My son's father just emotionally crushed him.

[ezgoingrl]

My son, who is fourteen, is home from school for a few days because he's sick. So he was up late tonight, but I thought it worked out well because it gave him a chance to chat online with his dad and they haven't talked in a very long time. So my child was very very excited about getting to talk to his dad tonight. You see, his father moved to Australia over 10 years ago and their main mode of communication is the Internet whenever his father decides to communicate with him, that is. His dad likes to be buddies until there is a new girlfriend or wife in the picture. He got married last year and didn't even tell my son about it!

So sometime tonight, "Dad" takes a good look at my son's MySpace page and notices that next to sexuality, it reads Bi. "Dad" tells my son that he is disappointed in him, son is summarily crushed, distraught, confused, hurt and about a thousand other emotions all rolled into one massive sob.

This is a non-issue for me and until tonight it was also a non-issue for my son. I am so freaking mad that I'm calm. I had the presence of mind to post a very supportive comment on my son's page, saying that he is not a disappointment and how there are so many reasons he isn't then I ran off a quick laundry list of the reasons he is as perfect as a human can be.

I feel this requires a response from me to his dad because his dad just stepped so far out of line that I'm willing to risk the goodwill that I have with his family to call him on his bullshit hypocrisy. But I'm not entirely sure that would serve my son's best interests unless of course the rest of the family starts judging my son. Grrr!!

Edit: If this were your father, would you want your mom to call him on it? If so, what needs to be said? How should it be said? Should I worry about ruining the goodwill between his family and myself? I go back and forth between being outraged and being stunned with disbelief. I will read this later, but I've got to try and sleep a little. Please, any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Until now, I have been able to keep things between my son's father and myself very amicable, even friendly. But I've got to do something to tell him how out of line he is, especially since he's been missing in action for so long. What do I do? How do I do it?

That freaking bastard, where in the hell does he get the nerve?

[elleng]

1. FEELING for you, ezgoin!

HUGS to you and your son.

Sorry I have no advice at the moment, 'cause I'm in the middle of a somewhat similar situation, and almost similarly angry. estranged husband forced our 24 year old daughter to lie to me about whether she knew anything about settlement of sale of our house.

PERHAPS just telling your son's father the extent to which he hurt your/his son?

Thinking of you.

E

[ezgoingrl]

2. Thank you.

Thinking of you, too. Hang in there and be strong. :hug:

[Cronus Protagonist]

3. Sure, use it to further alienate the boy from his father

He doesn't need that bum anyways.

[KitchenWitch]

21. Sounds to me by reading the OP that the father is doing everything he needs to

to alienate himself from his son.

He moved to Australia 10 years ago, he only pays attention to his son when he is not in a relationship with a woman...

Do not try to spin this as mom trying to alienate her son from dad.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

22. Sounds like the father is doing the alienation, so I don't understand the point of your post

[catnhatnh]

4. I see it is bullshit...

but is it hypocrisy?? What I'm getting is that Dad may be a troglodyte without being a hypocrite and that's a real important distinction right now. Perhaps it would be better to point out to your child that Dad also disproves of gays and lesbians as well (if this is the case) and to point out that while he expressed direct disappointment it is also directed at a larger body of people for whom you and your child feel acceptance. Pointing out a larger group is being dismissed by his father should make it easier to accept that dad, while disapproving, is just flat out wrong. And at this point that may be the only help available. I'll say this to your son as an old straight white guy-loving another human is never wrong-and I have Bi step children. Your dad is wrong and there is hope he will come to realize this. Regards to you and your son,Cat

[pnwmom]

6. I bet it IS hypocritical, because the ostensible reason for most people's

disapproval of homosexuality is based on "morality" -- and this guy has had a series of wives/girlfriends. So who is he to look down on anyone else for "immorality"?

[pnwmom]

5. Your first duty is to protect your son from emotional abuse, either from his father

or the members of his family. If the price of "goodwill" with his family is to let them hurt your son, then the price is unacceptable.

So tell the father calmly and firmly that his comments were hurtful and he must not repeat them.

Then talk to your son and really listen. Let him decide what kind of relationship he wants with his father, and on what terms -- and do what you can to support him. If your son wants to stay close to his father, but his father is toxic , then I hope you get your son some counseling.

Have you heard about the organization called PFLAG? Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays? If there is a chapter near you, I bet you could get some good ideas there. Here's a link:

http://community.pflag.org/Page.aspx?pid=209

[pansypoo53219]

7. i am sorry your son still feels the need to care what his father thinks.

hopefully he will grow to not need to 'need' him. my parents divorced when i was about 5. lived in the same city. yet after his marriage to the step-monster i saw even less. but i had 2 grandpas and uncles. so i didn't need him. it fact as a liberal, and as he is a racist dittohead, i am DAMNED glad i didn't have to grow up w/ him. he is a charming jerk. well, if he doesn't care about me, won't give a shit about him. tell you son that it is his father that lost. because if he knew your son,....sometimes parents suck. not his fault. good luck.

OH, he should get a book of comics, deals with his father being like your ex. ugh. he does liberal cartoons. during georgee, he drew him as a generalisimo. can't remember the name, but i saw he was dealing with issues i did when i was 13 or so. thick black lines.....

[catnhatnh]

11. Ever'one NEEDS approval of Mom AND Dad...

And the only way past it is to either find that the disapproval is wrong, or to have one's own needs and personality repressed.In this case it is hurtful but not hard. Dad believes old stuff that is being swept away. The son should be supported and told that in some ways it is his father that deserves scorn, or from a more enlightened person, pity, because all his judgements are based on stupid old concepts about matching genitalia. JESUS CHRIST as an old guy why need I examine or say this? Let me pretend this is my son and he is once again that tender age:

"Ben, life can be either brief and brutal, or glorious and your ode to love.The choice to enjoy and accept and love or to curse and complain and find fault, is your own. The finest times I ever knew were when I loved, and danced, and accepted. When I found dark despair it was a dungeon of my own design.

You are on this earth to choose. You will live your "three score years plus ten" more or less. A year in celebration is worth ten in regret. The finest life is to love all of it and lay it down with no regrets. The saddest thing must be to hate and envy for a hundred years.

Live boldly and proud. Until you choose to hurt another you are blessed. Rejoice in youth. Celebrate your love. Cherish your Mom and respect your me, if only in so far as half of what I was you are. You ARE me but improved with the finest genes from your Mom. You are my delight and message to the future. Enjoy.

Tell your son if I had been as wise then as I am now, this would be my message.

[Eryemil]

8. My personal advice, for what it's worth, is to look to the interests of your son first and foremost

Fuck the father, fuck the family.

I think you should definitely have a talk with the man, for your own sake as well.
Besides, it's better to really get things out in the open so you can start preparing the way to either reconciliate the father and your son or help your son through the indefinite loss of an(admittedly absent) father figure.
Some parents just cannot deal with it and this man doesn't sound like the most reasonable person either, through the picture you've painted.

Hope this helps.

P.S. You can probably tell from the responses lots of us have a lot of anger when it comes to this issue. With reason too; if anyone knows just how fickle a parent's love can be us queers are it.
My mother was and is my rock and my best friend, my father...

[poverlay]

9. I had a bit of sage counsel, but these other fine and caring DUers already said everything you need

to know.
I encourage you to listen to them.

[Golden Raisin]

10. Every situation and family is

unique and as a total stranger I would hesitate to give you any specific advice other than to send you my good wishes, sympathies and empathy. As the son of a cruel and emotionally abusive father I would tell you to continue to forcefully let your child know you are there for him. An adult father versus a 14 year old, unformed adolescent boy (or girl) is simply not a fair fight and your son needs your adult (emotional) support as well as a positive adult example. I had no support --- quite the contrary --- and almost 50 years later I'm still bandaging the painful emotional scars of my father's abuse and only now gaining some sort of acceptance/peace. My thoughts are with you and your son.

[mahina]

12. As the mother of a beautiful son whose father is a giant horse's ass,

I can only tell you what I would do.

I would definitely tell his father that he hurt his son badly, and tell him it was an assholic thing to do, and to never do it again. Period. Thanks, bye.

I would give my son lots of nonverbal support- hugs, holding hands, and let him know if he wants to talk about this or anything, I'm here for him.

I tried so hard not to communicate negativity about my ex to my son, but finally he found out on his own what kind of person his father is. It broke my heart, but it turns out it only bruised his. How can anyone say and do such hurtful stuff to a pure heart? I don't know. It's pollution. Kids understand it for exactly what it is.

Aloha, best of luck, you sound like an awesome Mom.

[dsc]

13. You have gotten a lot of good advice

but I do think your ex has to own his feelings in order to work through them. Given the long distance nature of this relationship the usual time helping may not but the only hope for a decent father son relationship coming out of this is for the father to come to terms with his 'disappointment' and grow up. If he won't or can't then your son needs protected from him.

[bigscott]

14. as a gay dad of a straight son

I have always been supportive of his choice to be straight :evilgrin:

My heart goes out to your son and I hope he understands at some level that his father is a hypocrite. The fact that he only maintains contact with his own son when it is convenient for him to do so, tells me he is not much of a dad in any way other than biological. Your son has a wonderful role model in you and will someday realize that his father is an asshole.

The teenage years are rough enough to go through, thinking that your absentee father disapproves of you should not be one of the issues he has to deal with.

I hope he gets over this fast because he sounds like a really great kid

Peace to you and your son

[SacredCow]

17. I am also a gay dad with a son....

but he's only 7, so straight vs gay hasn't been established.

Some of my gay friends (without kids) assume that I want my son to be gay (I guess so there's more of a common thread). And this couldn't be further from the truth- I want him to be happy and comfortable with who he is. Period. End of story.

[Sonicmedusa]

15. I always find it interesting that any parent, mother or father,

Who has only been marginally involved with raising his or her child for the majority of that childs life, can think they have a right to feel "disappointed" in anything about that child. I would think that any "disappointment" should be reserved for themselves.

[Ioo]

16. Maybe it is about time for your son to know his real dad... the the fake one..

You may want to give your son an objective view of his father... he is old enough to understand if you do it a way that is not bitter. Explain that his father has been very absent in his life (a lot like mine) and while you know your son loves his father, that his father is really speaking out of the fact that he really does not know your son...tell him that...

Also go on to tell him that his opinion of himself is far more important that an absent father's opinion. It is time to let your son see the true father, not the fake one we all make in our mind when we lack the datapoints for a real view.

Tell him that you love him, you know him, and that as long as he loves himself, that is all that matters.

I kinda speak from experience here... so....

[bluedawg12]

18. It seems that your son is your primary concern

I would put my energies into him and help place the whole thing into context.

The father wasn't out of line, he was expressing his feelings.

The son heard some truth, painful, yes, but the truth.

Why shield your child from the truth? There will be others in life who will disagree with something or other in his life, it's a learning experience. Not so much about sexuality, which is what it is for your son, and it is what it is for his father, but the chance to put it all in context.

I think the answer is, from my perspective, people are not always going to approve of who I am or what I say or do, but so what? I make my own decisions and am my own person.

So, your son was open about his sexuality and some one disapproved, it was his dad, well, dads are wrong sometimes too. Society is wrong sometimes too. The internal work comes first, learning how to deal with the adverse. Later, when, there is confidence in who we are and what we stand for, then, we can look to changing, or influencing and enlightening others.

Now there have to be ground rules, the father has the right to feel disappointed, but, not cross over into slurs, or hate speech. The son has the right to hear the old man out, say "Thanks dad, sorry you don't approve, but, it is my life. How's the weather?"

14 may be a good age to further establish a separate identity from parents and cut the cord a little further.

Good luck. These are just my musings. Take the best and don't fret the rest.

Peace. :)

[pnwmom]

24. I strongly disagree. It isn't fair to vomit our undigested feelings into the ears

of our children in the name of "honesty."

The father couldn't help feeling them, they were feelings. But he had the choice to reveal them to his son or not; and he made the wrong choice, the unempathic choice, the selfish choice.

When he realized he was feeling disappointment, he should have had more restraint and kept that to himself. He should have said something loving and supportive to his son, not wounding. Then, when the father was alone, he should have examined his own reaction to try to understand why he was disappointed. And, if he couldn't shake the feeling, then the father should have gotten counseling.

That is what a good, empathic response -- as opposed to a careless or selfish response -- would have been.

[Toasterlad]

25. Agreed. Expressing Disappointment in Your Child For Being Who He is Isn't "Honesty"

It's fucking child abuse.

[bluedawg12]

29. This is the first conversation.

[bluedawg12]

28. I missed the vomit part.

The OP said he was dissapointed.

[pnwmom]

30. The OP said he was "disappointed IN HIM." Not worried for him. Judging him.

The father sees the boy's sexuality as a failing (which, as the OP says, is hypocritical coming from a father who is involved in serial relationships with women and ignores his son most of the time.)

The father saw the blog entry and criticized him -- not for his actions, but for being what he is. I'll stand by my metaphor. The father had uncomfortable feelings that he chose to dump on his son. That was not a mature, caring, or empathic response.

[bluedawg12]

33. I'm not defending the father's POV

but, this is a family matter, and the first conversation about this topic.

It's not vomit, it's not abuse, the father has a right to tell his son how he feels.

It's a family dialogue and unless the father is honest there is no room for further dialogue and to work towards acceptance and understanding.

I would rather have people talk openly about how they feel about gays than behind our backs.

As I said, expressing dissapointment is a lot different than using anger, or using sexual slurs, which, according to the thread was not the case.

[pnwmom]

35. It was verbal vomit. It was undigested feelings, allowed to come up and tossed

at the child.

This kind of "truth-telling" is harmful, not helpful. The father had a duty not to immediately unload his feelings onto his impressionable son, but to pull himself together -- and probably get some counseling -- before he addressed this very sensitive topic.

The fact that the son was so devastated after the phone call shows that the father handled it badly.

[bluedawg12]

37. The only data from the OP

is:

>>"Dad" tells my son that he is disappointed in him<<

It is a sensitive subject.

This was their first conversation. It may lead to understanding down the line, between father and son.

[TEmperorHasNoClothes]

34. Are you kidding me? Of course the father was out of line.

You're not talking about adult to adult communication, you're talking about a father who is disappointed in something that his son can do nothing about, the same as if his father was unhappy that he has blond vs. brown hair. Kids at this age are extremely vulnerable, their egos are still forming, particularly around adolescence and learning that they are sexual beings, whether gay, straight, bi, transgendered or whatever. The absentee father has no right to decide, after leaving the child at age 4, that he's going to begin trying to shape his son by expressing negativity. Bisexuality is no more a choice or lifestyle than heterosexuality. If the son posted about choosing to drop out of school or become a drug dealer, that's something in which disappointment can be expressed, although from a long distance, it would be better to gather facts and approach things different.

[pnwmom]

36. Well said. n/t

[Imagevision]

19. There are times to be amicable and times not to be with; "That freaking bastard"...

Option One: how does your son feel about his "Dads" comment of disappointment? - If possible remain friends with Dad's family if you wish and any future negative emails from "Dad" perhaps may be unnecessary to respond to, if over a period of time "Dad" doesn't get it - well he won't be getting replied emails either.

Don't bring yourself down to "Dad's" level - many times in my life I've wanted to really sound off at personal experiences but I believed if I did it would only provoke more dialogue which was the last thing I needed/wanted.
Life is too short for this sort of crap.

Option Two: You can really let loose and sound off to "Dad" and tell him exactly what you've told us here at DU. but be prepared to carry this incident on in your life for the next year or two, you sound like a supportive mom, your son is fortunate to have you. good luck

[Iggo]

20. My gut says "Call him on it."

But my gut's never been in your situation, so maybe you oughts listen to people who have been, ya know?

[hisownpetard]

23. What incredible gall your ex has!! If anyone has a right to be disappointed, it would be

your son, being disappointed that his father cared so little about him
that he's o.k. with moving halfway around the world and only "speaking" to his
young son by email, when he has nothing better to do.

Thank goodness he has you, and vice versa!

[Smarmie Doofus]

26. He sounds clueless so clue him in.

http://www.amazon.com/Choice-Answers-Frequently-Questions-Lesbian/dp/0060832800/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234489504&sr=8-1

Send him a book. Homer doesn't understand enough to know whether he should be disappointed or not be disappointed.

I wouldn't blow it up, at this point, anyway; for junior's sake . So far you're doing fine.

[Raster]

27. Your son's father has more issues than National Geographic.

Support your son and be the adult, caring, nuturing parent he deserves and needs since it seems your ex-husband is incapable of doing so.

Your exhusband sounds like a shithead. He doesn't deserve either you or your son. I would, in no uncertain terms, let your husband know that his homophobic/bi-phobic bigotry is not appreciated.

[Jamastiene]

31. Talk to your son about it and offer him this advice:

Next time his dad brings it up and says something like that, he should let his dad know that he is disappointed in his dad for the homophobia, not being there, only half paying attention to him and only then not even half the time...

Sometimes, you gotta sting them back for them to finally get it.

That was the way it was with my mother for ages. I wish I had been way more firm with my mother way sooner. It wasn't until I didn't speak to her for over 2 years (after making sure she knew why) that she finally changed her overbearing, judgmental tune just a little. For her, that's a major improvement. She is at least not in my face about things so much any more.

[The Brethren]

32. I hope things improve between your son and his father.

I'm not sure what is the best thing to do in your case except to, above all, go with your gut instincts and to continue to love your son.

His father is responsible for his own actions and words. And aside from the hurt he causes his own son in doing so, his father is the one who loses. If in time, when your son becomes a young man, and your ex realizes, perhaps, how insensitive he was to his son through his words and emotions, then he may also find that looking back is not the same as going back and changing things.

My father left my mom to raise by herself due to his selfishness. She never complained about it, nor put him down to me. She always told me the positive things about him. And when I became an adult, I chose to speak with him to get to know him and to see if he regretted what he had done. He tried to apologize for everything, but whether he meant it or not, I realized he can't take back what he lost in me as his daughter - including my trust.

Whatever your husband does, I think the most powerful thing you can do for your son, is to remind him that you are proud of him and that your husband's views are his own issues which have little to do with either you or your son.

[Deep13]

38. Father runs away to Australia, but the SON is the disappointment.

Yeah, that makes sense. :wtf:

If it were me, I'd make sure the son knows that there is nothing wrong with him and that the father is speaking from bigotry.

[freestyle]

39. Your ex abandoned his right to judge when he abandoned his family

Unpleasant parental reactions are a too common fact of life for many GLBT youth, but a long distance reaction from an uninvolved parent is especially galling. There is a chance that your son's father will come around, but it won't happen long distance. If this guy wants to be part of his son's path to manhood, he needs to make some changes.

I'm having such a reaction because my parents also divorced when I was young, but my father has been a constant presence in my life and was actually best man for me and my partner. There are ways to be a parent to your children even after the relationship between the parents has shifted.

Tell your ex that he does not have the right to do drive by assaults on your son's emotions.

[plantwomyn]

40. Not to scare you but

maybe you should inform your ex about the percentage of suicides of gay/bi youth. You are your son's best allie and sounding board.
Stay calm.
I think it's a good idea for you to e-mail the ex and explain that his two cent's worth of parenting is hurtful and that you and your son are disappointed in HIM. He has left you to deal with the pain he has caused. I'm sure you can come up with a way to make him see that he shouldn't judge your son on what in reality is only a small part of his life. I'm sure your ex doesn't want to be judged on ANY one part of his life, especially his parenting skills.
I would talk to your son and explain that you NEED to get this off your chest and that nothing said between you and your ex is about HIM. It's up to your son to grade your ex as a dad. It's up to you to grade him as a parent.
As far as you ex's family is concerned, go to the matriarch and explain that your ex has emotionally hurt your child and that you will not stand for that kind of treatment from ANYONE! If they cannot love him unconditionally you need to know now and to start to distance yourselves form them. Let them know that THEY have a choice. Love him as he is no matter what or stay away from him and keep their bigotry to themselves. They can only cause more pain to him if they feel the way your ex does.

BTW Your son made a choice to identify himself as Bi. The last thing he needs at 14 is to be told that his "choice" of identity is "disappointing". Don't let him crawl into a closet. The Closet is dark lonely place.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheWraith]

41. I would say you shouldn't hesitate to call the father on his behavior.

And don't hesitate to let your son know that you're angry at the father. For one thing, it helps your son to understand that it was the father who did something inappropriate, not him. I can tell you from experience that that's not easy for a kid, because even if he "understands" mentally that he's in the right, it still takes an enormous emotional chunk out of someone when a person they care about does something like that, no matter what the cause or issue is.

[Chovexani]

42. Please stand up for your son.

It will mean far more to him than keeping some kind of bullshit peace with bigots.

His dad is a trifling asshole in more ways than one, it seems.

[zingaro]

43. You just tell him.

Sure, it's a big deal and there are big things hanging in the balance but your son's father is gone and has been for 10 years. There are ramifications to his words because your son is still emotionally attached to them but you have the right and duty to say something, at least.

I would make as little a deal of it as possible, actually, to your son's father. A simple statement about the hurt you witnessed, but no diatribe is needed. The thing is that you aren't going to change this man's mind - if he's an idiot, then he's an idiot. If he couldn't think before reacting when it came to his son, then you aren't going to change anything. And making it a big deal is only going to fuel him into further pushing the buttons when it comes to your son...and I don't think you want that.

My biggest concern would be to mitigate the damage to your son and his psyche and identity. I wouldn't dwell on what his father said but rather would choose to focus on how amazing he is - remind him of how proud you are of him and tell him why, praise him for being so secure and self-assured at such a young age. Do everything you're able to bolster him and just totally ignore his father's comment. The more power YOU give it, the more it will have.

Good luck to you both :)

[nikkos_71]

45. A piece of advice

I was 18 when my father found out I was gay. We had a huge fight in which he told me he didn't need a "faggot" for a son and besides, he had two other boys to carry on the family name. I moved out and it took a couple of months for the dust to settle. My stepmom invited me over for dinner and I accepted. What I didn't know was that my dad had gone to visit my grandfather who was dying of cancer. Upon telling my grandfather the situation, my grandpa looked at my dad and said, "That's your son. You must love him no matter what." Besides shocking my dad, it certainly shocked all of us. My grandfather was from another era filled with cowboys, whiskey and women. Now, almost 20 years later, I have the best relationship with my dad. I guess what I am trying to say is, let the dust settle a little. If it takes you to step in then do it. Contact the father and explain the impact his words had on your son. But I have to agree with many who have commented. Sounds like the "relationship" is not worth much to begin with. You have to talk with your son and like someone stated earlier, really listen to what he says. Besides the comments his dad made, I am sure feelings of abandonment and rejection play a role here as well. It's too bad that people feel the need to look down on others for their sexual orientation while obliging themselves to supposed "immoral" indulgences. I am proud though that with a son whose 14 you can be so supportive as a mom. I would of never dreamed to come out at an early age. Kudos to you. Although at times it seems like the world is changing, unfortunately, there will be those who don't. I personally would really like to hear how this turns out and I will be thinking of you and your son.