gets less state money, and has better STAR test results then the traditional public school.

I get that some charters are money grubbing profit machines. I wish that the haters would realize that not all charters are like the ones that they've experienced.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Catshrink]

20. A question about the two schools you mention

How do the number of special education students compare in the two schools? How about English Language Learners? How about parental involvement? Charter schools can cherry pick their students while public schools must take all comers. If the demographics are "equal" on these factors, then a valid comparison can be made based on test scores.

[Greyskye]

21. I can answer some of those off the top of my head.

The charter school doesn't 'cherry pick'. There is an open lottery for openings, with the only preferences going to kids who already have siblings in the charter. The waiting list to get in is the same size as the school population.

Parental involvement is high at the charter school - I don't know about the other. I assume it's standard for traditional public schools, meaning minimal parental involvement. :shrug:

I think that there are probably more special education students at the charter school. This is where the kids go that don't quite 'fit' in the traditional public school. I know of quite a few students at the charter who are under IEP's for ADHD, autism, sensory integration issues, etc. There is a special education person on staff.

This is a rural area, with not a larger percentage of ESL students. I know that there are some at the charter, but have no clue how the number compares with the other school.

The only real difference in demographics between the two schools, is that some parents in the area made an effort to enroll their kids in the charter school.

I'll run this by my wife, who happens to be a teacher, when she gets home. I'll make corrections and additions then.

Thanks for the civil dialog. :hi:

[NYC_SKP]

24. "Charter schools can cherry pick their students while public schools must take all comers."

I'm sorry, this oft-repeated meme is just not true.

Public schools can and do eliminate students, and many charter schools accept more than their proportionate share of LD and ELL students.

It does the discussion no benefit to stereotype all charter schools or all public schools in one way or another.

Most of the charter schools in my county, for example, are run by our own office of education and are 100% staffed by union teachers.

One has a 50% at risk requirement, all of them have ELL students.

Of course, we have to keep a close eye on ALL schools, and especially Private Charter schools, but not all schools are the same.

Thanks in advance.

NYC_SKP

PS: FWIW, I sit on several school boards, district meetings, and attend California Department of Education meetings.

[mzteris]

26. hey - I do have one small correction -

there is NO such thing as a "Private charter school". All Charter schools are public and non-profit.

[NYC_SKP]

27. Thanks...

For California, I distinguish between privately operated non-profit charters, like Aspire, and those run by offices of education.

In other states, I have no idea what goes on and so try to make peace with others who have a different view or experience.

:thumbsup:

[mzteris]

33. um - aren't they a non-profit management organization?

though CA is a whole-nother kettle of fish when it comes to charters - and homeschooling!

The laws governing charters vary so much from state to state. The evidence shows pretty clearly that the states with the "best laws" have the "best charters". The National Association of Charters schools is working on getting states more on the same page. To raise the requlatory requirements and oversight. I don't want them to become TOO "overseen" though or they'll just turn into the inflexible machines that charters are trying to escape, you know?

[tonysam]

37. Distinction without a difference

They aren't "run" by any public entity but are often "overseen" by school districts or state boards.

The fact they have NO BOARD THAT IS ACCOUNTABLE TO VOTERS MEANS THEY ARE NOT PUBLIC, GET IT?

Of course not, when you are promoting propaganda.

[mzteris]

46. but they ARE accountable to the attendees,

and if the attendeess walk, then the school is no longer open, capice?

It really is a more immediate and efficient way to govern.

How many times has a "School board election" been co-opted by fundies? How many times has "school board elections" turned into all about politics and small-town peyton/place bs. They lose sight of the students - the INDIVIDUALS. they become MORE concerned about "getting elected" and managing their little fiefdoms. Many use the schoolboard as a springboard into "POLITICS". Maybe if there was LESS POLITICS involved, then more attention could be paid to the real matter at hand- the children and their free and appropriate education, n'est pas?

[Hannah Bell]

65. bullshit.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Greyskye]

38. Wrong.

Traditional public schools (at least in CA) do not accept students who live outside of the school district.

Ever.

Charter schools, however, do not have that limitation. As long as the parent can get the kid there, the charter school has to take them. Again, this is the case in California. As my wife (the teacher) said in another post, comparing charter schools across state lines is like comparing "apples, oranges and peanuts".

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. wrong

There is a public school serving every community in the country. Just because kids cannot attend a public school in a different district doesn't mean they are being refused admission to public education. On the other hand, charters can and do refuse to admit some kids. I know literally dozens of kids who have been refused admission or kicked out of a charter school. But none of them will be refused by a traditional public school.

[Greyskye]

41. You can't compare charter schools across state lines.

What I stated in my post was 100% accurate. In California.

The laws in every state are different. That is why I'm careful to always qualify what I say with 'in California'.

Please have the same courtesy. Thank you.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. So you can't judge charters either

The ones where I live are not reflective of Democratic party values. So it is perfectly reasonable to question why a Democrat would support them.

[Greyskye]

44. I certainly don't attempt to judge YOUR charters.

I have repeatedly stated that I understand that some states have terrible problems with charter schools.

I simply wish a reciprocal acknowledgment that there are some (arguably many) non-profit, public charter schools across the country which do an excellent job educating our children. Please don't paint all public charters across the country with the same broad brush. That's all.

Cheers.

[mzteris]

49. maybe you need to widen your scope, then.

The world of education is not just where you live, you know.

[Hannah Bell]

67. nor where you live, despite your walmart fact sheet.

[Hannah Bell]

66. yet california charter schools are more segregated than california public schools.

both racially & economically.

i wonder how it happens.

since they don't cherry-pick.

i guess it's self-selection.

& maybe the absence of certain services in certain schools which effectively excludes certain categories of students.

[mzteris]

48. kids can and do get "kicked out of" traditionals

every single day.

Sometimes they don't get "kicked out" -

and sometimes, they just get ignored until they leave.

[mzteris]

47. evidently you have trouble believing anything

that anyone says. . .

:(

[mzteris]

25. Charters do NOT "cherry pick" - that, my dear,

is a damn lie. I'm sorry. I'm tired of being polite about this.

This has been debunked over and over and over again, yet this LIE persists.



BTW - I thought you "HATED" test scores. Only when they don't support your cause, hm?

[Hannah Bell]

76. of course they do. and of course, since the privatizers have established test

scores as the metric by which public schools are judged, when the privatizers FAIL TO APPLY THE SAME STANDARD to their own schools, it's worth noting -- MY DEAR.

[Greyskye]

28. Thoughts from a teacher.

I'm Greyskye's wife - a charter school teacher. I have a classroom of 25 fourth and fifth grade students. 10 of the 25 students receive special ed services (that is a dramatically larger percentage than most traditional public school classrooms would have). I make $10,000 less per year than the teachers at the school next door. Our school receives no facilities funding from the state, unlike the school next door. Our ESL population is identical to the school next door.

Our charter school is run by a non-profit foundation. In view of the current economic situation, all teachers in the local school district with five years experience or less have been given "pink slips" for next year. Despite our lack of funding from the state (we survive on LOTS of fundraising) our principal and school board have kept a financial reserve that has enabled us to keep from laying off any teaching staff for the last two years and will not lay off any next year either.

The biggest advice I can give to any of you is not to compare charter schools from one state to another. The charter school laws are so different in each state that you are comparing apples to oranges to peanuts. We cannot do any "cherry picking" at charter schools in our state. We cannot even deny students admission based on geography like the school next door is able to do - we really must take ALL comers.

The concept of calling standardized test scores a valid comparison is flawed at the outset. The purpose of a charter school is to provide an ALTERNATIVE method of education. In order to truly know if it works or not, an alternative method of testing would need to exist as well. We try to teach one way, and then give the "standardized test" that everyone else gives with varying results. I'm giving the test this week, as a matter of fact. I wish I could convey the upheaval and emotional distress that this high stakes testing has on my students. If I could, perhaps you and the politicians involved would look at it differently.

As far as anyone who believes in charter schools not being a Democrat.....huh???????? There's no one who has ever met me who would describe me any other way.

[mzteris]

32. + 1,000,000

:thumbsup:

Don't expect many kudos from here, though.

The misconceptions, the misinformation, the outright LIES that are told over and over about Charter public schools is absolutely nauseating.

You'd think, being Democrats, they'd not only respect, but support CHOICE! You know - a free and appropriate education for all.

Thank you for being a good teacher!

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. A platform of the Demcratic party has been support for strong public schools

In many communities, charter schools are NOT alternative schools but competition for traditional public schools. They are deliberately destroying the traditional schools. That is their purpose.

This is how charters work where I live. They are allowed to be selective about who they admit and who they kick out. They lie to recruit students. One of our charters is telling parents their children will not be allowed to ride the bus to their traditional public school because the district has stopped transportating kids. The charter then offers door to door transportation and they have a new family enrolled in their school.

This is how charters work where I live. They receive all of their funding for a year based on one enrollment count in September. The traditional public schools get funding based on daily attendance. When it increases, the funding goes up. When attendance decreases, the funding goes down. Once the official child count day has passed, the charters are free to kick out as many kids as they want and they still have the same funding.

These are not policies that reflect the platform of MY Democratic party. I am watching these policies destroy an urban public school system. If Democrats support strong public schools, how can they also support a system that is destroying traditional public schools?

This Is how charters work where I live.

[mzteris]

50. Charter schools ARE PUBLIC schools!

In many communities, charter public schools are the ONLY alternative available when the traditional school that is there fails to meet the child's needs. They are NOT "destroying pubic schools" They ARE public schools. They are SAVING "PUBLIC SCHOOLS' in many districts across the country. Thier PURPOSE is to provide a free and appropriate education for children whose needs are NOT being met in the traditional school available to them.

Where you live or where you work?

If you KNOW about improprieties, then REPORT them to the authorities. Have them investigated and shut down. Hell, give me their names and I"LL report them for you!!

Looking at MO laws on attendance, I'm not seeing that "September" thing... Maybe I'm missing it, here's the link: http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C100-199/1600000415.HTM if you can find that reference, please let me know.


YOUR "democratic party"? I thought it was OUR Democratic Party... You're not the only one, you know. And other people have other needs and other experiences that are JUST AS VALID - and AS DEMOCRATIC - as "yours".

[Hannah Bell]

77. bullshit.

[Greyskye]

34. My wife informs me that I was wrong about one of my statements.

I said that there is one special education person on staff at the charter school. I was wrong - there are three.

[mzteris]

51. see? You're such a LIAR!!!

:banghead:

They really need to pay us better, don't they?

[Greyskye]

52. LOL

That's what I'm sayin'!

But maybe someday those kickbacks from the non-profit foundations I keep advocating will come rolling in! :rofl:

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. You aren't going to profit

You're not high enough on the food chain. None of us are.

[Greyskye]

54. .

:eyes:

[mzteris]

55. as long as the kids do,

that's all that really matters.

[Hannah Bell]

68. they haven't so far, & they're not going to either.

17% of charters perform better, 46% the same, & 37% worse than the public schools they replaced or comparable public schools. said the largest & most authoritative study of the facts.

not that it's of interest to you.

[Greyskye]

29. Correction to one thing.

The schools that I'm talking about are literally across the street from each other. The district offices are attached to the traditional school. So the demographics are really identical.

[mzteris]

31. my son's charter is located in the exact same building as

the traditional school. Same facilities, same demographics, same neighborhoods. . . Lots of Free/reduced lunch, lots of single parent families, lots of Hispanics and African Americans - guess which group of kids consistently "out perform" - and I'm also talking about the "Battle of the Books, the Math Competition, etc..." not just test scores. though yeah, our kids rock there, too.

[Hannah Bell]

64. The existence of credible charter schools does not mitigate the following:

1. The charter school movement is funded & pushed by finance capital; the aim is to destroy public education & turn it into a profit center for capital.

2. The largest & most authoritative study of charter schools found no evidence that charters in general improved student learning: 17% performed better, 46% the same, & 37% worse than the schools they replaced or comparable schools.

Furthermore, there's no reason to think they ever will.

[Hannah Bell]

63. BULLSHIT. You've been corrected repeatedly & you just keep flinging it.

That's what Pinellas County officials say is happening at the F-rated Imagine charter in St. Petersburg, which owes the company nearly $1 million. The school pays $881,179 a year to lease a half-empty building from Schoolhouse Finance, a for-profit subsidiary of Imagine (Charter Schools).

http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12/districts-object-to-charter-school-changes/1094615


The subject of the Times’ article is Imagine Schools, now the largest for profit CMO in the United States.

“Regulators in some states have found that Imagine has elbowed the charter holders out of virtually all school decision making — hiring and firing principals and staff members, controlling and profiting from school real estate, and retaining fees under contracts that often guarantee Imagine’s management in perpetuity,” the Times reports. “The arrangements, they say, allow Imagine to use public money with little oversight.”

http://www.edwize.org/imagine-a-charter-school-management-focused-on-education-not-on-profit


Michigan is home to the nation’s third-largest number of charter schools, many of which rely on private, for-profit companies for administration and management. The companies, commonly known as education management organizations (EMOs), manage approximately 70% of the state’s 144 charters. But some EMOs are not content to simply manage charter schools for others in some cases they are starting up their own schools...

when a for-profit EMO takes over the functions of traditional public education or the day to day operations of a charter school the companies’ non-shareholding ‘constituencies’, in this case the students, parents teachers, and workers at the school, have little or no bargaining power with the corporate directors due to the directors’ fiduciary duties to shareholders; they in fact may arguably be at the mercy of the companies in the absence of adequate regulatory safeguards or union contracts and collective bargaining agreements, all of which are of course an absolute anathema to the ideological interests of privatization supporters.

And because dollars spent on education are not available as dollars for shareholder dividends, in order to realize profits for investors in these for-profit educational management organizations, the bottom line is that EMOs must seek to increase their share of the educational pie through the ‘volume’ business of attracting increasing numbers of students, as well as spend less than they collect; the scramble to keep costs down becomes part and parcel of the profit seeking as they seek simultaneously to expand market share. And these entities do this in myriad ways.


http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/educational-maintenance-organizations-the-for-profit-and-non-profit-management-of-charter-schools/


Also in New York, teachers at a charter school run by the for-profit National Heritage Academies are pushing for unionization, but the CMO is playing hardball...

http://www.schoolsmatter.info/2010/03/cmoemo-updates.html


Advanced Academic Inc. (AAI) is a for-profit online academic program company. They are a division of DeVry University. They made an offer to assist a financially struggling charter last summer. This offer of money was made with the provision that we use the AAI online academic program. At first, this offer truly sounded like a dream situation, an answer for educators everywhere. Instead it was a nightmare.

What administrators and teachers soon found out was that AAI's online academic program is difficult for the urban population. From AAI's own company report, there were approximately 382 students enrolled in the school the first semester, with students taking more than 1,500 classes. Staff was aghast when we learned that there were only 70 classes completed or passed!

We are the staff of the Academy of Recording Arts Charter School in Hawthorne, California. We wanted to let you know the travesty that ensued since AAI online program came into the school. With AAI's new online academic program students were taking all of their classes via the computer, whether they were on-site or home-based students schooled virtually from their homes. Staff was told by AAI to interact with students only from computer to computer....

Now this AAI has managed to wrest financial control from the ARA Board and School through a slickly written addendum to their contract with the school. Even the ARA Board was hoodwinked by AAI threatening to withhold funds if the Board did not vote for the addendum. The addendum allowed AAI to fire half the offending teaching staff, cut the salaries of remaining staff by one third, and increase class size to 45 to 1. ..This is happening in Hawthorne and other LA charters. It has already happened in San Diego. We ask that you help us end this nightmare of for-profit companies wresting away control of non-profit charters.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/united-teachers-of-ara/a-charter-school-travesty_b_566487.html

[Greyskye]

70. And you keep doing the one thing that kills your credibility.

You broad broad-brush all charter schools in every state with the same complaints.

Because of the wildly varying state laws regulating public charter schools in every state, comparing charter schools across state lines is like comparing apples to oranges to peanuts.

I readily acknowledge that some states, such as New York and Florida, have horrible, abysmal regulation over charter schools. I get that. It sucks, and there should be immediate significant changes in states that allow for-profit charters. From what I understand of the situation in Florida, it really is intolerable. I understand.

I simply want the haters to also acknowledge that there are very successful non-profit public school charters in existence. Is that really so difficult?

[Hannah Bell]

71. the poster stated there are no for-profit charters. your comments are irrelevant to the truth or

falsity of that claim, which the other poster has repeated over & over & over, despite it being FALSE.

[Greyskye]

72. Your repeated comments on the problems of ALL charters in EVERY state...

...are demonstrably false.

Why is it impossible for you to acknowledge that there are some good public charters? I freely acknowledge that there are many good traditional public schools. I acknowledge that there are some for-profit corporations in some states, Florida and New York prominent among them, that have horrible problems with for-profit charter schools. I agree with you 100% that those should be highly regulated and shut down due to reprehensible ethical and business practices.

If you can't reciprocate with the acknowledgment that there are some good, non-profit public charter schools, then there is no point in continuing a dialog.

[Hannah Bell]

74. i have acknowledged there are good charters. however, that fact has little weight

compared to the destruction of public education by the finance sector, THE FUTURE PRIVATIZATION OF EDUCATION AS A PROFIT CENTER & the fact that MOST CHARTERS = THE SAME OR WORSE as traditional public schools in the terms the privatizers have themselves set as the metric.

You & other posters want to keep the focus on your cute little boutique charter, your local experience, your own kid. I understand that to a certain extent, individuals cannot do otherwise than what they think is best for their own child; that's the logic of capitalism.

However, the charter school movement in its current incarnation is financed & pushed by big capital & the aim is to turn schooling into a profit center; there are already "education management" companies with *global* reach. It will not benefit MOST PEOPLE. It will not benefit MOST CHILDREN.

The other poster has repeatedly pushed the same FALSEHOOD. I will correct it every time I see it.

I will also challenge what seems to be the new talking point: that charters are all different, & thus any criticism of charters as a class is illegitimate. Bullshit on that. Charters share certain specific characteristics & are open to critique on that basis.

[Greyskye]

84. Please point me to where you have made that acknowledgment.

I've read your posts for years on this issue, and I've never seen you say anything remotely close to that. Then again, that doesn't prove a thing, and I don't claim that it does.

And seriously, even if you grudgingly said that two months or two years ago in some obscure post - you say the exact opposite in almost every single post I've read from you regarding charters. Words matter. And your words figuratively say 'all charters are evil'. And that is a lie and a disservice to everyone working to create successful non-profit public charters.

You and some other posters want to keep the focus on the privately financed corporate raiders, the 'charter' schools that hire instructors with no teaching credentials. You want to focus on your own terrible local experiences, your community, your own kid. Oh wait, no you don't. You want to trash a system that you've never seen, in another state, that was set up in order to catch the kids that weren't being served by a one-size-fits-all mentality. You want to take kids who weren't being successful in a traditional setting who are now thriving, and dump them back into a system that has already chewed them up and spat them out because they didn't mesh well in the traditional school.

You mean well, Hannah Bell. But your methods are fatally flawed.

[Hannah Bell]

89. i will when you link me to one place where any of the contingent of pro-charter school people

here ever admitted that it's not just about their little school or their personal experience or even their state; the assault on public education is national -- & international, because the same thing is going on in England & elsewhere, & international charter school management corps are already set up.

not only that, link me to one post where the number one charter school promoter here EVER, EVER, EVER, acknowledged that she REPEATEDLY POSTS BLATANT FALSEHOODS, ON WHICH SHE'S BEEN REPEATEDLY CALLED.

She has never made such an acknowledgement & never will. Because it's not about truth, it's about propaganda.

I don't give a damn what you think about my methods, I think the same about yours. I'm not obliged to search for year-old posts to satisfy you.

oh, & the fact that you spend all your time berating me for the red herring of "never" making the (obvious) admission that there are "some good" charter schools, while never acknowledging the research showing that overall, charters perform WORSE than traditional public schools, & not once mention the item i originally responded to, WHICH WAS A POSTER'S REPEATED MISREPRESENTATION OF MATTERS OF FACT, demonstrates precisely where you stand.

Diversion to the personal. It's all your team has. Charter DON'T improve student outcomes overall; in fact, they perform worse. They've increased segregation by race, ethnicity, & income. They're a trojan horse for finance capital, & they'll lead to the destruction of the principle of public education & of middle-class wages in education -- & of teaching as a "profession" in the modern sense. They're going to destroy local control, too, for all but a privileged strata.

This is the big cock-up you try to divert from by browbeating me to "admit" some charters do a good job (like I spend all my time denying it) & pretending I'm denying it by posting about the facts above.

I don't know how long you've been reading here, but there's some history you may not be aware of as well. so i'll continue to post every bit of dirt about charter schools i run across, EXACTLY AS THE CHARTER SCHOOL PROPONENTS HAVE BEEN DOING TO THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS FOR YEARS, despite the fact that there are "some good public schools" as well, many, in fact, but you'd never know it because of the UNRELENTING BARRAGE OF PROPAGANDA THROWN THEIR WAY FOR YEARS.

Sauce for the goose & all that, you know. Get used to it.

[Greyskye]

95. I see you can't.

1. Have you ever heard of a little thing called the Constitution? States rights? Ring a bell? Californians are happy with our charter options. You don't see me advocating charter schools in Washington. I'm doing nothing other than defending public non-profit charters that I feel are being unfairly demonized.

2. Your condition in continuing our discussion is dependent upon some other third party that I have absolutely nothing to do with? You do realize how nuts that is, right?

3. My methods have been polite and factual. Your methods have involved cursing and have been factually inaccurate, unsubstantiated broad brush attacks on all charters, including public non-profit ones.

4. The whole idea of public charter schools is to provide an alternative education for a small percentage of the population that is not served by traditional public schools.

[Hannah Bell]

96. Let me refresh your memory: 1)*you* jumped in to respond to a comment i made to the other poster.

I didn't engage *you*.

2) The other poster is famous for repeating the same (gasp) BULLSHIT despite its having been repeatedly shown to be false. That is *fact*.

3) Although you have not said (gasp) bullshit, your methods have neither been polite, nor factual.


They have consisted wholly of an attempt to divert a critique of

a) the FACTUAL ERRORS repeatedly spammed here by one particular poster

b) a GENERAL critique of the politics & economics behind the charter school movement

with

i) The absurd pretense that my admission or lack of admission that there are "some good charter schools" has ANY relevance to a) or b)

ii) The absurd pretense that because California's charter school laws have some differences from laws in other states, the general critique cannot be applied to California charter schools.

Sorry, but it can. Several of the biggest funders of the charter-school movement are thieving California billionaires; I'd be willing to bet your charter is among those who got some money from them.

The fact that you like your charter school in no way falsifies or mitigates a word I've said, & the critique I'm making is not "broad-brush" -- it's simple fact: the charter school movement is funded & pushed by BIG CAPITAL, in its own interest, and has been from day one. FACT.

[Greyskye]

98. I'll take that bet for anything you care to wager.

Several of the biggest funders of the charter-school movement are thieving California billionaires; I'd be willing to bet your charter is among those who got some money from them.

I'd be willing to PM you details of the charters I've been referring to. As my wife sat on the school board for a while, I know where the money came from. And it sure as hell wasn't any billionaires, from any state.

This is an open discussion board. If you can't handle people interjecting themselves into the conversation, then take it to email.

You don't believe that there are legal differences in the charter laws in different states? Wow. Simply incredible. Spend some time here and educate yourself please: http://www.publiccharters.org/charterlaws

[Hannah Bell]

102. 1) I said nothing like "there aren't legal differences in the charter laws in different states"

2) i have no problem with your interjecting yourself into discussions. i have a problem with the dishonest manner in which you interjected yourself.
3) i prefer not to have personal information about other posters. if you want to post a school in the same chain or area that your children don't go to & your wife is not on the board of & you have no connection with, i'd be happy to use that as a hypothetical.
4) i prefer to do all my conversing out in the open, thanks all the same.
5) anytime you want to link me to those comments i made about *all* charter schools, in *every* state...

[Greyskye]

86. One other point:

You say:

I will also challenge what seems to be the new talking point: that charters are all different, & thus any criticism of charters as a class is illegitimate. Bullshit on that. Charters share certain specific characteristics & are open to critique on that basis.

Yes, the for-profit charters are ABSOLUTELY open to that critique. I will HAPPILY join you in the fight to stop these!

But charters run by non-profit foundations who are directly accountable to their local school boards do not share anything in common with for-profit charters other than the word CHARTER.

You yourself have acknowledged two classes of charters: for-profit and non-profit. Correct? How about saving your vitriol for the 'for-profit' charters? :shrug:

[Hannah Bell]

88. many of the non-profit management companies have for-profit arms.

there is no such strict dividing line as you make out.

[Greyskye]

93. That is not the case in California.

http://www.publiccharters.org/charterlaws/state/CA

I see you live in Washington state, where charters aren't allowed. I'm curious about your experience with charters, and the reason for your passion on the subject.

Perhaps the traditional public school system in Washington isn't as broken as the public school system is in California? http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/states/ Comparing Washington and California, it's evident that your public schools in Washington are doing a much better job then ours are. Congratulations! Until the California system can keep up with yours, we need charters.

[Hannah Bell]

94. you notice my wording: "many". Many. Many, Many.

if education in california is "broken," it's by the will of its rulers.

california led the world in education in my lifetime, & i'm well aware of the DELIBERATE takedown that began with Reagan.

[mzteris]

83. you got it, greyskye -

there is no point.

:(

[Hannah Bell]

92. no point in you repeatedly posting information that's false, you mean?

i agree, why do you keep doing it?

no one believes you.

because it's not true.

[Hannah Bell]

97. link me to those comments, about problems of ALL charters in EVERY state.

The thrust of my comments is always the same: the charter school "movement" is backed by BIG CAPITAL, in its own interest.

The fact that i post dirt on particular charter schools is a reaction to two things:

1. Thirty years of anti-public school propaganda that brought us to this point, which used precisely the same method, and
2. The habits of a particular poster in attacking public schools.



It's quite well-known that if you highlight mostly the bad things about people, institutions or whatever, most people will eventually come to believe the person or institution is bad.

Our owners know this very well, & think long term: thus the thirty years war on public education, social security, public employees, & in fact, all public institutions.

I use the methods i was taught by the rulers of the world.

[mzteris]

7. Quality and Charter Achievement

Quality and accountability are the foundation of high performing charter schools.

". . .The charter movement must look inward at its schools, authorizers, state associations, and beliefs and habits of mind, so that nothing gets in the way of pursuing higher student achievement.

While other issues also need to be addressed – such as the discrepancy in funding between charters and non-charters – charter supporters must understand and acknowledge that nothing will affect charter schools’ future success more than the movement’s commitment to quality and the actions that it is willing to take to ensure that charter schools take responsibility for their students’ success.

. . . While test results are critical indicators of success, additional factors should also be considered when assessing the overall performance of public charter schools. One such factor is student, parent, and teacher satisfaction with public charter schools. In one of the most consistent findings about charters, survey after survey have shown high levels of satisfaction among students, parents, and teachers regarding their charter schools.

Another factor to consider when examining charter performance is how well charters are achieving their mission-related goals. For example, some charters focus on serving student populations currently under-served in the community, such as teen parents, dropouts, or gifted and talented students. Others seek to offer a schooling approach, such as Montessori, different from the local public schools. Aspects of such mission-related goals can be measured via retention, graduation, and college-acceptance rates, disciplinary incidents, and waiting lists. "


Edit to add this snip: Seven Principles of Quality Chartering

* Quality is more important than quantity. Growth is not an end in itself.
* The primary aim of charter schools is to pursue academic achievement for all students. Non-academic goals are important but do not, by themselves, justify renewal.
* Charter schools must achieve at high levels; it is not enough to provide something marginally better than failing neighboring schools.
* Charter accountability must be both internal and external.
* People matter. There is no foolproof charter model. A high priority must be placed on evaluating and mentoring those who lead and teach in charter schools.
* Since charter schools are public schools, the students who attend them are entitled to the same level of financial support as students in other public schools.
* Every kind of organization that supports or represents charter schools should be a force for quality.

(end edit)
http://www.publiccharters.org/issues/qualitycharter



Human capital is a good phrase . . It replaces "personnel" or "workers" or "employees". It elevates the value of the PEOPLE who are doing the job. Maybe having been in HUMAN RESOURCES helps me to understand this concept in the way it is intended and not as some insult.



Oh - and let's not get into a "charter school" scandals vs. traditional . . . there far more traditional public school SCANDALS that you can ever find about charters...

[mzteris]

8. sure about that?

2008-2009 year
June 10: Seventeen Public Charter Schools Make Newsweek’s List of Top 100 U.S. High Schools
Results Surpass Charters’ 5% Share of All High Schools

Washington, D.C. - Seventeen public charter schools are among the nation’s 100 best high schools according to Newsweek’s annual report. Charter high schools comprise only 5.5% of high schools nationwide and enroll approximately 400,000 students in grades 9-12 compared with 14,000,000 students enrolled in traditional district public schools according to the National Alliance for Public Charter Schools.

“Once again, we see charter schools over-represented in a listing of the nation’s top-performing public schools – further evidence that the charter model of innovation and accountability works,” said Nelson Smith President and CEO of the National Alliance for Public Charter Schools. He added, “Newsweek’s analysis shows that these great schools set high expectations and focus every effort on success.”

The listings follow:

Charter Schools on Newsweek’s The Top of The Class List : 1-100:
Rank School Name Location
5 BASIS Charter Tucson, AZ
9 North Hills Prep Irving, TX
10 Preuss UCSD La Jolla, CA
26 Signature ** Evansville, IN
27 Sturgis Charter Public Hyannis, MA
33 Raleigh Charter Raleigh, NC
39 Pacific Collegiate Santa Cruz, CA
51 Benjamin Franklin New Orleans, LA
61 Peak to Peak Charter Lafayette, CO
80 YES Prep Southeast Houston, TX
84 MATCH Charter Boston, MA
87 KIPP Houston Houston, TX
30 Northcoast Preparatory Arcata, CA
& Performing Arts
56 Hawthorne Math Hawthorne, CA
& Science Academy
89 Northland Prep Academy Flagstaff, AZ
90 Walton Marietta, GA
93 Mystic Valley Regional Charter Malden, MA

Rankings for all 1,500 schools and methodology for the report can be viewed on line at: http://www.newsweek.com/id/201160.

Charter schools are independent public schools free to be more innovative and are held accountable for improved student achievement. During the 2008-2009 school year 1.4 million students in 40 states and the District of Columbia were enrolled in 4,618 charter schools. For charter school statistics by state visit: http://www.publiccharters.org/states.


****
2007-2008
16 Public Charter Schools Rank in Top 100 U.S. High Schools
December 10, 2009
U.S. News & World Report Results Show Charters Above 5.5% Share of All High Schools

Washington, D.C. - Sixteen public charter schools rank in the country’s top 100 high schools, according to an annual survey released today by U.S. News & World Report. The National Alliance for Public Charter Schools reports that charter high schools represent 5.5% of the nation’s high schools and enroll about 586,434 students in grades 9-12 while traditional district schools enroll 15,773,663.

“High-quality public charter schools are consistently over-represented in rankings of top American high schools showing that the charter model of innovation and accountability works,” said National Alliance for Public Charter Schools President and CEO Nelson Smith. “The Alliance congratulates the charter school communities that have earned this designation through a relentless focus on quality and success.”


The survey’s methodology analyzed data from the 2007-2008 school year for 21,786 public high schools in 48 states using a three-step process based on student achievement, improvement-over-time measured by state proficiency standards and the schools’ success in preparing students for college-level work. http://www.publiccharters.org/node/1315

***
2006-2007
Charter High Schools are 5% of High Schools Nationwide, but 18% of the Top 100 High Schools
December 5, 2008
According to U.S. News and World Report Survey

(Washington D.C. 12/5/08) – Eighteen public charter schools are among the country’s top 100 high schools, despite constituting 5% of schools nationwide, according to a comprehensive survey released today by U.S. News and World Reports, the National Alliance for Public Charter Schools announced today.

The rankings will appear in editions of U.S. News and World Reports published this coming Monday, December 8. It is available on-line at

According to U.S News, the survey’s methodology was developed by Standard and Poor’s education research firm School Evaluation Service. The survey analyzed data from the 2006-2007 school year for 21,069 public high schools in 48 states using a three-step process based on student achievement and improvement-over-time according to state proficiency standards and the schools’ success in preparing students for college-level work. More details on the methodology is available at http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/high-schools/2008/12/04/americas-best-high-schools-methodology.html

http://www.usnews.com/sections/education/high-schools/index.html.

# # #

The National Alliance for Public Charter Schools (www.publiccharters.org) is the national nonprofit organization committed to advancing the charter school movement. The Alliance provides assistance to state charter school associations and resource centers, develops and advocates for improved public policies, and serves as the united voice for this large and diverse movement. Currently, more than 1.4 million students attend 4,600 public charter schools in 40 states and the District of Columbia. The first charter school opened in Minnesota in 1992. Growth has risen sharply recently, with over 1,000 schools opening in the past three years.

[RetAZEd]

69. Charter Schools

Hola! I finally signed up here after reading the ED threads for a few weeks. I want to put in my 2 cents on charters. Basis is a charter in Tucson that is listed #5 in top schools. I knew many kids who went to Basis from my excellent elementary school. Basis's model is the European, accelerated curriculum model. So if your entire enrollment consists of students who are willing to do three hours of homework a night and know that if they don't keep up, they WILL FLUNK OUT, that makes it impossible to compare it to an average public school. I've also had experience with charters at the other end, padding their daily count and cheating on tests. My husband worked at one for recovering addicts. They thought it was fine to let the kids go out on the back patio and smoke cigarettes because it kept them enrolled. When my husband,(his first teaching job) pointed out to them it was illegal and he would inform the authorities if they continued to allow it, his performance reviews went from glowing to bad.
There are good and bad charter & regular public schools. The bad thing is how educators focus on their personal experiences while ignoring data that indicates things might be different. Oh, and the charter school that wanted to allow smoking was run by the for-profit Leona Group, incorporated in Michigan (even though this is AZ) Also, the founders of BASIS just more than doubled their salaries to more than 300,000. And they outsource their accounting to a relative in Europe.

I could go on with more things I've been reading lately. I would recommend the blog, Schools Matter, to read some interesting things on charters. I think everyone needs to remember, charters have open doors to everyone, but they often have even wider exit doors. Someone here said the public schools force kids out. They really can't in the way charters can.
That's because they can self select for students and families willing to "get with the program'.

[Hannah Bell]

78. Things "might" be different, but will not be different, because quality education isn't the aim.

PROFIT & destruction of the very idea of public education is the aim.

[Greyskye]

81. When you broad-brush all charters like that, you are lying.

Sorry, but there is simply no other way to say it.

Or are all the contributors to Wikipedia involved in a massive Charter School conspiracy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_school

[Hannah Bell]

87. I'm not talking about your boutique charter. I'm talking about charters generally, & that's

what's going to happen, pretend as you might that this trajectory is about groups of independent people in various locations doing their own thing.

IT'S NOT. IT'S ABOUT NETWORKS OF HIGHLY AFFILIATED BIG CAPITAL PUSHING FOR A RESULT THAT WILL BENEFIT THEM.

The fact that Mr. Smith out in podunksville likes his nice boutique charter is completely irrelevant to that trajectory.

[Greyskye]

90. 5 schools, 1000 students, 2 counties, 4 school districts...

...just for the charter schools under this network. Our tri-county area has six other similar charter schools. All of them admit students based on lottery; no 'cherry picking' allowed.

Boutique? I think not.

[Hannah Bell]

91. whatever. 1000 students. it's not about your 1000 students.

[proud2BlibKansan]

82. Schools Matter is not reliable

They posted inaccurate information about my school district. I posted 2 comments asking where they got this information and both were deleted. Then I emailed the author and my email was returned as spam.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[RetAZEd]

79. additional fact

I thought of one fact I wanted to add. The list of top schools had a KIPP school in Houston. I read that over 50% of AA males who enter the KIPP Oakland school in 5th grade, leave by 8th grade. That's what I mean by a wide-open exit door. In fact, they have counselors who encourage struggling students to rethink their school choice. Make no mistake, I'm for choice. What I am not for is comparing apples to oranges. Come on people, teachers teach the scientific method. They should know you cannot make an accurate comparison when there are so many variables not accounted for.

I would also recommend that people who want to find out what Arnie Duncan did to the Chicago Public Schools should read the diaries by HydeParkJohnny at DKos.

[Greyskye]

85. Welcome to DU.

I completely agree with your comments regarding comparisons between schools and the methods used to obtain them.

My wife is a (non-profit public) charter school teacher. Her advice to anyone when they are discussing charter schools, is not to compare charter schools in different states. Because the regulatory and oversight laws vary so wildly from state to state, she says that comparing charter schools across state lines is like comparing "apples to oranges to peanuts".

[Greyskye]

99. Final Thoughts.

As this has basically turned into a screaming match of "yes it does!" vs. "no it doesn't!", I'm just going to leave a couple final thoughts for anyone who has trudged through this morass of a thread.

I personally believe that some for-profit 'charter' school corporations are only in it for the money, and don't care about the educational services they provide.

I also personally believe that there are many, perhaps a majority of public, non-profit charters, run by non-profit foundations and local school boards, which do an amazing, much needed job of providing an alternative to traditional public school education. Wikipedia has a good write-up on charters, and outlines both the good points, as well as the criticisms of some charters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_school. (And please remember that vouchers have nothing to do with public charter schools!)

Laws governing charter schools vary incredibly across state lines. I'm fortunate enough to live in one of the better states as far as charter regulations go. Here is a great resource that allows you to see how your state ranks as far as how well developed its' charter legal code is, as well as comparing public and charter historical test scores: http://www.publiccharters.org/ Please don't compare your charter experience, good or bad, with a charter from a different state. They are legally different beasts.

Finally, if you live in a state which does not regulate its' charters well, such as New York and Florida, I have some advice. Work to get the laws changed and strengthened! Make sure that the charters are held accountable; and change your state laws in order to keep out private for-profit charters. Don't try to gin-up public sentiment in order to rally an angry mob. That's just sad.

[Starry Messenger]

100. That Public Charters website--interesting.

http://www.publiccharters.org/about/board

Board of Directors

The Board of Directors of the National Alliance for Public Charter Schools is comprised of some of the most respected and experienced names in the charter school world, including school leaders, national and state association executives, and representatives from foundations, management companies, and other supportive organizations. We strongly believe that in order to serve and advance this movement, the Board must understand its complexities and reflect its great diversity.
Mashea Ashton
Partner , Newark Charter School Fund

Mashea Ashton is the Vice Chair of the Alliance board of directors and a partner with the Newark Charter School Fund, having joined the organization in February 2009. Mashea previously served as the executive director for the New York Program and Senior Advisor for Charter School Policy for New Leaders for New Schools. There she worked with over 100 New Leaders impacting approximately 40,000 students and families in New York City and Newark. Mashea also served as the executive director for Charter Schools for the New York City Department of Education. As head of the Charter Schools Office, Mashea set the vision and policy direction of nearly 50 charter schools throughout the Big Apple and supported the city's unprecedented $130 million effort to open 200 new small schools, including 50 new charter schools. Mashea formerly served as the national director of recruitment and selection and midwest director of business development for the Knowledge is Power Program (KIPP). Mashea served several years as a special education teacher in Williamsburg, Virginia and Washington, D.C. She serves on the boards of the Black Alliance for Educational Options, the National Association of Public Charters Schools and the William and Mary Alumni Association. Mashea has a M.Ed in Special Education with emphasis on learning disabilities and emotional disturbance and a Bachelor of Art in Sociology and Elementary Education from the College of William and Mary.

Joshua Edelman
Deputy Chief, Office of School Innovation , D.C. Public Schools

Josh Edelman joins the District of Columbia Public Schools leadership team after his time as executive officer in the Chicago Public Schools’ Office of New Schools. Before coming to Chicago Public Schools, Edelman worked with the SEED Foundation for seven years. Edelman was principal of the SEED Public Charter School in Washington D.C. (2001-2006), the country’s only public, urban, boarding school and an Academic Advisor to the SEED Foundation from 2006-2007. Edelman started his career as a teacher and administrator at Milton Academy and later became a social studies teacher at Menlo-Atherton High School in Atherton, California where he directed a youth development program targeting African-American children. Edelman has held both instructional and administrative positions in numerous schools during his career, and has served on the board of such institutions as the SEED Foundation and the Center for the Future of Teaching and Learning.

John Gee
Executive Director , Wisconsin Charter Schools Association

John Gee is the Executive Director of the Wisconsin Charter Schools Association. He has held a variety of entrepreneurial and executive positions in the education and technology sectors, most recently serving as CEO of the Information Technology Association of Wisconsin and as a business developer for the Academic Advanced Digital Co-Lab, which creates educational teaching applications. Gee was the founder of the NASA Ames Technology Commercialization Center, a business incubator.

Joel Klein
Chancellor , New York City Department of Education

Joel Klein is chancellor of New York City Department of Education, which serves more than 1.1 million students in 1,430 schools. He has introduced a comprehensive reform program, Children First, which is raising student performance, providing more and better choices for students, and increasing autonomy and accountability for educators. Prior to his appointment as chancellor in 2002, Klein was chairman and CEO of Bertelsmann, Inc., and chief U.S. liaison officer to Bertelsmann AG. From 1997 to 2001, he was Assistant Attorney General in charge of the U.S. Department of Justice’s antitrust division where he led landmark litigation against Microsoft, WorldCom/Sprint, Visa/Mastercard, and General Electric. Previously, he was a partner in the Washington DC law firm of Onek, Klein & Farr.

John Lock
Chief Executive Officer , Project Lead the Way

John Lock is the treasurer of the Alliance board of directors and CEO of Project Lead The Way (PLTW), a non-profit that promotes science, technology, math and engineering related courses for middle and high school students. Created just ten years ago, the innovative PLTW curriculum is now offered in 3,000 schools in 50 states and the District of Columbia. Previously, Lock was president and CEO of the Charter School Growth Fund. He is a successful business advisor, operational manager, hands-on private equity investor and investment banker. Throughout his career, Lock has focused on helping people and organizations realize their potential. He has extensive experience managing early-stage companies and has served as CEO, CFO, COO and as a member of the board of directors for companies that range from technology to insurance to financial management. Lock has also served as executive director and teacher at a charter high school located in Southern California.

Dr. Michael Lomax
President and CEO , UNCF

Dr. Michael Lomax is the president and CEO of UNCF—the United Negro College Fund—the nation’s largest and most effective minority education organization. UNCF provides operating and program funds to its 39 member private historically black colleges and universities and their 60,000 students, and manages more than 300 scholarships—including the Bill & Melinda Gates Millennium Scholarships—supporting nearly 10,000 students at over 900 colleges and universities. Immediately before joining UNCF, he served seven years as president of Dillard University in New Orleans. He graduated from Morehouse College, received his Master of Arts degree from Columbia University and his Ph.D. in American and African American literature from Emory University. He taught literature at Morehouse and Spelman Colleges and the University of Georgia. He served as the first head of the Atlanta Bureau of Cultural Affairs; and was elected to the Fulton County Board of Commissioners, serving as first African American chair. Dr. Lomax is a trustee of Emory University and member of the Council of the Smithsonian Institution’s National Museum of African American History and Culture.

Deborah McGriff
Partner , NewSchools Venture Fund

Deborah McGriff is secretary of the Alliance board of directors and serves as a partner with the NewSchools Venture Fund, a national organization that supports education entrepreneurs, especially those helping low-income and minority children in urban communities. Prior to this, she served as executive vice president and chief relationship officer of Edison Schools. As a senior executive with Edison from 1993 to 2008 she served as president of its Teachers College and executive vice president of its Charter Schools division. McGriff is also a former president of the Education Industry Association and founder and national board member of the Black Alliance for Educational Options. A teacher and school administrator in New York for more than a decade, McGriff held senior positions in the public school systems of Cambridge, MA and Milwaukee, WI. From 1991 to 1993 she served as general superintendent of Detroit Public Schools, successfully opening 25 schools of choice and expanding decentralization. She received a Bachelor of Arts degree from Norfolk State University, an Master of Arts degree from Queens College and Ph.D. from Fordham University.

Ted Mitchell
CEO , New Schools Venture Fund

Ted Mitchell is the president and CEO of the NewSchools Venture Fund, a venture philanthropy organization committed to improving public education, particularly for those who have traditionally been underserved. Ted also serves as chair of Governor Schwarzenegger's Committee on Education Excellence and as a member of the California State Board of Education. Prior to joining NewSchools in 2005, Ted served as president of Occidental College, before that as vice chancellor and dean of the School of Education at UCLA, and prior to that as professor and chair of the Department of Education at Dartmouth College.

Christopher Nelson
Managing Director , Doris & Donald Fisher Fund

Christopher Nelson is the managing director of the Doris & Donald Fisher Fund (the Fund), a San Francisco-based philanthropy created by Doris and Donald Fisher, founders of the Gap, Inc. The Fund seeks to leverage change in K-12 public education, especially in schools serving disadvantaged students, by making strategic investments in organizations whose products or services bolster student academic achievement, foster choice and competition in schooling, or otherwise expand the public’s ability to provide a high quality education to all students. Nelson manages the Fund’s portfolio of philanthropic investments and directs the Fund’s policy initiatives and research and advocacy efforts in California and nationwide. Prior to joining the Doris & Donald Fisher Fund, he spent six years as a litigator at Keker & Van Nest in San Francisco where he specialized in complex business litigation, intellectual property matters, state and federal government investigations, and white-collar criminal defense. Nelson also serves on the board of directors of the California Charter Schools Association, the membership and professional organization serving charter public schools in California.

Honorable Bart Peterson
Vice President - Corporate Affairs and Communications , Eli Lilly and Company

Bart Peterson is the vice president of corporate affairs and communications for Eli Lilly and Company, the 10th largest pharmaceutical company in the world. Previously Peterson was the managing director of Strategic Partners Urban Fund formed by Strategic Capital Partners LLC to invest in underserved urban communities in cities across the country. As Indianapolis mayor from 2000-2007, he introduced a unique charter school initiative by directly overseeing 16 charter schools serving 4,500 students. At the time, he was the only mayor in the nation running a charter school authorizer out of his office. During his time as mayor, Peterson was also a founder of The Mind Trust, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit working to dramatically improve public education for underserved students by empowering education entrepreneurs to develop or expand transformative education initiatives. Before running for office, Peterson built, with his family, The Precedent Companies, a group of real estate development and financial services companies (1995-1999).

Tony Roberts
CEO , Georgia Charter Schools Association

Tony Roberts is the CEO of the Georgia Charter Schools Association. In 2008, Roberts’ leadership helped win enactment of four major bills in Georgia, including legislation creating a statewide charter school authorizer. Roberts also led the establishment of the parent and student charter school advocacy organization “Georgia School Choice.” Roberts previously served as vice president of development for the Dallas-based Texans CAN! Academies, where he was responsible for raising awareness and financial support for 7,000 at-risk youth in ten charter high schools across the state. Roberts is also chairman of the Alliance’s State Leaders Council, having been elected in October 2008. The State Leaders Council is an advisory committee to the Alliance and a liaison between the Alliance and the state organizations serving the nation’s 4,900 public charter schools.

Honorable Margaret Spellings
Former Education Secretary (2005 - 2008) , U.S. Department of Education

The Honorable Margaret Spellings served as U.S. Education Secretary from 2005 to January, 2009. As education secretary, Spellings headed the Bush Administration’s implementation of the comprehensive No Child Left Behind Act in 2001 and the 2007 American Competitiveness Initiative to improve math and science achievement. Previously, Spellings was assistant to the president for domestic policy and served as senior advisor to Governor George Bush with responsibilities for education reform. Spellings is currently president and CEO of Margaret Spellings and Company, a public policy and consulting firm. She is a graduate of the University of Houston.

Whitney Tilson
Founder and Managing Partner , Tilson Mutual Funds

Whitney Tilson is the founder and managing partner of T2 Partners LLC and the Tilson Mutual Funds. Tilson brings attention to key education issues on Whitney Tilson's School Reform Blog is the co-founder, chairman and co-editor-in-chief of Value Investor Insight, an investment newsletter; and is the co-founder and chairman of the Value Investing Congress, an investment conference that takes place twice per year. Prior to his launching his investment career in 1999, Tilson spent five years working with Harvard Business School Professor Michael E. Porter studying the competitiveness of inner cities and inner-city-based companies nationwide.

Caprice Young
President and CEO of KC Distance Learning , Knowledge Universe

Caprice Young serves as chair of the Alliance board of directors and is president and CEO of KC Distance Learning. Previously she served as vice president of business development and alliances with Knowledge Universe (KU). Prior to joining KU in September 2008, she was president and CEO of the California Charter Schools Association. Under Caprice's 5-year leadership, the number of charter California schools grew by more than 300 and student enrollment grew by more than 100,000. From 1999-2003, Caprice served as a member and president of the Los Angeles Unified School District Board of Education. Her career has included leadership roles in business, higher education and government. She also serves on numerous boards, including the Governor's Advisory Committee on Education Excellence, the Chime Institute and the National Alliance for Public Charter Schools. She is a recipient of the Coro Foundation Crystal Eagle Award for Achievement in Public Service.

Caprice earned her bachelor's degree from Yale University, an Master of Public Administration from the University of Southern California, and her Doctorate of Education from the University of California, Los Angeles.

Fernando Zulueta
President , Academica Corporation

Fernando Zulueta is the president of Academica Corporation, a successful charter school service and support organization founded in 1999. He is chairman of the Florida Charter School Review Panel and founding board member of the Florida Consortium of Charter Schools. Zulueta has helped establish numerous high performing charter schools that have been recognized on local, state and national levels for their achievements. In 2005, Zulueta received the "Cervantes Award" sponsored by Nova Southeastern University for his contributions toward excellence in the education of Hispanic students.


Other than noting that Whitney Tilson is a public school teacher hating piece of shit, I will let others draw their own conclusions from that list.


I'm a teacher from CA and our charter school laws do not prevent them from having the same kinds of issues that charter schools in other states have. Are there people involved in charters who care passionately about education? Of course there are. I have friends who work with Oakland Art School and they really think they are sticking it to the man and upending the status quo for the betterment of humanity. Public schools could be every bit as wonderful if the funding was in place to offer the goodies that are now seen as "alternative" to "tradition".

[mzteris]

101. kansas city had the funding -

and what did they "do" with it?

It's not just a "$$MONEY$$" issue, it's a "way things are done" issue. Rules and regulations that have become some fossilized that "effecting change" is damn near impossible.

Oh - and just to make sure some of the interesting ino isn't lost in your post, eh?

Mashea served several years as a special education teacher in Williamsburg, Virginia and Washington, D.C. She serves on the boards of the Black Alliance for Educational Options, the National Association of Public Charters Schools and the William and Mary Alumni Association. Mashea has a M.Ed in Special Education with emphasis on learning disabilities and emotional disturbance and a Bachelor of Art in Sociology and Elementary Education from the College of William and Mary.


Edelman started his career as a teacher and administrator at Milton Academy and later became a social studies teacher at Menlo-Atherton High School in Atherton, California where he directed a youth development program targeting African-American children. Edelman has held both instructional and administrative positions in numerous schools during his career, and has served on the board of such institutions as the SEED Foundation and the Center for the Future of Teaching and Learning.


Dr. Michael Lomax is the president and CEO of UNCF—the United Negro College Fund—the nation’s largest and most effective minority education organization. . . seven years as president of Dillard University in New Orleans. He graduated from Morehouse College, received his Master of Arts degree from Columbia University and his Ph.D. in American and African American literature from Emory University. He taught literature at Morehouse and Spelman Colleges and the University of Georgia.


McGriff is also a former president of the Education Industry Association and founder and national board member of the Black Alliance for Educational Options. A teacher and school administrator in New York for more than a decade, McGriff held senior positions in the public school systems of Cambridge, MA and Milwaukee, WI. From 1991 to 1993 she served as general superintendent of Detroit Public Schools


Ted served as president of Occidental College, before that as vice chancellor and dean of the School of Education at UCLA, and prior to that as professor and chair of the Department of Education at Dartmouth College.

[Hannah Bell]

103. josh edelman is marion wright edelman's son.

Edelmans connected to kennedy machine back in the day & DC/NYC connected.

edelman fils = arne duncan hire.


Joshua Edelman, who came to Chicago from Washington, D.C. after being hired by Arne Duncan, was responsible for the closing of more public schools in Chicago than any executive in the 150-year history of public education in Chicago.

[proud2BlibKansan]

105. That's disappoinying

Marian Wright Edelman is one of my heroes. I met her once and still treasure the picture I took with her. Sorry to hear her son is in thick with Arne.

[Hannah Bell]

104. your attempts to cordon off your state's charters

as somehow distinct from the movement to take down public schooling doesn't wash.

it's not about a bunch of isolated, disconnected local & state charter schools.

it's about a coordinated movement funded by finance capital.

regardless of your apologetics.

charter school promoters have gotten used to an environment in which charter schools got a free PR ride; all was happy children multiculturally learning brain surgery with rainbows & unicorns gamboling about them.

the free ride's over, and now we hear from the charter promoters all the arguments they mocked when they came from public school personnel.

don't like your own medicine?

i don't care, you have to drink it anyway.

[harry_pothead]

107. The charter school craze is eventually going to go the way of the voucher

They'll replace "bad" public schools in low income areas, so that the wealthy suburbs still have public schools and inner cities all have charter schools. Then when - surprise surprise - the achievement gap remains, reality will hit people.