Education professor says Arne's plans not unique to U. S., previously carried out in Chile.

[madfloridian]

Democracy Now's Juan Gonzalez today interviewed:

Karen Lewis, president of the Chicago Teachers Union

Lois Weiner, professor of education at New Jersey City University.

I was especially interested in the comments of Lois Weiner.

From the transcript:

Educators push back against Obama's school reforms

She points out that these reforms are going on worldwide. She discusses the Race to the Top program.

Gonzalez asks her to compare not only what’s happening here in the United States, but around the world, in terms of these so-called reform initiatives.

LOIS WEINER: Absolutely. And I think it’s important to understand that Race to the Top is not unique to the United States, and what Arne Duncan did in Chicago is not unique to Chicago. And in fact, the contours of this program were carried out first under Pinochet in Chile. And this program was implemented by force of military dictatorships and the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund in Latin America. And the results have been verified by researchers there. They produced increased stratification. So I think what we’re seeing right now are the results of that increased stratification, a stratification, inequality of results, because if you think about it, No Child Left Behind is almost a decade old. And what are the results? The results are a growing gap between poor minority—achievement of poor minority kids and those kids who come from prosperous families who are—who live in affluent suburbs and in those suburban schools.

She says it is a way to prepare students for jobs in this economy.

And I think it’s also very important to understand that this focus on educational reform is replacing, is a substitute for, a jobs policy. We need to understand that. Education can democratize the competition for the existing jobs, but it cannot create new jobs. And when most jobs that are being created are by companies like Wal-Mart, education cannot do anything about that. So, we need to—we really need to look critically at Race to the Top and understand the way that it fits into this new economic order of a so-called jobless recovery and that what’s really going on is a vocationalization of education, a watering down of curriculum for most kids, so that they’re going to take jobs that require only a seventh or an eighth grade education, because those are the jobs that are being created in this economy.

That is stunning to hear an education professor say those words, though many of us feel that way.

Gonzalez asks Weiner to discuss the impact of No Child Left Behind on teachers. Again many have felt that way, but it is still hard to believe it is happening.

LOIS WEINER: Well, I think it’s important to understand that there are—No Child Left Behind is part of this global project to deprofessionalize teaching as an occupation. And the reason that it’s important in this project to deprofessionalize teaching is that the thinking is that the biggest expenditure in education is teacher salaries. And they want to cut costs. They want to diminish the amount of money that’s put into public education. And that means they have to lower teacher costs. And in order to do that, they have to deprofessionalize teaching. They have to make it a revolving door, in which we’re not going to pay teachers very much. They’re not going to stay very long. We’re going to credential them really fast. They’re going to go in. We’re going to burn them up. They’re going to leave in three, four, five years. And that’s the model that they want.

So who is the biggest impediment to that occurring? Teachers’ unions. And that is what explains this massive propaganda effort to say that teachers’ unions are an impediment to reform. And in fact, they are an impediment to the deprofessionalization of teaching, which I think is a disaster. It’s a disaster for public education.

She's right about teachers' unions being the target. Arne started out confronting them, then backed off when he got a little heat....but then he was right back at it again.

Arne warns states not to "water down" education plans to please unions.

Here is the money quote from Arne in the Wall Street Journal:

Mr. Duncan said in an interview that he welcomed the friction between union and state officials but warned against states weakening their overhaul plans simply to win buy-ins from unions. "Watered-down proposals with lots of consensus won't win," he said. "And proposals that drive real reform will win."

He continued that theme of not "watering down" plans in more recent quotes.

After staying out of the Race to the Top round-two fray for weeks, U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan is finally starting to take the gloves off and wade into the middle of a big debate over just how important "buy-in" is in a state's application.

Today, in a routine conference call with the business community (he does this sort of outreach regularly), he declared: "At the end of the day we're going to (fund) the strongest proposals whether they have tremendous buy-in or not." (The department invited me to listen in on the call, which was to encourage business leaders to support states' Race to the Top efforts.)

Although broad collaboration and buy-in should remain a goal, he said, if a state's proposal is "more consensus but watered-down reform, that's not going to be a winning application."

This administration is not going to back down on these reforms. It simply does not matter if teachers don't like it, and parents are also getting alarmed.

In one of her previous interviews on Democracy Now former Bush assistant Secretary of Education had this to say.

DIANE RAVITCH: “The Billionaires Boys Club” is a discussion of how we’re in a new era of the foundations and their relation to education. We have never in the history of the United States had foundations with the wealth of the Gates Foundation and some of the other billionaire foundations—the Walton Family Foundation, The Broad Foundation. And these three foundations—Gates, Broad and Walton—are committed now to charter schools and to evaluating teachers by test scores. And that’s now the policy of the US Department of Education. We have never seen anything like this, where foundations had the ambition to direct national educational policy, and in fact are succeeding.

These foundations have direct access to the Secretary of Education, and they are on the inside deciding vital policy for education's future.

Thanks to Lois Weiner today for reminding us that it is a world-wide movement to make schools more profitable and more malleable for the billionaires leading the reform.

[Book Lover]

1. Kick & rec

[YvonneCa]

2. Thanks for posting this. I just skimmed the transcript...

...for now, but I'll watch the full interview tonight.

FWIW, in about 1991 or so, I attended a 'Futurist Conference' on education. The case was made there that education needed to change in order to give future workers (our students) the skills required for the economy of the future. The case was made that high-wage, low-skilled jobs would be gone to places where labor was cheaper...and that OUR JOB, as educators, was to give them higher level skills for the jobs the US would keep here (at the time, that was technology). What would remain here for uneducated workers is service jobs...and that would be pretty much it without high level skills provided by a college education. We were also told they could expect to change jobs about 7 times during their lifetimes ...and would need to skills to accomplish that.

I think we're pretty much here, now. Which is one reason I push education with every young person I know...and push here to be sure Obama gets it right.

[madfloridian]

4. Informative post. Thanks. They started saying our students weren't trained enough...

and I think that was part of this in a way. The negative pushes have gone on for years. A few will get a real in-depth education, others will be "trained" so to speak to meet job requirements.

[smokey nj]

3. K&R!

Lois Weiner is a professor at my alma mater. It was called Jersey City State College when I attended.

[MichiganVote]

5. The only power parents have is to STOP buying into this crap.

[TBF]

94. The ones who can afford to are removing their children from

the public schools. I am thinking of doing the same. We are in an exemplary district in a suburb of Houston. This year they jettisoned art education in the elementary schools, and recently decided they are not renewing the contract of the superintendent who led the district to that exemplary rating. I will vote against every single school district member who voted to terminate that contract, but I'm in a bad position here in a red area.

Ultimately, as much as I believe in public education, I'll yank my kids out if it gets worse. Anyone who can afford to will do the same.

[madfloridian]

6. Weiner article: Think Globally, Privatize Locally

"From NYC To Namibia, Public Education Is Under Attack by Free-Market Ideologues"

http://www.indypendent.org/2010/05/13/education-under-attack/#comment-371027

"NEOLIBERAL REFORMS

Known outside the United States as neoliberalism’s project in education, this package of “market-friendly” reforms includes privatization of schools and services; charter schools, public-school closings, fragmentation of the school system’s administrative apparatus; budget cuts, high-stakes standardized testing and the destruction of the teacher unions as a significant player in education. Given the state of the financial system, it’s ironic that the economic crisis has accelerated and intensified efforts in the United States to push this package of reforms.

In developing countries, the architects of these reforms are quite explicit that they aim to make education produce workers who are minimally educated and will compete for jobs that require no more than a seventh or eighth grade education. This new educational system will better serve transnational corporations and their quest for increased profits. A small number of workers will require the ability to think and be the new leaders of finance, industry and technology. They’ll receive a high-quality education, in expensive private schools or in privately-run public schools — that is, charter schools.

But in neoliberalism’s educational plan, most workers do not need much schooling, so they do not require teachers who are well educated. In fact, teachers with lots of formal education and experience are a problem because they will ask for higher wages, which is a waste of government money. Teachers for most kids need only be “good enough,” to follow scripted materials that prepare students for standardized tests, and these teachers can be put into schools through “fast track” programs, like Teach For America.

ENDING PUBLIC OWNERSHIP

The other key element of this package is privatizing and commercializing schools. Education is the last sector of the economy that is still mainly “owned” by the public, and this “monopoly” as it’s called by the architects of this reform package, has to be broken so that for-profit companies have access to the education “market.” Education is also the last sector of the economy that is heavily unionized, and the teacher unions can be a stubborn opponent of the reforms, so they too must be eliminated, or at least housebroken enough. When I speak to audiences of teachers and teacher unionists about my research about this package of reforms, already implemented by the World Bank in Africa, Asia and South America, invariably someone argues that I’m portraying a conspiracy. Not at all. A conspiracy is secret. This project is quite public, if you look for information about it in the right places. One place you would have found these reforms touted a decade ago was on Wall Street. A Merrill Lynch report issued in April 1999 titled “Investing in the Growing Education and Training Industry” informed potential investors that “A new mindset is necessary, one that views families as customers, schools as ‘retail outlets’ where educational services are received, and the school board as a customer service department that hears and addresses parental concerns.”

Ah yes, I remember about 2 years before I retired...we teachers were told by administrators that students and parents were our "customers". They said we were to please them.

[earcandle]

24. Wow! thanks so much for articulating this knowledge. we had a feeling something invasive... ugly..

was going on..

will make sure "all the young dudes, carry the news"

[glitch]

7. Friedman said Chile would have worked if they'd just privatized harder.

Double down on disaster (capitalism). What a creep.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

8. Coincidentally, I have just gotten around to reading Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine

We are being shock-doctrined, no doubt about that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. I read that book when it first came out

And I am blown away (even though I read the book) to see this happening in our schools. To our children.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. Here's a link to the video I posted earlier

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9070849

Great interview. Karen Lewis is emerging as a great leader in a difficult time.

[madfloridian]

11. Thanks, I missed that.

Will check it out for sure.

[RufusTFirefly]

12. If it's good enough for Chile, it's good enough for Murica

The Chilean naval training ship "Esmeralda" (Buque Escuela "Esmeralda")

(Google "Chile", "Esmeralda", and "torture" for more.)

[Tutankhamun]

79. I googled it. Pretty interesting.

[Jakes Progress]

13. You keep giving us the goods.

But too many here keep ignoring. This will prove to be the lowest point of the Democratic party. Our schools were stolen and the Democrats didn't just sit and watch. They helped.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. They not only helped, they did it.

What our Democratic administration is doing to our schools is far worse than anything Bush did.

[me b zola]

18. And that is the irony--that the loyal (to a fault)Democratic foot-soldiers can't see

...that all of these (big "D") Democratic policies (killing public education, attacking social security, failing to regulate Wall Street & big business, ect...) that they are excusing because it is "practical" will in the end kill the Democratic Party, and their name will be forever tied to these inexcusable policies. I'm so tired of myopic politics. I'm beyond tired of regular people being trampled upon.

[readmoreoften]

25. +1

[Hannah Bell]

128. some of the loyalists are fully aware, & support those things knowingly.

[defendandprotect]

71. ...and this thread now gets bounced into "Education" ... know how many times I've been here? Never!

[Ignis]

86. A very disturbing trend, isn't it?

But I suppose one that shouldn't surprise us anymore.

[defendandprotect]

99. It does continue to surprise me, however . . .

in its overall inanity -- and short-sightedness --

this is the info we need to protect ourselves and

some want to bury it and others recoil from it!!

[JDPriestly]

15. Thanks for posting this information.

Fits in with Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine theory.

[madrchsod]

16. where`s the teachers union haters?...

sorry i`m having a very bad union day....

[Danger Mouse]

17. Disgraceful, but not unsurprsing at this point.

Teachers are voters, too. I just hope Mr. Duncan keeps that in mind.

[GreenArrow]

50. Mr. Duncan?

And who is Mr. Duncan's boss? Mr. Duncan is simply a stooge.

Where does the buck stop?

[libmom74]

19. what can I do

as a parent? I feel helpless and angry at this. I have an extremely smart little boy but I can't afford private school, he doesn't deserve a second rate education with teachers whose experience level and pay are about the same as a McDonald's fast food worker. :(

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. I wish I knew what to tell you

First we need to convince the masses that there is indeed a problem. But as you can see from the replies we teachers get when we post these threads, there are still far too many who don't see what is going on.

[drweinerlo]

114. What can we do?

Lots of teachers are writing to me, asking me this question. First, we need to explain the context of these attacks on teaching. (I have so much to say about that I could write/edit a book - and I did!). And teachers need to change the conversations we have with parents and community, reach out to parents as potential allies, and change our "business as usual" teacher unions. If you are a teacher who is not in a "right to work" state, you are probably a union member. Get active! Insist that the union take a stand on standardized testing, on these awful new curriculum standards that are being adopted like wildfire. Make the union yours!

Lois Weiner

[tigereye]

119. welcome to DU!

Nice to see educators and academics fighting these short-sighted policies.

[Starry Messenger]

20. "Education next", right wing astroturf site

has an article *bragging* about Chile's school system under Pinochet. http://educationnext.org/scaling-up-in-chile/ I was ill when you directed me to the DLC pages last week and I found Frederick Meek, Executive Editor of "Education Next" widely quoted as a source on their website: http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=110&subid=134&contentid=251034 for one example.

It sickens me that Democrats are taking a page out of Pinochet's education system. Hell, page. It's the whole book. When we say that Democrats and Republicans are the same as far as education is concerned it is really not at all an exaggeration. I will never again vote for neoliberal "reformers".

[madfloridian]

95. Two very interesting links. The DLC link I had missed.

But I do know they are the ones who have planned the charter school programs, and they have the money to stand behind what they say.

The first link is absolutely clear what we are up against.

[dkf]

21. Exactly what did Pinochet do? He created grading systems for teachers?

That just sounds odd. Is this supposed to be some accusation of oppression of teachers?

[madfloridian]

22. Privatizing and forming tiers of education.

Here are a couple of links.

http://blog.vittana.org/fellows/chile-far-behind-behind-neighbors-in-education

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=46392

I saw a lot more on my search.

I ran across others mentioning allowing non-certified people to teach.

[madfloridian]

23. You know what? Teachers ARE being oppressed. Do some research.

[Hannah Bell]

30. oh, the humanity.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catshrink]

41. Did you read the article?

Or are you just blindly defending Duncan's incompetence? Again.

[Radical Activist]

44. Yes, and I noticed that only examples from NCLB were used to prove the argument.

You don't see a problem with that slight of hand trick? Simply making a claim with no evidence to support it does not convince me.
Maybe you're gullibley accepting anything that supports your persecution narrative. Again.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. NCLB is still our reality

Obama has put it on steroids.

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. You are going to have to explain how this is dishonest

Watch the video. Read the transcript. An expert in education did indeed make this claim. How is it then dishonest on the part of a DUer to post this?

Your beef lies with the expert quoted, not with the DUer. And instead of posting a reply to the allegation, you posted a personal insult.

This is why so many of these discussions are pointless here.

[Radical Activist]

45. The only examples used to support the claim are about NCLB, not RTTT.

In fact, after making such an ugly claim comparing Duncan to a murderous dictator, she hardly makes any attempt to support the argument at all. Grossly dishonest. But I know there are a few of you who will turn a blind eye to the flaws in any argument that supports your conspiratorial persecution narrative.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. A murderous dictator who privatized education in Chile

I gather that was during breaks from disappearing people.

The blind eye here belongs to those who have blindly accepted the president's agenda and trust a man who would not be allowed to teach in any state in the US while ignoring those of us who have spent several decades in the education business.

[Radical Activist]

53. If someone is going to compare a public official to a brutal dictator then the burden

is on them to support that claim. There wasn't even an attempt to do that in the linked interview. It was irresponsible for the interviewer to let a guest make a comment that deeply offensive without being pushed to defend it in any way.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. I take it you missed the whole privatization of education comparison

[Catshrink]

58. Deliberately...

Can't admit a weakness in the Obama presidency. Or maybe he just doesn't understand education and learning. Or maybe he thinks we can just churn out educated kids like widgets.

Remember the Blueberry Story?

:evilgrin:

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Radical Activist]

61. Not everyone has bought into the theory of a grand conspiracy to destroy public education.

I understand the opposition to corporate charter schools. If you're a teacher you should be able to recognize that the guest should have been asked to show an equivalence to RTTT and what was done in Argentina. That was not done in the interview and your usual hyperbole about RTTT doesn't support the argument either.

[Diane R]

63. I'm beginning to worry that these daily rants against Obama will do serious harm to us.

[janx]

66. Nah. Conspiracy theories are generally harmless.

They're annoying, but usually harmless.

[Catshrink]

70. I'm more worried about the harm Obama will do.

[defendandprotect]

76. Amazing, isn't it? Desire to try to bury bad info rather than face it -- !!!

[defendandprotect]

74. Let's shut them down and ignore them . . . ????

Why should we believe Obama would do anything harmful . . .

like privatize public education . . . which he is obviously doing!????

[proud2BlibKansan]

88. Some of us are far more concerned about the damage being done to our children

:mad:

[Ignis]

92. Oh, screw the children and the future of the country. Just don't criticize Obama!

One has to have one's priorities straight on the New, Improved DU. :patriot:

[Hannah Bell]

100. who is "us"? sorry you don't like "daily rants" about the ongoing privatization of education.

if you don't like the rants, maybe you should try to stop the ongoing privatization.

[Catshrink]

65. For one of two reasons

1) they don't know about it

2) they cannot deal with the cognitive dissonance so it's better just to deny the evidence that Obama/Duncan could be doing something so diabolical.

[defendandprotect]

73. So what was "bad" under Bush's LNCB and privatizing is "good" when Obama does it--- ??

[Catshrink]

75. Yeah, 'cuz nothing Obama does is wrong.

:sarcasm:

[glitch]

97. And it's been rebranded. Doesn't brand count for anything anymore? nt

[Radical Activist]

81. RTTT is not NCLB.

Despite the frequent slight of hand tactics to portray them as the same, the case has not been made.

[Catshrink]

83. No, RttT is worse.

[Radical Activist]

84. You write without any backing evidence or supporting argument.

Almost as if to prove my point. Thank you.

[Catshrink]

85. No

I'm just sick of the circle jerk you and your fellow deniers continually pull. I'm not going to get sucked in this time - the info has been posted here ad nauseum. The problem is not the lack of information and proof. The problem is your inability to accept that Obama is doing something destructive. No amount of evidence will ever counter that mindset so I'm not going to waste my time.

[Hannah Bell]

112. it's an extension of nclb that uses the same tactics. all the language of turnaround etc. comes

from nclb. rtt is nclb accelerated.

cause nclb wasn't getting rid of schools & personnel fast enough.

[tigereye]

120. it is quite upsetting to see business types who have no educational back-

ground at the forefront of these changes and practices. I have a friend who is an education professor here, and she was telling me about the way folks with very little training or background are slotted into positions of power in large urban school districts, recommend privately- sold educational programs/companies that are expensive and ineffective, make a ton of money from the district, and then leave with a golden parachute.

It's very alarming. I do agree that private companies have the school system in their sites and seem to be plundering it to some extent.

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Diane R]

62. Thank you. And it always has top billing on the front page.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. Pinochet? He didn't do much.

Murdered 3000. Imprisoned 80,000 and tortured 30,000 people. Here I saved you a Google: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusto_Pinochet?wasRedirected=true

Oh and there were all those who disappeared.

Great role model for Obama! :sarcasm:

[roody]

46. Did you really read it?

[Catshrink]

48. Apparently not.

Or is unable to process the concept of Obama/Duncan doing something harmful. I understand that. When it was revealed at the end of The Empire Strikes Back that Darth Vader was Luke Skywalkers' father, my little nephew was heartbroken and depressed. (His teacher actually called his mom to see if something was going on with him because the poor little guy was so troubled by this revelation. He just couldn't process it.) The difficulty some have of accepting that Obama/Duncan might be doing something that would damage public education causes them to be unable to thoughtfully examine the evidence that is repeatedly placed before them. My little nephew outgrew his denial and is a well-adjusted man. There is hope, but it will be difficult when reality hits.

[Citizen Worker]

26. One of my college profs asserted years ago that the objective of the Business Roundtable

was to subject public education to a sorting and dumping process. The reason for this is that there will only be jobs for the top 20% of students and the bulk of the education resources should go to that 20% while dumping the other 80%. Just for drill I called the local office of the Business Roundtable and asked for a list of their publications, reports, videos, etc. At the time I requested the list there were some 35 or 36 titles most of which dealt with education. I did not request any of the publications but it seemed clear to me that the prof had it right.

Call your local Business Roundtable office, they're listed in your local phone directory, and ask for a list of their publications and see what you get.

[defendandprotect]

77. Business Round Table is 250 or more big corporations fighting female equality. . . .

and all kinds of civil and labor friendly rights --

Companies involved don't like their names to be published -- I have a list somewhere ...

One of the things that drives me nuts is all the WOMEN buying Hallmark Cards which Hallmark

works thru Business Round Table against pay equity, female equality, etal -- !!!!

Women should get themselves a little watercolor paint set and a big box of make your own cards!!

[dkf]

27. The middle class black kid who became President due to a first class education

Is plotting to educate kids just to the seventh grade to produce know nothings for Walmart? Are we seriously thinking this is the goal of race to the top?

I believe as Obama does, that education is the great equalizer. I do not accept that he would deliberately keep the population in ignorance.

[chervilant]

28. Sigh...

If you truly believe that, I have some beach front property for you in Nevada...

We are witnessing the Great Dismantling of Public Education. The Corporatists have a vested interest in this endeavor for at least two reasons, to whit:

***profitability drives myriad efforts by Corporatists to "privatize" public education, including efforts to define teachers' salaries as cost prohibitive, and efforts to define teachers' unions as hedonistic and obstructionist.

***too many workers competing for too few jobs means the vast majority of our children face the unenviable reality of a lifetime of servitude to the Corporatists, earning pathetic salaries for performing menial labor. Insuring that this 'vast majority' is uneducated or undereducated facilitates subjecting them to this stultifying future.

Since our species is now experiencing change exponentially, evidence of these two aspects of the dismantling of public education already abound in our disintegrating society.

I agree that we should support efforts to effect positive change in our species' evolution. However, with the appointment of Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education, Mr. Obama has demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt that his actions speak far louder than his words. "Education is a great equalizer," my rear appendage!

[tigereye]

122. to be fair, I think there are some educational systems that do seem to be

trying to train kids to think and reason. There may be times when NCLB has something to do with that, and other times when it does not. I sincerely hope that the ideas you note (which have a whiff of Ayn Rand about em if you really think about that kind of educational and worker stratification) are not the whole picture.


:shrug:

[Hannah Bell]

31. keep dreaming those fairy tales.

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. Yes that's the goal

I realize it's hard to accept.

[Fearless]

40. If you think he's middle class look at where he went to school from the beginning.

[proud2BlibKansan]

56. As a middle class kid who went to private school, like Obama, on scholarship,

I refuse to criticize Obama for this. I'm sure he had an excellent education. I know I did.

[Hannah Bell]

101. obama's mother's family has been upper middle class for several generations.

& obama had a partial scholarship in hawaii, not a full scholarship. his grandparents paid the bills.

grandma was a bank VP & grandpa was a (cough) "furniture salesman" (cough).

furniture (cough) is what gave mom her in at the east-west center, ford foundation, etc.

mom's the one who designed & tested the micro-loan programs that are so de riguer these days.

interestingly, bill gates' grandfather was a "furniture salesman" too. in a navy/military town: bremerton.

[dkf]

105. Makiki is NOT upper class. It looks like you can't even buy one of those residences you can only

Rent.

Rich kids live in houses in Kahala or Portlock. Or if you are in an upscale apartment you at least need to be oceanfront.

[Hannah Bell]

106. i don't see any mention of makiki, or "upper class".

[dkf]

107. That is where Obama grew up, in his grandparents Punahou Circle apartment.

My parents bought a better place than his grandparents on one State government salary.

[Hannah Bell]

109. gee, do you think they could have moved there to be near obama's private school, 3 blocks away?

Because before that, they lived in this "UPPER-MIDDLE-CLASS" neighborhood:


In 1964 the elder Dunhams, along with Barack and their daughter, shared a four-bedroom 1947 home at 2234 University Ave in Manoa Valley, one of the neighborhoods that border Makiki.

Upper middle class and very stable, Manoa Valley is one of the preferred residential areas in Honolulu. The Honolulu Advertiser notes that "this single-story Manoa home with its wide-open veranda and sprawling front and back lawns, was within walking distance of Noelani Elementary School, which Obama attended." (Noelani at the time was considered one of the best public grammar schools in town and remains so).

The extended family resided together in this home through 1967. The Advertiser opines that the Manoa era "represents what might have been the most traditional home life of Obama's childhood."




and then before that they lived here (beach drive property):

Obama's first boyhood home was on 6085 Kalaniana'ole Highway in the Hawaii Kai district, about 5 miles east of Makiki. Constructed in 1948, the owner of he yellow, single-story, four-bedroom home claims it's fundamentally unchanged. On the property is a 450-square-foot cottage built in 1953 that Obama's parents may have occupied when they lived with his maternal grandparents (Stan and Madelyn Dunham) in 1961 (the year of Barack's birth).



http://obamasneighborhood.com/pointsofinterest.html


One can guess they moved closer to town when their daughter went back to college & they were supporting that plus her separate household. The fact that they could afford to put their daughter through college & pay for her separate apartment & child = upper middle class.


The Punahou Circle apartments were built in 1965, i.e. they were new & modern when his grandparents moved into them circa 1970.


and here's where the dunhams lived in mercer island when their daughter was in high school:

Shorewood Heights History

In July 1949, the Shorewood Apartments, located on the old Fortuna Park waterfront property as well as several upland acres, were opened for occupancy. The apartment interiors featured beautifully tiled bathrooms, hardwood floors, stunning crown molding and base, and spacious floor plans...



the view from the apartments:

http://media1.px.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/FSPOn6vfBxYUB0EyYHxAjQ/l

[tigereye]

124. but I suspect that even then, property was a lot cheaper.

Everyone wants their child to do better and will pay if they can. This isn't new, or anything to be ashamed of. It's been happening for all of human history. :shrug:

[tigereye]

123. no, MGM worked her way up from a secretary to Bank VP, i think

That's what I read in one bio.

[dkf]

104. He went to Punahou school on a scholarship.

Most of the kids I know who went to Punahou were middle class, but their parents sacrificed to send them there. Funny thing is a lot of the public school teachers send their kids there.

[Hannah Bell]

110. no, he went on a *partial* scholarship. his grandparents paid the rest.

[Diane R]

64. I agree with dkf. Read the chapter on Education in Jonathan Alter's book 'The Promise'.

[defendandprotect]

78. Then explain his behavior ...

[dkf]

108. We used to have the best education in the world but we are steadily and surely losing

Our lead to every country in the world. You all tell me that all we need to do to improve education is to pay teachers a million dollars a year or something but frankly that won't do anything if you can't get rid of bad teachers. Part of improving the school system is getting rid of ineffective teachers.

There is no need to attract the best and the brightest if you are stuck with the bad ones anyway.

[Hannah Bell]

111. bullshit. it's all you got.

[tigereye]

125. you are repeating a meme - please think about it

Most teachers try very hard to educate their students and work very hard to do so. And we have never really had the "best" education system in the world. We've been playing catch-up for many years...


Paying folks (any folks) a decent wage is no crime and nothing to be ashamed of or to complain about. That's how we developed a middle class in the first place!

[tigereye]

121. you would think not- you would think that he and MIchelle as products of

great educations, would want all kids to have the same options.



I"m not agreeing or disagreeing with the OP, just trying to think about the big picture.

[xchrom]

29. Recommend

[olegramps]

32. Public Education is being assaulted from a multitude of sources.

Virtually every religious denomination has attacked public schools as being godless hell holes that are corrupting their children's morals. They range from the Catholic and main stream Protestant communities to the most rabid fundamentalists. Their objections range from charges that public school sex education programs promote immoral sexual behavior to asinine objections to teaching evolution as opposed to creationism.

A key element in this latest assault on public education is the determination of the Republicans to destroy the powerful teacher unions. What is astonishing is that they have able to enlist the support of this administration that sanctioned the wholesale firing of teachers in schools that were deemed as failing their students. The fact of the matter is that in every case of failing schools we find that they are serving communities that are poverty stricken. In every case of failing schools it has been revealed that the majority of the students qualify for reduced or free lunches. Poverty is the enemy, not the teachers. It also a sad fact that many of these children are from single parent homes and in far too many cases have little or no parental guidance. President Johnson's programs that sought to break the cycle of poverty were destroyed by Reagan with his attack on "welfare queens" driving Cadillacs that appealed to every closet racist in the nation. The right wing propaganda mill ground the one of the most promising programs into dust.

The demise of the public school system will inaugurate in a era of indoctrinated citizens that will be an embarrassment to the nation. This will be the new worker class that will be relegated to servitude and entrench in poverty as the privileged regain total control of society and crush the New Deal policies they so despise. I have little sympathy for the working class who swallowed the corporation's propaganda that they would be well taken care of and the unions were their enemy. In most cases it was as driven by petty greed. Why join the union when you could get the same deal without paying dues. These are the same ignoramuses that voted in "right to work laws" that were solely intent on the destruction of unions. Now the very same people are supporting the destruction of the public school system that was a major factor in the development of a Middle Class. Welcome to the New Brave World.

[glitch]

98. Neoliberals think it's 'socialist' and consider it the source of liberal thought.

Plus, a lot of money goes into it, and they would prefer to feed at all troughs. What could be better, public monies for private profit! Hey, it worked for the military and prison industries.
Twofer: tax monies for their own indoctrination.

[JCMach1]

33. +1

[femrap]

36. So we'll have schools

that prepare students to flip burgers and fry potatoes? And schools for pathetically run corporations that have Customer Service Departments...those students will be taught to stand up for the crappy product and to tell the customer that he/she has no taste. And another school with mops and brooms and window cleaners filled w/ toxic chemicals.

It would be nice to have the cashiers know how to bag groceries...you know, don't put the apples on top of the damn loaf of bread.

I think we're over, toast, burnt toast. I pray that the transport lines of Globalism collapse and we can be local again. May Mother Nature shift the axis.

[ibegurpard]

37. exactly...corporations want to control education to produce

unquestioning little drones.

[Fearless]

39. I've only been saying this for months!

Now maybe DU at large isn't going to scoff.

[greiner3]

47. Another resource would be;

'Pedagogy of the Oppressed.'

However, I disagree with the OP's statement that the world has never seen such fortunes as today. Using the metric of a dollar being worth $22.37, Rockefeller's fortune was estimated to be worth over 1 billion dollars at various times in his lifetime. That is 22 billion in today's dollars. Carnegie's worth was close to that. Then you have other 'worthy' ultra rich people who's net worth was up there also.

Just saying.

[madfloridian]

49. It was Ravitch's comment. In the OP but not the OP's comment

DIANE RAVITCH: “The Billionaires Boys Club” is a discussion of how we’re in a new era of the foundations and their relation to education. We have never in the history of the United States had foundations with the wealth of the Gates Foundation and some of the other billionaire foundations—the Walton Family Foundation, The Broad Foundation. And these three foundations—Gates, Broad and Walton—are committed now to charter schools and to evaluating teachers by test scores. And that’s now the policy of the US Department of Education. We have never seen anything like this, where foundations had the ambition to direct national educational policy, and in fact are succeeding."

So I did not make the statement, though I quoted it with much respect to Ravitch.

[Cleita]

54. A lot of failed Friedman Chicago School style economics

were tried in Chile besides education. They tried the privatized Social Security program too that failed, which the Republicans are trying to get us to do here and the so called free global market that is failing both there and here. We need this election season and ever after to use Chile as a model of failed policies that the Republicans are trying to push on us. When Nixon and Kissinger had President Allende assassinated and helped to install Pinochet in a coup, they also used Chile as a petri dish of those economic policies that they couldn't get passed here. All have failed, yet no one has noticed or will admit that those policies are failures. They did make those at the top filthy rich so maybe in their minds, they are successful and that's why the corporate Republicans want to push those policies on us. Bush already got too many implemented like No Child Left Behind and Obama unfortunately allowed to pass the unfortunate health care reform bill that didn't get rid of the cause of our dismal health care system, the private health insurance and PhRMA industries.

Look to Chile for the failed policies that the Republicans are trying to push on us. We don't need to repeat the mistakes.

[madfloridian]

55. Yes, beware of Chilean style Social Security reforms.

And I get tired of hearing that Alan Simpson doesn't represent the president's views. The president appointed him, and he is keeping him on despite the outcries.

If that is not what is intended the Democrats in the WH need to be out in front loudly protesting.

[Solly Mack]

59. k/r

[demmiblue]

67. Wow... this thread has been gungeoned.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jim Sagle]

69. Change we never dreamed of, and would never choose - if we had a choice.

[defendandprotect]

72. K&R -- constantly looking worse than we ever dreamed under Obama!!!

[AllyCat]

80. This is probably the main reason I won't be a shoe in to vote for Obama in '12

Because he is anti-union which means anti-worker. As long as Arne is doing things like this, Obama is against the worker and working for the corporations. This is not a matter of "giving him time" or anything else. He put this creep at the helm and continues to allow him to pull stuff like he's doing.

No, a Repuke won't be any better, but I don't see why I should vote or work for a candidate that does not support my hard-fought rights at work.

[Catshrink]

82. +1

[DeSwiss]

91. K&R n/t

[TBF]

93. Excellent research and helps

us connect the dots on everything Duncan is doing. This administration is disgustingly anti-union, and I can't believe that pro-labor folks will not find another way soon (and I don't mean voting for republicans).

[tigereye]

126. it's bizarre since a lot of union money helped to elect him..

:shrug:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

96. "Race to the Top."

Think about it for just one second.


:think:

[me b zola]

102. Wow, sick and sad that this was moved from GD

This topic should be discussed in the General Discussion Forum.

[madfloridian]

103. I agree.

[LWolf]

115. Why was it moved?

Have tptb decided education is now too controversial a topic for the larger forums, and has to be relegated to basement with Israel, guns, etc.?

This is too important not to be opened to a wider audience.

[Catshrink]

116. No one knows

other education threads open at the same time weren't moved. I've emailed skinner for an explanation and am waiting for his response.

[LWolf]

117. Doesn't a mod usually say something when a thread is moved?

Weird.

[Catshrink]

118. check your PM

[Karmadillo]

113. It certainly is. It's too bad when threads that don't violate the rules are moved and comments that

don't violate the rules are deleted.

[YvonneCa]

131. Agreed. n/t

[Nikki Stone1]

127. This needs to be reposted in some important location

...

[truedelphi]

129. I was just musing over the situation of the Activists in Minneapolis & Chicago today,

And thought to myself, we are the New Chile, home of the "disappearing progressives," and now you post this, Madfloridian.

As usual, it is another "Very much need to know" topic. You are an invaluable asset in figuring out so much of this. Thank you.

With Weiner stating that this model of education was first used in Chile, one has to stop and take a deep, deep breath.

[madfloridian]

130. kick

[Smarmie Doofus]

132. Thanks for reposting this.

I saw her ( Lois Weiner) speak two weeks ago in NYC.

She spoke to a minority caucus of the UFT here. Elsewhere ( Los Angeles, for example) she was invited to present to the entire union.

Seems like LA and Chicago unions are more open to a substantive analysis.

[proud2BlibKansan]

133. kick