Obama PUNTS on Don't Ask, Don't Tell - Says it needs more study

[Ioo]

Bus, meet the gays, gays, this is bus, you will be tossed under it.

http://www.palmcenter.org/press/dadt/releases/Marine+General+Questions+Obama+Plan

SANTA BARBARA, CA, February 3, 2009 – A retired Brigadier General for the U.S. Marine Corps has questioned the Obama administration’s plan to form a Pentagon commission to study “don’t ask, don’t tell.” “There's been enough studying throughout the years,” said General Hugh Aitken. “Creating a new study will not change the facts.”

Aitken participated in a comprehensive 2008 review of the policy which found that there is no evidence showing that openly gay service would harm the military, and a great deal of evidence showing it would not.

According to a February 1st Boston Globe report, the Obama administration has decided not to move forward on repealing “don’t ask, don’t tell” until the Pentagon can “undertake a detailed study of how a change in the policy would affect the military.” This may not happen for several months or longer, says the Globe article.

[xchrom]

1. but we were told -- by duers --

that it was going happen right away.

this after reports had come out that it wouldn't happen until 2010 at the earliest.

[MNDemNY]

3. And so it goes...............

I, for one, am not the least bit surprised.

[Ioo]

4. Agreed - I have said all along that Obama giving lipservice to us.

Sorry, but I do not think he will do shit for us. He used us.. he is not a friend to our cause.

[MNDemNY]

6. It appears the "lip service" was given to all progressives.

This appease the republofucks is nauseating.

[xchrom]

5. indeed -- not surprised. at all. nt

[Chulanowa]

34. And I was one of them

My apologies. I'd hoped our new president migth actually hold fast to such an integral promise, but, it looks as if I'd dialed my hope to 11 on a speaker that only goes to 8.

[Sub Atomic]

48. But we all have to jump on the bandwagon!!

[Bladecollector]

55. It's about votes

The LGBT vote just can't match the "christian vote"...and supporting the end of DADT would cost votes. Basicly it's going to take someone who doesn't care if they get relected or not. Democrat and progressive are not one in the same, and there are a lot of Democrat voting "christians" out there. My brother is a prime example...he voted for Pres. Obama but also sent money in support of Prop 8 as well.

[rocktivity]

2. No, Obama should do his "own" study.

That makes him responsible either way--which is more than any other president has done.

:headbang:
rocknation

[TechBear_Seattle]

7. Color me a deep shade of "unsurprised" n/t

[Pab Sungenis]

8. Once again, we are disposable.

[Not Me]

9. I expected this all along. What I didn't expect was

how far right he is turning. The man won with a landslide from voters who wanted change. He is forgotten that message. I fear he may be a one-term president.

[TechBear_Seattle]

10. Maybe we can elect a REAL progressive in 2012

I'm not holding my breath, though: Obama seems to be as progressive as the Democratic Party can manage.

[Two Americas]

24. oh, no

Please don't say that TechBear_Seattle. Obama is as "progressive" - not at all really - as a very small but domineering minority within the party (who are politically to the right of the general public) will permit; without a fight, that is.

Please don't buy into their bullshit arguments about what is and isn't possible, and what is and isn't inevitable.

[The Brethren]

46. And what got me is how fast he's moving.

Obama didn't waste a moment by inviting Warren to his first day on the job and now this.

[theHandpuppet]

11. Sur-prise, sur-prise, sur-prise!

Not!

I hope someone posts this article to the GDP forum.

[Dhalgren]

12. I am not surprised, at all.

1)He is anti-gay because of his religion (he said as much very early-on in the primaries, last year). 2)He has never felt he really needed the GLBT support, anyway.
3)He has never really viewed GLBT issues as "civil rights" issues, per se.
4)He is not a progressive and never has been; at best he is a Liberal (and not very).


GLBT issues are civil rights issues - no more back of the bus! (Or under the bus, either!)


In my view Obama doesn't care very much about civil rights, which is kind of ironic...

[Two Americas]

23. key point there

"He has never really viewed GLBT issues as civil rights issues."

Obama, and most liberals, see GLBT issues as a question of "giving" something - described as "what they want" - to one among many groups - granting "them" some favors. They want to portray this position as some sort of middle ground, somewhere between outright bigotry and full equality. That is a lie. "Between" is what the bigots seek, and promoting "between" is promoting bigotry.

People who do not see GLBT issues as civil rights issues do not support gay rights at all. They then seek ways to appear that they do, while they actually do not.

These two positions are not kinda sorta the same thing, as so many here would have us believe, they are polar opposites:

"We are going to stop the persecution, abuse and discrimination against people, starting right now."

"Don't worry, we will get around eventually to giving you what you want. We are on your side, really."

[Dhalgren]

38. I agree with you fully.

Full civil rights cannot be compromised because of the bigotry of certain other citizens. No excuses, no compromise, no waiting, no appeasement, no more.

This is something that cannot be debated or "people with good hearts can disagree on" - hell no! Full and complete equal, civil rights now - not tomorrow, not some day, but now. It seems simple enough. Anyone who does not believe that GLBT citizens deserve full civil rights is, by definition, a bigot - and why would we give bigots any credence, at all?

[The Brethren]

47. Very ironic!

[Zuiderelle]

13. Oh yeah, that's a good use of money, time and resources.

Jesus, really, wtf? Study what exactly? Study how discrimination benefits or doesn't benefit the military? Discrimination is a black and white issue. It simply doesn't belong.

[bluedawg12]

15. Exactamundo!

Study = Stall.

[BrightKnight]

33. DADT is a waste of money, time and resources.

I doubt that there are many in the military leadership that give a damn about fighting culture wars.

[Zuiderelle]

36. We agree on everything except the term "culture wars." This is about civil rights, not culture.

[bluedawg12]

14. "December 2008 poll showing 81 percent public approval for open gay service,"

Expert agree it is harmful NOT having gays in the military.

Could it be the top brass that boot dragging?

[closeupready]

16. Not a surprise, but confirms that if we want anything done, we'll have to drag people kicking

and screaming all the way.

[TechBear_Seattle]

18. And all the while be accused of forcing pet wedge issues and helping the GOP win n/t

[closeupready]

20. Yeah, there will be those who do that.

But you know something, at the first sign of that, I shut people out, stop listening, ignore and just continue saying what needs to be said. I may not have permission from closet homophobes to do so, but I don't give a flying fuck and will throw their shit right back in their faces and carry on.

[dbackjon]

17. Another fuck you from Obama

[Runcible Spoon]

19. I can't even read the other thread on this without seeing red

Same old bullshit about how civil rights aren't a priority, gotta put his ducks in a line, he's the smartest muthafucka in the house for not blowing his political capital right before the bailout vote blah blah blah :puke:

[donco6]

21. Gasp! NO EFFING WAY!

:eyes:

I actually think I'll miss my nice space under the bus here. I brought in cable last week. . .

[Clintonista2]

22. Don't blame me, I supported Hillary

[Yes We Did]

25. That' Helps...

Yup...

[marimour]

28. she is just as anti-gay as Obama

Hillary may have had more gay support but lets not kid ourselves about her position. She took the same position of political cowardice that Obama has taken. I actually don't think either person is "anti-gay" but if Obama gets that label then Hillary should too. She would no more stand up for gay rights than Obama has, and her husband is even worse.

[sniffa]

30. No shit.

I'm shocked.

[jberryhill]

31. And DADT started, uhmmmmm.... when?

That president between Bush and Bush.... oh... ummmm... what was the name?

[Yes We Did]

26. Can't Say I'm Shocked...

He's been doing that a lot lately.

[TheWraith]

27. Hasn't ANYONE learned from the LAST time this nonsense came around?

The media had a frenzy for a few days about how Obama wasn't going to look at DADT until 2011. Turns out it was all completely false, based on Politico's wild-ass reinterpretation of something Conyers said about there being more immediate priorities.

But now we've got another vague "news" article with no direct statement by the Obama admin, speculating wildly based on who knows what.

Repealing DADT is part of the Obama platform. That's the final word.

[gaspee]

29. I can geuss wich wanker

is the ignored right before this post - the dickwad who comes here specifically to piss on us. Am I right? Am I right?

If anyone thought Obama would do fuck all for the glbt community, then they weren't listening. He's *uncomfortable* with us. Well, Archie Bunker would have been *uncomfortable* with him. And we all know what an ass Archie was. (substitute whomever you please for Archie.)

[Cherchez la Femme]

44. I've seen more than a couple,

but yeah, it's one of them
...not the "dr.", though, a ...spook, shall we say....

[Strathos]

32. He's gonna be an asshole just like Clinton, just like Bush

he doesn't give a fuck about the GLBT community and it's already showing.

[The Brethren]

49. The more I am reading of what Obama's

doing in a very short time already as our new Prez., the more I don't want anything to do with him. The only thing I've read about him so far that I can actually say I support is when he signed the pay equity bill for women.

I'm still a registered as a dem and have always given my votes to this party, including Obama. However, regarding gay rights, as well as other things, I'm beginning to feel like a political nomad. And if you try and say anything negative about Obama right now in DU's general sites someone will accuse you of not supporting the Dem. party and Obama and that you need to STFU.

Personally, I don't recall when I agreed to support the Democrat party yrs. ago, that I also agreed to give up my ability to think for myself and not say what I think is important -- including that Obama is no more concerned about gay Americans then the other Presidents have been. In fact, I'm so disappointed with a lot of things right now involving our dem. politicians I'm not sure what I should do.

[nikkos_71]

54. Don't jump the gun...

If we are so eager to already jump on the Bash Obama Bandwagon, we are no better than the Republicans. Maybe he wants to find out for himself and when the reports come back in the affirmative, that gays do no harm serving in the open, he will react. Until then, he has to be cautious and strategize every step. His EVERY move is being scrutinized even more so because of his race and the state of the economy. I truly believe his character is one of promise and following through. He will be the uniter instead of the divider and we just have to have faith right now. This might seem like a bunch of Pollyanna BS but come on, seriously. Did you expect him to walk right into the Pentagon and demand DADT be repealed? He has to lay his own foundation first. I know I am going to get crucified for this post but I am still a believer and I too was a Hillary supporter but now believe the right choice was made.

[struggle4progress]

35. .

http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/civil_rights/

[TechBear_Seattle]

37. Words are cheap

I judge on the basis of actions. And Obama's actions with regards to LGBT issues have not inspired confidence.

I will believe his rhetoric when I see him taking honest action to support it.

[Yes We Did]

39. Which Is Why I Made This

you DID notice whose bus that is... right?

[Ioo]

45. OMG I loveit

[struggle4progress]

40. I would not presume to tell anyone what organizing efforts to undertake to force those

promises into the realm of actual policy. There will be enormous pressure exerted on a huge number of issues, and so (of course) some will simply drop off the table. But those, who are interested in any of the items listed, now seem to have an opportunity to craft effective political campaigns pushing for such change, with a real prospect for success

[ThomCat]

50. We are all quite well aware

that our equal rights are considered a really nifty idea to implement someday when there is nothing controversial going on. Because, of course, if anything controversial is going on then bring up our rights will just be a "wedge issue" so we have to stay hidden. But when will there ever be a day when nothing controversial is going on.

"Crafting and effective political campaign" will never be enough. We need to rejuvenate a movement with high-pressure and high-publicity tactics. That's what will force the issue and get success.

Political campaigns are always about negotiating, and we all know that Democrats always give us away in those negotiations.

[laconicsax]

41. It's only a four-letter acronym!

First it was the 'just one song,' then a 'two-minute prayer.' If this is the four-letter acronym, what's next? Oh, right...It's only 8 more years of DOMA. :grr:

I really want to be proven wrong.

[Prophet 451]

42. Ah, shit

Most of the western world has gay people openly serving in their military without problems. The only study it needs is how quickly can it be repealed and do we need to reorganise anything in the process. Fit enough to fight and die for one's country but not fit enough to be allowed to say who you love (let alone marry but that's another rant). Never has the phrase "poor bloody infantry" been more appropriate.

Just keep repeating "Still better than Palin".

[Cherchez la Femme]

43. Is anyone

who is gay, that is, in the least bit surprised? :shrug:

[HillbillyBob]

51. IM not surprised at all, disappointed though. I had hope up till

the MOTHERFUCKING FISA vote then I knew that yea better than mcfailin but I don't know how godamn much.
I hate the Rpigs after 30 damn years of their bullshit.
I m ready to check out of du and go the hell to canada. I would if I could afford to. I would have years ago. Im sick of the bullshit that gays are good enough to court for votes, but fuck them over as soon as the election is over.

[Cherchez la Femme]

52. Amen! nt

[bluedawg12]

53. We'll see how the fantasy of bipartisanship unfolds

it's not about the repugs just needing to "get to know" progressives, there are major philosophical and political differences that divide us and when push comes to shove, gay rights will be among them, as will, how to fix the economy.

The repugs understand only one thing, power and a firm kick in the arse. Selling out the base is not going to win support on other issues from the rabid right.

[bluedawg12]

56. I'll tellyou what he needs ASAP a bridge across the Khyber Pass

the supply line is cut off from Pakistan and we are essentially screwed.

Then, he needs to get those Arabic speaking 300 or so gays that Bush fired and send them back to work, pronto.

[Wine and music]

57. I'm one of those

Arabic speaking gays kicked out of the military under DADT. I was skeptical it would be repealed this quickly, if at all... especially after the prop 8 fiasco. Bigots are vocal.