Rick Warren pulls anti-gay language from his Web site

[meegbear]

Deny me three times, Rick?

So Rick Warren pulled the anti-gay language from his church Web site. The site used to explicitly ban gays from membership in the church.



Now the offending language is one, but you can still find the anti-gay language via Google's cache (you can get to the cache from the link below -- meegbear).

So does Rick Warren now welcome gays, all gays, as members of his church? Or is he simply embarrassed of his views - embarrassed of God's views, per Warren's own admission? And if Warren is embarrassed of God's views, then what is he doing as a public spokesman on religion?

And whose idea was it to remove the anti-gay language? Warren's, or Obama's?

http://www.americablog.com/2008/12/rick-warren-pulls-anti-gay-language.html

[jefferson_dem]

1. A step, albeit tiny, in the right direction.

We'll see if this is just temporary *political* posturing.

[LostinVA]

4. He hasn't changed a fucking thing except for his webpage

His beliefs and bigotry have gotten a huge amount of press all over. He was told to cleanse the page.

[Lerkfish]

5. yup, that has my vote.

I think that is exactly what happened.

[noamnety]

10. I have no doubt that's what happened. He's still a pig.

However, that's progress for the rest of the world - shaming the pigs into shutting up.

And that's exactly why when people tell me "oh, don't call bigots what they are, talk to them nicely, that's the only way to sway them" I ignore them. Talking nice makes it comfortable for Warren to continue spreading his bigotry. Calling him what he is very directly makes him squirm.

Same with folks on DU, despite the pleas to "be nice." I know I pissed some people off over the last week, because I made it very clear that I wasn't excusing or dismissing their bigotry, which created tension. There SHOULD be tension for a person if they are promoting homophobia.

I don't have any illusions that racists, sexists or homophobic idiots are going to change their mind because sweet-talked them with honey and logic. The best I got is shaming them into stopping spreading their disease to others because they don't like being called bigots. I honestly think that's the only thing that resonates with a lot of them.

[jefferson_dem]

15. Scrubbing anti-GLBT rhetoric from a website is not a bad thing.

Sorry it offends you so.

[QC]

17. Do you honestly think the doctrine or policy has changed? n/t

[Jamastiene]

18. A lot of people really are THAT naive.

:puke:

[LostinVA]

20. But not Jeff Dem

[jefferson_dem]

28. Curious.

Did you ever decide to back our democratic nominee for potus? If I recall, you were on the fence for a while.

[LostinVA]

19. I prefer an honest bigot any day -- and stuff your offense wherever you want

YOU don't get to frame the discussion in this Forum, no matter how used you are to doing that vile garbage over in GD and GDP.

[HillWilliam]

23. Scrubbing the words

without scrubbing the heart and deeds is mere windowdressing. Feh. The GOP and RW preachahs have pulled this shell-game crap since RayGun. We're supposed to fall for it again?

I. Don't. Think. So.

Shoving bigotry underground doesn't solve or stop it. It just hides it, still there, still squirming nastily under the surface. Unless Warren comes out with a statement to the effect of "I was wrong and here's how I've been enlightened...", I won't believe a word of it. There has been a positively thunderous lack of retraction. The only change there has been is a little bit of eraser taken to a secondary page of a site. Ho-hum. He's been caught out, called out, and made to clean up so as not to embarrass the PE any further. That's it and all.

So, hey, Rick Warren,

[kenny blankenship]

29. At the same time though, flushing evidence is never considered an exonerating thing

But I got rid of most it! is not a good defense to try with judges and juries.

[Chovexani]

22. Take off the rose colored glasses son

You guys are some of the most gullible people on the planet. I bet you believed Saddam blew up the WTC himself

[LostinVA]

25. Duh -- his sons helped him, too

:eyes:

[jefferson_dem]

27. Perhaps you would prefer the bigoted exclusionary policy remained on the site.

Your straw man is rather flimsy. Nobody said Warren has undergone some amazing revelation and is now cured of his bigoted beliefs. Of course, all that's changed so far is a passage on the website.

The ironic thing is...it's the exact same "us versus them" "good versus evil" phony dualist paradigm Booosh promoted that you still cling to. Is Warren an 'evil doer' in your world?

[beam me up scottie]

32. Actually, yes, honesty is preferable, it makes it easier to identify our enemies.

Warren is more of a threat than other blatantly hateful christian leaders because he seems so nice and reasonable.

Do you really think he's changed? Maybe he had a visit from the ghosts of past, present and future?

[MADem]

2. Fascinating. Is Rick Warren auditioning to be 21st Century Billy Graham, Pastor to Presidents?

I think that IS what is going on here.

[LostinVA]

3. Jama noticed yesterday he had pulled the anti-women stuff, too

She posted the link of the cached (read: REAL) version yesterday.

Methinks he was asked (read: ORDERED) to do so).

[Marrah_G]

6. ANYONE who believes this any sort of progress is niave

Warren hasn't changed.

His followers haven't changed.

He will be right back to preaching that gays are like Pedophiles and drug addicts the day after the inauguration with all that Cred our new president is giving him.

[tekisui]

13. Yep, see his newest video:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4706316

[NWHarkness]

7. Are you sure he didn't just loan it to another site? n/t

[sundog]

8. lipstick on a pig

[La Lioness Priyanka]

9. ...

:applause:

[Zuiderelle]

26. Exactly!

[GodlessBiker]

11. Is it possible that he feels guilty?

Naaaaaaaaaaaa. Pure political opportunism.

[jefferson_dem]

16. It's possible this is progress.

Personally, I don't give a fuck if he scrubbed it out of political opportunism, shame, or whatever. The less hate, bigotry, and division the better we all are.

[LostinVA]

21. There isn't less hate or bigotry within Warren's Empire

:eyes:

[plantwomyn]

31. Pardon me if I don't see his scrub as progress.

I'd like to see "Progress we can believe in".
In the cached version his church demands that homosexuals repent if they want to join.

http://74.125.95.132/search?
q=cache: PXTZQFA_15kJ:www.saddlebackfamily.com/membership/group_finder/faqs_saddleback.asp%3Fid%3D7509+http://www.saddlebackfamily.com/membership/group_finder/faqs_smallgroup.asp%3Fid%3D7509%23q_49&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=safari
#48
What does the Bible say about homosexuality?
The Bible very clearly says that homosexuality is a sin.

"Homosexuality is absolutely forbidden, for it is an enormous sin." (Lev. 18:22 TLB)

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Cor 6: 9-11 NIV)

Why does he quote two different bibles, both of which are "modern" translations of less "modern" translations?

And then:
"I've heard it asked, "Isn't being homosexual something that a person is physically born with?" First of all, there are absolutely no facts to support this claim. From time to time studies have been reported in the news that seemed to indicate this, but every one of these studies has proven to be wrong. Secondly, even if some physical difference were discovered, it would be no excuse for sin. We know that some people can develop a stronger physical addiction to alcohol than others, but that's obviously no excuse for living an alcoholic lifestyle."

Please notice that NOWHERE does he demand that idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, slanderers or swindlers repent. Only homosexuals and those that commit the "sexual sin of living together before marriage".

It is not "progress" when a bigot is chased into his hole to hide. He still resides there in wait. Unfortunately "OUR" PE is about to give him the largest and most respected platform to crawl out on and spew his ideology.

[Phredicles]

24. It's possible he's feeling the heat,

in which case, that's good.

[QC]

12. Public relations. n/t

[TechBear_Seattle]

14. Idiots who never heard of web-page caching

MiniTrue wanna-bes who think that embarassing stuff can just be dumped down the memory hole and no one will ever know the difference.

[QC]

30. It's a lot like what happens here.

The nastiest bigotry is dropped into the memory hole so that everyone can deny it ever existed.

[TEmperorHasNoClothes]

33. I'm glad someone got a screen shot...

...of Warren's hate filled bigotrty before he changed it.
I think Warren removed it because he didn't want to be uninvited to speak at the inauguration. I don't think Obama realized how bigotted Warren was when he asked him. Obama couldn't uninvite Warren simply because we wanted him to, because that would have made him look week and people would think all they had to do was protest to get him to change his mind. I wish more of the people speaking out against Warren would realize we're upset because he compares gay marriage to incest. I can deal with a minister not supporting gay marriage if s/he keeps those views to himself and doesn't preach those views. The minute that minister breaks the law and uses the pulpit while accepting tax exempt status, then I have a problem. When that minister goes on to get into the political battle for MY civil rights to marry who I love, then I have a BIG problem.