I guess its time to leave DU for a while...

[AntiFascist]

I was making some (what I felt to be) important points regarding how Obama speaking out at the Saddleback debate affected GLBT freedom to marry in California, then the entire sub-thread got deleted for no good reasons that I could see. If DU will not allow me to express point-of-view on this subject, then I will have to find another forum.

[Sultana]

1. ...

Sorry about that :hug:

I hope you find what works for you, DU has been tense but don't give up.

[AntiFascist]

2. I won't give up...

but as I respond to the threads in GDP I have also been refining my arguments. I feel that these points need to be made, but if DU is going to censor them because they might be damaging to Obama's reputation, then I need to find someplace else to make them.

[saracat]

3. Please stay. You will be missed and the other voices will drown

out any opposition.

[AntiFascist]

5. Thanks saracat...

I will still check in to post on any threads that are in opposition to GLBT rights, including the right to marry. I think I'll return to DKOS as well to see how much criticism they will tolerate.

[auntsue]

6. I am new here

I have repub friends and family and i get so frustrated because they won't debate - just cut off what they don't agree with. I thought my new Dem friends here would be more - ah - democratic and open to discission but it puzzles me why some things get locked or removed and other hateful profanity filled diatribes do not? I am sincere - I am confused about this.

[Jamastiene]

11. New and old alike, I am confused about that very same thing too.

Welcome to DU. :hi: Many of the people here are good even if our overlords aren't exactly consistent in what they delete and what they let stay.

[virgogal]

18. You're not the only one that is confused. Me too !!!

[Starry Messenger]

4. I've been moving over to GD more.

GDP has gotten weird. I hope you won't go. I always look for your posts and consider them among the best at DU.

[AntiFascist]

8. Thanks MPK, your support of my alternative points of view...

motivates me to keep posting. GDP is challenging, but as I said it really has helped me to refine my argument opposing Prop. 8.

[Starry Messenger]

12. You've been doing a great job.

If you do move over to Kos to expand on this, let me know. I just registered over there a couple of weeks ago. I like to read both boards.

[Vanje]

27. Is Kos board as dismissive as Du

to GLBT concens?

[Starry Messenger]

29. Hi sheeptramp!

The conversations overall seem more focused and positive on the issues and concerns--it's a different format, so readers are encouraged to comment in diaries that interest them and stay out of things that don't interest them. There don't seem to be a lot of those really dismissive "why the hell are you talking about this" side conversations that are so disgusting and energy-sucking. I've only been reading a few things but so far so good. I'm not gay, so I couldn't be the best judge.

But here are some diaries that I'm reading that look really cool and totally on-point and respectful:

1) A review of "Milk"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/1/4/131150/6804/481/679886

2) A great article on Warren's ties to extremist churches

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/12/31/165531/87

Does that help?

[pinto]

7. Just a note - Individual posts are deleted for specific rule violations,

sub threads get removed for a number of reasons.

Usually they have so many deleted posts, they become unreadable, in context.

Sub threads that have become extremely inflammatory or hostile among members are removed.

Also, totally off-topic sub threads are removed.

And, as always, all moderator action is made by consensus of those on duty.

I'm not aware of the instance you note, nor would I speak of specifics, but these are some general outlines to why things happen here.

After moderating here through a number of years, I can say this, sincerely -

The moderators aren't looking to disallow anyone's point-of-view. We're looking to facilitate discussion here and maintain the guidelines we've all agreed to when registering as members.

Thanks.

[AntiFascist]

9. Hi Pinto...

:hi:

I can't figure out what was wrong with the sub-thread I was posting to...the sub-thread was not extremely inflammatory or hostile, nor was it off-topic. In fact, in my last post I came to an understanding of what was driving the poster I was arguing with. To summarize: he felt it was unfair to blame the black churches for Prop 8's outcome, and I was arguing that, I agreed this was unfair, and Obama's comments affected not only black churches, but also Warren's Southern Baptist Church and members of the Catholic Church.

[pinto]

14. Hi. The Administrators are your best sounding board for questions about moderator action.

You probably know that, but here's the link -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/contact.html

:hi:

[AntiFascist]

30. I just heard from Skinner...

he says that the deletion of this sub-thread was a 'glitch' and is not sure what caused it.

I think I've seen this before where entire threads or sub-threads suddenly disappear without a trace.

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

[yardwork]

15. I'd like to hear from that poster in my thread in GD-P.

[bluedawg12]

10. Don't leave! We need your voice.

We have to hang in there, even when it's up hill. Rest, take a breather and please come back.

peace-

dawggy :hi:

[AntiFascist]

17. Thanks bluedawg12!

ok, I'll just take a breather then. (my SO is also upset because I'm so obsessed with this.) Even if there are just a few of us, we need to keep fighting.

[bluedawg12]

19. That's the ticket!

I can understand, it is a balancing act, keeping our SO's up to date but not overwhelmed as we find ourselves immersed in these issues.

The more we learn, the more unjust it reveals itself to be. I have to make sure I check in with the family and get off the forum for some RL, or this can become engulfing.

Enjoy Sunday and do what you feel is good and healthy and fun, then, come back refreshed!!!

:hug:

[mitchtv]

23. yeah stick around I'd miss your posts, too

I stick mainly to this forum as I have little appetite for they STFU forums. I just don't got it anymore

[Jamastiene]

13. Don't leave.

Maybe try to re-frame the argument and refine it even more. That's all I can suggest. It's what I am trying to learn how to do, except when my head hits the ceiling when I read something. Then, I just go off. I'm working on that though.

[AntiFascist]

20. Thanks Jamastiene and yardwork....

I find your posts incredibly valuable, and I don't want to ditch my friends. I'll see I can push the envelope more skillfully in the future.

[yardwork]

16. Please don't leave.

I was very happy to see a nasty post calling gay folks "vipers" deleted in GD-P today. Unfortunately, it took a whole subthread with it. I don't think it is the subthread you were on, but it could have been. The post creating the subthread called us "vipers" so when that post went, the subthread went.

Thank you mods!

[Lex]

25. Yes---it's happened SEVERAL TIMES lately--the whole subthread is deleted.

In that case the poster was calling gay folks "vipers" and "fringe types." All the replies, in absolute compliance with the rules, were killed too.

[JohnnieGordon]

21. Let us know if you do find another forum

Enforced allegiance to Obama might've been acceptable during the fall campaign, but now that he's safely in office, DU shouldn't be the considered the Barack Obama fan club. They have forums for that, Change.gov for instance, which despicably allows some quite nasty homophobic posts in their Rick Warren threads. Gays are the enemy there, they've found fault with the Messiah, and that isn't allowed.

The mods here better come to terms with the fact that a lot of us supported Obama only as a lesser evil. Let them enforce their allegiance when he runs again in '12. Until then, he should be fair game.

[QC]

24. Yes, please let us know if you find a genuinely progressive forum out there. n/t

[AntiFascist]

28. Thanks JohnnieGordon and QC...

I have to say that I do appreciate the opportunities on DU to be able to criticize Obama, in some cases rather harshly. What I do not appreciate at all, and what sparked this thread, is having thoughtful posts deleted for no good reason. I attempted to contact admin, as suggested by Pinto, and have not received any responses back as to why the subthread in question got deleted.

[donco6]

22. Please don't.

There are so few rational voices left. We really need every one.

[Lex]

26. I hope you don't leave. It has happened to me several times lately.

It's very frustrating to have perfectly good posts flushed down the toilet just the same as the name-calling posts by those threatened by the push for gay marriage.