We can't depend on Obama or the Democratic Party, or a huge number of Democrats, to have our back.

[Maven]

So here's what I hope to see happen in response.

We need to get better organized, starting today.

Part of the reason we're getting rolled over is we can't exert enough leverage, and we can't do that because we are not organized enough on a national level. The fundies can exert leverage because they use fear and dogma to control their flock. Instead of dogma, we have common purpose. We need to be able to speak as a bloc, and we need to appoint someone (or a group of someones) to speak on our collective behalf.

In short, we basically need to come together like never before. And we need to spread the word that no party, no politician, no one, should take our money and support for granted. If the national Democratic Party wants to use us for Sister Souljah stunts, then we'll turn our backs and use what power we have in the private sector and on a local level.

HRC may be useless, but Solmonese at least gave an appropriate response to this. I work with ESPA in New York, which is a far better organization. (ESPA, if you remember, set off a shitstorm when Alan Van Capelle, the executive director, said that Hillary was lukewarm on our rights and shouldn't just expect our support.) I plan to bring this up at our next meeting. I think with coordination in our local rights groups, and with the right use of the internet to organize, we can get this done.

I'd like to hear thoughts (from GLBTs and real allies, please) from everyone.

Edit: grammar

[flvegan]

1. Count me in.

[ruggerson]

2. exactly HK

I would suggest, for starters, someone like Hillary Rosen, who is articulate, intelligent, telegenic and passionate.

We will have access to this White House, we just need to use that access to get our message across.

The key to Obama, I believe, is in his second interview in the Advocate. He basically said it wasn't up to him to grant us rights, it was up to us to build a movement to force him to do so by collective will.

Let's have at it.

[Maven]

5. Hilary Rosen is a good choice for starters.

We need someone who is articulate, who has a strong resume, who is telegenic, who is charismatic and who can project a positive image about who we are and what we want.

Basically, we need our own Obama.

I also think we need a really appealing image - not just to appeal to straights, but to get as many GLBTs as possible involved. There are things we can learn from the way Obama's campaign got people organized, even if we're disgusted with the events of the last couple days.

[ruggerson]

6. I've been surprised at how good Wayne Besen is as well

I've never met him, so I don't know if there is any baggage there.

[mitchtv]

3. It will be tough after that horrid campaign against H8

Taking vacations in the last 2 weeks and such, but you are right. Hopefully we are galvanized into a national movement, and it should start with another march on washington, an angry one.

[Arctic Dave]

4. Now your talking change.

[patrice]

7. So, is there a proposal for how to reverse Prop Hate and prevent further such actions?

How does that work?

[Maven]

9. It'll go back on the ballot in 2010.

But we need to be ready. We have a lot of work to do to streamline the movement, to give it some direction again, in order to get ready for those fights.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

10. Just as the Republican party is a slave to the extreme right wing, religious bigots,

the Democratic party has become a slave to the corporatists and the war-loving hawks. The DLC is the main problem with the Democratic party. The remaining Blue Dogs should just become Republicans and take the DLC with them.

[Maven]

12. The DLC is a problem, but they're not *the* problem as far as we're concerned.

There are many avowed DLC haters who would like us to go away. That's pretty clear from a basic perusal of GD:P.

My point is that we can't continue to see ourselves as a small part of the larger Party. We need to be organized independently so that we can fight these fights efficiently on our own if we need to, and so that our support cannot be taken for granted.

Essentially we need to unionize.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

13. Agreed, but the DLC needs to be willing to work outside its own agenda and invite

others to the table that they may not necessarily agree with. The demonization of liberals in the party has been counterproductive. The Yellows, Blues and DLC need to be working together. More now than ever.

[readmoreoften]

11. Count me in too. We need to form a bloc.

I can organize people in my city, but I've already discovered that those who are most willing to fight are not motivated by the marriage issue because they feel that as soon as gays and lesbians get equal marriage, they'll abandon trans issues. The biggest issue here is the right not to be fired from our jobs and trans health care.

My suggestion is that we first UNDO a lot of the division caused by the HRC's non-trans inclusive rhetoric. I've been working hard to explain to younger LGBT folks who are more motivated by issues of trans-inclusion why it's important to fight for marriage too.

This isn't just about marriage and it won't be over when we get marriage. It's about being equal citizens in every way. That's means marriage. That means not being "acceptably" beaten to death on a regular basis. That means access to health care. That means not being able to be fired for being gay or trans. That means serving in the military.

I don't think it should be about "what America is ready for." America may never be ready. We need to make them ready.

[Maven]

18. Agreed on every point.

Marriage is a big issue but there are many others. And even the issue of marriage isn't being handled properly. There are many here who see same-sex marriage as separate and aside from other "real" issues like paying bills and getting health care, who don't understand it's the same issue. And you are absolutely right about trans inclusion. We need a trans person who can represent that part of our community, and that's one reason I suggested a group (rather than just one figurehead) to be the public face of our effort.

But one thing is for sure: the traditional political process isn't working for us. This party is not a true friend. Rather than continue to get angry by these moves, we need to become the "interest group with an agenda" they accuse us of being anyway.

Harvey Milk knew that we couldn't depend on people who had no stake in our rights to represent our interests. That's still true today.

[readmoreoften]

20. I think we need our own leaders and we need to build alliances.

I don't think it's any coincidence that Harvey's first ally was labor. When you're on strike you do not have a good goddamn who is on your side. You want to win. Labor activists understand what are real bread and butter issues are, because they fight and sweat for real, non-glamorous issues every day. They know what "a little extra tax for your partner's insurance" REALLY means.

I was talking the other day with a lesbian UCC minister involved in the faith and justice coalition which is basically a national organization of clergy who work together to fight for labor rights. We were talking about creating a "pride for labor" coalition of LGBT activists working for labor rights in hopes that we can win working class allies from the religious right by standing on the picket lines with them and building solidarity. I think we need a few things:

1) We need a movement that represents all LGBT people and demands Universal Human Rights for LGBT people. I think it's easier to motivate people to fight a war than it is to fight a minor battle.

2)We need to start doing things IN OUR NAME. For example, there are LGBT people fighting for labor individually, but there is no organization fighting for labor in our name.

[Dragonfli]

14. From an ally - A Liberal Democrat

It may be true that "pragmatic centrist" Democrats can not be trusted as having anyone's back regarding civil liberty issues (they triangulate everything and will sell out most ideals for their agendas), it is still a plank of the liberal/progressive platform however.

The part that is still left of the Democratic party that fought for equal rights for all groups, are still passionate believers in civil liberties for all. They are the reason (or their descendants) that many of you have chosen the democratic party in the first place. They stood for interracial marriage, womens rights, and gay rights and we still do!

We are no longer anywhere near the reigns of power within the party, but we still exist and can be counted on.

Consider researching members of that wing of the party for support within the political arena, also on this board I think you will find VERY strong support among us.

Trust but VERIFY of course, many centrist Democrats claim to be progressive or liberal, but are not really, I can think of one RIGHT NOW that has been very disappointing most recently.

It is in the progressive/liberal wing of the party that you will find allies that will help with legislation and/or votes rather than mere rhetoric. You are not alone any more than the black community was when they were told to accept "separate but equal" status as citizens.

I normally would not intrude on a private discussion, but you have asked for input from allies.
I am one.

:grouphug:

[Maven]

15. Thank you, Dragonfli

We haven't crossed paths before but I'm thrilled to meet another ally. :hug: I'm glad you chimed in.

I know there are a lot of Democrats like you, and I know you'll join with us when we need to fight. We need to rebuild as a movement first, to get a stronger organization in place so that we have some real power. We can't depend on the Democratic Party to be on our side. But we do have a ton of people and resources we can use.

[Dragonfli]

19. I have had to work outside the party so often these past few that years I am used to it

Let me know when you are ready and I can help get the word out to the segment of the party I mentioned as well as other progressive groups that are not affiliated with anyone.

I live in Buffalo and if I can be of any help from here, or if I can help with letter writting or anything else I am capable of, please let me know!

Nice to meet you
:hi:

[EFerrari]

16. Can your hanger-on-ers get a cubby? I think building a network with multiple

fronts is a must do.

[readmoreoften]

17. Agreed.

Milk did it through representing seniors, labor, and ethnic minority interests as well as gay interests. It's time for "the us's" to get together.