A totally serious question

[Chovexani]

I had a totally weird thought while catching up on this Gene Robinson drama. What is it with gay men and choirs? Like, I don't ever see lesbian choirs. Okay maybe a women's chorus here and there. SF has that awesome T choir. But like, every city has at least one gay men's choir. Some cities have more than one, and I would have to assume they rumble in the streets like in West Side Story, wielding binders of sheet music and hurling snazzy bow ties at each other.

But seriously, what's up with that? Is it the fabulous robes? The glamorous life of performing in community centers for vegan dinners? The orchestra groupies?

:D

(I'm sick and high on NyQuil, please don't let me post anymore)

[murielm99]

1. I don't know.

I'm not a gay man, either. But I sure appreciate the music of some of those choirs. :thumbsup:

(This is a serious response, too).

[Behind the Aegis]

2. Well, why aren't there gay male PE Teachers unions?

:)

J/K (I don't know such a thing exists.)

Personally, I think it is because it is related to misogyny, in some respects. The idea of men singing (especially in groups), unless it is hardcore rock or some sappy love song, it (music) is seen as a "female thing." There are, of course, examples of non-gay male singing groups, but the ones today are usually bands. I also think it has something to do with being in a group, doing something one loves (singing), and not having to worry about justifying another part of yourself (being gay).

[Chovexani]

3. I swear I saw one of those "unions" in a movie once

:hide: :yoiks:

[Behind the Aegis]

4. Why are you watching "gay male" porn?

LOL!

[Chovexani]

5. Who said it was porn?!

It was, like, this documentary about college...lots of footage with the wrestling team.

DON'T LOOK AT ME LIKE THAT

[Behind the Aegis]

6. I love those type of "documentaries!"

Name?

If I am looking you at in a particular way, it is with my tongue wagging wondering why I don't know where this "documentary" is!

LOL!

[Ms. Toad]

12. Umm...barbershop quartets

(or larger)? The ones I'm familiar with are almost exclusively straight - and most exclude women.

[Bear down under]

7. The all-male choir has a very long tradition in music

So it's not a big step to the all-gay male choir.

All-women choirs have always been much less common, partly because of the ancient prohibition in both the Eastern and Western Churches of women singers in church (too sexy!) and also for purely musical reasons -- male voices come in the full range of sound from bass through tenor and alto (counter-tenor) to soprano (boy soprano and adult high-contre), while female voices are limited to the upper ranges: soprano, alto, contralto.

That doesn't mean that a women's choir can't sound extremely beautiful; but as the bass is the foundation of musical harmony, a men's choir has a greater range of musical expression available and consequently a much wider repertoire.

[Zuiderelle]

8. Yes. This is the answer.

[Ms. Toad]

13. and tenor, which I sing.

>>female voices are limited to the upper ranges: soprano, alto, contralto<<

I have to admit, I haven't met any female bass voices - but Ysaye Barnwell from Sweet Honey in the Rock has an amazingly deep female voice.

[Fran Kubelik]

18. I love Ysaye!

:thumbsup:

[Chovexani]

27. I never thought about the range thing before

That's a good point.

When I sang I had a pretty weird range for a woman and in the choirs I sang in, I was pretty much stuck wherever they needed a balance.

I miss it, it was a lot of fun.

[dsc]

9. You got a good musical answer down thread

I do know some places have converted gay men's choruses to gay men and lesbian choruses.

[sui generis]

10. Well . . . .

Men like men's voices.

Men's voices making music is amazing, but when you are a part of it your voice is amplified, enriched, expanded into something bigger than a single voice, and, it is temporal. You breathe together, listen to subtle cues in each other, follow a conductor who cues you like an instrument, and let your voice be an instrument of your skill and heart and passion.

Do women like women's voices? ;)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. yes, i cant stand male voices generally, unless its showtunes or very old stuff

male rockers make me want to punch them

my ipod is 98% female

[sui generis]

17. I like it all

I am bi-musical. :P

One of my favorite pieces is the Faure Requiem - male and female chorus and solos. When I get past the fact that they're singing a formal mass, the voices are like humanity, the sound of the better angels of our nature.

So who is the other 2%? ;)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. showtunes (both bollywood and broadway), elvis (yes, i know...)

40-50's blues & country (past the 50's i cant stand male voices)...& very early rock n' roll..

arabic music

[sui generis]

23. hey I saw saawariya

it was dull as an old spork but there were some absolutely beautiful numbers in there.

I really like bollywood too - and arabic music and any kind of raq or raga. makes me want to shake my moneymaker and do some primal worthy-mate dance. Oh and have I got an earth-witch flamenco goddess for you!

I need to pop open my itunes at home & pm you some fun titles later.

[Chovexani]

28. I am the same way

I like how they blend, you know? That's not to say single gender choirs are lousy, just that they have their own kind of beauty.

The thing I don't like about classical singing nowadays is how everything has been dumbed down so that all the "boring" bits of the work are excised and nothing's left except for soaring arias. Like that glorified boy band Il Devo. Complex music just doesn't sell pledge drive memberships on PBS, I guess. :(

[bigwillq]

25. Why?

:shrug:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

26. i think post 60's male rockers got too noisy and loud for me...

[bigwillq]

29. Ok.

Welcome back! :hi:

[Zuiderelle]

24. I prefer female voices. Rich/lower female voices more than high/light ones.

I really don't like most tenors, some baritones and basses are ok, but yeah, maybe it is a male/male female/female preference. I'd like to see a study on that.

[HamdenRice]

11. You might want to look at this book by an old long lost friend of mine

It was somewhat strange finding out about this. The author was my best friend roughly from 2nd grade through junior high school, and then one of my good friends in high school.

We went to different colleges, but stayed in touch, and then I lost touch with him around graduate school.

A random googling one day a few years ago turned up that he had left law to go back to grad school and became an English professor where he is a leading scholar of queer literary theory, especially the intersection of literature, classical music and homoerotics. Kopelson focuses on piano playing ("pianism") but also includes musical "amateurism" which encompasses most gay male choirs. He claims there is a theoretical connection that explains what you have noted:


http://www.amazon.com/Beethovens-Kiss-Pianism-Perversion-Mastery/dp/0804725977/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232377410&sr=1-4

Beethoven's Kiss: Pianism, Perversion, and the Mastery of Desire (Hardcover)

by Kevin Kopelson (Author)

Editorial Reviews

Review

“Beethoven’s Kiss is a beguiling, insightful, sometimes funny, sometimes moving study. The book is put together performatively, as a memoir-meditation, rather than a piece of traditional scholarship. But its tacit scholarly backing is solid and up to date, and its unorthodox form is under the control of a finely tuned prose style.”—Lawrence Kramer,
Fordham University


Product Description

A vivid (and startling) example of the “new musicology,” this book is an interdisciplinary study of romantic pianism in relation to gender and sexuality. Discussing erotic anxieties of musical amateurs, sexual myths concerning child prodigies, prurient interests in virtuosos, castrating figurations of “maiden” piano teachers, and the phenomenon of Liberace, the author underscores the extent to which the piano resonates with homosexuality and mortality.

[xchrom]

14. i believe there are lesbian choirs.

in june -- usually during lgbtiq month -- your pbs station will probably run
a --documentary? -- on lgbtiq choirs from around the country and the world.

and there are several lesbian choirs and womens choirs.

[DarkTirade]

15. Don't look at me, I'm a musician but I'm not much of a performer.

I'm a enigma, I s'pose. :P

[donco6]

20. I am so not touching this one. n/t

[Creideiki]

21. I've performed with an LGBT mixed choir in Chicago

I'm sure if you want to find a mixed choir in New York, you could find one.

[Politicub]

22. Atlanta has the awesomely named Feminist Women's Chorus

But it's probably the exception rather than the rule.