"Fun" Facts about Saddleback Church.

[KitchenWitch]

1. Did you know that they have a FOOD COURT in the complex? They do. :wtf:

2. They do not allow any of the women to be in supervisory roles, because it is "biblical" that the women submit to men.

3. They will be having 16 services between Christmas Eve and Christmas Day.

4. They have rented one of those "mobile billboards" to drive around the Lake Forest area advertising their 16 Christmas services.

5. Their complex is larger than many community college campuses.

[MNBrewer]

1. Jesus would be so proud.

[polichick]

9. It's absurd what has been created in his name, isn't it...

Here's a grassroots kind of guy teaching people to find "the kingdom of God within" and we end up with fundie mega-churches and the Catholic kingdom, among other top-down big-daddy control establishments.

[grantcart]

2. if you go to their website you can find answers to the most

trivial questions a group of numb minded sheep have ever mumbled.


what is the color of Jesus eyes?

is typical but my all time favorite is that amongst the list of questions about tithing is


"Should we tithe (the practice of giving 10% of income) based on net or gross?"

[KitchenWitch]

4. Yup.

I would need eyebleach after I visit though.

[madeline_con]

6. That's gross! Get a net. n/t

[valerief]

11. I did and I got a cataract. nt

[bluedawg12]

25. I can't believe every progressive is not shocked by this selection

to the inauguration. Wasn't this the kind of crap that everyone made fun of dumbya and his fundy friends for?

[xchrom]

3. recommend -- mary magdalene would not be welcome there nt

[DCKit]

31. Hell, they'd burn Jesus as a heretic in a heartbeat.

Ain't nothin' Christian about the Xians.

[GOPisEvil]

5. Just the kind of place with which I want to be associated.

:sarcasm:

I didn't think churches were supposed to be "for profit". :eyes:

[KitchenWitch]

7. It is called profit for prophets!

:eyes:

[bookman]

8. We have a place like that where I live also..

..I call it...


Six Flags over Jesus

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

10. Ka-Ching!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

12. I went to a church in England with a bar and resturant in the bottom

If I was Anglican and lived in London, I would totally have gone to that Church. Beer makes mass better.

[MadMaddie]

13. They need to be taxed! That's all..

[waiting for hope]

14. You want to know what is really sad?

The people that feel the need to attend these types of churches. The type of psychosis that makes them want to be a part of a group that preaches hate and bigotry, takes a good portion of their income, all for the sake of being "saved". The more I learned about the Bible, the history behind it, the more I became convinced that heaven is here on earth, of what you make of your life and how you treat others. Humanity as a whole needs to learn some real life lessons, on being tolerant, on self respect, on being confident in your own skin, enough so that there isn't a feeling of lacking - this is what I think this people have deficits in.

[dflprincess]

15. I wonder if Michelle Obama knows about rule #2?

I wouldn't think she'd be very impressed by it.

I've begun to think that Obama is like Denzel Washington's character in "Philadelphia". Remeber how he was completely freaked out by Tom Hank's character and went home thinking his wife would understand his attitude and she pretty much told him (is sweet, exasperated wife kind of way) that he was being an ass? Maybe Michelle will do the same.

[kath]

16. and it's all TAX-FREE - WOOT!!

[Maven]

17. Well those all sound very nice.

Wait, what was number 2 again?

:wow:

[Initech]

18. Praise Jeebus!!!

Oh wait... um what the fuck does a church need a food court for? :wtf:

[foxfeet]

22. Because a certain preacher just can't cook for himself.

:donut:

[Jamastiene]

28. To feed the hungry

gluttonous preacher. :evilgrin:

[rrneck]

19. Churches and shopping malls have two things in common,

They are big ass buildings surrounded by bigger parking lots and they are designed to transfer wealth from the pockets of the many to the pockets of the few.

(Had to change the post, couldn't make the image work. sorry)

[midnight]

20. Since half this population is female, how in the world does this

fly? 2. They do not allow any of the women to be in supervisory roles, because it is "biblical" that the women submit to men.

[KitchenWitch]

21. Apparently there is no shortage of women who are willing to sell themselves short.

[bluedawg12]

24. whoa, we are deep into fundy country - he's Dobson

as he admits, but "with a different tone."

[waiting for hope]

32. That is really not uncommon -

The Southern Baptist Convention in 2000 redid their statement on woman in leadership roles:

Women in Ministry

Women participate equally with men in the priesthood of all believers. Their role is crucial, their wisdom, grace and commitment exemplary. Women are an integral part of our Southern Baptist boards, faculties, mission teams, writer pools, and professional staffs. We affirm and celebrate their Great Commission impact.

While Scripture teaches that a woman's role is not identical to that of men in every respect, and that pastoral leadership is assigned to men, it also teaches that women are equal in value to men.

http://www.sbc.net/aboutus/pswomen.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Baptist_Convention#Gender-based_roles

Several Baptist churches broke from the convention because of it.

[bluedawg12]

23. He has franchised his business model.

"Over 400,000 pastors and church leaders from around the world have attended a seminar or conference led by Warren and other pastors who share best practices as they seek to be more effective in fulfilling the Great Commission and the Great Commandment. The term "Purpose Driven" refers to these pastors' attempt to balance the five purposes of Worship, Fellowship, Discipleship, Ministry, and Evangelism in their churches.

Over the years, Christian leaders in 162 countries have used materials which stem from this movement. Through this organization over 400,000 ministers and priests have been trained worldwide in his theology and practical methods. Some 189,000 church leaders subscribe to Ministry Toolbox, the weekly newsletter.

Warren's books have come under criticism from some conservative evangelical Christians who question the practices promoted in these books, claiming that they distort the Gospel and employ questionable tactics.<17> Particularly, some fear his books invite his readers into a 40-day streamlined program, rather than a living, transforming faith in God. Others express concern over what is described as the divisive nature of Warren's techniques. Wall Street Journal writer Suzanne Sataline cites examples of congregations who have split over Purpose Driven growth strategies and congregations who have expelled members who fought Purpose Driven changes."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Warren

[MNBrewer]

26. In addition to his favorite verses from Leviticus...

He should check out Matthew 6

Matthew 6

"Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly. And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."

[bluedawg12]

27. let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth

betcha this guy will have something pop up about all of his high flying business dealings. It just stinks.

[xenussister]

29. THEY CHANGED THEIR FAQ! (The "no homosexuals" portion is gone)

I can't start a thread but I thought this was very interesting.

A couple of days ago, if you went to http://www.saddlebackfamily.com/home/whatwebelieve/index.html#q_49 you would have seen this disgusting quote:

"Because membership in a church is an outgrowth of accepting the Lordship and leadership of Jesus in one’s life, someone unwilling to repent of their homosexual lifestyle would not be accepted at a member at Saddleback Church. That does not mean they cannot attend church – we hope they do! God’s Word has the power to change our lives."

But it's gone now. I guess that quote was being bandied about the web a bit too much. I don't doubt that the policy is exactly the same, but now they're trying to hide it. Luckily, you can see the original page via the Wayback Machine!

http://web.archive.org/web/20071214040302/http://www.saddlebackfamily.com/membership/group_finder/faqs_smallgroup.asp?id=7509

Ha, I love the Wayback Machine. They can try to hide their hate but they can't.

[Chovexani]

30. Bareback is just another Walmart masquerading as house of worship

I have seen this shit in action, my mom's church (that I escaped from) was just like that. Food court, internet cafe (with filtered machines of course), and 3 star restaurant.

The lobby looked more like the lobby of your local Marriott than a sacred house of the Lord. They had fish tanks in that joint with thousand dollar rare tropical fish. There were scrolling marquees with the times of the services just like your local multiplex. I shit you not. That's the kind of place JC would flip out on. For real. And they are way more common than you think.

As a personal aside, from an issue of shop talk, I take a lot of ish with the Catholic Church, but for the most part when I step inside one, I can feel I'm on holy ground. The energy and intent is there, and the Divine Presence, even if it's in a form I don't necessarily work with (my polytheism, let me show you it). Same with your local Methodist church, or Jewish synagogue, or Hindu temple. Heck even the little storefront evangelical churches have that sense in them. It's the same feeling I get when I cast a circle. That this is a place set apart, to reconnect with Deity in whichever form it is seen in that place.

These megachurches are soulless and there is nothing sacred about them. They're living idols to greed and the excesses of Mammon. Jesus does not set a Birkenstocked foot in them.

[LeftHander]

33. Just gimme that old tyme big box religion...nt