UC online degree proposal rattles academics

[alp227]

Taking online college courses is, to many, like eating at McDonald's: convenient, fast and filling. You may not get filet mignon, but afterward you're just as full.

Now the University of California wants to jump into online education for undergraduates, hoping to become the nation's first top-tier research institution to offer a bachelor's degree over the Internet comparable in quality to its prestigious campus program.

"We want to do a highly selective, fully online, credit-bearing program on a large scale - and that has not been done," said UC Berkeley law school Dean Christopher Edley, who is leading the effort.

But a number of skeptical faculty members and graduate student instructors fear that a cyber UC would deflate the university's five-star education into a fast-food equivalent, cheapening the brand. Similar complaints at the University of Illinois helped bring down that school's ambitious Global Campus program last fall after just two years.

UC officials say theirs will be different.

On Wednesday in San Francisco, UC's governing Board of Regents will hear about a pilot program of 25 to 40 courses to be developed after UC raises $6 million from private donors.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/12/MN581EAQR0.DTL

The McDonald's comparison is right on the spot. The online experience will not truly match up with the traditional classroom environment. Where will be the interaction with other students and a professor? The office hours? Some things you just can't do on a computer and really need to do in real life.

[davidinalameda]

1. UC system is pretty much broke

sad that they're resorting to this

[damntexdem]

2. Online coursework, and degrees, are now essential parts of education.

But they should be occasioned by community or industry need, not a substitute for classroom-based education, nor a power grab by a prestigious (but broke) institution.

We have an online long-term care masters to serve the needs of the LTC industry, especially the nonprofit LTC industry. We have many online courses available to our doctoral students but require that a core be taken on campus -- but offer them in long weekend classes a few times a semester, allowing students to commute from elsewhere in the country, particularly in the region, where we're the only doctorate of our type. Texas public universities in general offer a lot of online learning because of the size of the state.

The various UCs could field any number of online offerings, including degrees, to serve a state the size of California. But I have no doubt that this initiative is meant instead to poach on universities in other states, and may be undertaken from the (often mistaken) perspective that it will be cheaper to teach online than in the classroom. Good quality online education is not at all necessarily "cheaper" than good classroom education.

[leveymg]

3. The important thing is that the costs of credits are brought WAY down.

A BS and Grad School are simply out of the reach of many middle-class families who can no longer borrow the cost. Cutting the cost of higher education is a survival issue for the American middle-class and an aging population that needs affordable post-graduate courses to stay competitive in the workplace.

[Hannah Bell]

8. oh, bull.

[leveymg]

9. Why Bull?

What am I missing here, Hannah?

[Hannah Bell]

10. my apologies. i was focused on a fragment at the expense of your larger meaning.

or vice-versa.

but if your meaning is that on-line ba's will bring costs down, so great, then bull.

that's not the most important thing.

[leveymg]

11. No problem. My point was that if they expect us all to keep working after 65, we'll need

to have marketable skills and additional credentials or certifications, which for most professionals and skilled technical people means going back to school, at least P/T. There has to be an affordable way to do that - right now, there isn't.

Some European countries treat education and vocational training as a universal lifetime entitlement, like healthcare. The U.S. is an extremely backward country in that respect.

:hi:

[Duer 157099]

4. I wonder if we think the "in person" experience is superior

because it's what we have been used to? Same with working situations. We do it because that's how it has always been done.

But look at all of the (environmental) problems that result from so many people having to commute just so they can be physically present when in fact it may not be necessary.

I think this is a good development because it opens up education to more people. There will always be opportunities for "in person" meetings, it just does not have to be required 100% of the time.

This is probably good for the planet.

[mike_c]

5. it can be done, I think-- but it won't be done properly....

I've taught some courses with distance learning potential (i.e. they were structured like DL classes and nearly all the content was delivered online as well as in the classroom). I have colleagues currently teaching very good fully online courses, so I don't think there is any necessary impediment to doing such degrees-- remember, modern learning management software is highly social and interactive, so the average student in an online course might actually interact more with other students and the professor than the average student in traditional lecture courses, especially large ones.

The problem is that most schools implement these sorts of courses and degrees as shortcuts meant to streamline their traditional offerings, and THAT'S rarely a good idea, no matter what the format one uses. I honestly don't have any problem with online courses or even degrees, and I say that as a professional educator. But only if they're done right, which is a butt-load of work for all concerned and NOT inexpensive or easy to accomplish. And of course some hands-on course work, like laboratory work, is extremely difficult to translate into online formats.

[msongs]

6. cool, a master's degree in texting or driving while talking on a cell phone nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

7. Online education is kind of like crack cocaine for higher education

The big name schools love it since it is very low cost to deliver and scales tremendously. They also know its somehow shabby. Yet they all continue to expand their online offerings.

I have taught some courses online...its OK but at this point its not the same as the in person/on campus experience. Then again it does not cost like one either.

The funny thing is that everyone demonizes Univ of Phoenix but leaves all the rest of them alone. There are some really big name schools in the online ed biz. Clearly some of the resistance is egotism, but there is some reality in there too.

[lutefisk]

12. Would that make the "graduates" crack babies?

Not through any fault of their own, but crack babies nonetheless.

I don't like where this whole higher ed online thing is going...