So, now Obama has invited some "real live gays" . . .

[donco6]

. . . I guess we have to say everything's hunky-dory, right?

I mean, how inclusive does he have to BE? To even invite GAY PEOPLE! Wow. That's really going beyond the call of duty. We should be extremely grateful.

[Chulanowa]

1. Just a question

When did DU's GLBT forum transform into a "Fuck Obama he can go to hell" forum? I mean I understand being pissed, but goddamn, aren't there any actual issues?

[jackpan1260]

3. I wish I could recommend your post.

Thanks!

[donco6]

4. Since the real issue of Warren.

Sorry if it's not "real" enough for you.

"But since the Warren inauguration controversy erupted, the nature of work against AIDS in Africa has gone unexamined. Warren has not been particularly forthcoming to those who have attempted to look into it. His website contains scant information about the results of his program. However, an investigation into Warren's involvement in Africa reveals a web of alliances with right-wing clergymen who have sidelined science-based approaches to combating AIDS in favor of abstinence-only education...Warren's man in Uganda is a charismatic pastor named Martin Ssempa. The head of the Makerere Community Church, a rapidly growing congregation, Ssempe enjoys close ties to his country's First Lady, Janet Museveni, and is a favorite of the Bush White House. In the capitol of Kampala, Ssempa is known for his boisterous crusading. Ssempa's stunts have included burning condoms in the name of Jesus and arranging the publication of names of homosexuals in cooperative local newspapers while lobbying for criminal penalties to imprison them."

"With safe sex advocates on the run, Warren and Ssempa trained their sights on another social evil. In August 2007, Ssempa led hundreds of his followers through the streets of Kampala to demand that the government mete out harsh punishments against gays. 'Arrest all homos,' read placards. And: 'A man cannot marry a man.' Ssempa continued his crusade online, publishing the names of Ugandan gay rights activists on a website he created, along with photos and home addresses. 'Homosexual promoters,' he called them, suggesting they intended to seduce Uganda's children into their lifestyle. Soon afterwards, two of President Yoweri Museveni's top officials demanded the arrest of the gay activists named by Ssempa. Terrified, the activists immediately into hiding."

That's who's sharing the stage.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[donco6]

36. Yeah, I guess we've all become Freepers over the many years.

Or perhaps people such as yourself are finally realizing that teh gay just aren't going to lie still while the bus runs over us yet again.

I gave a lot of money to Obama - well over $2,000. I'm fine with that - he was certainly better than the alternative. And he said lots and lots of fine things in his campaigns. I was so intensely excited on the night of the Convention at the speech - I literally cried.

And then he was elected. Very exciting, too. Cried again.

And THEN came Proposition 8 and the Warren invitation close behind. And all the outrage expressed here, and the outrage expressed against the outrage. Which just made the outrage worse.

AND THEN we find out more and more about Warren, and still people tell us, "It's just not that big a deal - oh LOOKY! He's got some gays on stage! Say it's all better . . . SAY IT!!!!"

No, I'm not going to say it, because it's NOT all better. And you can call me a Freeper all you like.

[Chulanowa]

65. Oh, don't give me that bullshit

"Or perhaps people such as yourself are finally realizing that teh gay just aren't going to lie still while the bus runs over us yet again."

"People such as myself" have been standing in solidarity with the GLBT community for years. "People such as myself" have shed their own fucking blood to keep a gay man from being the one taking the hits. "People such as myself" have dumped their wallets into groups opposed to Proposition 8 and other groups and measures for the benefit of the gay community. "People such as myself" have been there to help friends and family deal with the realization of their sexuality and lend a supportive shoulder when they decide to come out about it.

You want to make up some more shit about people like myself, donco? Feel free, it's not going to stop me from supporting the gay community to the best of my means and ability. So please, do continue. Just be sure to qualify all your bullshit as being based entirely off the fact that I don't share your opinion that Obama deserves all the crap being thrown at him from this forum.

Want to slap him around for Warren? By all means, just be sure to warm up a bit so you don't sprain something. I'm just saying that so much of the other stuff going on here is grade-A manure. If you want to translate that into me being some sort of homophobe, so be it. Whatever brings you comfort.

[donco6]

66. Well, when you say:

"Am I out of line for wondering why this section of DU reminds me so damn much of FreeRepublic these days? I mean hey, criticism is one thing, but there's a definite "Woooooah, what the hell's going on here?" vibe around these parts."

What the hell did you think would happen?

[Chulanowa]

68. Ah, I see...

So you think that my bewilderment at seeing so many threads and posts containing knee-jerk senseless hate (Seriously, Obama's tax plan proves he hates gays? Two men in DC were stalked and beaten by Democratic partisans?) gives you free reign to accuse me of wanting to see gays thrown under the bus.

Well, like I said, whatever gives you comfort.

[DS1]

13. Gay rights/Marriage is an actual issue, since you framed it that way

Rick Warren giving the whatever speech is a slap in the face to them, and they are rightfully angry for reasons I will lay out.

Rick Warren called them something lower than pedophiles, and says he'll never take that back, so why should the GBLT community embrace him? Reaching across party lines, and acceptance works both ways. With Rick Warren, it does not. Yet, for some odd reason, it should work one way regarding the GBLT community embracing him.

How does that work? Warren = a giant permanent middle finger to you, and you = "oh, okay, you really didn't mean it, perhaps we can talk at a later date".

Does not compute.

(I've avoided this discussion for a long time, but this is it, right?)

[bicentennial_baby]

24. ...

<3 you...

[Chulanowa]

27. I understand all that

And if the anger being directed at Obama were tied to his choice of Warren, I wouldn't bat an eyelash. But it looks to me like most of it is hating Obama simply on the principle of the matter, even to the point of completely making shit up as well as attacking him when he makes an effort towards a positive move.

Basically, he is incapable of doing any right even if he puts forth the effort to do so. Doesn't strike me as especially sensible, is all.

[DS1]

28. Of course he's capable of doing things right

You're the one making the leap of one thing = all things. This, however, does not negate the fact that choosing Rick Warren as a speaker during his inauguration (where Obama is sworn in as the President of all of us) is an insult to a good majority of the people whom voted for him.

In this case, the wrong thing is being done. I'm so non-religious I can't even name the speech he's going to give, and it doesn't bother me (much) that a bible thumper is giving some sort of speech. But if said bible thumper had repeatedly gone out of his way to suggest that people who are so non-religious that they can't even name the speech he's giving are worse than pedophiles, then damn right I'd be pissed.


Clear it up?

[Chulanowa]

30. I think you're in need of some clearing up

Please note my response to donco6, above.

I'm not going to waste my time explaining that I understand why people are pissed at Warren a third time if you can't be bothjered to note it the first two.

[donco6]

79. Then by all means, go.

I'd hate to think we're putting you out and all.

[silverojo]

31. Nobody's saying our community should embrace Warren

Just that we should put this into perspective: Warren's presence at the inauguration WILL NOT stop gay marriage from becoming a reality.

As for feeling insulted? Well, hell, being a believer in the separation of church and state, I'm fucking insulted that ANY Christian has ANY connections to ANY president. As far as I can see, most of the ills of our society have been caused by religious fanatics like Christians, Muslims, etc.

Does that mean I'm going to trash every president ever, without giving him (or, someday, him/her) a chance?

Hell, no! Give Obama a chance to DO something before throwing him under the bus.

[donco6]

37. No, the perspective SHOULD be:

Our president-elect is sharing the stage with a man who encourages the jailing and persecution of gays in Africa.

[Critters2]

53. It's an endorsement of Warren, a man who worked long and hard

to outlaw marriage equality. Obama has embraced him. After the GLBTQ community worked hard to get Obama elected. Of course people are angry!

[Creideiki]

74. Put into perspective

Obama being President will not stop gay marriage from becoming a reality. Eventually the courts will force it down his heterosexist throat or Congress will grew a spine and do something progressive (nah, I don't really believe that either--maybe the courts, though, in spite of Barry's best efforts to enforce his religious beliefs).

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

35. Yeah, that's it

You got it right.

[LostinVA]

41. Thank you

[Maven]

51. Perfect explanation.

Thank you.

:thumbsup:

[AntiFascist]

77. Because we're all supposed to be perfect Christians and turn the other cheek...

hey wait a minute, when did this become a theocracy?

[xchrom]

38. educate yourself -- go and see how many laws there are

concerning marriage at the federal level.

and then remember obama opposes marriage equality for lgbtiq people.

and in spite of that he still enjoyed the benefits of our donations -- in amounts greater than what we donated to kerry -- has used several venomous anti-gay people to help him -- and enjoyed our votes in both the primaries and the general election.

he has moved DADT to the back burner now -- as well as pushed for anti-gay time kaine to head the DNC -- worked to have references to about lgbtiq people from the democratic platform and replaced it with the generic families.

you have a lot of fuckin nerve to ask us about 'real' issues to be concerned about --

[Tangerine LaBamba]

2. So,

no matter what he does from now on, Obama will be mocked by you, is that it? I thought his invitation to that couple was a lovely move, done without fanfare, just doing it because it is the right thing to do.

It's gotten very little publicity, which surprises me. And this is how change takes place....................

[donco6]

5. As long as he's sharing the stage with a man who facilitates imprisonment

for gays and lesbians, yes.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

7. Well,

I hope things happen that can open your mind and make you happy.

[donco6]

9. Oh it's plenty open.

Just not happy. Not one bit. And that's as it should be.

[Creideiki]

17. At least 2010 until the easiest thing--pushing for repeal of DADT

And then only if the White House actively pushes for it. Just signing it should Congress put it in front of him is a half-move. Everything else we've already been told to expect somewhere about half-past never.

I do have to say that I believe that the tied is moving against those (not accusing you personally, of course) that are heterosexist and in favor of those of us that are for equality of all Americans, regardless of race, religion, sex, gender or sexual orientation. While that tide fully shifts, however, I'm not of a mind to stand idly by while someone chooses to discriminate against other Americans.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

20. I think so, too

Just the other day, watching "House," there was a scene with two women making out. It wasn't until a few minutes later that it hit me that it has become absolutely acceptable to show a woman kissing another woman, a man kissing a man. On network TV, no less. Fox network, in fact.

(The most recent "House" showed one of the lesbians passionately kissing :::: gasp! :::: a BLACK MAN! The girl's clearly a tramp.)

I think changes will come incrementally and faster than I expect, until, like my delayed reaction to the lesbian scene in "House," it's just a fact of everyday life.

We all deserve equal rights, and, as a woman who'd never have been admitted to law school a couple of thousand years ago if not for Affirmative Action, I stand with my gay brothers and sisters.

[Creideiki]

22. If a "lesbian" is kissing a man, she's really not a lesbian

That's what the "B" is.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

46. It's a TV show

It's imaginary. Not real.

Get it?

[Creideiki]

75. First, we were just discussing bisexual visibility on tv.

Some of us are at the Synthesis level of Bloom's Taxonomy. I understand some are still struggling with Comprehension; I feel sorry for them.

Still, these things do matter. It reminds me of Alex Mapa in one of his stand up routines mocking someone who cast an African American as an Asian woman. Then kept going on about how ridiculous it was when the actress cast couldn't maintain the accent--sort of like how Kevin Costner couldn't maintain a British accent as Robin Hood.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

34. She wasn't a lesbian kissing a black man; she was a bisexual character kissing a black man

[Tangerine LaBamba]

47. Yeah, and

she was also a fictional creature, one that doesn't really exist.

[LostinVA]

43. Lesbians don't make out with men except in straight guys' porn

That character isn't a lesbian. I watch the show.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

48. That character is

whatever the writers decide she is. It's the folks here who took the time to focus on a facet of my post that was incidental to the larger intent and had to let me know that they saw it differently.

I still say she's a lesbian character, but the point to remember is that it's just a TV show.

Nit-picking sometimes leads to missing the greater issue.

But, man, this was funny.......................

[LostinVA]

49. The character is bisexial -- I watch the show

And, YOU are teh one who said a lesbian was making out with a black man. Lesbians don't make out with men, bisexual women do.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

52. Until she started making out with the man,

she was a lesbian.

After that, she was bisexual.

See?

[LostinVA]

55. No, she's bisexual

[Tangerine LaBamba]

60. She is now

On the show, the only sexual experience she had was with a woman.

Now, she's making out with a man.

You say she's bisexual, and I agree - but before she landed on Foreman, she was portrayed as a lesbian.

Let's not forget - she's imaginary.

[Solon]

56. Uhm, you have no clue how the fuck sexuality works, do you?

It has nothing to do with acts, that woman was ALWAYS bi-sexual, she's attracted to both sexes, and being with either a woman or a man doesn't make her lesbian or bi, it who she's attracted to that makes her bi. A lesbian wouldn't make out with a man because she wouldn't be attracted to him in the first place, is that understood, or do you want to make a complete idiot out of yourself?

[LostinVA]

57. Thanks -- I didn't have the patience to write that out

UGH.

[Solon]

58. No problem, I hate it when people confuse acts with sexual attraction...

Its not like every closeted GLBT person wasn't a GLBT person until after they left the closet, after all. I can't say I'm not surprised that such ignorance still exists, but I don't have the patience for it either. Hence my liberal use of inflammatory language. :)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

63. And you do understand now, don't you,

that a fictional character is not bound by any rules of "real life"?

Bet you can't grasp that one, can you?

Lack of imagination does seem to define some folks here.

It's hughly entertaining. Thank you for the laughs.

[Solon]

64. You do also realize that she was revealed to be BISEXUAL before she kissed a man?

Right?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

62. My goodness.........

I should write to the staff at "House" and tell them that there are people watching the show who actually think their characters are real people.

Your perspective is narrow and very entertaining.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

61. Uh.....

I know what I know and you have no clue as to who or what I am or what I know.

You do realize, don't you, that we're talking about a fictional character, one who only exists on a screen, and not a real person? I daresay the writers portrayed 13 as a lesbian just to incite House, who has risen beautifully to the bait. Now, they throw in a make-out scene with Foreman, which just makes the show more interesting. You do seem to have some hard and fast rules for lesbians. Did it ever occur to you that someone could suddenly find him- or herself attracted to someone not at all within their purview?

You do seem to be viewing a TV show as if it is reality. As a former TV writer, that cheers me. We always sought to suck the people in and facilitate the willing suspension of disbelief. Seems like the "House" writers have succeeded with you.

Calling me names probably makes you feel better. I understand. I'm all for people feeling good. I hope it helps you.

[Chovexani]

76. As a real, life actual bisexual woman

Attitudes and asinine assumptions from simple ass idiots like you are something I have to deal with on a daily basis.

I'm really fucking glad you don't write for TV anymore. If you are any indicator, it's no wonder bisexuals are so fucking invisible on mainstream tv.

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

42. Especially since a supermajority of Americans are for repealing it

And ENDA.

[MNBrewer]

10. speak of the devil.

[Libertyfirst]

45. But with enough fanfare to make the media. n/t

[bluestateguy]

6. You know you're right. We should have just elected McCain/Palin

Thank you for helping me realize how much better off we would have been if McCain was the President-elect.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

8. You're mocking,

aren't you?

Right?

[donco6]

11. And I'll admit my OP was full-on mockery as well.

But I just got so pissed at a GD/P thread talking about how "now that Obama's invited this lesbian couple, I'm sure we'll see all those people who were whining about Warren come back and be happy now" (or to that effect anyway).

Uh - NO! For one thing, gays are people just like the rest of the people who are going to be on stage with him. To be excited that they're invited is ridiculous. Of course they should be invited. And second, it doesn't and cannot be seen as "balancing out" Warren and his actions. If that's the point, then it's an insult. I hope it isn't.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

16. It never occurred to me

that it was any kind of "balancing" invitation. I saw it, rather, as a first shot in what I honestly believe will be a barrage of pro-gay acts coming out of the White House when it's ours again. I think Obama is smart enough to do things quietly, just get them done, without a lot of drama. I'd like to see him start with getting rid of that bullshit "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" crap.

What I bet on is his smarts. He's always three steps ahead of everyone, and I have no reason to think that the gay issue - and it's a multi-faceted one - is any different. While I abhor the idea that that fat fuck Warren is now going to be in all the history books, I also understand that Obama threw his supporters a fish with no meat on its body - it's a gesture without substance, and it will keep the rightwingnut fundie fucks off his back for a while. I saw it, finally, as a smart move.

It's about patience, but you want it right now, and I understand.

Still, he's so much better than anyone else who might have been entering the Presidency now. And, as for that thread you mentioned, ah, there are simplistic assholes everywhere, even on our side - don't let them get to you.

I wish you luck.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

21. Tangy, m'dear...

If Warren makes it into any history books, I guaren-damn-tee you that his name will be mispelled in over 55% of the cases and he might, just might, not make it into most of the footnotes.

A Man for All Seasons he is not.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

81. Wouldn't that be nice?

One can hope. His fat image might also be blurred, or, if my suspicions about Warren are correct, his image cannot be captured on film. He also casts no image in a mirror.

A Man For The Four Seasons All-You-Can-Eat Buffet he is, though.

[Cronus Protagonist]

12. So what could he do that would get you off your soapbox?

Serious question.

[MNBrewer]

14. No that's not a serious question.

The question is meant to belittle the OP.

[Cronus Protagonist]

25. Listen here pal

In this instance, you are wrong. Ergo, you are a terrible mind reader, and lack comprehension skills. I feel sorry for you.

[donco6]

15. Get rid of the homophobe.

Pretty simple.

[Creideiki]

18. That would be easiest, but unlikely

Then again, which homophobe?

[donco6]

19. ~wry grin~

You've got a point.

Gotta get some sleep. Thanks.

[Cronus Protagonist]

26. Sounds like a good idea

I think if he can't or won't do that, he could mention his commitment to equality and gay rights in his speech on inauguration day, right in front of the fucker.

[Creideiki]

29. He's made mention, even about being a "fierce" supporter

But somehow that fierceness doesn't translate to the real world. A bit of a paper tiger is our Barry.

[JohnnieGordon]

32. He's got to stop patting himself on the back for simply saying the word "gay" in a speech

The few times he's responded to criticism about McClurkin or the like, he's touted that he mentions gays in speeches. He touted that he mentioned gays in his 2004 Dem convention speech. All he said is "we have gay friends in red states" or something like that. And he acts like he deserves a medal for it, for uttering the word gay.

[Cronus Protagonist]

50. Yeah, it does appear his Barack is worse than his bite

:)

[CreekDog]

59. you lost me when you called him "Barry"

saw too many crazy people calling him Barry last spring.

[dsc]

33. If it is a serious question, here is my serious answer

He could end the FDA ban on gays donating blood, which is out dated and replace it with testing and questions about recent sexual conduct.

He could use his SOTU to lobby for one of the gay big three (ENDA, hate crimes, DADT) and push to have it passed by May 1.

[donco6]

39. Even if he did just the latter, I'd put the soapbox away.

For now.

[mitchtv]

69. Personally , I think the Kaine Appt. is much worse

than tricky Ricky I expect nothing from Obama, but I didn't expect to backslide. And I am not interested in the opinions of Strates who tell me equal rights is not high on their personal agenda last night, singing a different tune today. Obama has a lot of work to do to even appproach a kind word from me, much less another donation

[donco6]

70. I've already sworn off donations.

To anyone, for any office, ever again.

I've been burned too many times.

[Cronus Protagonist]

71. Interesttng choices there...

AFAIK, the FDA bans men who have sex with men, not only gays, by the way, and I'm all for lifting that ban either way because no one knows if they do not have HIV for certain, ever, even if tested the day before, and they ought to test ALL donated blood for HIV either way and inform the donor when found.

I'm totally FOR ENDA, which would be huge, so I'm with you on that one. I'm not a supporter of "hate" crime legislation and I'm afraid I don't know off the top of my head what DADT is.

So yeah, I think if he speechifies about passing ENDA during the ceremony with Warren sitting right there, I'll take my hat off to him. I'd prefer, myself, if he talks about removing the government out of the marriage business by calling for all references in Federal Law that mentions the word "marriage" be amended to say "Civil Union" and to open this up to all people without exception.

It would be fun to watch the bigot squirm at THAT on the national stage.

[dsc]

72. actually I was aiming for State of the Union

those his Inagural would be even better. DADT is Don't Ask Don't Tell which I would like to see ended. I put the FDA ban in there because blood is indeed tested and because he can do it by himself as it is an executive regulation.

[Critters2]

54. Rescind the invitation. nt

[LostinVA]

40. Know what?

That's already the meme on here. I lietrally JUST read a post saying that before I came over here.

[donco6]

44. I was up late last night and read several.

From the usual suspects.

Made me want to barf.

[IndianaGreen]

67. Some of Obama's best friends are gay, don't you know!

Even Rick Warren and Sarah Palin have said the same thing.

[ruggerson]

73. The only people who are saying this somehow mitigates the Warren fiasco

are those who don't think the Warren pick was a big deal in the first place.

Obama insulted gays and lesbians big time with the Warren invitation - a hug, unconscionable slap in the face to a constituency that overwhelmingly supported him in the election.

He also happened to have done the right thing by inviting this lesbian couple aboard his tour that highlights the American families that are riding with him. It's a good, symbolic gesture.

In no way does it make the Warren situation right, but, in my book, it's ok to give a politician credit where it is due, even when you're alienated and disappointed with him.

I realize some may disagree with me.

[rusty fender]

78. No! No! No! You've got it all WRONG!!

The lesbian couple is for entertainment purposes only.

[QC]

82. I've heard he's going to let Mr. Steve do Michelle's hair one day!

Progress!