Kerry group called, wanting support and money. Guess which I gave?

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

Some kind of health insurance program for kids legislation which is being introduced by Kerry, and they wanted my name on a petition and some money to go along with it.

I pointedly noted that I have a problem with Kerry's recent position on things and that I would not give a dime, but that I WOULD give a donation to a charity for children in lieu of a contribution to this "Kerry for Kids" group. I also agreed to have my name on the petition.

I did say, in fairness, that it's possible I'd change my mind, leaving open the possibility that if Kerry flip-flops away from discouraging a gay marriage platform in MA, then maybe I'd reconsider. But since speaking out against such a platform seems to have been a priority with him back in March or whenever that was, he's drawn a line in the sand, I'm afraid.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. Line in the sand aside...

I can understand your not wanting to support Kerry because of his gay marriage stance.

I would, however, urge you to give money to a politician that is on board with the Kerry for Kids campaign though. Donating to the charity, to me at least, is treating the symptoms rather than finding a cure.

Just my humble take on it, and you may absolutely do as you please.

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

7. Yeah, that's a good idea. I may do that.

:hi:

[davidinalameda]

10. the charities are on the front line

giving to them makes much more sense than giving to any politician

treating the symptoms is sometimes all you can do especially when you have an administration and Congress that rather spend billions on killing in Iraq

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

11. Uhm, isn't donating to politicians working to get Bush and Company out?

:shrug:

[davidinalameda]

12. is this about working to get Bush out

or is this about helping kids

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

13. don't know what the metaphor is, but it's about $$$ for "Kerry for Kids"

In other words, give money to Kerry's group so that he can help kids but not without getting the good PR as a preliminary move to get people talking about Kerry in a good way. Sorry if I'm being a little cynical; that's just how I feel.

The thing is, it's not like thousands of organizations don't already exist to help kids - I can't give enough to such organizations, IMO.

But giving to "Kerry for Kids" is a twofer that I don't want to support.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

14. It's both.

Or do you suggest that we can help kids by keeping Bush in office?

[thrift_store_angel]

15. Bush is in office until his term expires.....

and then he can't be re-elected. As for any other republican candidate, Kerry is NOT the only alternative. There are plenty of ways to help kids without helping Kerry and there are other legislators out there who support bills to help children. There are also plenty other potential candidates out there. You do not have to support Kerry to support kids or to support getting republicans out of the White House.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

16. Considering I specifically suggested donating to another politician....

It'd help if you read the posts.

[Brian_Expat]

17. Kerry's position on gay marriage HURTS kids

Both gay kids and the children of gay and lesbian parents who cannot get the same protections under the law that heterosexual parents can for their children.

Giving money to such a campaign when Kerry's got such a stance in favor of hurting kids who have gay parents seems a bit silly.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

18. Try reading my original post.

It helps to read and THEN respond.

[Brian_Expat]

20. I did

And supporting Kerry indirectly is still supporting homophobia and harming kids, not "helping" them.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

21. Okay, so we should abandon everything Kerry stands for?

And everyone that might be allied with Kerry for any reason?

That's by far the most ridiculous and insane thing I've ever heard.

[Brian_Expat]

22. We should abandon any group with his name on it, yes. n/t

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

24. Please explain. That makes no logical sense.

Why would giving a donation to, say, Jim McGovern, a Democrat from Massachusetts that's almost assuredly on board with Kerry for Kids and voted against the anti-gay marriage amendment, be supporting homophobia in any way?

[davidinalameda]

26. good for McGovern

but I still don't have to give a penny to Kerry

and I don't want to give a penny to Kerry

Kerry can attach his name to any cause he wants and I still wouldn't give him a penny until he comes out publically and says he was wrong about gay marriage

which he is

and this isn't just some issue, this is about basic civil rights for gay and lesbian Americans

if he doesn't support us, why should we and our allies support him

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

27. I'm not asking you to give to Kerry.

I'm asking you to give to McGovern and others that have signed onto the campaign to get health care for children.

[davidinalameda]

29. as long as it reads Kerry for Kids

I'm not giving a penny

and yes, I know, I'm letting my "hatred" for Kerry blind me to the wonderful work that he's doing

blah blah blah

:boring:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

30. But... your donations aren't going to a "Kerry for Kids" fund.

It's going to Congressman James P. McGovern or whatever other politician you choose supports children's health care. I'm not sure where the disconnect on that one is, but it's fairly immature that you're not going to help anyone who supports children's health care simply because one man pissed you off.

[davidinalameda]

31. oh okay

first of all, you think that children's health is an issue with me

you know what, it's not

there are plenty of fine people like yourself which have take the issue on for their own

I'm going to be selfish here and worry about my civil rights which the good Senator and too many others like him seem to think that I don't deserve as an American

and if that makes me immature, oh well

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

32. Yes, that's incredibly immature.

This has very little to do with Kerry himself. It has everything to do with ensuring that children (aka people whom have absolutely no way of providing for themselves) have adequate medical care. If you want to throw your temper tantrum, that's fine, but I best never see you complaining on these boards when you feel people aren't giving enough support to your primary issues.

[Brian_Expat]

33. Ahhh, the homophobe comes out

I best never see you complaining on these boards when you feel people aren't giving enough support to your primary issues

Sweetie-pie, everyone on this board is willing to help kids.

We're just not willing to give cash to a Kerry-branded route for doing so.

If that troubles you, I suggest you don't demand support for your "primary issues" from a group of people who you and your ilk joyfully abandoned to the wolves last year in order to "win."

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

35. Ahh, the convenient hatemonger label comes out!

Sweetie-pie, it'd help if you read. I've asked you to do that several times now and you still seem incapable of it. So let me put it into large words for you:

I AM NOT ASKING YOU TO GIVE TO JOHN KERRY!!

dwickham has made it perfectly clear that he will not donate to ANYONE who supports the Kerry for Kids campaign. Not to Jim McGovern, who voted against the anti-gay-marriage amendment and not to anyone else who backs this plan. I'm sorry, but I fail to see support for children's health care when one makes these claims. If you can point out where that support in dwickham's comments are, please, do so. It does not exist.

And I do expect a full apology for your hateful comments. You should only brandish the "homophobe" label when it needs to be made. I fully understand not supporting John Kerry, and have said many times in this thread alone that I don't blame you one bit if you don't want to support him. That's never been my issue. Making it a point to spurn every single one of Kerry's issues and making it a point to not support anyone who would support any one of Kerry's issues is extremely immature. That's taking a temper tantrum to a new level, and calling someone out on it is far from being homophobic. Further, demanding support from everyone else when you make it a point to announce your non-support of someone else's very important issue would be, by definition, hypocrisy. And I will call you two out on that if/when the time should come. That is not the same as saying I'm going to withold my support for the gay community. Unlike you, I'm not going to wage war against an entire group just because two of its members are jerks.

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

19. I didn't think of it that way, but you're right, it does.

I think people generally just assume because homophobia has always been the accepted status quo, nobody could possibly be harmed by it.

Vash, I don't think the responder was saying you are wrong, but was just trying to expand upon possible objections, that's all. :hi:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

23. Judging by his response, I don't think that's the case.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=13279&mesg_id=13319

I don't know how else to take that other than saying that backing anyone who supports any of Kerry's initiatives is being homophobic themselves, even if it has absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality. Why would giving a donation to, say, Jim McGovern, a Democrat from Massachusetts that's almost assuredly on board with Kerry for Kids and voted against the anti-gay marriage amendment, be supporting homophobia in any way?

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

25. Personally, I don't think it would, I should let him respond on his own.

I said what I had to say to the rep on the phone; I kind of vibed that he knew what I was talking about - I guess I may not be the only one unhappy with his position. I am not going to give money directly to any Kerry initiative until he retracts his statement that a gay marriage platform in the MA dem platform is "wrong". However, I WOULD give money to McGovern to then give to "Kerry for Kids."

What's the difference? The difference is that then Kerry's people know that gays and lesbians are unhappy with his unnecessary statement, and while he gets the money he needs, he has to get it by asking favors of others (like McGovern) or he has to go to a middleman, whereas BEFORE, I would certainly have considered giving $110 directly to "Kerry for Kids". In the past, in more flush times, I would not have thought twice about such a donation, though I always had my "pet" charities. In light of his statement, however, I'll decline.

Though as you suggested, I will consider it through Hillary or maybe McGovern. Actually, that's not a bad idea.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

28. That's all I ask really.

I don't blame you one bit for not supporting Kerry.

But at least support someone else who's specifically fighting for children's health care. There's no need to shoot down the cause because of one person associated with it.

[getmeouttahere]

2. This to me is why....

Kerry lost the election(yes, I know it was stolen, but trying to make a point here). Too centrist. Give the people an alternative to BushCo. Co-opt Kucinich's ideas, whatever it takes.

By the way, is la deuxieme voiture an idiom?

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

4. Yeah, it means "second car" as in the Paris metro,

i.e., sort of "one-off" from the first car, or queer. urban legend holds that it's the cruisy car. Read it in a book, so it must be true. LOL

[getmeouttahere]

9. I knew the translation....

just wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing an idiom from my previous studies.

Merci bien.

[Gunit_Sangh]

3. I got the same call

a few weeks ago. They were asking for a $110 donation. I said no way

[second edition]

5. Why do you expect any one person to agree with you 100%

of the time before you donate to a good cause? I'm also curious why you are bringing up this issue again. John Kerry has already been bashed unmercifully for his stance and opinions on this issue.

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

6. It's not just an item on a list; not life-or-death, but close enough that

if you don't support civil rights for everybody, including gays, you don't get my money.

Re: people attacking him for his position, did he retract it? If not, the criticism is deserved, and he is on record as rejecting gay marriage as a platform in the MA Dem platform despite a majority of dems supporting such a platform.

When he retracts his position, we can talk. 'Til then, he doesn't get my money.

EDIT: Oh, and I didn't just bring the topic up out of the blue - they called me this morning. It was an opportunity to voice my disappointment. And just wanted to know what other gay dems are doing in response to such initiatives.

[Brian_Expat]

34. Because I am a human being who deserves equal rights

And John Kerry doesn't think I'm a human being who deserves equal rights under the law.

So I'm not going to indulge any initiative that helps him, any more than I would help another bigot like Jesse Helms or David Duke.

[4_TN_TITANS]

8. It's a noble idea

but I seriously doubt Kerry will be able to get it through a Repub congress. He's wanting to provide health care coverage for the 11 million or so kids that don't have it. I support it but I'm not going to fund a one winged duck before it even gets off the ground.