Having athletic coaches as English teachers

[exboyfil]

I would like to get some opinions on whether I should worry too much about the following situation. My 7th and 9th grade children are both impacted by this situation.

My oldest daughter has had the same English teacher for 7th and 8th grade. He coaches sports year round including being an assistant for a state competing varsity level team. I have found that his level of feedback on my daugher's assignments was not what I would expect at this level. Her major speech/video assignment received no feedback except a grade, and her terminal writing papers for 7th and 8th grade (which were only 2 and 3 1/2 pages respectively) received virtually no feedback (three minor corrections of two commas and a semicolon on the 8th grade paper)

When I was in 7th and 8th grade my papers were bled on by the teacher, and I became a better writer because of it. I also probably wrote over a hundred pages in the course of the year which were corrected for grammar and content. I intentionally did not assist my daughter in the proofing of her 8th grade paper to see what would happen, and the coach confirmed my suspicions. I have since gone back and corrected grammatical errors on almost every line of her paper. She has not been taught how to do a five paragraph essay. She has not been taught transitions. She has not been taught how to write to support a purpose. She is a a straight A student (including in English).

I know large amounts of time have been wasted in her English teacher's class. He has allowed his coaching duties to conflict with his teaching (breaking up the class early for example). I think he does have five sections of students, but I believe all the sections were under 20 students. Not a light load, but he has really good kids in his classes with few discipline problems.

My daughter starts 9th grade in a few weeks, and she was originally supposed to have a long-time teacher for her Speech class. This teacher was old school and had the students giving a variety of different speeches. She retired at the end of last year quietly, and I now know who her replacement will be. He is another varsity coach. I want to give him a chance and not stereotype, but it is very difficult. Unfortunately if I want my daughter to graduate from this High School, partial homeschooling is no longer an option. The school in general is good with awesome Science and Mathematics. Social Studies is average. The Art and Music programs are excellent. Of course the sports teams (which my daughter does not participate on) are mostly state level competitors.

My 7th grader has been assigned the same coach which my 9th grader had for the last two years. I am already planning to Homeschool her in English and Social Studies (have to take two and these fit in well together). Since the courses do not go on the permanent transcript, there is no issue with later reintroduction into the school system in these subjects.

[ixion]

1. It sounds like it might be a case of a bad teacher. I think that should be a case by case thing.

I've had coaches that also taught classes that were good at that, and vice versa. I don't think you can stereotype.

[exboyfil]

2. I agree and I think that the major makes a difference

For example my 9th grader's best teacher also coached Junior High Football. He taught Algebra which is considerably easier to grade than English. English really takes the most commitment/time for feedback. An Algebra answer is either right or it is wrong, but the tests can be machine scored if necessary.

[Love Bug]

3. Has the school laid off a lot of teachers over the past few years?

I ask because the problem may not be a bad teacher, but one that's been over-extended with classroom and coaching duties. Also, I would find out how qualified these coaches are because if they've spent the past several years coaching only, they are probably rusty with their classroom skills. Teachers who are marginally qualified in a subject should not be teaching in that subject all the time.

I would also question the school's curriculum for middle-school English. Maybe it's been dumbed-down to meet no child left behind requirements.

[exboyfil]

4. No on layoffs for teaching staff

Lots of retirements though. I understand that about five to ten years ago a bunch of long term English teachers at the Junior High level retired. The individual in question is one of those who replaced them. He has been teaching English for several years now, and he should know better (2001 graduate). His degree is in BA Teaching Middle/Junior High Education. I would have felt more comfortable with a B.S. in English and teaching certification. Guess you can't find one of those who can also coach.

I agree with possibly being overextended, but he makes the choice (and gets the dollars) for coaching as well as his primary job. Since my daughter reported dead time in her class (including the need to break up early to handle coaching duties), I feel the school system has no excuse.

If the curriculum is being dumbed down, then it is at a horrible cost. I know the High School English teachers are unhappy with the skills of the students coming from the Junior High.

[txlibdem]

5. Get rid of school sports

Get rid of school sports and replace them with proper fitness education classes.

Sports in school is merely a training ground for the multi-billion dollar college and pro sports industry. Why are we subsidizing their profits? If they want to burn through a million wannabes to find a few hundred genetic freaks so they can sell commercial time and make Billions in profits then they should pay the cost of it themselves. And don't get me started on taxpayer funding for sports stadiums and the like.

If a coach does land one of these genetically abnormal children, their career is made. They'll ride to a high paid coaching job in the majors on that kid's blood, sweat and pain. If the kid gets his knee blown out or suffers a lifelong debilitating injury the coach kicks him off the team and starts hunting for another.

On the OP's point, I also had a coach as both Algebra and Biology teacher. He was an utter failure at both.

[exboyfil]

6. Can't say I disagree

I guess I would hope for some sort of middle ground. Even though I only did a little sports in school (Cross Country through 8th grade), I think I do see value in it as part of an overall school system. I would like to see sports have the same level of participation/commitment that the robotics, speech/debate, music, art, and so forth programs have. Right now it is the huge tail wagging the rest of the dog.

My one major experience with a coach was my 10th grade Biology teacher. He was not very good (bad actually) until we came to the human body. He did a great job with anatomy. Of course I had an engineer for my 12th grade Physics class, and she was an utter failure (actually worse than the coach). Kind of funny since I am an engineer now. I am thankful for the Physical Science course that I took at my Junior College between my Junior and Senior year. I was able to help my peers in the Physics class. Bad teachers are not confined to the coaching ranks.

Since I am not going to change the world, my primary interest right now is to ensure that my two daughters can write effectively when they get to High School and college.

I hate the idea of publicly supported sports stadiums. The funny thing is that most conservatives also agree with this point. How do they keep getting built?

[txlibdem]

8. It's great that you are taking an active role in your daughters' education

As an engineer I am sure you know the importance of math and science as well as writing. Hopefully they will humor you trying to teach them that as well?

With all the funding going to school sports nowadays (and the arts and others you mention getting cut) why is it that our kids are getting fatter and fatter? I'd rather see funds going to proper fitness programs.

[exboyfil]

10. Actually the math and science classes

are excellent at our school, and both my girls are doing well. Unfortunately, we lost my older daughter's Algebra teacher to administration (how could he turn down a $30K bump in salary), but his replacement is an old school Math teacher that my older daughter had for 7th Grade Math, and he is great as well (he was actually one of my father-in-law's best students in Masters level Math education). I just hope he teaches for two more years so my younger daughter can have him for Algebra in 8th grade.

I view working with teachers as a partnership - they are better teachers than I am, but I make sure that my girls are adequately prepped to learn from the experience. I am also a pretty good tutor.

[msongs]

7. high schools exist to have football teams, all else is secondary lol nt

[mzteris]

9. May I ask why

partial homeschooling is no longer an option?

Schedules can be flexible. Kids can "do schoolwork" at any time day or night or weekend. She's old enough to be left alone. Basically you'd be here facilitator at this point - and her grammar teacher, evidently! :) There are lots of very creative ways to homeschool. . . Du hs'er forum is here to help!

[exboyfil]

11. I want them to get a degree from the High School

That option is excluded if they do not have the credits. They require four years of English (actually 3 1/2 years with a 1/2 year of Speech). The school will not accept Homeschool credits to satisfy core requirements.

[mzteris]

12. many top tier universities seek out and accept

homeschoolers. As long as the information about the coursework and learning taking place is there, the "diploma" doesn't mean much quite frankly. A lot does depend on the hs laws in your state, can she, for instance take supplemental hs classes and still go to the regular school?

It sounds like she's really not getting much of an education there. Does a piece of paper really mean anything if there's nothing to back it up?

[exboyfil]

13. Top tier?

I am just praying that I can get them through one of the public universities. My oldest who is a straight A through 8th grade probably could do well at a place like MIT, but no way we have the bucks for it. She is a bulldog when it comes to working and studying and has a wonderful analytical mind with decent math skills.

Her younger sister is thinking Medical School. She has fantastic verbal skills and a wonderful love of Science. I am thinking Michael Crichton here.

[mzteris]

14. just indicating that even the "best" universities love hs'ers

... so no worries on getting into a school with a homeschool diploma. Hey - there's always scholarships you know!

You'll find that the fastest growing segment of hs'ers is the "very bright". You know those gifted kids for whom there are no dollars and no special classes? The ones who get told to "go read" when they finish their work in five minutes and it takes the rest of the class 40. The ones who the teacher tells to "stop confusing the other students" by asking those kind of questions, or told "you're not supposed to KNOW that yet. . . "

[Goblinmonger]

15. Not defending this guy

but most English teachers should know by now that "bleeding" on the paper really doesn't help most people become good writers. It turns them off to writing and overwhelms them with problems. The better option, which I don't think this person has incorporated, is to focus on just 3 things that you are going to correct to and let them know this ahead of time. Keep the writings they do and correct so that you can come back later and look at different problems. This makes things manageable and lets you differentiate the instruction by class or by individual.

I'm sure I will be told differently by many on here--would like to know if you are a licensed English teacher when you offer your suggestions.

[exboyfil]

16. Thanks and good suggestion

Different learning types process differently. You support my point that Language Arts should include alot of writing opportunities with feedback. Just giving a grade does no good. I am not an English teacher, but I know what worked for me growing up. In hindsight, given today's fiscal climate, I am truly amazed at how much was spent on my English education. My Honors High School English teacher who taught all three grades in one classroom of about 25 had a very light teaching load. She really only interacted with the top students (1 period Honors English, 1 period Philosophy, and 2 periods I think of Independent Projects). She definitely was of the bleed on the paper school which worked well for these high performing kids. I was very happy with my B in the class, and I learned far more about the demands of college in that class than any other class (which is funny because I became an engineer and never took another English class). I hated her guts in High School, but I am very thankful for her now.