An Analysis: What The Juan Cole, Etheridge, Warren Story Means to Gays.

[bluedawg12]

An Analysis: What The Juan Cole, Etheridge, Warren Story Means to Gays.

Rick Warren: "I love Muslims . . . I happen to love Gays and Straights"

This stance was big of her, since she and her partner had planned to marry but were prevented from doing so by the same Proposition 8 that Warren worked for,

Warren's sincere friendship with MPAC founding father, Maher Hathout, was obvious from their body language.

So you begin to see why Obama is reaching out to this man.

(In fact, Warren reached out to Obama 3 years ago and had him to his Saddleback Church despite it being a Republican bastion, and says he took heat from his congregants for that step).

If Warren is the future of the American evangelical movement, then many more evangelicals might end up Democrats, since it is Democrats who care about poor people, illiteracy, and AIDS victims.

I came away liking and looking up to Warren. In fact, I wonder whether with some work he could not be gotten to back off some of the hurtful things he has said about gays and rethink his support for Proposition 8.

I've also been a fan of Melissa Etheridge since 1988, and her encounter with Sufi rock is a twist that fascinates me.

So that was my day in Long Beach. It was an eclectic day. It struck me that it was a very American day, and a good day for America.

http://www.juancole.com/2008/12/rick-warren-i-love-muslims-i-happen-to.html


Here’s my break down of what Juan Cole’s story.

Melissa and the fat fundy:

Rick Warren loves gays so much he compares gay marriage to pedophelia and bestiality.

Rick Warren loves gays so much that one of his victims of pro-Hate8 was standing right in front of his beady eyes, unable to get married because of his campaign against her rights. We never hear from Melissa about how she felt at this stage, in the story.

It's true, Melissa was big enough to come to the gathering of her sufi, spiritual leader. She did not go to be there with Warren. She has a life far removed from the likes of Rick Warren.

Notably, Juan Cole does not interview or quote Etheridge’s version of this event at all.

Only chirping boy Warren, playing mainstream power broker, hob-nobbing with the Muslim community, hob-nobbing with a convenient, famous gay person, a choice opportunity to pounce and show, “he’s a tolerant man after all,” he seems to want to tell us and soon to be hob-nobbing with a newly elected historic President. Yes, this has been a good week for Rick, where ambition flows power and money follow.

Ever alert to a good quote that reflects well on himself, Warren seized the moment and Cole obliged, “According to Warren, the two had a "wonderful conversation.”

Etheridge’s impression of what transpired during that "wonderful conversation” remains undocumented without a single quote from Melissa in Cole’s article.

Why we are all now suddenly reaching out

According to Cole, Warren is such an attractive and influential figure, that it was dawning on him why Obama was reaching out to Warren and Cole tells us how he begins to see why Obama is reaching out to this man.

Well, I sure didn’t!

Was it because Warren’s Church is a Republican bastion? What could that mean to a newly revitalized Democratic party and a brand new leader?

Not much.

I voted for a Democrat and I would like to shore up the Democrat bastion, first. There seems to be plenty of work to be done there.

Now comes the wind up and here comes the pitch:

“If Warren is the future of the American evangelical movement,” Cole bubbles, “then many more evangelicals might end up Democrats...”

Great. We could have saved everyone the trouble and simply been one big Repulicrat party from the get-go. Just give up and give over to their cultural wars and we have one really big tent, with women and gays looking in.

This is all about getting voters to change. Except Warren has said there are five non-negotiable issues, one of them being gay marriage.

• Warren has been a dedicated enemy of marriage equality, equating gay rights to incest and pedophilia, and was a fervent supporter of the pro-bigotry Proposition 8. He is against civil unions for gay couples.

• He's also rabidly anti-choice, comparing abortion to the Holocaust (source).

• Just for good measure, he's said that atheists are not qualified for the presidency

• And, oh yes, he's a creationist."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8017838&mesg_id=8017838

Then, Cole goes on to explain to the Democrats who apparently don’t now what we stand for and possibly Republicans who hate what we stand for and don’t give a shit, that, “ it is Democrats who care about poor people, illiteracy, and AIDS victims.”

I guess gays are no longer on the list of what Democrats care for, according to Juan Cole.

Finally, comes the soft sell, Juan Cole was clearly won over by Warren.

In fact, he chirps merrily and ...wait for it... now comes the BIG LIE TO GAYS from Juan Cole: “I wonder whether with some work he could not be gotten to back off some of the hurtful things he has said about gays and rethink his support for Proposition 8.”

Gosh, so many of us wonder that too. :grr:

In fact, many of us have read Warren’s words and know the answer, there is not a snow balls chance in hell, per Warren.

Even if we grudgingly agree to try one more time, with yet one more dialogue with yet one more mega-bucks, mega -church, extremist fundy and this has been tried, Obama and Warren did not invent religious dialogue about gay rights, still, would it not have been more prudent to show some fruits of that hypothetical labor before according Warren a premier spot at our elected President’s historic inauguration?

In fact, no work has been done, other than going to Saddle Back three years ago. So there is no reason to think that a conservative fundy Church, whose pastor less than two months ago worked diligently to over turn marriage rights in California is now going to relent and change his theology and thereby, give up his cash cow and power and book sales, in short, give up his propagandized right wing following.

Furthermore, if someone out there thinks that debating theology with a fundy is the job of a very busy President to be, then, they would be wrong. It is not the job of the President to work on theological debates about gay civil rights, it is his job to work on the legal measures that will change the oppressive laws by using the potent power that only a President can exert, namely, reigning in his own party on gay rights issues, selecting fair judges for the Federal bench, in short, his work is legislative and judicial, not theological.

None of this makes sense for gays. Juan Cole’s article reads like that of a faithful foot solider clearing up the collateral damage done by a careless ruler by trying to put a happy -spin-face on the whole sad debacle of a premature invocation.

At the end Cole never quotes Etheridge, he just “shines her up,” by playing the ardent fan to avert our gaze from the awkward and contrived story of a happy, chipper, sunny California day spent at a conference, while 18,000 newly- wed gay and lesbian couples await the outcome of the entanglement that revoking gay marriage rights has created for them in their lives , their legal rights having been taken away largely by men like Warren and those rights now hang in the balance thanks to Warren and others of his ilk.

GLBTQ and friends, thoughts and comments welcomed.

[Dennis Donovan]

1. Professor Cole is happy because Warren went out of his way to reach out...

...to a group of people that are near and dear to Cole's heart. Melissa's just trying to be the nice person she always has been.

Both are failing to see the ugly hate in Warren.

It's a shame.

Recommended.

[bluedawg12]

2. Warren got the memo of how to spin the Warren debacle

I sense that Melissa was invited because of her spiritual leader, probably long before Warren became more toxic than ever and she kept her word.

It is odd how Cole never quotes her version of that event.

[joeybee12]

3. Now, I have nothing against gay people, some of my best friends are gay people, but...

...sound familiar?

[bluedawg12]

4. Yeah, that claim that he has gay friends and loves them, LMAO!

Oh geez, what gay people would be friends with that fat f*ck fundy?

:toast:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. Ethridge hanging out with Sufis?

That's really cool. You've got to understand, Sufis teach and practice love and tolerance, even toward the intolerant, with the aim of softening their hearts and making them aware of their nafs.

[bluedawg12]

6. Melissa is cool. I am not a sufi.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. and that is fine

we all have our unique paths to walk. May your journey be full of peace and light.

[marimour]

7. thats the way it should be done in theory.

[bluedawg12]

8. It might work better against political systems

like what Ghandi did?

I don't think the goal of religious institutions is change, they work for the status quo.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. the role of religious institutions is to help the individual

reach the Goal. It really isn't about politics. This is why Sufis have said that politics and religion should be separate.

[bluedawg12]

11. Agree about that, politics and religion should be separate.

I have seen some really bad things when politics and religion mix.

It also seems to diminish the spiritual aspect and the focus becomes too temporal.

[bluedawg12]

12. Since I wrote this, I have not seen a statement from ME

about what actually went down with Warren.

I have now read what was a rambling blog from her partner seemingly praising Warren.

That seems to paint them as poster children for tolerance of this particular bigot and their kumbaya moment.

I originally wrote this because, to be fair, I had not seen a response from Etheridge to Warren's version of their conversation and I did not imagine it to be similar to his.

In pointing that out, I felt that she should then not be used as an example of a gay person accepting Warren.

Who knows, maybe by now she is an admirer, along with Cole? Maybe tomorrow they will time her statement for impact and she will say he is a lovely man?

Things move very quickly on the inter net, while I wrote this thread the partner's blog was put up. By tomorrow ME may be having lunch with Rick? This is all a little surreal.

All I can say is, it matters little if Melissa does the right thing and remembers who the real Warren is and what he has said or not.

I know what he represents.

For all I know the blog is a phony, or ME has no idea what is on it, or somehow she is now clueless about gay marriage and civil rights, or has her own agenda?

Two wrongs don't make a right, RW was the wrong choice for the invocation and ME might just be wrong about him if she's been suckered in.

It also doesn't change Cole's fawning article meant to soothe reasonable gay apprehension about Warren and the implications for our future politically with this administration.

I did learn the value of this "outreach" which is getting those repug voters over,even though gay rights may have to be sidelined, as those are not negotiable for Warren, even if ME and partner, the hollywoodfarmer's sister's, daughter's bride or what ever she calls herself, have lunch and dinner and he hugs and swallows 1,000 "honey" bunnies.

This is a WTF day.

[Hissyspit]

13. Good responses to Dr. Cole's (hopefully temporary) loss of good judgment:

At 6:53 AM, Willy said...

I think that anyone who sought and succeeded in excluding a whole class of people from the benefits conveyed to citizens of the State of California isn't worthy of "liking and looking up to..."

That is in direct opposition to the principles expoused in the Declaration of Independence:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men..."

Rick Warren deserves neither public acclaim nor your admiration. He peddles bigotry and institutionalizes it, contrary to the principles that founded our nation.

If I were you I'd stick to analysis of the middle east where you have few peers. This post of yours is sadly lacking in compassion and sense.


At 6:52 AM, John Francis Lee said...

I'd say that a pastor like Warren who's turned to a "social gospel" is very dangerous because he is branding his fellow humans as devotees of pedophilia and incest and many poor sheep will be only too willing to attribute "divinity" to his hate speech.

I do see why Obama is reaching out to this man. He loves sheep of any sort. He'd better watch out or Warren will accuse him of bestiality.

This is sick, sick politics of exploitation.

[bluedawg12]

14. This sums it up

A reply from another blog

>>As an old community organizer he should recognize that he has prematurely set up a culminating event of reconciliation without laying the required groundwork and without doing the necessary healing first, and without clearly stating the limits of religion, especially conservative evangelical religion, in government, and realizing the intense pain this would cause many of his supporters who have been subject to homophobic hate and after the abuses of the last eight years under Bush. This will go into his next book as an embarrassment that became a stepping stone for his personal growth as he learns to be a fine president. The time for Rick Warren might have been his second inauguration after there was an actual reconciliation to celebrate”<<


http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-what-the-warren-appointment-will-cost/

[Hissyspit]

16. Yes, premature validation.

[bluedawg12]

17. Exactly. LOL

I think ME and her partner will be largely forgotten as far as the big picture of gay rights, but this preacher is ambitious we have not heard the last of him.

I understand he took his anti-gay message off his web site. It doesn't mean acceptance to me as much is it means adaptation on his part.

[bluedawg12]

15. looks like honey bunny and the farmer's daughter have spoken.

I have looked on ME’s website to see if she has any comments about America's new pukester errr... pastor.
Nope.

Not a word about the partner’s blog either. But there was a local televised statement from ME.

The fix is in honey bunny and the farm girl “wife” who is not really a legal wife, because Hate8 took away their plans to legally marry, now blog and make PSA’s for the new rulers.

Meet the new boss, just like the old boss.

It seems that the reverse (social) revolution is being televised without me after all.

Hop on board the inclusion bus, all you have to do is be str8 or be silent and capitulate.

This is a story worth remembering, because inclusion stops at the doorway of the not so inclusive Church.

Rick Warren’s “Moderation”
Jim Burroway
December 20th, 2008
It’s official, Saddleback Church bans all people “unwilling to repent of their homosexual lifestyle” from church membership. Also, Jews are going to hell. This is the guy Obama wants to pray on behalf of all Americans.
http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/


I guess a musical career is a life worth living and selling out for?

Not that celebrities lead the way in political protest or ideology, they can however, "teach" us how easy it is to be co-opted, manipulated and used. Hope the CD goes platinum, love ya' babe, let's do lunch. I'll have my agent call your...

.......

http://www.365gay.com/blog/122208-rev-warren-meets-with-etheridge/

Withers: Rev. Warren meets with Etheridge
By James Withers, contributing editor, 365Gay Blog 12.22.2008 8:14am EST

Cole and Warren were headline speakers at an annual conference sponsored by the Muslim Public Affairs Council; Etheridge and Salman Ahmad were the musical performers for the evening and it looks like Warren and Etheridge spoke before the conference and got along swimmingly.

“Local television in Los Angeles showed a short clip of Etheridge after the event asking gay leaders to reach out to Warren, just as they wanted him to reach out to them.”

Don’t trust Cole? Cynic! Well what about Etheridge’s wife?

“…And then my wife meets the man behind the projections, the quotes, the ‘other side.’ And he is warm, caring, effusive, and loves gays. since he nearly swallowed honey when he hugged her, I tend to believe him. he wants our gay marriages to be just as respected and embraced as the straight marriages.”

My head hurts now. The same guy who is on the record of comparing the relationship between Etheridge and Michaels with incest and pedophilia now wants their relationship to be respected?!

I’m more than willing to accept Warren is not on the same level as other preachers who opine on gay sexuality, but his recent interview with NBC’s Ann Curry shows Warren ain’t a friend who is respectful. And I want these gay friends of the good reverend talking to him about gay sexuality to show themselves. If what he says is true, you all need a serious beat down!

..............


http://dc.indymedia.org/mod/feeder/display_feed/22/index.php

Informed Comment
http://feeds.feedburner.com/juancole/xAWt
Published as of Monday, 22 December 2008 01:11:00 AM
Thoughts on the Middle East, History, and Religion
Juan Cole is President of the Global Americana Institute


During his address, Warren mentioned also seeing Etheridge backstage on Saturday.

Local television in Los Angeles showed a short clip of Etheridge after the event asking gay leaders to reach out to Warren, just as they wanted him to reach out to them.

This stance was big of her, since she and her partner had planned to marry but were prevented from doing so by the same Proposition 8 that Warren worked for, and she was so upset she suggested she would refuse to pay California taxes since she is obviously not considered a full citizen by her fellow Californians.

Warren blames the press, it’s always the liberal media isn’t it?

“Warren took the stage, friendly and ebullient, and implicitly complained about the bad press he has gotten since Obama announced he would read the invocation. He said that the media likes conflict, and where there is harmony there is nothing for them to report. When there is no conflict, he said, the media will create one.”

In short, stop covering the gay outrage about Warren the hater at the inauguration.

“Warren said, "Let me just get this over very quickly. I love Muslims. And for the media's purpose, I happen to love gays and straights."

Useful idiots

He explicitly mentioned meeting Etheridge, and explained that he has been a long time fan of hers, beginning with her self-titled first album of 1988. "I'm enough of a groupie," he said, "that I got her autograph on the Christmas album."

It’s not rudeness to call same sex relationship bad names?

“Warren also talked about the increasing rudeness and rancor of public life in the United States, and urged greater civility and willingness to work with people across the spectrum of opinion. He said, "We can disagree without being disagreeable." He also made a point of saying that al-Qaeda is no more representative of Islam than the KKK is of Christianity. Contrast that to the sorts of things Mike Huckabee or Rudi Giuliani said during the presidential campaign.”

Yes, yes, give the phobe a gentle reminder.

But just a gentle reminder to Warren that saying for Melissa Etheridge to be married to Tammy Lynn Michaels is equivalent to pedophilia or incest is not actually very civil or nice or humane.

<snip>
In opinion polls, evangelicals are by far the most bigoted Americans versus Muslims. But that sentiment derives from theological competition (and competition for souls). Once a pastor turns, as Warren did, to a social gospel, then he has social goals to accomplish, and he needs all the help he can get. A social gospel creates a field of practical ecumenism.