Our anger must be having an impact on the Obama team.

[yardwork]

The outrage at GLBTQ posters and everyone else angered by Obama's decision to feature Rick Warren at his inaugural has created the biggest backlash I've seen to date at DU.

Sure, we got yelled at quite a bit when we complained about McClurkin. And anyone who complained about Proposition 8 got called a racist for about a week after the election. But this has reached truly stupendous proportions. I can only conclude that many people from the Obama team are quite upset by our reaction, and that tells me that they might not be as sure they don't need us as they say.

When we have threads started by DUers who are close enough to Obama to take photos of him in the men's room preparing for a debate, then we know that somebody is paying attention. Check out the number of threads begun by low-post DUers we've never heard a peep from before today. And all those threads have a common message: "Get over it. Stop having tantrums. You'll have to wait. Obama is making a brilliant move. This will "nullify" (I laughed out loud) the opposition. You're too stupid to understand what Obama is doing. Obama is appointing dozens of gay and lesbian cabinet members" (I'm still waiting for the list of names I requested in response to those posts).

Gosh. Do you think that some people might be a little upset with us? Why would they care so much if we are (1) Unimportant (2) Perverts?

I'm starting to feel like responding to a lot of these threads by exclaiming, "Oh my God. You really do care!" Except that I don't care enough about them to care that they care. If you follow me (and you probably do, if you are GLBTQ or a human rights supporter).

Since it's against DU rules to say this in response to a post, let me just say it here, kind of a general statement: If you don't think that gay rights matter, fuck you. If you don't think that GLBTQ people matter to your candidate, fuck you. If you think I'm going to continue handing over money and spending my time volunteering for politicians who treat me with disrespect, fuck you. If you think I have nobody else to vote for, fuck you.

I've always called myself a socialist anyway. Now that I'm officially part of the "far left" (anyone supporting gay rights is now "the far left," per DU) maybe I should start voting that way.

Oh, and to anyone getting ready to piss on this thread - fuck you.

[musette_sf]

1. K&R

and btw, i always like your posts. good on you.

[yardwork]

7. Thank you. I always like yours!

[glowing]

2. Well, I have a feeling, the Pugs are dead and the Dems are compromised

with Centrists, blue dogs, and DLC... I have a feeling a Left group is on the horizon.. and my children will be looking at Dems like they are the pugs.. and there is a Social and Just Party or something like that. I'm more of a socialist too. Moderate capitalism, no one left on the streets, without food or home, or without education and medical care. A more perfect union, money be damned.

[Bobbieo]

9. Are the Pugs really dead? George still has another month to do all kinds of damage to our country

and the planet. Supposin' he decides he doesn't want to leave the White House? "Jeez, they hate Obama as much as they hate me - think I'll stay here."

[yardwork]

11. No chance. Obama is riding a wave. He could have done a lot of good for GLBTQ. He spat at us.

[IndianaGreen]

3. Everybody hated ACT UP in the 1980s

but ACT UP's tactics brought attention to the threat of HIV to a nation in denial, convinced that AIDS was a gay disease. "Another Infected Dick Sucker" were the words I heard used in the medical community to describe this strange disease that was killing gays. They haven't mocked HIV patients in years, and ACT UP played a key role in waking the nation up.

Now we find ourselves being hated by people that don't want to hear about marriage rights for gays and lesbians. Too fraking bad!

[readmoreoften]

34. They always "hate you" until they agree. Then they say "but why did you have to be so shrill?"

That's how it works. First they think you're ridiculous and offensive. Then they say they agree but they disagree with your tactics. Then they realize that you're using the only tactics that work and they join the fight.

[yardwork]

43. History proves that theory, and that's why I started this thread.

I was feeling discouraged and suddenly I realized that all this noise means that a bunch of folks apparently do care what we think, despite their efforts to demean us. Why would they care so much if we were totally unimportant?

Then I saw the nasty thread started by the poster who seems to be among Obama's inner circle and it clicked.

[jaundicedi]

4. I just feel like he's pissing on the base...

that got him elected. Mind you I never was a starry-eyed Obama supporter. I said "Empty suit and a smile" when I saw him and hoped I was wrong. Given the alternative it didn't matter. Thing is he has the clearest mandate in decades. He could get away with making Dennis Kucinich secretary of HEW and he lurches to the Fox News defined "center". We need bold strokes and creative thinking to repair the damage done over the last 8 years.

[yardwork]

13. That's what is so discouraging. Obama doesn't need Rick Warren.

Warren betrayed Obama once before, and he'll do it again. But I think that Obama decided that it was worth a few more votes. He figures he's got ours signed sealed delivered.

[Donnachaidh]

20. welcome to DU jaundicedi!

:thumbsup: :hi:

[jaundicedi]

29. Thank you from an old Leftie.

[readmoreoften]

37. Thanks for being an old leftie....

;)

[glitch]

27. Well said and Welcome to DU! "he has the clearest mandate in decades. He could get away with making

Dennis Kucinich secretary of HEW and he lurches to the Fox News defined "center". We need bold strokes and creative thinking to repair the damage done over the last 8 years."

I understand his being cautious to placate the opposition a bit while he gears up. But no one respects over-cautious (aka pandering to the far right). Not his base and especially not his opponents.

[readmoreoften]

35. Welcome!

:hi:

[otohara]

90. Starry-Eyed No More

this one hurts -

Boo on this terrible decision and response.

[LeftCoast]

5. I agree with a lot of what you say

Personally, I doubt anyone close to Obama is posting to DU. I do think that the one good thing about all this has been that Obama had to come out a forcefully reiterate his support of Gays and Lesbians. It's the one silver lining in all of this.

[yardwork]

8. There is at least one DU poster who is very close to Obama, and he just started a hateful thread.

This poster regularly puts up photos of Obama behind the scenes. If this poster is not part of Obama's inner circle, then he knows somebody who is. Those photos are the record of somebody who is very close to Obama.

And he just started one of the worst threads against us.

[LeftCoast]

30. Hmm...that's very interesting

Somewhat disturbing as well...but interesting.

[QC]

62. PM me a link, please. n/t

[Lilith Velkor]

79. I am also curious.

[yardwork]

102. I was wrong. It's a troll. It's having a flameout now.

At least, I hope this will be its final post.

[ronnykmarshall]

81. PM me the thread

[yardwork]

96. I might be wrong about the poster being close to Obama's team.

I might have him confused with someone else, or be wrong about the poster.

[tbyg52]

93. Also would like to have a link to this, please, thank you! nt

[yardwork]

97. I might be wrong.

[tbyg52]

100. I wouldn't be a bit surprised, though. nt

[yardwork]

101. I was definitely wrong. The poster turns out to be a troll. They just flamed out.

[mitchtv]

12. with all due respect, and I mean it LC

Talk is cheap

[LeftCoast]

31. Yeah - I know

Just very much trying to find some good in this crappy situation.

[readmoreoften]

58. I think the good is that we're all coming together. Obama or not. The good is us.

Everyone working together for justice is the good. If Obama was a real ally that'd be great. But he's not. Lucky for us its people who change the world. The politicians just do what the money tells them to do. :)

[Jamastiene]

72. Bingo!

If we keep the movement strong and keep it energized, the politicians will have to do what the money tells them to do. That's all they all do. No illusions. :thumbsup:

[Ken Burch]

6. K&R

We were ALL told "don't say anything about anything until after the election, then you can speak out". Then it was "don't say anything about anything until ALL the appointments are made, THEN you can speak out". Then it was "Don't say anything about anything until after the Swearing In, THEN you can speak out". Then it was "Don't say anything about anything until after the first year, and THEN you can speak out".

And anything we mentioned was always dismissed as "trivial". Including cabinet appointments and policy announcements.

[jaundicedi]

28. I feel like he is the last chance...

If Obama disappoints the way Nancy Pelosi did I really believe America will go the way it almost went in '68. Nothing on earth is more dangerous than people given false hope.

[OwnedByFerrets]

10. K and R

[KitchenWitch]

14. Great post!

I lean socialist as well (big surprise, huh?)

[yardwork]

15. Cheers!

[peacetalksforall]

16. I'm not gay and I am Christian, but I'm incensed and feel sick. Warren is a war monger. He

waged war against the GBLT community and he supports war - death. We don't need more preachers and reverends. We need brilliant people who are for life, not narrow religious beliefs that suffocate us, attempt to convert and own us, who desire to rule everyone, who wish to take over everything from engraved stone in a public lobby to the Supreme Court and a rewrite of the Constitution to legalize and tie our hands with bloviated and twisted versions of Christianity - versions that endorse bigotry up front and in translation. Separate Church and State - SOON.

[yardwork]

17. Thank you, and welcome to my thread.

Some of the most devout Christians I know are GLBTQ. The two are not at all incompatible, despite what Rev. Warren would have us believe.

[Dennis Donovan]

Recommended. I hope their ears are ringing...

...and they rescind any invitation to Warren.

What's WRONG is just plain WRONG!:thumbsdown:

[GodlessBiker]

18. With all Obama's success in gauging the mood of the public, this is his first real misstep.

He failed to correctly measure the depth of our anger, disgust. and total disappointment with Prop 8. That tone deafness on this issue has led to this problem for him.

I am sure that if Prop 8 had gone down in defeat, this issue would not have risen to the level it has. But how many times does a dog need to be kicked before it bites back? We got kicked pretty hard 6 or so weeks ago and Obama failed to appreciate that. He thought this little kick would not be that big of a deal (and it might not have been if Prop 8 failed). Needless to say, he was wrong.

[yardwork]

21. I agree with you. Obama's silence on Prop 8 and the other three states was bad enough.

But to elevate Rick Warren in this manner - six weeks after that man actively campaigned for Prop 8 - is just insult added to injury. And it reminds us all that the Prop 8 campaign used Obama's own words "I don't support gay marriage" in the campaign.

Added onto the unease that many of us felt about Obama's cynical use of Donnie McClurkin, and this is just too much. The last straw.

[QC]

44. I don't think it's a misstep. It's yet another "Sister Souljah moment."

I think we're seeing a bit of triangulation here cynical and crass enough to make even Bill Clinton recoil in horror.

[yardwork]

98. I don't know that Bill would recoil but I think you're right about the triangulation.

Dammit. I was played for a fool by Obama. I should have known after Donnie McClurkin.

[liberalmuse]

19. No true liberal should be angry with the GLBT community over this.

Personally, I feel the decision re: that smug POS is a giant bitch slap in the face to all progressives. I'm so dejected that I don't even give a shit about the inauguration, or Obama anymore. Hope my ass. A person can only get fucked over so many times by a certain establishment before they decide to throw the 'fuck you' back at it. I'm tired of being pragmatic, and I'm tired of the bullshit and the phoniness.

[yardwork]

22. ...

:hug:

I cheered myself up by realizing that we must not be totally powerless if they're this angry with us.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

23. Kick & Fucking Recommended!!!

I couldn't have said this better.

[ruggerson]

26. Your passion

is greatly appreciated and admired. :hug:

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

32. This is an issue that is near and dear to my heart. I was raised by a black man who happens to be

a gay man. I watched as his friends died of AIDS, one by one and I blame the homophobia that permeates this society, sadly much of it in the black community, propagated by the black church. I won't give up and won't stop yelling until all humans are treated with the respect and dignity that they deserve. The hate must stop!!

[yardwork]

36. Thank you. I will always stand up for human rights - all human rights.

I'm right there with you.

[ruggerson]

39. but

you could have run away from this. Instead you want to be in the thick of it, which speaks volumes about your character. Your dad evidently did his job well. :)

[QC]

45. You are a beautiful soul!

I mean that, too.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

51. Aw, thank you so much. Every gay/lesbian couple that I've known have been in loving,

long-lasting relationships. My father's relationship lasted much longer his marriage to my mother. I am truly blessed in that my parents are still friends through it all. I learned what love truly is through these life experiences.

[Jamastiene]

73. Respect and dignity. That is absolutely right.

:pals:

[Hydra]

24. Welcome to the "Far Left"

Which I like to refer to as "The Sane Ones."

Lots of people here on DU give us flak, but eventually there will be but one choice- join the sane ones, or follow people like the Neocons off the cliff.

[yardwork]

38. They keep calling us the "far left" but the moderates have been wrong on everything.

It defies logic but they cling to their mythology.

[jaundicedi]

48. In most of Europe...

the American "Far Left" is the center...and maybe even a little right of center.

[earth mom]

25. I hope this outrage will make the Obama "team" sit up & take notice because

not only have they kicked gays to the curb, they have kicked the entire left/progressive side of the aisle to the curb too ever since the election.

ALL of it pisses me off to the nth degree. Where's that hope & change? That's what I wanna know.

Also, if this continues, Obama will be kicked to the curb himself in 4 years.

[Jane Austin]

33. Can somebody help me out?

What is the "Q" in GLBTQ?

Thanks.

[readmoreoften]

Queer.

[yardwork]

42. Queer or Questioning.

There are other acronyms as well. We're trying to be inclusive of anyone who identifies differently from the majority-determined "norm."

[Jane Austin]

78. Thanks.

I don't think I understand all the terminology, but I'm trying.

[QC]

40. Eh, I think we're just seeing the effects of chronic Kool-Aid poisoning. n/t

[yardwork]

47. My mom always said it would rot my brain.

[QC]

49. In all seriousness, I really do think we are seeing cognitive dissidence.

A lot of people are having their illusions destroyed, and they are lashing out not at the object of those illusions, but at those who have forced them to admit they bought a line of bullshit.

[yardwork]

52. I think we're seeing something else, too.

Several posters have stated that they identify closely with Obama and it scares them to see people angry with him. The strong emotions accompanying Obama's election have made it difficult for people to tolerate any criticism of him whatsoever. Add that to the fact that some of these posters are clearly homophobic and we see the result.

[QC]

60. The extreme emotional identification was there during the primaries, and, quite frankly,

scared the crap out of me. There was something creepy, and yes, cultish about it all, and I found it utterly repugnant, no matter how hard I tried to get into the spirit of it all. I genuinely wanted to like Obama, but between the bizarre antics of his zealots here and the McClurkin mess, I could never quite trust him.

I was right, as it turns out.

[yardwork]

66. I know, and I wavered, and forgave Obama, and now I feel like a chump.

He is certainly better than McCain, but I regret becoming enthusiastic about him. Politicians - meh.

[Jamastiene]

75. I only wish we had been wrong.

Turns out, sadly, we were right. It's downright scary how some people have that don't question "the One" attitude. It's too creepy for words. If only they could see themselves through our eyes. They would be horrified.

[QC]

77. I was horrified. I am also disgusted by how the administration here

just handed the place over to the most glassy-eyed and zealous devotees of The Anointed One.

[bluedawg12]

63. That's actually frightening to be that enamored of a politician

and dangerous not to question power.

[yardwork]

65. We saw the results with the 20% who won't question the chimp.

[bluedawg12]

69. The big lie: he is helping with dialogue with fundys -that is not his job.

I didn't vote for Obama to dialogue about theology, his job is to effect legislation and pick judges that honor the commitment to end anti-gay civil rights laws.

[katandmoon]

41. Fellow socialist here. K&R.

[yardwork]

46. Welcome!

[readmoreoften]

54. Welcome. Socialist as well. I bet there will be more before this "recession" is through.

I was a liberal Democrat until 2006. Now I don't mince words.

[yardwork]

67. Same here.

[David Zephyr]

50. Yes!

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[jonnyblitz]

53. great post, yardwork!!

:hug: I got your back! I am a far left socialist also.

[readmoreoften]

55. Good to hear.

:hug:

[jonnyblitz]

56. oh yes, big hugs for you, too!

a good friend of mine, probably one of my better DU friends, speaks quite highly of you behind your back! :P

[readmoreoften]

57. Ooooo! I was wondering why my ears were ringing!

:)

[yardwork]

68. Thank you! I'm glad you found this thread. lol!

[foxfeet]

59. Great post and great thread!

Love y'all and especially yardwork for articulating the OP.
:grouphug:

[bluedawg12]

61. That was perfect!

:fistbump:

[Maat]

64. I'm a socialist also ... a Democratic Socialist ...

or, a Social Democrat.

There's a number of us.

In Solidarity and Friendship,

[gristy]

70. Great post. That Obama finds today he must defend his choice of Warren is evidence of the impact

of our outrage. Good job DU!

Obama defends inaugural invitation to Warren

President-elect Barack Obama on Thursday defended his decision to invite evangelical pastor Rick Warren. Obama cited the "magic" of a diverse nation.

The choice of Warren, founder of a Southern California megachurch and best-selling author of The Purpose Driven Life, has riled some gay and lesbian advocates, liberal groups and religious leaders because he opposes gay marriage and abortion rights and has expressed what they say are extreme views on the issues.

At a news conference in Chicago, Obama called himself a "fierce advocate for equality for gay and lesbian Americans" and said he will remain so as president. But he said it's important for people who disagree on social issues to work together.

"We're not going to agree on every single issue, but what we have to do is be able to create an atmosphere … where we can disagree without being disagreeable and then focus on those things that we hold in common as Americans," Obama said.

more: http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/2008-12-18-warren_N.htm

[diane in sf]

71. With all the good ministers available I can't imagine why Warren was picked.

Why not someone who hadn't had such bad positions?

[QC]

74. Sure you can imagine it: Here are two clues.

1. Triangulation
2. Sister Souljah

[BR_Parkway]

86. Or the really nasty third possibility - the GLBT community got pretty

nasty towards the Afro-American groups right after Prop 8 passed.

[diane in sf]

105. I don't get the second clue--please help. I think Obama thought he was offering

an olive branch and didn't think through just how badly mainstream Americans would be appalled by this minister's positions (I think there is a deeply felt disgust and distrust of these fundamentalist preachers--their values are really outside the mainstream, but people have been polite about it until now out of deference to other people's deeply held religious beliefs). But the fundagelicals have gone too far--especially in light of the passage of the three hate gay laws, and people have just had enough. You can call me straight, but appalled.

Obama got caught flat-footed on this--very unusual for such an agile, intelligent man.

[enigmatic]

76. I'm a member of the NDP party up here

Their stand on equality is a main reason why:

"Amend the Canadian Human Rights Act to include gender identity and gender expression and identity among the prohibited grounds for discrimination. Support gay, lesbian, bisexual, trans-gender and transexual equality internationally, as per the Montreal and Jakarta Declaration on Human Rights."

http://www.ndp.ca/platform/otherpriorities/humanrights

[JanMichael]

80. I am stunned at the number of DUers that think the Warren pick is OK

I can't wrap my head around any of this-- from Obama picking him, to the lack of outrage among dems.

[Jamastiene]

82. I am not.

During the primaries, we got a lot of new members who were using right wing talking points from day one. They slipped in under the radar. I can't name names, but I see them popping up in threads about gay rights all the time just to use right wing talking points...again.

[JanMichael]

83. Guess I wasn't paying that much attention

however, last night I got a little pissy about the whole thing, and started a thread that was locked after several posts had to be deleted from it.

[yardwork]

85. I loved your thread and was very sorry to see it locked.

[JanMichael]

87. ha! Man, I just lost it last night

the more I read about that jackass Rick Warren, the more I despise him. He is Falwell as packaged and marketed by the Barnes and Nobles crowd--- bringing hate and fear right into middle class America. Motherfucker.

The middle class dumbass sheep don't care about the content of the message as long as they don't have it delivered by a little, fat smarmy redneck-- makes 'em feel all warm 'n fuzzy if they can get a neat-o journal to go along with that hate filled life book of his.

[QC]

84. I'm not stunned at all. He is The Anointed One and we, well,

we're just a bunch of special interests with our pet issues and we keep making the party lose and we need to get over it and so on and so fucking on.

[JanMichael]

88. I am not going to shut up. I think the purpose that is going to drive my life

is to get louder and louder about this sorry assed son of a bitch.

[bvar22]

89. K&R

I don't see this as a "GLBT" Issue.
I see this as an American Issue.
We either support Civil Rights and Equal Protection for ALL,
or we support BIGOTRY.

I don't believe that there is a Middle of the Road solution here.


"Centrism !"....because it's so EASY!
You don't have to STAND for ANYTHING, and you get to insult those who do! :)

[yardwork]

91. Thank you and I agree 100%

[robinlynne]

92. count me in Yardwork! Oh and that goes for some other neocons "sitting at the

table" too. Not just Rick Warren.

[tbyg52]

94. I agree, and I would love to know

some of the people and/or threads to whom/which you refer.

[ColbertWatcher]

95. I will not piss on your thread.

Here are two of my threads that I started to find a way out.

This thread was started to encourage people to help expose Warren's hate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4680741&mesg_id=4680741

And, this poll was created to discuss options
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4686604&mesg_id=4686604

[yardwork]

99. Thanks. I appreciate both those threads, especially the one documenting Warren's words and actions.

I don't think that there is a way out of inviting Warren to give the invocation now, and I don't think that Obama would be inclined to disinvite Warren anyway. If Obama genuinely cares about human rights, he will move forward and make some decisions early in his administration that prove it.

If Obama is planning to use gay rights as a sacrificial lamb to building his base among the religious right, he's off to a good start.

[ColbertWatcher]

103. You're welcome.

I hope Obama does realize his mistake before it's too late.

[Libertyfirst]

104. Yardwork, Thank you for all your hard work for human rights, I didn't

realize until I read this thread how far left I am. I am far, far left. And damn proud of it.