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La Moves To Bar Same-Sex Couples From Having Names On Birth Certificates

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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 04:57 PM
Original message
La Moves To Bar Same-Sex Couples From Having Names On Birth Certificates
By 365gay Newscenter Staff
05.06.2009 3:20pm EDT

(Baton Rouge, Louisiana) The Louisiana legislature is moving forward with legislation that would bar the state from issuing birth certificates showing two people of the same sex as parents.

The House Health and Welfare Committee has voted 12-3 to send the bill to the full House for a vote. Gov. Bobby Jindal (R) supports the bill.

The measure grew out of a federal lawsuit brought by a gay couple who want their names on the birth certificate of their adopted son.

Oren Adar and Mickey Smith adopted their Louisiana-born son in 2006 in a New York court, where a judge issued an adoption decree.

http://www.365gay.com/news/la-moves-to-bar-same-sex-couples-from-having-names-on-birth-certificates/

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Duncan Grant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Is there a word to describe the depths of such petty and vindictive behavior?
I'm speechless. :nuke:
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. evil? vile? morally repugnant? cruel?
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Republican
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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Ding...nt
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. Final decision will be interesting because states routinely deny legal certificates issued by other
states allowing their citizens to exercise pre-existing rights protected by our Constitution.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I read that four times, and I still don't know what you mean.
Sorry, I guess I'm tired. Can you dumb it down for me?
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. (1) State A issues a certificate to its citizen X to exercise a pre-existing right, (2) State B
refuses to honor that certificate and prohibits citizen X from exercising that pre-existing right in State B.

A pre-existing right is one like those protected by the First and Fourth Amendment, "not a right
granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence."
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Creideiki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Okay. Let me try to explain the difference.
Concealed Carry licenses are not legal contracts. Marriage licenses are legal contracts.

You can tear up your concealed carry license and it's like it never existed (until you go down to some government office and have them print a new one for you.)

Marriage is a contract between two individuals. If you tear up the marriage license, that doesn't grant you an instant divorce. If you burn it in a fire, it's not an automatic annulment.

If you have a concealed carry license in one jurisdiction and move to another jurisdiction that also allows concealed carry licenses, you have to make sure you fulfill all requirements to have a concealed carry license.

If one of you Regular Lahunga Beachers is married to your second cousin in a state that allows second cousins to marry and move to a state that does not, the marriage is still recognized. You don't need to go to the jurisdiction and get a new marriage license. It's a portable contract.

If someone in West Lahunga Beach is fortunate enough to live in a state with civil unions, domestic partners, or (my fave) designated beneficiaries, and moves to another state--even if that state allows civil unions, domestic partners, or (WTF is a designated beneficiary anyway? I'm not planning on dying any time soon!) designated beneficiaries, you have to go back to the jurisdiction and reapply for their version.

Regular Lahunga Beachers who get drunk in Vegas and decide to get a highly sanctified marriage on the first date get over a thousand special rights granted to them by the state of Nevada, their home state(s), and the federal government. West Lahunga Beachers who get drunk in Vegas and "meet their soulmates" while in a drunken stupor have a hangover (unless they're lucky like me and don't get hangovers) and at the very worst are caught in a coyote trap.

Is that clear now?

If not, there's a forum set aside for you to talk about how perfect the world would be somewhere over thataway, but this is West Lahunga Beach, not the Guns, Gays and God forum.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. LOL, you use a lot of words to demonstrate ignorance. Birth certificates are not contracts. n/t
Edited on Thu May-07-09 10:03 AM by jody
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Creideiki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. It's a public record and contract
Having your name on the birth certificate provides protection for both the adult and child. What happens when the Parent A dies and Parent A is the only one allowed on the birth certificate for Child A. Child A becomes either a ward of the state or can be stolen by Grandparent A who is a homophobic mess (if you don't recognize what a homophobic mess is, look in the mirror). It also allows Parent B visitation rights to Child A if Parent A and Parent B break up--can't call it a divorce because LA is part of Regular Lahunga Beach where y'all don't think gay families are as valuable as your family.

You really should go back to your Gods, Gays and Guns forum. We know more about this here. You know in West Lahunga Beach where we're civilized.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. More laughs. Have a nice day. n/t
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Creideiki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. I see what the problem is now
You wanted EAST Lahunga Beach. This is WEST Lahunga Beach. You know, when you look at the map, east is to the right, west is to the left. If it gets complicated hold up your hands with your thumb sticking out and your pointer sticking up. The one that makes an "L" is the left one as in "liberal" or "left-wing".

It can get confusing, because the guns forum is just below this one on the forum lobby list. I'm sure you just slipped a little bit when you were pressing your mouse button. (Although I'd hope that you'd have better aim.)

It's okay, the next bus to Regular Lahunga Beach is leaving...well, right now. If you take it, then you can take a connecting route to East Lahunga Beach.
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Jindal is trying to deligitimize same sex families and their rights.
This comes down to The Full Faith and Credit Clause of the Constitution.

Article IV, Section 1 of the United States Constitution, commonly known as the Full Faith and Credit Clause, addresses the duties that states within the United States have to respect the "public acts, records, and judicial rulings" of other states.-wiki

Birth certificates are issued by States.

The Constitutional ensures that full faith and credit is applied to certain documents between States.

It would lead to chaos if a New York birth certificate were invalid in Texas, for example. This matter usually does not come up with adults and seems to come up in regards to the adoptive children of same sex parents.

So States issue birth certificates and an over arching Federal law ensures consistent acceptance of that certificate.

What has happened is that this principle has been disrupted. Some States allow for both parents of the same sex to be listed on adoptive birth certificates.

Other States have not always recognized such certificates, seemingly in violation of the full faith and credit clause. This creates havoc for families who are listed as adoptive parents, of the same sex, on a child’s birth certificate if they move or travel to a State where birth certificates of these children, are not recognized.

This came up in Oklahoma, in a lawsuit by three same sex parents.

Going back to this OP, Gov. Jindal is busy making his rightwing bones in Louisiana so that a couple who are the legal adoptive parents of a child in New York would not be recognized as such in Louisiana.

This creates problems for families who may have to prove parental rights in a medical emergency, or assign health beneficiary status entitled to dependents, or sign papers for school etc. etc. In another words, depriving legal status to same sex parents that every other citizen in the US enjoy, if they happen to be of different sex.

The measure grew out of a federal lawsuit brought by a gay couple who want their names on the birth certificate of their adopted son.

>>
http://www.365gay.com/news/la-moves-to-bar-same-sex-couples-from-having-names-on-birth-certificates/
Oren Adar and Mickey Smith adopted their Louisiana-born son in 2006 in a New York court, where a judge issued an adoption decree.

When Smith attempted to get a new birth certificate for their child so he could add his son to his health insurance, the office of Louisiana State Registrar Darlene Smith told him that Louisiana does not recognize adoption by unmarried parents and so could not issue it.

Lambda Legal filed suit on behalf of Adar and Smith in October 2007, saying that the registrar was violating the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the U.S. Constitution by refusing to recognize the New York adoption. The Constitution holds that judgments and orders issued by a court in one state are legally binding in other states as well.

In December, U.S. District Judge Jay Zainey in New Orleans ordered the state Office of Vital Records to put the names of both fathers on the amended birth certificate.

In his ruling, Zainey said failing to amend the birth certificate violated the U.S. Constitution. Zainey issued the ruling without holding a trial.

In April, the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals put a stay on the ruling to allow the state to appeal.

<snip>

The Supreme Court has ruled previously that there “are some limitations upon the extent to which a state may be required by the full faith and credit clause to enforce even the judgment of another state in contravention of its own statutes or policy.”

<<



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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Creideiki see page 36
Edited on Thu May-07-09 11:16 AM by bluedawg12
http://www.ca10.uscourts.gov/opinions/06/06-6213.pdf

The Oklahoma State Supreme Court found it was unconstitutional in it's refusal to accept final adoption orders of other States that permit adoption by same sex couples.

Ahh... Jindal and the repigs looking for meaning in a diminished political party, with a shrinking tent and many, many, failed ideas.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Marriage certificates and carry licenses.
Pretty much the only two major official certifications issued by a state, that aren't recognized automatically by every other state, are marriage licenses (for gay couples) and concealed carry permits. Basically all other significant documents like drivers licenses, vehicle inspections, birth certificates, etcetera, are valid when you take them over a state line.

If it were ruled unconstitutional for a state not to recognize a birth certificate provided by another state, it would be a step towards federally requiring that all states respect all judicial acts of another state--which includes the repeal of DOMA, as well as more uniform rules with regard to concealed carry of firearms. I'm sure the Pink Pistols will be thrilled to death.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. 10X answer. n/t
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Thanks to both of you. n/t
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. Whoa. You scared me.
I thought Los Angeles had gone crazy. I already knew that Louisiana (or at least the people there with political power) was crazy.
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SacredCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
13. Yeah, that's my state....
:banghead:
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Creideiki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. ...
:hug:
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SacredCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. At least the mayor of my city isn't that way....
He's very supportive of GLBT issues and events.
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