May not be right place for this but...when should a kid be able to read?

[dmallind]

Or, to be more precise, what is the average age at which a kid should be expected to be able to read on their own. I assume by "a kid" the qualifiers are unnecessary, but I am trying to forestall unhelpful "it depends on how bright the kid is" answers.

Maybe I am misremembering, optimistically as most people do, my own childhood, but I am 100% sure I was reading by 5 and pretty sure part of my nursery school class was reading. I think I even remember my teachers saying they expected (the equivalent of) first graders to be sent to school for the first time knowing their alphabet and reading simple words. Now I just skimmed an article that says the HOPE is kids should read by second grade/age seven.

Time difference (early 70s)? Nationality difference (UK)? Bad memory on my part? Pedagogical difference in sequence of teaching so other stuff "drops in" before reading that used to be after? Other?

[Common Sense Party]

1. EVERY kid is different.

Usually around kindergarten or 1st grade is average. Some read much sooner, some much, much later.

[dmallind]

2. So again speaking of averages, how do we expect to teach around that?

Yes individual teaching is great and all that, but it's nigh on impossible to teach from written material when kids can't read, and nigh on impossible I would imagine to keep the interest and challenge up for kids who can if you rely on verbal teaching.

Again I want to get past the truisms on variation to expectations and when curriculum development should expect reading.

[madfloridian]

5. "past the truisms on variation to expectations"

One can try to do that, but in the end you can only get just so much out of a child. Capabilities are different.

Years ago they were expected to read by the middle of first grade. Then as all schools began to add kindergartens, they gradually moved it to up late kindergarten....at least in our area.

If one allows for differences, then some learn at age 4 or 5 very easily...and others struggle even in 2nd grade or longer.

[LWolf]

7. If you want to make sure that every kid can read

before developing written material, then age 7 or 8. Many, even most, will be reading before then, but if you want all, you'll delay it.

The reality of good teaching is that we don't rely on any one resource or method to deliver curriculum. Multiple resources in multiple formats, and multiple delivery systems.

Because our classes are never standardized. We always have students at different levels, who have different needs, and we always will. They're people, not hardware.

[mzteris]

21. see? that's what I really like about you LWolf -

I bet you're an awesome teacher!!

[LWolf]

23. I do my best,

for my students' sakes.

For mine, as well, since a job well done brings satisfaction.

[Xenotime]

3. Age 2?

[dmallind]

4. Optimistic, but would be great I agree. When should a curriculum include written material

for children to use in their education as an individual activity is I guess a paraphrased question that might avoid huffy answers.

[LWolf]

9. Written material encompasses a great deal.

So does "as an individual activity."

Kindergartners can work independently on writing letters, which involves recognizing them (reading.)

Are you wanting to know how early children can be assigned to read passages or stories or novels by themselves, and respond by themselves?

[dmallind]

11. Probably somewhere in between.

I would define teh terms to be

Written material = use of written full sentences which can either impart information to a student or request it from them. This need not be a story let alone a novel but is beyond letter forming. Examples might be "Tom has three apples. Joe has two apples" followed by "Who has more apples?".

Individual activity = the ability to read and understand full sentences and use them in an educational sense. Examples would be able to understand and answer the above.

[LWolf]

17. As an individual activity, your example

infers that those skills have already been taught, and are just being practiced. It's not reading to learn content.

About 3rd grade, to answer your question. Many, or most, 2nd graders in some places could do the above, but not all, and not all places. With your example, care has to be taken to make sure that students' answers reflect their understanding of math, not their reading skills.

While skills need to be practiced repeatedly to make them automatic, independent seat work is not the most productive use of students' time in class, though, unless an adult is checking in with them frequently.

[dmallind]

27. Depends on which skills

If you have never doen addition in your life, but can read, you can still understand the question, just not, possibly, answer it.

[LWolf]

28. And if you can do additon, but don't read well,

you aren't going to do well answering the question.

[burnsei sensei]

6. A definitive answer is impossible to give.

I could identify letters and some of their sounds at five.
I could read at six.
I could read without moving my lips at seven.
Still, literacy is something I continue to acquire, not something I got down and kept the same.
I don't think I've ever been out of the process of "learning to read".
The only difference is that I have two languages now besides English.
But I'm only one person.

[mediaman007]

8. Most children should be chapter book readers by the end of third grade.

[old mark]

10. My wife and I both were adult level readers when we entered kindergarten, and

even though we were years and many miles apart, we both had teachers who made us feel we had to hide our ability because we should not be reading so well at our age.
So we did.

We both have IQ's around 150. And we have thousands of books.

mark

[dmallind]

12. I don't think I was quite that advanced, but had similarish experience

On my first day of school at 5 I was reading chapter books, but both my vocabulary and attention span were not up to adult books by then. Not even young adult really IIRC, but well into juvenile books. The first I remember reading then was Bottersnikes and Gumbles. Not exactly Anna Karenina I confess. It wasn't implied I should "hide" this reading, but merely that I should read See Spot Run with the rest of the kids.

I guess all this individual variation and teacher flexibility to it was not as in vogue then as it is now!

[old mark]

18. I'm near 63 - things were a bit different, especially in the private school I attended.

It just struck me that we had such similar experiences, 9 years and many miles apart.

mark

[nebenaube]

13. It really depends on how much you read to the kids.... n/t

[YvonneCa]

14. No one has addressed reading levels for...

...ELL or NES kids. Anyone? ;)

[mzteris]

20. In my son's immersion school

they all learned to read in Spanish first. They don't introduce English until 3rd grade. It's hell on the "tests", but they catch up and surpass quickly after that.

My rising 6th grade reads and writes on grade level in English AND Spanish!


Not what you asked, I know, but I'm such a huge fan of immersion programs. They are far superior to "ELL" in the long run.

[YvonneCa]

26. I am also a fan of...

...dual immersion programs. Thank you for your thoughtful post on the subject. I just wanted to be sure that the reading needs of English Learners was part of the duscussion.

[MineralMan]

15. I don't really remember learning to read, but I know I could

read pretty well before kindergarten. In first grade, my teacher discovered that I was already a proficient reader, so during reading lessons, she'd hand me a book and let me read in the corner of the classroom while the class was doing "Dick an Jane."

Starting in first grade, the entire class marched once a week to the city library, where we could check out the books we wanted to read at home. I remember wandering out of the children's section and selecting a couple of science books from the adult section. The crabby old librarian refused to let me check them out, telling me that they were "too old for me."

When I got home, I told my mom what had happened. She bundled me into the car and took me to the library, where she gave the librarian a verbal dressing-down. From then on, I checked out and read whatever I wanted. I've never stopped.

[mzteris]

22. ooo - that sounds familiar!

Here's a big "THANK YOU!" to "pushy moms"!!!

[MineralMan]

24. Yup. Both of my parents brooked no nonsense from anyone.

I think I inherited some of that.

[BanzaiBonnie]

16. I was started grade school in the early 60s

I did not know how to read. There was no such thing as nursery school in my area. But I picked up reading fast. By the end of first grade, I was reading at third grade level.

And it is not necessarily about how bright the child is. Many factors are involved. The exposure of being read to is a big one. If is child is not read to, how will they have value on reading? Exposure to the CONCEPT that letters make up words, which make up stories is REALLY big. Exposure to letters and recognition of letters leads to reading.

Then, there are all the things that can go on in the brain as far as interpreting and unraveling the code of reading.

My opinion is that reading expectations are pushed too hard, too early. But that's just my opinion.

[mzteris]

19. when they're ready -

and being "bright" isn't necessarily a part of that equation.

One ophthalmologist explained that the muscles of the eye have to develop to a particular stage. To try and force a child to read before the eye muscles are ready will create all sorts of problems. Most "early readers" have eye muscles developed beyond their years, my older son- for example - had the "vision" of an 8 yo when he entered school - so no wonder he was an early reader.


We do "PUSH" children to read early in this country. In the true "unschooling community", children vary greatly in age. Some are "early readers", some start on "average" - which is around 5 to 7 years of age. However, there is a large component of children - left to their own devices - who "learn to read" at 8, 9, or even 10. But not to worry, within a year, they have generally caught up and surpassed the reading levels of their age group peers.

So don't worry about it. And for god's sake DON"T let anyone make a "BIG DEAL" about it. That only creates problems and issues that may not have existed before.


FWIW - I prefer a mixture of whole language and a simplified phonics - and I helped all three of my children learn to read at age 4 - 'cause they were ready and wanted to.

[tigereye]

29. both my sister and I were early readers and it was a bit of an issue for the

nuns in our 60s era school.


Of my sister (who went on to be a National Merit Scholar and has several Master's degrees and a PHD), the nun's response to my mom was "have you considered having masses said?" :D


For me, I remember when I wanted to read The Yearling way before any other kids in the class, it led to me being tested for "giftedness." I seem to remember reading early was not something most teachers at that time knew how to deal with and feeling like I was different- not a fun feeling for a kid in grade school as I recall.


In junior high, the "read at your own pace" (SRA?) centers were a godsend. I could read as much and as far ahead as I was able and that was great.


on edit, my teenage son reads really fast (like my husband) and kids in school were always telling him "you couldn't have read that already!" (well, yes he could) I joke that everyone in my family has what I call "the word sickness!" :rofl:

[mzteris]

30. the SRA -

the only year I had it was 6th grade. I finished the year's worth by Halloween.

The teacher said, "oh dear, what am I to do with you now?" So I started an independent reading program that was okay I remember reading The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam, and Shakespeare's "The Rose". Some other students were done by Christmas, so then we formed a small "reading group" and continued our independent studies. We liked putting on small plays for the other students.

[txlibdem]

25. Read to your child each night

They will read earlier and it will create a bond between you. My wife and I read to our daughter each night before her bedtime. She enjoyed it and my wife and I both got some excellent quality time with her, putting away the distractions and stress of the day, so we were able to decompress as well. Everybody wins.

She was reading to us before she started kindergarten.