Anyone else here who realized that they were gay in middle-life or later?

[yardwork]

As I've posted before, I didn't know that I was a lesbian until I was 45. Before then I was married for 20+ years, had two children, and lived a fairly conventional life as a suburban soccer mom.

I feel a little like Tiresias, the figure in Greek mythology who lived as both a man and a woman. Since I genuinely did not know that I was gay, I lived a life as close to being straight as a gay person can. That is, I know now that I have been a lesbian all my life but since I repressed that knowledge and consciously believed myself to be straight, I came close to actually "being" straight. So I've lived both sides, in a way.

When I first realized that I was queer I figured that I must be the only person in the world clueless enough to have literally not known it until I was middle-aged. Then I did some research and discovered that it's not that unusual. I've met some other women who had the same experience, and read about many, many more.

Is there anyone else here with a similar experience? If so, would you post on this thread? I'd like to talk about ways that we can use our experience to further the cause of human rights. I feel that our experience can be a valuable contribution.

[MadMaddie]

1. I was 30

I was a bit slow..women were always hitting on me...I just had no clue that that's what they were doing!! :eyes:

I have been with my partner for 13 years.

[yardwork]

2. Do you feel that you lived life "as a straight person" until you were 30?

I'm interested in the perspective of those of us who thought we were straight. I think that our experience is something that we can contribute.

For me, I know that my previous life gave me demonstrable privileges that I no longer have - and I'm not inclined to accept that inequality. My heterosexual marriage was celebrated and valued by society, as was my role as a wife and member of a traditional family.

I have not changed. I am the same person I always was. But my decision to change partners has dramatically changed society's legal and cultural view of me. Suddenly I am an "abomination." Suddenly I am denied the rights I always had before.

It changed me from a fairly conventional person to a radical.

[MadMaddie]

3. My dad was military so I lived the hetero life

I can say that something was missing in the intimacy with the men that I dated.

The first time I walked into Lesbian bar I felt comfortable for the first time in my life. I felt I didn't have to put on a facade.

I do find it difficult sometimes in social situations when others are talking about their wife or husband and if I don't know them I don't say anything. All of my co-workers know about my partner because I refuse to hide it and our company has strict policy on discrimination of any kind.

I do live in a state where we have domestic partnership cards we are legally recognized by the state. We still do not have all of the rights as a heterosexual married couple and I think we should. I pay a different tax than a married couple does for her health insurance. And the list goes on.

My feelings are pretty simple, if we are American citizens and we pay taxes then we should get the same rights as all other Americans.

[yardwork]

7. I live in the southeast where blatant, open homophobia is the norm.

I'm fortunate to live in a progressive college town but I have zero legal rights. I can be fired for being gay. Despite that I'm openly out at work. I'm one of the very few who are out in my work place. I know some who are closeted and suspect that others are as well.

There are no options for domestic partnerships, civil unions, or, God forbid, marriage here in fundy land. Most churches are openly and unapologetically homophobic. Gay families are asked not to join most of the mainstream churches here because "it will make the other congregants uncomfortable." There are many extremist right-wing churches who believe that gay folks should be killed. Despite all this, there is a large and thriving community of gay folks and their supporters here. But that's not the point of my thread.

I'm thinking that those of us who have lived "both sides" have a unique perspective to bring.

[MineralMan]

4. It wasn't me, but

my previous wife was 39 years old when she found herself in love with a woman. This seemed to come as a surprise to her. We had been quite happy together for 17 years. After some distress, then some recovery, our marriage ended and she moved in with the woman.

There wasn't really any animosity connected with the change, and we remained friends and still are. I remarried shortly thereafter, and have now been married to my current wife for 18 years.

What a puzzling turn of events, but there it is. Love works in strange ways, it seems.

[yardwork]

8. I'm sorry that happened to you. That's what happened to my former husband.

I love him very much and we had a happy marriage. He was my best friend. We had a normal sex life - whatever normal is - it seemed just like everyone else's, anyway.

I was surprised to find myself in love with a woman. I didn't act on my feelings, but one day while I was pondering things I suddenly realized that I was and had always been a lesbian. This came as a shock to me but at the same time, everything fell into place. I had always felt different. Suddenly it all made sense.

It was very wrenching to my then-husband and our children, but everyone has moved on with their lives. He and I had an amicable divorce and he remarried and seems to be very happy. Our children are doing well in school and socially, they seem to have weathered it well.

I'm glad that you are happy. Thank you for posting on this thread.

[MineralMan]

10. I'm glad to share...

When I got the news, I was disappointed and a little hurt. But, we sat down and talked about it, like we did about pretty much everything. It didn't take that long before we came to grips with the situation. We flew her new love out from New York and I moved into the back bedroom while we all got to know one another.

As it turned out, it was time to move on, so we all moved on. I've moved away from that town in California now, and live in Minnesota. My current wife and I got married in California, and my former wife and her partner attended the wedding and reception.

Many raised eyebrows all around, but never mind. Our divorce was simple and amicable. There were no children, so that simplified things a lot.

It's funny how things turn out. Life's a trip.

[yardwork]

12. It sounds like you were incredibly understanding and kind.

My former husband was also wonderful, as I knew he would be - he's that kind of person. If I weren't gay I never would have left him.

[MineralMan]

13. Sometimes it all just works out OK.

I figure we're exceptions, though. I think such situations usually don't go well at all.

I also think you had the answer there. You and your former husband were friends. So were my former wife and I. In fact, friendship was always the cornerstone of our relationship. That made it possible to wish each other the best and take whatever path life had in store for us.

That said, I'm sort of a roll with it sort of person. It's very difficult to overwhelm me, it seems. So, I guess that's part of the equation, too.

I'm very glad that things worked out well for you. Being happy in your life is a great goal, and one not always realized.

[yardwork]

14. Friendship is, indeed, the cornerstone.

Best to you, MineralMan.

[Fran Kubelik]

18. That's what I always say too.

I was in my mid-30s.

[yardwork]

25. Thank you for posting on this thread.

[Mike 03]

20. Wow, thanks for sharing that. I wanted to try to talk about my ex-wife, because

she had conflicted feelings too. Her mother had had an affair with a woman, and my sister felt that my ex wife might have feelings for women.

It is something that has haunted me for a long time. And hurt me too. I would never ever had judged her for having those feelings, but I just wish, if she had them, that she had told me. That would be been the best thing in the world. My heart would have gone out to her. But it turned into an ugly divorce, probably for no good reason. She was a brilliant, creative person. I would have supported her no matter what, but she wanted to sever all communication.

It's amazing to be able to talk about these complex, confusing, at times hurtful, things, but I'm so glad there is a forum where we can. What a relief. I can't think of another place in this world where I could ever discuss these topics.

By the way, we were in our very early 30s when our marriage crisis happened.

[MineralMan]

29. It's hard to know what to do...

I'm sorry you had a difficult time. Every situation, I guess, is different, and the people involved in every situation are different, too. I was very fortunate, as was yardwork, in being with a partner where friendship was so much a part of the relationship. That let things develop and resolve without so much conflict and bitterness.

That's not to say that it wasn't a difficult time. It was, but, in retrospect, it went about as well as it possibly could have. Lots of talking went on. Lots of tears. But, in the end, concern for the well-being of everyone won the day.

I'm sure that those two situations were not typical, based on all the other relationships I've seen over the years.

As long as you are able, now, to see what happened in a clear light and are able to deal with it, it worked out OK, it seems to me. Life's full of painful stuff. It's how you deal with the pain and move on to the next part of your life that is important.

Keep well.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

5. I suspect this might be more common for women than men

Not living a closeted life, but rather coming to an actual realization later in life. I know several gay women who, like you, were in heterosexual relationships for years. I don't know how your straight marriage was, but I honestly believe that because women are socialized to believe that sex isn't that important to us and that it's not as essential for us to be attracted to our partners as vice versa, that it might not even occur to some women in straight relationships that they aren't attracted to men at all. (I hope that made sense :) )

[yardwork]

9. Yes, that makes sense. It does seem to happen to women more often.

Speaking for myself, I very much bought into the fairytale story line when I was an adolescent. Instead of thinking about what and who I really liked, I felt it was my role in life to grow up, go to college, meet a nice man, and settle down to have kids and a career that was important but not as important as his. Everything in my upbringing reinforced this as the only valid path for women of my socio-economic group.

I didn't know any lesbians who were out. Later I learned that I did, of course, know lesbians. Unfortunately, because they had to hide their lives I thought they were straight. They were unavailable to me as role models.

The stereotypes of lesbians didn't match me at all. I'm feminine. I always liked playing with dolls and getting dressed up. I always wanted children. I like growing flowers and reading books and putting on jewelry.

The combination of negative stereotypes and invisibility of lesbians who didn't match those stereotypes left me sure that that wasn't me. I suspect that there are a lot of other women who never realize that they are more attracted to women than men.

[qb]

6. Not exactly "realized", but came out at 42.

I had enough attraction to my wife to think I could make a straight marriage work, but alas I was wrong. I'm now divorced and happily gay.

I have met other lesbians who say they had happy straight relationships and did not realize their orientation until later in life. With one exception the gay guys I know in similar circumstances "knew" but tried to fit into a straight world.

[yardwork]

11. Thank you for posting on this thread.

I think that as gay rights gain legitimacy, there will be more and more people coming out as gay. That's going to bother the folks who think that being gay is rare and abnormal.

I'm interested in the potential insights that those of us who came out in middle age or later can bring to the movement.

[bluedawg12]

16. Not to buttinski in here - but you have already made a signficant insight

having seen what acceptance is for heterosexual relationships and how society affirms and reinforces those, you find it incomprehensible that the "same you" is now an abomination.

I think folks that bring that perspective to gay rights bring something very valuable. The outrage that comes from being demoted in society because of who you love and not who you were, and are, is something that those of us who have always been gay and treated accordingly in a hostile society may have a tendency expect and perhaps, even grudgingly accept.

My partner was married, divorced and in an opposite sex relationship when we met. Thankfully we have lasted over 22 years.

I can see how we differ in a more subtle way about our perception of fear and even acceptance of societal shame.

I have to fight against those much more consciously, as I have always lived with that.

People who have tasted full and equal rights and acceptance may find it even harder to accept the prejudice and bias and add a strong voice to the fight having seen both perspectives.

I have to qualify that though, I think it may be analogous to the younger generation of gays, who never lived through the old days of secrecy and silence and they too are less accustomed to accepting and tolerating bigotry as "that’s just how things are."

[yardwork]

21. All these things are very interesting to me.

[Chovexani]

22. I'm glad you brought that up, because I struggle with those feelings.

Being bisexual, and in a mixed-gender triad opened my eyes in a way that serial monogamy didn't, even though I have had both hetero and lesbian relationships in the past. Having them concurrently is something else entirely, even without the added layer of complexity that polyamory brings to the equation (and the fact that it's interracial, as well).

I can literally experience the "demotion" thing within a matter of minutes, depending on who I am talking to. If I'm with the BF, I can literally see how people will treat me differently as opposed to if I'm with the GF. Even just talking about them; I am liable to go on and on about both of them, and I find that even among people who are cool with the poly thing there is always that vague sense of paternalism when I talk about my gf. "Oh, isn't that cute." And among straights, there is almost always the assumption that my relationship with the Dude is the "Real One" and my Lady is some sort of sex toy to spice up a boring hetero relationship or side fling, a diversion for when I get too bored with my man (or, from more judgmental types, something that is going on entirely for his benefit because "Lesbians" Are Hot). "It's great that you and your boyfriend have an open relationship like that" is common among these people. They have a way of rendering her downright invisible. It can be a really subtle kind of prejudice but it's there and it makes me want to throw things. Especially when they are not so subtle about it, and I get asked when we're going to dump her, the expectation being that once BF and I "get serious", we will put the toy back on the shelf.

The fucking hysterical thing is me and my GF have been together far longer than either one of us have been with the boy, and she and I made the decision to open up our relationship to him. I think to some degree it is just typical ignorance as to how polyamory actually works and people still confuse it with swinging, etc. But I honestly think a lot of it's because on the relationship food chain, lesbian relationships are still considered "quaint" on some level, and not real because no peen is involved. It's that ole sexism beast rearing its ugly head.

Yeah, did I mention it was infuriating?

[yardwork]

24. You experience the contrasts minute by minute, day by day.

My former husband and I sometimes go to our sons' school and sports events together, and people who don't know that we are divorced assume that we are a couple. The treatment we get is very different from the reaction my androgynous-looking female partner and I get, even in this relatively progressive town.

As you say, a lot of it is what doesn't happen. Rather than outright rudeness, there's a kind of a cold shoulder thing going on. It would seem like nothing to someone not experiencing it on a day-to-day basis, but it wears me down. Combined with the legal discrimination and outspoken nastiness against gay people in our society, it hurts. It's why we "go off" sometimes.

Your post also points out the many different experiences among "gay" people. Your life is different from mine, and ours is different from that of a gay man, and all three of us have different experiences from a transgendered person. All the variables apply to gay folks - we are all genders (and none), all colors and cultures, all types of relationships, all religions, all income levels - even all political points of view. It's maddening (and laughable) to hear us all lumped into one category and then be told that "our leaders" should do a better job advocating for our rights!

[Chovexani]

27. One of the things I love about our community

Is how diverse we are, like you said, we all have different backgrounds, and it's neat how we all bring different perspectives to the table. It's an amazingly cool thing! Even with the problems that can sometimes spring up because of that, I wouldn't trade it for the world. It's like any huge family in that regard. And I love hearing other people's stories, even when they are difficult and sad, because hearing those different perspectives is a good thing. Which is why I'm in this thread, despite having come out at 16. :)

Incidentally, that's why I laugh so hard when people start talking about "The Gay Lifestyle". It's like, dude, which one? There's approximately 500 for every one of us. Mine happens to involve a lot of Playstation and Doritos.

[bluedawg12]

28. How we expect to be treated also seems to depend on where we came from.

I never expected to be treated by the straight world as a couple based on what I knew about how gay folk were treated growing up.

My partner was more cool about it, now that I look back, I was the closed one and didn’t want their endorsement, never expected it.

The way it worked out is that the people who mattered to us already figured it out and were cool about it.

Also, I got the chip off my shoulder socially. Before, my approach was, “ Go ahead, look at me funny, I dare you.”

Now, I learned from my partner that smiling at people has some magic to it. So, I smile at everyone, funny, very few people return a smile with a second angry or hostile look.

If they do I weigh my options, generally I conclude that I am very lucky and would not want to be in their lives or their shoes for anything. So, I let a “look” slide.

Words? Perhaps that would be a different story. Doesn’t happen much, a smile and direct eye contact usually works on fear-biting-bullies and people don’t usually have the courage to come out and openly say things in a pubic setting.

What I am hearing is that it is rough getting society to accept couples who don’t fit their comfortable hetero-normative expectations.

Honestly, it just takes time. Like I said, people I have never spoken to, but know me on sight in town, may come over and say, “Oh, are you looking for your partner. The third aisle down, by the cat food.” And I am like WTF? Do I have gay written all over me?

As it turns out people do read us strangers and want to know where we stand in the big scheme of things and especially in matters of sexuality. Being a long established couple seems to be less threatening to them. However, I am also realistic and know that there are crazy people in the world. So, I remain vigilant but pretty cheerful in RL.

XBOX 360 and some snacks sounds good, too! LOL. Call of Duty has me as a sniper in Stalingrad and I am getting my ass kicked. :evilgrin:

[Chovexani]

32. Hee.

I got the new Prince of Persia game with a gift card yesterday. I find it's reaffirming my bisexuality.

"Wow, he's hot--OMG, she's hot--TAKE YOUR DAMN SHIRT OFF, PRINCE"

...yeah, I'm sad. :D

[bluedawg12]

33. They are beautiful graphics!

Enjoy!! :bounce:

:hi:

[yardwork]

30. Chovexani, I love you!

[DarkTirade]

15. I didn't really realize it until I was 19.

But in hindsight I totally had a crush on a friend of mine in high school. :P

[LostinVA]

17. Someone I worked with didn't know until she was 53 -- although the rest of us did

That includes her adult kids and ex husband.

I was in my late mid 20's before I came to complete grips with it and came out.

And, I tried to live life as a straight person as much as possible, because of the fear.

[Mike 03]

19. I wouldn't be surprised if this is not that odd.

But there was the most fascinating program this morning on "Doctor Radio" which is a channel on Satellite Radio, both XM and Sirius, that discussed this exact topic. "When did you realize what your sexual orientation was?"

It was so fascinating. People as young as six, according to this doctor, knew. I think I knew in Kindergarten that I was fascinated by girls, but I didn't know what that really meant until much later, like age ten.

But I've known people who were in their twenties and still struggling to figure out their sexuality. This is a crucial area that must be explored.

What a great topic.

And so important too. My ex-wife's best friend was a lesbian who committed suicide whe she was in her thirties, still strugging to figure out her sexual orientation.

[yardwork]

23. All my early crushes were on other girls and women, but it's easy for society to "explain" that.

It's easy for people to explain away little girls having close emotional relationships with other little girls, or little girls having great admiration and heroine worship for older girls, or little girls "loving" their female teachers. I experienced every single one of those, but they were all explained away by my parents and everyone else as normal and natural. In fact, it WAS normal and natural - I was queer!

I fell in love with my best friend when I was three and was distraught when my family moved away. I mourned for her for decades. If I had been a boy that attached to another boy, it might have raised eyebrows, but girls are "expected" to be emotional.

When I was about six I had a crush on an older girl that was totally obvious to everyone around me. I admired her so much I could barely speak in her presence. I talked about her endlessly. I tried to make myself look like her. I hung around her house hoping to get a glimpse of her. I hated her friends because I was jealous that they got to be with her but I couldn't because I was just a little kid. I treasured everything she gave me. My parents laughed and said that she was my "idol." If a young boy had expressed those feelings for an older boy people would have wondered, but girls are expected to be emotional.

I had physical relationships with girls as I entered adolescence, but that "didn't count." It's pretty amazing when I add up all the evidence and see how easily it was explained away - by me as well as everyone else.

[Mike 03]

26. But that is beautiful that you knew, and it is just sad that society didn't accept your feelings

as real.

What a beautiful person you are.

You were right all along. No matter what anyone thinks, science, common sense and your experience tell us all the truth.

Yardwork, if I could, I was hug you so hard.

[yardwork]

31. And I hug you right back, Mike 03! You are a beautiful soul.