Union bashing teacher on Education Nation. I knew it was only a matter of time.

[proud2BlibKansan]

Turning this shit off now.

Some young thing who claimed she doesn't need tenure, because (this is good) she has a union rep who protects her when she feels threatened. She also said she liked the charters because she needs more time to teach phonics.

So go teach in a charter, sweetheart.

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. Older wiser teachers slamming her now. Maybe I won't turn it off.

One said tenure doesn't protect bad teachers, evaluations do.

[dkf]

2. How do evaluations protect bad teachers?

Is it the principals that feel a personal need to keep people on regardless of performance?

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. The principals don't follow directions and do the evaluations correctly

That's how.

I worked with a principal one year who retired in January. When the new principal came in, she couldn't find any evidence that the previous principal had completed any evaluations on any of the teachers. So she had to start all over. And you can't follow the evaluation guidelines and collect enough data to legally fire a teacher for incompetence in one semester.

[Radical Activist]

4. She said she has a good union rep? That doesn't sound like union bashing.

It sounds like it has more to do with the fact that the NEA agenda is being set by long-time teachers who are fighting reform because it threatens seniority based pay and tenure. And perhaps some younger teachers see that making the debate about those issues doesn't necessarily work in their favor.

[Pholus]

8. Correct, sounds like naivety

The instant tenure is gone, teaching becomes a sport for the young only -- long hours and low pay as a norm. Older teachers become too expensive which is what I GUESS you mean by seniority-based-pay. Of course, teachers silly enough to point out problems with administration are gone as well. At that point, wise teachers keep their mouths shut and do what the man wants until they pass the "Logan's Run" age and get removed in favor of the next job-searching graduating class.

Of course what young teachers really don't understand that you're only young for a finite amount of time but you need to work for a lot longer than you are young.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. You didn't watch it, did you?

She didn't say her union rep was good, just that s/he was THERE. And as a longtime union rep in several buildings, I was appalled. Does this young thing not realize that union reps are paid to teach school, just like her? Or does she think we stop everything when she has a problem?

There's also the issue of what she does if -GASP! - her union rep is not able to drop everything and come to her aid.

She also blamed the union for the fact that she didn't have enough time to teach Phonics. That makes zero sense. Unions don't set school schedules and they don't write curriculum either. If y ou want a longer block for teaching a particular subject, talk to your administration.

[Radical Activist]

10. "this young thing"

I'm reminded about the Salon.com column someone posted that was basically about a teacher's insecurities and fears of being replaced by younger teachers. When we have a system that rewards length of service rather than quality of service it's no surprise when those who have served longer feel threatened by change.

[Pholus]

11. Yes, an inconvenient truth -- ageism exists. Of course you're less enthusiastic

about sparring about tenure as a protection against administration mistreatment but I guess you would prefer to address the easier point.

BTW "seniority-based-pay" is your codeword for "overpaid old person" or did I miss the translation?

[Radical Activist]

12. This is the second post where you've stated

that you don't know what seniority pay based pay is. I thought it was well known that teachers get yearly pay increases that accumulate over time for years of service, rather than merit-based pay increases. This is one of the most contentious topics in the education reform debate. I used the standard term for it. The other phrases are of your own making.
I'm not aware of any teachers that are overpaid. There are simply some who are less underpaid than others. One of the positive things about Race to the Top is the goal of increasing teacher pay.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. Yearly pay increases??? WHERE?

I'm getting 1% this year and it's the first raise I've had in several years. Don't even know off the top of my head when I last got anything. But the teachers with LESS experience than I have get a raise every year. That's pretty typical in most districts where they give step increases but don't change the step scale.

And Race To The Top includes money for bonuses, not for increasing base pay.

[Pholus]

15. Nice try. My translation of your codeword IS accurate then.

You see the entire problem as one of clearing the overpaid deadwood out of the teacher corps.

Yeah, there is a bit of that. But it isn't the entire problem, despite what the propogandizers are saying.

I see the problem as administration by people who have moved beyond education and into politics.

"Race to the top" is a little bribe to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Pholus]

17. P.S. You STILL haven't mentioned tenure. What is its use?

[Radical Activist]

18. I'm using the standard term as it's used in many professions.

Most unions use the term as well and it isn't considered an insult. It seems that you're so eager to play the victim that you'll put words in my mouth to create insults where none existed. You're not the first person to do that in the education posts at DU.

[Pholus]

20. So you're going to play the "you can't be the victim cause I was there first?" card?

[Radical Activist]

21. Card? I used a common phrase and you imagined it into an insult.

Come down from the cross.

[Pholus]

22. Well, my radical friend, you put me up there.

"It sounds like it has more to do with the fact that the NEA agenda is being set by long-time teachers who are fighting reform because it threatens seniority based pay and tenure. And perhaps some younger teachers see that making the debate about those issues doesn't necessarily work in their favor."

Your initial post separated me from my younger colleagues, you took out your hammer, and I got to hear: "Tack, tack, tack..." ;)

And you STILL haven't replied about tenure.

And age spots aren't THAT bad. Prostate exams. Well, maybe I wouldn't mind being 20 again.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. Okay I take that back

I should have referred to her as that dumb thing.

[Radical Activist]

19. lol

Ok then.

[Pholus]

23. Let's start this over. You seem to be worried about "seniority based pay". Me..."tenure."

How can a teacher give honest feedback to the administration about what needs to be done when their employment status will hang in the balance if the administration doesn't like what it hears?

Or is that just part of "the problem" and teachers should STFU and do what they're told by their betters?

[Recursion]

25. I don't see how that affects teachers more than anybody else

Everybody has to find ways to give feedback without pissing off your boss.

I agree that public employees deserve due process before termination. I don't agree that the concepts of "tenure" and "academic freedom" are relevant at the primary and secondary levels (are secondary and primary teachers doing original research? That's the idea behind tenure).

[Pholus]

27. When it comes to religious hot-button issues, it's needed.

Otherwise grade school science education becomes pablum when you can't mention any facts that might torque off the true believers.

And that is the real problem with "Education Nation." They like to talk about how far we drag behind other nations in science education but none dare cross the folks truly responsible.

[Riley18]

5. I turned it off. Those so called teachers who say they are against tenure

couldn't get hired by a real public school. Tenure was developed out of a need to keep politics out of education. As a teacher with tenure, I am protected from unfair dismissal at the whim of an administrator. Also, with budget cuts the way they are, school districts will fire teachers higher up on the pay scale. Of course, my district can afford to keep experienced, tenured teachers because they simply stopped our step increases. I have had the same pay rate for three years now, and there is no hope of an increase again this year.

I am worried that President Obama will do to teachers what Reagan did to the air traffic controllers.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. We get steps but they don't change the scale

So once you get to the highest step, you're stuck at that salary. In other words, less experienced and less educated teachers get a raise while the most experienced and most educated do not.

Tell me this doesn't support an agenda of getting rid of the older more experienced teachers.

[Recursion]

26. Three whole years with no raise?

Sorry, not trying to be a jerk, but it's hard to feel bad for you for that. And you can't be fired on a whim? I could only dream of that. It's not that I begrudge educators their perks, it's that I begrudge hearing them lament those perks.

[Starry Messenger]

6. I'm not watching

Can't do it. I knew they'd line up the useful idiots eventually.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. It wasn't as bad as I expected

But the tenure hating teachers were just spouting deform talking points. I think they must have met with Bill Gates before the show. :)

[soleiri]

24. Their primetime waiting for superman lovefest was worse

It was nauseating. It took me an hour and a half to watch it. I kept pausing it and explaining to my poor sons why it was so freaking wrong.
Basically it was 6 against 1 in favor of "reform".