A new perspective: Melissa Etheridge's wife writes about Rick Warren on her blog.

[kstewart33]

so honey met rick warren last night. well, she spoke to him on the phone beforehand, giving us insight into the man the media has made our latest "HE HATES YOU!" target. if i sit real still and think about it.. it's almost like reverse smear-the-queer. remember that recess game in second grade (natalie? derek? karyn?), when one kid had the ball, and all the other kids had to chase and kick the shit out of said person, hence "smearing" him? well, at times, it seems that the media presents us with target after target to smear, as if to say to us, "THIS IS THE GUY HOLDING YOU BACK!! GO GIT 'IM!!!" and it does seem that my lovely gay family is so bruised and bettered and ready to fight back (myself included), that we attack and deem someone ANTI-GAY, and ready to SMEAR, simply when they don't want the word "marriage" brought into our gay ceremonies. now, if the person doesn't want gays AT ALL, then i'm gonna chase that one down. but, i'm starting to think that there are indeed some people... some well-meaning and loving people... who are not at all ANTI-GAY, that's not why they don't want the word marriage used... they are merely RELIGIOUS. and for religious (archaic) reasons, they want to stay safe and respectful to WHAT THEY'VE BEEN TAUGHT.

let me try to differentiate the two.

let's say i am wearing a baseball cap. now what if i want to call it a yamaka? you know- it's basically the same thing, but one is missing the sun visor. i don't call my caps yamakas... cuz that is a religious name for a hat that is worn by religious people. now if i apply that thinking to this situation.... i would like to think of it as.... if they afford us the EXACT SAME RIGHTS, then who cares what it's called? my friend joel can wear his yamaka. i can wear my hat. joel can light his menorah, i'll light my candle. joel can eat his matzo ball soup, and i can break crackers into my soup. joel and hanna can have a piece of paper with the word MARRIAGE on it, and all 1200 rights... and i can have a piece of paper with who-cares on it, and all 1200 rights. the word marriage is a religious, holy, word that people who go to church on sundays are told belongs to them. like yamaka, menorah, or matzo.

rick is not a televangelist. rick is not falwell. rick spoke of some "stupid" things he's said (his word, not mine), some missquotes that were given, and lots of ammunition from the media. all excellent points. (we're all war-minded right now, you know. it's easy for the media to distract us by throwing us into our own verbal wars here at home.) ) what to do, what to do.... the rest of the public is given an animation of rick warren... and then my wife meets the man behind the projections, the quotes, the "OTHER SIDE". and he is warm, caring, effusive, and LOVES gays. since he nearly swallowed honey when he hugged her, i tend to believe him. he wants our gay marriages to be just as respected and embraced as the straight marriages. he just wants to wear his yamaka, and me wear my hat.

anway. hath hell frozenth over? rick warren was humble and kind. honey and i are to go to his church sometime soon. and honey invited him to our house for an afternoon, to be with our family. (w.t.f.)

open minds hearts hands
differences fade.

Link: http://hollywoodfarmgirl.blogspot.com/2008/12/big-ricks-yamaka.html

[Midlodemocrat]

1. It's yarmulke and she's out of her fucking mind.

[Bluebear]

4. cuz honey & i are wearing a yamaka and oh who cud b mad at him for long!!

:crazy:

[Midlodemocrat]

6. Seriously. Who but a 12 yo writes like that?

My. God.

:hug: sweetie. How are you tonight?

[Bluebear]

10. Fer sure! It's such a new perspective, honey!!!11

I'm fine, saying in here and wondering why someone would post this foolishness here, is this supposed to make us feel better? :rofl:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

At least I'm a trophy wife with a brain

[Bluebear]

2. With such erudite writing, who could possibly disagree?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

211. i thought i was reading the writing of a 12 year old. nt

[ruggerson]

3. apparently she's not aware that she and her wife cannot be members in his church

[QC]

5. But they can attend for a while in hopes they'll get healed! n/t

[Bluebear]

7. 'since he nearly swallowed honey when he hugged her' - good god

[jonnyblitz]

14. I don't pay attention to Melissa Etheridge . I don't even know

who this girl is! :crazy:

[Midlodemocrat]

24. Come to my window is one of my favorite songs.

She was AMAZING at the Concert for Heroes after 9/11. The mic didn't work and she kept playing, and playing and playing.

She's got a fantastic voice. I love her.

[jonnyblitz]

84. i know her popular songs I just don't follow her or take my

every que from her. you know what i mean.

[Midlodemocrat]

100. I know what you mean. I didn't know she had remarried.

I knew that she had beaten breast cancer, though, which is huge.

[xchrom]

8. that's melissa -- but if i had the arch bishop of episcopal usa and him for sherry and SERIOUS

conversation -- and the media -- would he come?

i seriously doubt it.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

9. OMG -- she's fucking illiterate

[Bluebear]

11. "i don't call my caps yamakas... cuz that is a religious name for a hat "

:rofl:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

15. I couldn't even read the whole thing

It's like reading one of my sister's IM conversations, from when she was 12.

[Bluebear]

17. Pick any line, it's all about the same. What a "new perspective"!

:crazy:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

22. And in another post, she talks about not speaking for all "lezzies"

I think the OP is playing a joke on us all.

[racaulk]

90. !!!

:rofl:

That's about where I stopped reading. How absurd!

[NWHarkness]

12. Does she knoe Warren bans gays from his church ? n/t

[Zuiderelle]

13. Oh come on, that cannot possibly be Etheridge's wife.

If it is then she's an idiot and no friend of ours. I don't care what she "tends to believe" about why Rick Warren doesn't want us to be married. The bottom line is that he doesn't. How can she reconcile him loving gays, when he considers them pedophiles and criminals.

Really, this isn't really Etheridge's wife, right?

[joeybee12]

18. If she is, she doesn't realize she's being used...let Ricky invite some no-name gay couple

into his church...wait, that won't get media attention!

[Lisa0825]

It is listed as her link on Wikipedia...

I know not everything on Wiki is true, but it was the quickest place to check.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammy_Lynn_Michaels#External_links

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

26. Any psycho can post shit on wiki

Hell, I used to write crap about midlo, boxed wine and minivans all the time on wiki.

[Lisa0825]

40. I have been googling the title of the blog and the name Etheridge

and so far all links confirm it. Like I said, wiki was just the quickest confirmation.

[foxfeet]

104. Damn your recommendations. I went for boxed wine

and ended up in the back of a minivan with Midlo.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

111. It wouldn't be the first time

[MNBrewer]

21. I don't think it is.

[Lyric]

16. If all she wants is a civil union, FINE. She can have one. I want equality.

I don't give a rat's ass in hell what these appeasement gays are willing to settle for. That is THEIR life. They don't speak for me, they don't represent me, and they sure as fuck don't make decisions for me.

If she doesn't mind sitting in the back of the bus, so as not to cause an inconvenient stir, well fine. I can't force her to stop devaluing her own existence. But I'm going to distance myself from people like her as much as humanly possible.

[kstewart33]

19. Guys, what is your problem?

She's gay, she's met and talked to the man, and she dares to have a perspective that's abit different from your own.

And your response? She's illiterate, she's this, she's that.

What does it take to open your mind just an inch and consider that the situation is just a bit more complicated than you've dictated that it be?

Trashing a gay woman who knows a good bit more first-hand about the guy.

Calling Skinner. Time for a rewrite, please.

[Bluebear]

23. >Calling Skinner. Time for a rewrite, please.< And what is THAT supposed to mean?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

28. It's just crazy speak

[kstewart33]

45. Blindness. Total blindness.

You read her entry, and immediately, she's attacked.

SHE MET AND SPENT TIME WITH WARREN. SHE IS GAY. SHE HAS LIKELY SUFFERED AS MUCH PAIN THAT COMES FROM INTOLERANCE AND HATE AS YOU HAVE. YET, SHE HAS A DIFFERENT RESPONSE ABOUT WARREN.

AND WHAT DOES IS THE GAY RESPONSE ON DU TO DATE ABOUT HER? THE SAME KNEE-JERK, AUTOMATIC REJECTION THAT PEOPLE HAVE FOR TOO LONG GIVEN TO GAYS.

YOU'RE TREATING HER THE SAME WAY THAT GAY HATERS HAVE TREATED YOU. DON'T THINK, JUST DISMISS. BELITTLE. AND IF NECESSARY, ATTACK.

AND THAT STINKS.

[Bluebear]

50. NO WHAT STINKS IS YOU COMING HERE TRYING TO REHABILITATE YOUR BELOVED RICK WARREN

Shoo.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

51. Your caps lock is broken, fyi

[LostinVA]

58. Just knock off lecturing us in OUR Forum

I don't give a fuck what she has to say. She is obviously not thesharpest tack in the box, and her wife'smoney and status isolate her. She is too stupid to know she is being used.

I hope Melissa realizes what an idiot this makes her look like -- and how her lesbian fans think about her wife calling them "lezzies." A term that will get you in trouble on DU and IRL.

[kstewart33]

62. How do you know what this woman is like?

She's isolated? On what basis do you know this?

She's stupid? I don't know, she's smart enough to land Ms. Etheridge.

Attack, attack, attack. Total blindness.

[LostinVA]

69. I don't fucking CARE what she's like

She is isolated. Money and status protects people. Until it's too late.

I;m not attacking anyone, I'm not causing trouble -- you are. You are a cliche.

[kstewart33]

78. You're attacking me.

I'm a cliche. Attack, attack.

I'm making trouble. Because I posted a perspective from a gay woman that disagrees with yours.

How is that trouble? I truly, honestly don't understand this.

DU is a discussion community. I've been here since 2001 (at least I think, it's 2001).

Posting different views is the foundation of DU. Right?

[Name removed]

126. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[foxfeet]

161. Honest questions, no snark intended:

Why is it important to you to post in this particular forum (I'm assuming you're not lesbian)? What do you seek to accomplish?

[kstewart33]

187. Repost all of your questions in a way that won't get deleted.

I'd like to answer them.

[foxfeet]

193. I only have the two questions

and am (again, honestly) confused. Why would they be deleted? I guess I really don't know how to rephrase the questions in a less-direct manner because that would smack of entrapment or "got'cha." I'm not calling you out; I'm seeking a dialog. You may feel free to PM me if you prefer. I'm not going to bash you, but I assume no responsibility for the responses of others.

[kstewart33]

195. I'm at work now.

But I will answer your questions later today when I'm on break (likely early afternoon).

[foxfeet]

196. OK by me, I'll be around.

Nobody's at work here--we're snowed in.

[LostinVA]

214. You ARE a cliche

[kstewart33]

224. Go read Melissa Etheridge's take on all this.

I posted it in this forum a few minutes ago.

[racaulk]

103. .

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kstewart33]

124. She doesn't have a clue?

She's gay. And you think she's somehow escaped all the crap you've been dealt because you're gay?

Don't see how that's possible unless she's lived on a different planet.

[Name removed]

127. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kstewart33]

130. Not completely.

Did she grow up married to a millionaire celebrity? You know, when she realized she was gay and took all that high-school crap because of it?

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kstewart33]

139. I don't know, I got the point in high school.

[Zuiderelle]

143. I didn't until I was well into my 20s

And I'm gay. Go figure.

:shrug:

[kstewart33]

146. I'm straight and female.

The first time I tried to do something that 'girls didn't do' in high school (athletics and run for a serious student office), I learned very quickly that girls and women are far less equal than boys and men.

Things are better today, sure. But the experience stuck.

[Zuiderelle]

147. Yeah, that's an easy lesson. I learned that one at six.

The gay thing is much more obscure. It's much harder to comprehend the 1000 federal rights and benefits we're denied not being able to marry when we're children in high school and not anywhere close to marrying (much less even knowing we're gay).

I really think you need to abandon this thread and leave this forum. You're terribly insulting.

[kstewart33]

149. Oh, I don't know.

I think that single mothers trying to make it in a man's field and being sexually harassed and denied pay - that counts for alot, too.

No single group has a monopoly on abuse and intolerance.

[Zuiderelle]

151. Yes, but straight women are at least equal under the law. We are not.

I'm a woman, so you can't really use the argument about women having it just as bad. Straight women don't have it as bad as gay women. Period.

[kstewart33]

152. I don't know.

Maybe straight black women do, particularly in the deep South.

[Zuiderelle]

181. And straight black women in the south don't have it as bad as gay black women in the south.

Jesus.

[kstewart33]

186. You got me there.

Triple prejudice.

[Zuiderelle]

191. Do you understand that gay people don't have the same rights as straight people?

No matter how poor, no matter where they live in this country, no matter what physical handicaps, no matter what race? Gay people do not have the same rights. And people like Warren are trying to keep it that way. And people like you who post ignorant missives like the one in your OP are also trying to keep it that way.

[ronnykmarshall]

200. I don't give a fuck how much time she spent with that piece of shit!

She speaks for me as about the same the fucking Log Cabin Republicans.

[kstewart33]

225. Go read Melissa's view. I just posted it on this forum.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kstewart33]

93. How is she illiterate?

She writes differently than some, but her message seems pretty clear about Warren.

[Zuiderelle]

96. Her message seems ignorant and clueless.

I don't understand why you're defending it either.

[kstewart33]

106. Why is it ignorant and clueless?

No one has explained why she and her views are that way, just that she's ignorant, isolated, stupid, and clueless.

This is what I think. I think that she's worth listening to because she's spent some time with the man, and because she is gay.

Because she is gay, she has experienced all the rejection, intolerance, and even hate in her life that gay people experience simply because you're gay. Given this fact, if she sees what she says she sees in him, than what she writes is worth thinking about.

That does not necessarily mean that Warren is a wonderful guy. I don't think he is. I think in some ways, he's a jerk. But her perspective has real value because of what she has experienced and lived, something that I have not experienced.

I am straight. But I know several gay people who are wonderful human beings (including my younger brother). I support gay rights, I always have.

But I am appalled at the intolerance, automatic rejection, and attacks by many of the gay posters on DU towards anyone who in any way disagrees with their views about the Warren situation. What is appalling is that the gay community here is behaving toward those of us with a different view (even slightly different)in the same way that gay haters have behaved towards them.

It is astounding to me.

[Zuiderelle]

108. You know several gay people who are wonderful human beings.

Good for you.

:eyes:

[kstewart33]

115. Thanks. I thought so too.

Especially my brother.

[Zuiderelle]

123. Yes, especially your brother. OMG that makes you an expert.

My brother is a racist, homophobic straight gay. What does that mean?

:eyes:

[kstewart33]

125. I haven't a clue.

I'm no expert, but my best friend in grad school was gay (he died of AIDS). So I saw alot and learned alot in those years.

[Zuiderelle]

129. Apparently they never told you how insulting it is to go into a room full of gays and condescend to

them.

[kstewart33]

131. Who is condescending?

How is this discussion condescending?

If I'm coming on like that, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to.

[Zuiderelle]

133. Bullshit. You're not sorry. Posting this thread is in itself condescending.

And you certainly meant to post it.

[kstewart33]

144. Please explain.

Yes, I certainly meant to post it or I wouldn't have posted it. How is posting a perspective by a gay woman who's met and talked to Warren - how is that condescending?

I do not understand that at all.

[Zuiderelle]

145. No. Go away.

We're not here to educate you. If you can't tell how incredibly clueless and uninformed she is by the post you posted, then there's no hope for you anyway.

[kstewart33]

148. "We're not here to educate you?"

I think you've just illustrated condescension.

[MNBrewer]

What is worthy about her views?

Tell us all why we should listen to someone who is so "smart" that she can land Melissa Etheridge. Please what is SO enlightening about her eloquent statements?

[Sebastian Doyle]

113. She writes like a goddamn Freeper!

If not in subject matter, than certainly in illiterate style.

even when i try to right like a illiterite freepir i can't keep up the illusin for verry long becase it makes my eys hurt just reeding it :crazy:

[joeybee12]

29. Click on peace, tidings and fuckery...

...yeah, Ricky's gonna invite someone like that to his church.

[davidinalameda]

158. if it gets him publicity

he will

another media whore

[QC]

31. Why is it so incredibly important to you

for us to embrace this sleazy Elmer Gantry of a tent revivalist?

I knew about Warren long before he because the cause celebre on DU, and I am not a fan.

Melissa Etheridge's domestic partner (not wife--that's like a yamukka) is not the Official Homo Opinion Director.

[kstewart33]

85. Don't embrace him. He's a jerk.

That's not the point.

[Midlodemocrat]

32. OMG! U 2 kyewt for pstin that.

She's a fucking twit. If you're going to go on and on about yarmulkes, how about learning how to spell it?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

36. lol...y r u h8in on him?

[Bluebear]

38. can eat his matzo ball soup, and i can break crackers into my soup!!!!11

Yeah, that's JUST a perfect analogy to marriage!

[Midlodemocrat]

44. what kind of crackers?

These things matter.

[Bluebear]

46. Doesn't matter - - this writer *is* crackers!

:rofl:

[Midlodemocrat]

49. Bluebear for the win!!!!

:rofl:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

47. I'm partial to the Trader Joe's "Everything" crackers

[jonnyblitz]

39. when melissa etheridge becomes president of the United

States and assigns a raging bigot to give an invocation at a major historical/televised event THEN i will give a fuck about what she does, otherwise, who gives a FUCK? your implication that all gays must follow what other famous gays do says more about YOU than anything. yes, the masks are coming off at DU.

[LostinVA]

43. I really love people coming over here and lecturing us on our civil rights

Keep your rationalization of bigotry in GD and GDP.

Charles Lindbergh thought Adolf Hitler was a really great guy when he met him. So fucking what. Hitler used him and fooled him.

And, she IS semi-illiterate.

[Bluebear]

52. We're just "totally blind"

See #45 :rofl:

[LostinVA]

76. And, we are also attacking the well known liberal gay writer Andrew Sullivan

aka Bareback Andy. So beloved by self-loathing gays.

:rofl:

[Starry Messenger]

48. I would daresay the gay folk have a perspective that's a "bit different than your own".

Why are you discounting their responses to someone they don't know? I call Bush a dumbass all the time and I don't know him from a hole in the ground. I'm not gay but you are sounding really patronizing in this forum.

[kstewart33]

97. Sorry if I sound patronizing.

I don't mean to patronize anyone.

[Maven]

117. STOP DEFENDING WARREN HERE

[kstewart33]

153. I'm not defending him.

That's not the point.

[Maven]

162. Gimme a break. That was your purpose in posting this bullshit.

To hold up an example of a gay person (an absolute moron, if we're to believe this is really her work) who's OK with Warren, thus obviously more "reasonable" and "forgiving" than those of us who are a little upset about his absolutely fucking hideous bigotry.

In fact, the worst thing you've said about him is that he's "in some ways, kind of a jerk." Gee, ya THINK?

We've seen enough of Rick Warren to come to our own conclusion about who he is and what he represents. More than enough. And your posting this is just another condescending way to tell us how we should feel.

We are not going to EVER take the time to feel compassion for someone who is on a crusade to destroy us. I mean, are you kidding me? You're wasting your time and you're upsetting people. Why aren't you on the right side of this issue? Why don't you have our backs, instead of defending this filth? What does that say about you?

[kstewart33]

185. Harvey, who is defending filth against gays?

I don't like Warren. He is reminiscent of all those Southern evangelicals that I grew up with, on the TV every Sunday morning.

You want close minded? Go visit Alabama where only one white voter in ten voted for Obama. And the churches in Birmingham, Huntsville, and Mobile that are almost as big as Saddam's palaces. You want hypocritical and condescending? Tour those 'Christian' churches.

What I did was post a perspective from a gay woman who's actually spent some time with Warren, a perspective that is interesting and demonstrates that the issue is not black and white, is more complicated than that, and is about far more than just Warren himself.
The core of her message was striking because she has lived through the same crap that gays have.

Nobody is asking you to feel compassion for Warren. That's not the point.

If I have a beef with the DU gay community, it's with how they've responded to anyone who has a different take on the Obama-Warren issue. I've explained that point elsewhere on this thread. We've been immediately attacked and treated like scum. Called bigots, every name in the book. And we're DUers, for geez sake.

The treatment and your post here, is Bushian, the old black and white, 'you're either with us or against us' crap (remember Bush in 2001?).

If the gay community wants to make marriage legal and fully gain their rights, this insider -outsider ('what are you doing in OUR forum') nonsense has got to stop. And you know it. How are you going to change people's minds when you're attacking them?

If you want more rights, you've got to co-opt people who may disagree with you, not attack them.

[Political Tiger]

175. You are very brave!

Only one point of view is allowed here, and if don't share that point of view you are to be scorned, ridiculed and insulted. Kind of gives new meaning to the term "gay friendly!"

But please don't think all gay people are this intolerant and full of rage. Most of us, like Melissa Etheridge and her partner, refuse to be perpetual victims. It's just that the squeaky wheel gets all the grease.

Okay, now I must duck, I hear incoming fire...............

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

20. Where did you find this link?

I'm just wondering, because I'm having a hard time believing a celebrity would have a blogspot blog, that doesn't even have many comments or anything. Why not have it on her own website? Instead of a free thing that anybody could set up pretending to be her.

[kstewart33]

27. Andrew Sullivan's blog at the Atlantic.

One of the top gay writers in politics, IMO.

Link: http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/

[Bluebear]

30. Find us a nice progressive gay writer and we'll talk

[Midlodemocrat]

34. Or at least someone with an IQ over 80.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

33. That's because he's a hired columnist by them

Not exactly the same as blogspot.

[Zuiderelle]

35. That's not the blogspot.

[joeybee12]

37. A gay writer whom most gays despise...now exaulted by Kool-Aid drinkers...

...because, like you, he sees all things Obama as the word of God. Go google some of his early stuff from the early Bush years...he can't be trusted...he's insane.

[QC]

42. I remember when he was all about barebacking and testosterone cream.

Now he a prophet!

[kstewart33]

190. No, he's a former Bushie who changed his mind.

And he admitted it, in public, in print.

Sully has had his problems, but I respect him for having the backbone to change his mind on alot of things, and write about it.

[readmoreoften]

219. Yeah, a CONSERVATIVE WAR HAWK. Thanks for the concern, troll.

What about Mary Cheney? What does she say about Warren? Gosh, I just love when so-called progressives use the 2% of conservative gays to back up their opinions.

[Lyric]

41. I've read her blog a few times, long before any of the recent controversy.

Yeah, it really is her. Unfortunately.

[Midlodemocrat]

53. OMG!!! But, she's 2 kewl? LOL, RU with me?

[Lyric]

55. I know. Let's just say that I was...dismayed.

Considering Melissa's intellect, it's difficult to see how she could be attracted to THAT.

Oh well. Maybe she has really huge...tracts of land.

[hulklogan]

54. If Melissa and Tammy want to associate with that asshole, it's their choice.

I'm not going to hold it against them as people, though I am disappointed in them for letting themselves be confuzzled by Warren's smiley bear act.

I don't believe that they are huge marriage equality supporters anyway, since they didn't rush to get married in the legal window before prop H8 passed. Melissa's vow not to pay taxes in response seems a bit to after-the-fact to be a sign of wholehearted support, but I don't know the woman so I can only speculate.

So why do you straight people now feel like you have to trot out all the GLBT celebrities who had a friendly association with Rick Warren, or who have said they don't care about full marriage equality like Elton John? What is the point?

[NMDemDist2]

56. yeah they can go to his church anytime, but they can't JOIN his church unless

they stop living their 'sinful lifestyle'

[kstewart33]

57. So now, you're all attacking Andrew Sullivan.

Because he dared to post an entry from a gay woman who disagrees with you.

So now, let's trash him.

Or maybe his mother because she dared to agree with the woman, too.

Or maybe the owner of the server that posts all of the Atlantic blogs.

Who else? Melissa Etheridge because she invited Warren to her home?

When does this end?

You're as bad as those who belittle and trash you simply because you are gay.

This is absurd.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

60. ROFL

We've always hated Andrew Sullivan here.

[Chovexani]

177. Someone ain't too quick on the uptake huh

Maybe we need to start baking pie charts.

Mmm, delicious, delicious pie charts.

[LostinVA]

61. WE've ALWAY attacked Sullivan, as did all of DU before Summer 2007 or so

Just knockoff lecturing us in here. If you don't like what we're posting, stay the fuck out with YOUR intolerance.

[kstewart33]

70. No one's lecturing anyone.

Why do you believe that someone who disagrees with you is intolerant?
Why do you automatically reject anyone who disagrees with you, and assume the worst about them?

[LostinVA]

83. Yes, you are -- CLICHE

Because people who embrace intolerance are intolerant. UR blind?
I don't. I just rehect people who are wrong. UR blind? 2 kewl!

You really are a cliche -- we see thousands like you over here every year. At least five since noon.

[kstewart33]

99. This sounds a bit like a high school clique.

'We think,' 'we feel', 'we see' - and I (and 'thousands' like me) are the outsiders.

I don't get it. I did not know that any DU forum requires special membership status in order to post an opinion or perspective.

[jonnyblitz]

64. do you even KNOW about Bareback Andy? jesus christ.

he has a fucking HISTORY and I don't have the patience to educate you.

[QC]

65. I was attacking Sully back in the 90s, long before

there was any such place as DU and even longer before his groupies here had ever heard of him.

[jonnyblitz]

80. did you see his "muscle glutes" sex site profile and picture?

:rofl: there was a screen cap of it before he took it down on a website a loong time ago that i used to have the link to 3 computers ago in the '90s..

[QC]

86. Oh yes, I saw Captain Bareback's butt!

It's still out there, on archive.org.

[jonnyblitz]

95. ok this is too fucking funny.

:rofl: I am dying here..(your PM)

[MNBrewer]

67. DO you even know who Andrew Sullivan is? What his history is?

[kstewart33]

72. Yes, I do.

He's made some real mistakes in his life. But I don't dismiss his writings because of them.

[MNBrewer]

81. I don't fault his politics because he barebacks.

I fault his writings because of the politics (at least until very recently).

[kstewart33]

120. He saw the light about Bush three years ago.

And he's been one of the most insightful critics of his administration ever since (and of Palin), IMO.

[MNBrewer]

134. Too bad he helped to get him into office in the first place

[kstewart33]

141. You can say that about more than a few million people

who voted for him, and then regretted what they did (according to polls).

[MNBrewer]

155. The topic is Andrew Sullivan

Please try to keep up.

[kstewart33]

182. No, it's not.

It's Warren and most certainly the perspective of Melissa's wife. At least that's the thread.
Sullivan was no more than a messenger.

And please, drop the insults.

[QC]

74. Here is some info on Andrew Sullivan:

The Real Andrew Sullivan Scandal

Sullivan’s Travails

Al Gore, Andrew Sullivan, and "Fifth Column"

[kstewart33]

82. Isn't your attacking Sullivan beside the point?

He posted her entry, that's all.

What if Huffington Post, or any other top website posted her entry. Would they be gay haters too?

If a newspaper prints something you don't like, are they gay haters too?

This is crazy.

This is classic 'kill the messenger' - the messenger is not the message.

[QC]

87. I'm not attacking him. I'm telling you why I don't trust or admire him.

Nobody here did, until he joined the fan club, at which point he came to be seen as a prophet and saint around here.

Cut out the self-righteous lectures--you are becoming very annoying.

[kstewart33]

112. How am I being self righteous?

I don't get it. How does a disagreement automatically translate to self righteousness?

[QC]

121. "And now you're attacking ___!" Blindness! Blindness!

All that stuff.

My problem with Sullivan is that for many years he was the right wing's attack queer, who they trotted out whenever they wanted to attack gays. Whenever they wanted a gay person to condemn gays, Sully was right there, sitting on his hind legs and panting eagerly.

He became an Obama fan a little over a year ago. He shilled for the likes of Bush and Gingrich for going on twenty years.

[kstewart33]

128. Sully's changed alot.

He's conceded he was wrong on Iraq and about alot of other things, in public, in print.

What I like about his blog is that he'll rail and rail about something, and then post a reader's dissent to his position, and the dissent is always worth reading. He posts the best dissent he's been emailed instead of one that's obviously lacking.

[QC]

136. It's hard for me to trust him after the business about

"libidinal pathology" and the liberal fifth column and all that.

Sully tends to fall in and out of love quickly and often.

[MNBrewer]

137. Maybe we should trust people who were right in the first place

Even if he can see just how BLIND he was then.

[JohnnyLib2]

59. I clicked on her link and then read her Dec. 19 piece--

stay tuned, she may have another version at any time. :crazy:

[Solon]

66. Yeah, I saw that too, why the 180, is Warren really that charismatic?

And I don't remember any misquotes of his, also he hasn't publicly redacted any of his most offensive statements.

[bluedawg12]

122. Warren has been under pressure to produce "gay" friends

to back up his claims that he's friends with "teh gays."

This is it?

[mitchtv]

138. They WANT TO GO TO THE INAUGURATION FESTIVITIES

and don't have the gumption to stand up to the true believers.

[LostinVA]

73. I just did, too -- wtf?

[Solon]

63. So she supports "separate but equal"...

how big of her. :eyes:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

68. If calling the insitution a different name and yet granting all 1200 rights

will allow equality in this country, I'm all for it. But I have a wait and see attitude about it--if the religious right still go after equal rights in partnership situations, then it is time to really crack down on them and strictly separate church and state to the point that ministers, rabbis, and the like are forbidden to officiate at legal joining ceremonies, and can only officiate at spiritual ones. In fact, I am all for this--and I have been an ordained minister for 14 years.

[jberryhill]

71. It's a hat?

Who knew?

[LeftCoast]

75. So basically because one or two gay people support Warren we're all supposed to?

Hmmmm

[QC]

89. Well, the Official Homo Opinion Director has spoken,

so I guess we gotta love Rick now.

[LeftCoast]

92. Well...he loves us and gives us donuts!

I'm sold!

[QC]

And he just wants to wear his yammickey in peace.

Who could begrudge him that?

[jonnyblitz]

107. and who knew it was Melissa!!? I always thought it was the dude

from "Grey's Anatomy"!

[kstewart33]

109. Nobody's saying that.

That's not the point.

[unblock]

77. separate but equal is not equal under the law.

you can't have gay drinking fountains and seat all gays at the back of the bus and call it equal, who cares what you call it.

it's not equal and we all know it. now, it might be a pragmatic step in the right direction; that's a matter of tactics. but it is not, and cannot, be the final step toward equality.

[bluedawg12]

79. "since he nearly swallowed honey when he hugged her"

Was that necessary Rick?:freak:

[racaulk]

88. Good grief, I can't read that drivel!

[QC]

91. It's like being trapped in an AOL chatroom! n/t

[racaulk]

94. Seriously!

If I wanted to read writing like that, I'd be a middle school teacher!

:rofl:

[MNBrewer]

98. So now we're attacking AOL Chatrooms

:sarcasm:

Blindness, BLINDNESS!!!!

[QC]

101. LOL! And attacking inarticulate pubescent girls, too! n/t

[racaulk]

102. Stop it!!!

:rofl:

[noamnety]

105. follow-up post from her

he was just so cute and lovable and cuddly ... you should have seen how he hugged my honey while telling her she was basically like a pedophile but we weren't offended cuz we knew it was just his religion talking. we call it consenting adults, he calls it molesting children, it's all just like different words for hats.

[jonnyblitz]

110. LMFAO!!

:rofl:

[bluedawg12]

114. ROTFL LMAO

:spray: :spray: :spray: :spray:

[Zuiderelle]

118. !!

:patriot:

[Bluebear]

165. hehehehehehehehehehe

[Name removed]

119. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Neecy]

135. he LOVES gays?

wtf? What is this illiterate crap? How old is this idiot?

[FreeState]

140. Unfortunately Melissa Etheridge's partner (they are not married) is very uninformed on GLBT issues

She was on Oprah talking about Prop 8 after it passed and Melissa was correcting her live because she clearly did not have a handle on the difference between Civil Unions and Marriages. She is not a spoke person for the GLBT movement and anyone trying to pass her off as one is causing the movement damage IMO.

[Jamastiene]

142. Hmm...I'm thinking it's the looks and the sex, because it sure isn't intelligent conversation.

Why Melissa Etheridge married her... :eyes:

[bluedawg12]

150. This blog is a joke, right?

Not that it matters what the blogger thinks, but has the OP been verified already?

[Jamastiene]

163. I don't know, but ME is already blocked on my Myspace page...

I don't play. It would be wrong, in my beliefs, NOT to block her if this is true. If she's in any way supporting that rat bastard Warren, she's outta there.

Has there been a discrepancy at to whether it is for real or not? I'm still all sleepy eyed. I slept really hard today and just woke up. :hangover:

I saw the OP and :nuke:

[bluedawg12]

168. If this is for real it does not change a thing- he is a hater.

I came up from dinner and read most of the blog which made no sense, it was incoherent.

Who cares what anyone says, the truth is out there.

Not for one nano-second does this change Warrens ugly homophobic history and rhetoric. If anything he is a more dangerous liar and manipulator than before.

If the blog is real, I didn't read every reply to see if it was verified, but if it was, all I can say is that he found a useful idiot.

[Jamastiene]

174. Of course, he is a hater.

But if she is supporting him, it changes how I see her.

[LostinVA]

206. Me too

[NMMNG]

154. It would seem

Melissa didn't marry her for her intelligence....

[bluedawg12]

157. Rick Warren has no gay friends!

There may be a few people he has met that he has manipulated, but, it is highly likely they don't know jack-shit about what he has actually gone on record as saying.

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/18/7475

So, he said we’re no better than the lowest criminals — even serial-killing and elderly-raping felons think child molesters are the lowest of the low — and then he laughs when we call him on it.

By the way, he’s not homophobic beause he now has “a hundred gay friends.” Would just one of those gay friends please contact me?

[NMMNG]

164. Of course Rick Warren is a liar

All the rabid homophobes claim to have hordes of gay friends so they can pretend they don't hate gay people, but merely disagree with being gay. But what self-respecting gay person would be friends with someone who voted away their rights and preached hatred toward them?

[bluedawg12]

169. No self respecting gay would be friends with this man.

Why would a president elect, who claims to be have devoted his life to fighting for civil rights invite this man to a position of visibility and to honor him with a historic invocation?

"Warren has stated that homosexual behavior is not a natural way of life and and that gay marriage is not a civil right." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Warren

Not only has this day been sureal here, but ever since PHate8 passed it has been odd, now, since this Warren invitation it's as if we have two forums, those who are social conservatives and then, gays and supporters.

I'm new to gay issues on DU, has it always been like this?

[NMMNG]

172. Sadly it's always been like this here

Every election cycle we get told to shut up about our rights lest we "make the Dems lose the election". If same-sex marriage is up in any state and we lose the election they blame us for it; after all, we just had to whine about our rights when a critical election was going on. Every time we dare to mention our rights we're told to keep it quiet because there's a primary/presidential election/midterm/whatever coming up and we don't want to screw it up for the Dems.

Then of course there's the BS whereby any time we speak out against bigotry and injustice we're just a bunch of whiny, hand-wringing nellies who need to STFU because there are much more important things going on than our piddly little rights. :eyes:

[bluedawg12]

176. I was afraid there was a pattern

of this and I see it now with all of the reminders about how we have bigger issues.

There will always be other issues - everyone knows that - whether they are “bigger” is totally subjective, besides, everything everyone else feels as grinding in on them, gays also feel those same pressures (economy, jobs, etc) plus hateful prejudice after the years of hostile bigotry under the **** years. Even before, when the repugs and Newt brought all of the family values jargon to the front and center of domestic politics.

This time is different and the GE is over, Democrats are in power and interestingly popular opinion seems to be moving towards gay marriage as people were probably made aware of the injustice of actually taking away marriage rights, once conferred by the California Supreme Court.

This time it felt like, even after the gut wrenching loss to PHate8, momentum was on our side historically.

I am aware of social conservatives in both parties, that’s just the reality of it. That seems to be part of the resistence in what was once such a left wing-ish forum, the other piece seems to be that some are too closely invested in this victory to see that the man they admire is not fragile, does indeed court contrarian opinions
and is making a name for himself by picking a “team of rivals” and yet some are over protective when they don’t need to be.

I think the worst thing we can do is disappear and go away. The bigger issues require a POTUS, our battle is a civil rights issue and one that can actually be managed on a grass roots level, of course with political support up and down the party line, to the top.

If the most ardent supporters trust him at the helm, then, this fight of ours for justice will not interfere with his duties.

Also, while PE Obama may not have spoken in favor of same sex marriage pre-election, I think he is capable of changing and evolving. I mention that because some think that platform, as a candidate, is written in stone. It is not. They ought to give him more credit than that.

Thanks for your input and feed back.

Good night.

bd12

[kstewart33]

188. Good point.

In some ways, you've been taken for granted by the Dem party the same way that the Repubs have taken the Christian fundies for granted and worse, has used them.

But that's not the point with this issue and with Melissa's partner's perspective. I don't think she meant that at all.

[bluedawg12]

202. kstewart33 - what validation do you have to prove

that ME's "wife" as you say,actually wrote this blog?

I might have missed it in one of the many threads.

[kstewart33]

223. Look at the other preceding posts by others in this thread.

One of them did the research and confirmed that it's Tammy. Melissa has just released her own commentary on Huffington Post. I just posted it in this forum a few minutes ago.

[jonnyblitz]

166. this has been a truly strange day here Buffy. I am not sure

if you were lurking around at all much today or not. people have been losing it like I have never seen before, mostly our "opponents".

[NMMNG]

167. I was at work most of the day

But I see it's pretty much par for the course around here. Every time we speak up we're the bad guys and the jagoffs come out in force to slap us back into our "places".

Makes me remember why I don't spend much time here any more.

[davidinalameda]

156. does she have all 1200 rights?

[MNBrewer]

159. Nope

[bluedawg12]

160. If this is for real, it shows what a dangerous, manipulative bastage Warren is

he is everything people say about him and he is just like his own hero, Fallwell.

[mondo joe]

170. And Clarence Thomas is a Bush fan.

So?

[KitchenWitch]

171. Nothing like rubbing people's faces in it.

Quite frankly I find this post offensive. Just because ONE lesbian is not offended by Rick Warren's rhetoric, does not mean all GLBTQ people should not be upset by him and his message.

Your posting this here serves nothing other than causing a place that is supposed to be a safe haven to become a hostile environment. Congratulations, you must be so proud.

Now go away and stop posting your bullshit in here.

[LostinVA]

183. You just don't understand how COMPLICATED the issue is

You silly little GLBT ally.

:eyes:

[kstewart33]

189. How is a differing view bullshit?

This one lesbian talked and spent time with Warren. That makes her perspective more interesting.

How is posting a different view from within the gay community offensive? Why do you automatically ascribe the worst motives simply because I posted something that I thought was worth reading simply because she is gay, she spent time with Warren, and she has a different view?

[KitchenWitch]

222. You are essentially saying that because Melissa Etheridge's partner

wants to be an Uncle Tom, and is happy drinking out of the "colored" fountain, that ALL GLBTs should be happy settling for fewer rights.

Your post is not a "difference of opinion". Your post is complete flamebait and you know it.

I call bullshit when I see it. Seriously this thread has more bullshit than a beef cattle farm.

[kstewart33]

227. That's not what I'm saying at all.

Neither is Melissa Etheridge. I don't think she's happy drinking out of the colored fountain. She sure as heck hasn't lived her life like that.

But she does agree with her partner and she disagrees with you. So what does that make her? An Uncle Tom, a ______, a ____, oh what the hey, fill in the blanks. Same with Sullivan. He's a this, a that. They're all scum, right? And why?

Because they disagree with you.

[enigmatic]

173. She writes like she has the IQ of a canned ham

Wow.

[Chovexani]

178. Tammy is what they call dumb as hell

And yes, I met her years ago, through a mutual friend that at the time was at about her Z-list WB level of fame and is now hugely famous. This was when Popular just started airing. I had no idea who she was but was struck immediately by how out of it she was.

No one would know who the hell Tammy was but for the fact she married Melissa, and I can almost guarantee any politial ish she got was from her. That's not me being catty either, that's some good ole fashioned trufax. She's as sweet as can be but I would not be holding her up as some kind of bellweather for the LGBT community. Or even blondes for that matter.

[RetiredTrotskyite]

179. She Sure As Hell Does Not Know...

how to spell or punctuate properly. It's sad how illiterate some people are in this country. Nope, she is definitely no bellweather for the GLBT community.

[Chovexani]

180. I wish I could say it was an uncommon thing among my generation

But it's just not. I blame MySpace and texting. I'm only 27, I should not be wanting to chase people my own age off my lawn, but, ugh.

Then again, Rosie's blog is just as incoherent, so I don't know what her excuse is.

[HamdenRice]

184. What a wonderful thoughtful letter. I disagree with her, but it's very thoughtful! nt

[Zuiderelle]

192. No surprise there.

That you think that crap is thoughtful.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

217. in the sense that its complete devoid of any intellectual thought or merit?

[Critters2]

194. A yamaka?! WTf? I've read a lot of stupid crap here the last few days,

but this may be the stupidest.

Oh, and my religion requires me to hold progressive positions. Maybe Rick's religion and mine should be locked in a room together and made to duke it out.

What stupidity.

[yardwork]

197. I can't believe that this is real.

Nobody is this stupid. Yamaka?

No way. This is somebody's idea of a stupid joke.

[bluedawg12]

199. I'm thinking that as well.

It's funny enough to be a joke, and stupid enough to not matter even if it is not.

[Irishonly]

198. What is so hard to understand about civil rights for all?

I don't get it. I have read a number of Warren threads and I get depressed and angry. What is so hard to understand that prop 8 took away rights and changed a constitution to something which limits instead of granting? A minority group's rights were thrown out like old dish water and it's wrong.

Warren supported 8. He is for discrimination which he justifies by the stupid, trite, love the sinner, hate the sin. It doesn't mean smoke comes out of his ears when he speaks to a gay person. I was taught a long time ago if you have to say that you have _____ friends (substitute any word), you have a problem. People like him are just plain scary.

I am angry about Warren. If Obama thinks reaching out to Warren will get him votes next time I will believe it can snow in Death Valley at high noon on July 4th. I don't think anything will change the plans.

[Zuiderelle]

201. What goes on in the head of someone who would post this shit in a gay forum?

That's what I want to know.

[LostinVA]

203. I think we both know the answer to that one

[Zuiderelle]

204. Yeah, I suppose it was rhetorical.

I'm just trying to not get any more posts deleted here. I don't quite get why this thread is still unlocked. I know what purpose it serves the OP, I guess, but what purpose does it serve US?

[LostinVA]

205. I don't know why it's still open, either

This is GLBT, not GD or GDP.

[kstewart33]

208. Why shouldn't it be open?

You're checking in as still are plenty of others.

[LostinVA]

212. YOU know why -- your arrogance is astounding

I check my front yard every day to see if the dog shit from the guy walking his dog is still there. The shit he had no reason to put there except to act like an ass. Same thing here.

[kstewart33]

207. What is wrong with posting it in this forum?

I posted it in this forum because the writer is gay and is writing about an issue that seems to be the most talked-about issue lately in the DU gay community.

[Bluebear]

209. LMAO she's "writing"!

[LostinVA]

213. Yes, a very serious Op/ED piece -- I think the Advocate is reprinting it

[bluedawg12]

210. You've already said that. Thank you for your opinion.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

215. Is the woman illiterate? this is the writing style of a stupid 5th grade

my 11 year old brother can be more coherent than this

"the big rick's yamaka

OMG. when was the last time i had so many minutes to play with my blog? awesome."

[LostinVA]

216. You don't get to come in the GLBT Forum and frame the issue and discussion

WE do.

You can post this in GD and GDP all the want, but posting it in here is nothing but rank arrogance and "fuckyouness."

This is the last I discuss this with you. Your behavior in this thread and in this forum has been appalling. I know longer even feel anger for you, only pity. Because you have no idea how desperate your posts seem.

[kstewart33]

228. What we've had isn't a discussion.

It's been more like a one-way rant.

And I truly don't understand why any member of DU cannot post in the gay forum a view by a gay woman who has more first-hand knowledge of Warren than any of the rest of us on this thread has.

If being gay is the requirement for 'membership' in this forum, then why not create a forum for blacks, for Asians, for Latinos, for Jews, for Hindus, for southerners, for you name it. Let's divvy us all up into different categories.

And not let anyone in unless they present their stamped membership card and pledge to agree with every other member of the club.

Now, that's a way to live.

No thank you ma'am. This is DU, and I will post in any forum any time with any perspective as long as it does not curse other DU members as I have been cursed here, and it treats other people with respect.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

229. There is a forum for African Americans on here

And, I think a forum for Asians and Latinos.

You don't belong in this forum, no matter what you say.

[kstewart33]

230. No, there is not.

To DU's credit, there are no race-based or ethnicity-based forums.

When someone on this thread posts a non-threatening, non-cursing explanation of why a fellow DUer who supports gay rights and full-marriage rights, has no business posting in a DU forum, an explanation that is consistent with our Constitutional rights of free speech, then I'll leave.

[jonnyblitz]

231. OH yes there is and HERE is the link!

you might want to check things before you shoot your mouth off and EMBARRASS yourself.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=258

[jonnyblitz]

232. there are also Irish , Latino, and Asian-American groups

and I can provide you the links to those if you like.

[kstewart33]

234. Jonny, I stand corrected.

I also read the rules about the groups, one being "Please be aware that no members "own" or "run" any particular group, nor do members have the ability to decide who participates in any given group."

So, what's your point?

[lightningandsnow]

218. You know what?

I don't personally agree with her, but she met the guy, and is entitled to her opinion. Meeting someone charismatic can swing your views of them, a lot. And I know she was raised in a very religious environment, so, rightly or wrongly, she kind of extends more sympathy to people who are, basically, phobes. I don't get it, personally, though.

And before you start attacking me and saying I don't know anything because I'm "straight", just because I had a male partner at one point does not make one straight. Pansexuality. Look it up.

[yardwork]

226. Nobody had better attack you or impose their own definitions on you.

Almost all the lesbians I know had male partners at one time or another. Heck, I was married to one for more than twenty years. Wonderful person, too, and I'm glad that he's the father of my children.

We define ourselves. Other people don't get to define us.

[readmoreoften]

220. So Melissa Etheridge shacked up with a hetero who's using her for her $$$ just like Ellen did, huh?

Anne Hache 2: the Sequel.

Hint: I don't give a fuck about what some dumb rock musicians illiterate-ass wife says. She gets the pink tank with the rest of 'em.

[AntiFascist]

221. All I can think of...

is how warm Adolph Hitler must have seemed to his friends, some of which could have been gay as well.

This is doubly dangerous, the fact that Warren can appear so warm and friendly yet spew the same veiled hatred as Jerry Falwell...he's like the guy who got sElected because people wanted to sit down with him and have a beer.

There's a great dialog going on on satellite radio. Some of the callers in to Michaelangelo Signorile really get it.

[Bluebear]

233. kick for truth!