I hope these Slavic immigrants,whose sole mission in life

[cboy4]

is making gay people miserable in the United States, and in particular Northern California, deeply appreciate the freedoms they're afforded in this country by pushing their backwards culture of gay hate and discrimination all over the place.

I personally think they should be deported, but hey, it's a free country.





ARC Student Council votes to back gay marriage ban
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By Stephen Magagnini
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Published: Wednesday, Oct. 1, 2008 - 12:00 am | Page 1B
Last Modified: Thursday, Oct. 2, 2008 - 9:59 am

In the face of passionate opposition, the American River College Student Council on Tuesday passed a controversial resolution calling for a ban on gay marriage.

By an 8-3 vote with three abstentions, the council endorsed Proposition 8, the Limit on Marriage Constitutional Amendment that would overturn the state Supreme Court's legalization of same-sex unions if passed Nov. 4.

The resolution is believed to be the first of its kind at a California college.

"It's fairly unusual for a student government to get involved in such a politicized issue that's not directly involved in education," said Linda Michalowski, Vice Chancellor for Student Services for the 110 California community colleges. "I am not aware of any other student governments that have done that."

Students who support gay marriage said they've already collected 450 signatures – enough to force a recall election of the eight council members who voted for the resolution.

If the signatures are validated, a special election would have to be held within 10 days, said Councilman Tim Richey, who led the opposition. "We are against discrimination and hatred, and we want them out of office."

American River College is the state's largest community college, with 37,500 students currently enrolled and 55,000 students annually.

Barely 300 students voted in the last student council elections. The council includes five members from the former Soviet Union, all of whom voted to endorse Proposition 8. :wtf:

Councilman Vladimir Musorivschi, 25, of Moldova said the resolution spoke for ARC's large Russian-speaking population, "mostly all of whom are Christian."

Nearly 4,000 students – 70 percent of ARC's 6,684 ESL (English as a second language) students – are of Slavic descent, said ARC spokesman Stephen Peithman. Many are religious refugees from the former U.S.S.R.

"This is not a political issue; this is our issue," Musorivschi said. "It was hard, but it was a really important step. I feel a responsibility to protect our traditional family values – we should think about our future generations."

Musorivschi said ARC's gay and lesbian students "influence us here right on campus – they do propaganda for homosexuality in front of the cafeteria."

Councilman Viktor Choban, a Romanian immigrant from Ukraine, said the vote had nothing to do with race or ethnicity.

http://www.sacbee.com/ourregion/story/1278928.html

[LeftyMom]

1. ARC tossed Vikkktor and company out on their asses.

Finally.

[cboy4]

4. Good news instead, even though they're far from finished.

I'm sure they will be making lots of noise once again during Sac Pride '09

[BolivarianHero]

2. Personally...

I also hope they get deported if they don't smarten their asses up.

[keepCAblue]

3. "It's a free country." Uhm, that is...UNLESS YOU"RE GAY

[Bobbieo]

6. Where did all the Russians come from in the Sacramento area and why?

I know they came from Russia but what areas?

[Bluenorthwest]

5. Some good Californian

Needs to be translating the newspapers and blogs of the former Soviet bloc communities. I had one read to me and I'm here to tell you, and it was easily as racist as it was homophobic. Disgusting materials, vile inflammatory bait.

[Pacifist Patriot]

12. The people of the former Soviet bloc are scrambling for identity.

Tragically, that is often done at the expense of "others" with devestating consequences. I too have had some of their literature translated for me and it is alarming to say the least.

Formerly conquered and oppressed peoples whose empire has collapsed are dealing with issues of security, identity, connectivity, etc. Not many people are aware of the pressure cooker boiling away in that part of the world.

[sui generis]

7. religious refugees being persecuted, like we would persecute the Taliban

for exercising their religious freedoms to beat women.

Yeah, traditional only counts when tradition is a value. It's not my value - I'm all about creating tradition, not following it. Mindlessly.

When they get just a tad more American they'll figure out that tradition is a cultural attribute, not a legal requirement.

[Bobbieo]

8. I graduated from ARC in '65 and went o to Sac State. I consider the two

years at ARC were some of the best of my life. I was very activly involved in student affairs and journalism.

It is too bad a group like this is able to take over the campus. Have they taken over CSU-S yet?

[NMMNG]

10. Send their bigoted asses back where they came from

How dare they ask us for asylum claiming they're being persecuted then turn right around and persecute us? Fuckers!

[LeftyMom]

9. Viktor and the rest of the usual suspects showed up at the rally at the Capital today.

So the organizers sent three ministers to talk about their perspective on equality as people of faith, and then a very Catholic ally talked about similar things focusing on the local Spanish-speaking leadership and support they have shown. She talked about how a local bishop spent what turned out to be the last night of his life at her brother's bedside as he was thought to be dying, and told her brother that god loved him and he would be going to heaven, not to worry. The bishop died the following day in a car accident and is being considered for cannonization (probably not when Ratzi finds out he didn't hate gay people, but that's not the point of the story) and how his last night on earth was such a perfect example of what Christianity was supposed to be about.

At that point, Viktor et al left. The speaker saw them walking away and said that should read the things that Jesus said more, go read the inscription on the Bishop's statue at the Cathedral a few blocks over on J, and that she'd pray for them.

Normally religiosity at rallies bugs me, but that was such a perfect counterpoint to the haters, it was brilliant.

[closeupready]

11. I agree they should be deported back to their countries.

Bunch of scumbags. :mad:

[Name removed]

13. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zenlitened]

14. Yep, some of these people are truly poisonous. Religious refugees? If only!

They need to flee from their idiotic religion and learn the true meaning of values.

[Bluebear]

15. My god do I miss the OP

[joeybee12]

16. He shows up from time to time...n/t

[racaulk]

32. So do I.

I miss him, and several others. DU is worse off without their voices here.

[lightningandsnow]

17. Not all slavic people are homophobes.

Ugh. Shame on all of you for cheering on this anti-immigrant bigotry.

Oh, I think they're assholes too. But no more so than the millions of non-immigrant WASP homophobes.

[joeybee12]

18. I re-read every post to see where you got this...

...it's nowhere here...they're booing these specific assholes, not immigrants or slavs in general...why are you so quick to defend homophobia?

[lightningandsnow]

19. Oh, I'm not defending homophobia.

You'd never say "DEPORT THEM" if these people weren't immigrants. Heck, you wouldn't say that if they were British immigrants.

You know how Audre Lorde said that the master's tools will never dismantle the master's house? By making anti-immigrant comments, you're not doing a thing to eradicate homophobia.

[mitchtv]

20. Heck, you wouldn't say that if they were British immigrants

Don't kid yourself. (although they don't run in packs, they're harder to identify) . Eradicate homphobia? impossible while Christianity exists

[MNBrewer]

30. and Islam, and Judaism, and Hinduism, and, and, and.... (religion)

[Occulus]

21. I think you need to read more about this.

Every article that appears in the Google search "Slavic immigrants +gays" is negative. I can't find any positive articles showing support for gays anywhere from this group of immigrants; if there are any Slavic immigrants supportive of gays in the US, they are a vanishingly small and virtually meaningless minority.

Everything I have ever read about the topic over the last few years has led me to conclude that Russian Orthodox Christians, in particular those who are immigrants from Slavic nations, are several times more virulently (and violently) antigay than the Phelps clan would ever think to be. These people have been known to "gang up" and, in the case of Satendar Singh, send their wives and children home before gaybashing someone to death (as in, it's not a spur-of-the-moment thing; they do this with prior intent).

The Southern Poverty Law Center has published a report to this effect. Please read this; the problem is very real.

edited to add this snip from the SPLC report linked above:

A growing and ferocious anti-gay movement in the Sacramento Valley is centered among Russian- and Ukrainian-speaking immigrants. Many of them are members of an international extremist anti-gay movement whose adherents call themselves the Watchmen on the Walls. In Latvia, the Watchmen are popular among Christian fundamentalists and ethnic Russians, and are known for presiding over anti-gay rallies where gays and lesbians are pelted with bags of excrement. In the Western U.S., the Watchmen have a following among Russian-speaking evangelicals from the former Soviet Union. Members are increasingly active in several cities long known as gay-friendly enclaves, including Sacramento, Seattle and Portland, Ore.

Vlad Kusakin, the host of a Russian-language anti-gay radio show in Sacramento and the publisher of a Russian-language newspaper in Seattle, told The Seattle Times in January that God has "made an injection" of high numbers of anti-gay Slavic evangelicals into traditionally liberal West Coast cities. "In those places where the disease is progressing, God made a divine penicillin," Kusakin said.

This isn't anti-immigrant in the sense of disliking immigrants. This is specifically "anti Slavic Russian Orthodox Christian immigrant", because so many (and I would say "approaching all", for my own safety's sake) of them are all too willing to beat up and kill gay people. It's something that is endemic among and specific to this particular population of immigrants, and it needs to be dealt with before it becomes even more deadly to homosexuals in the US.

[marginlized]

22. Not EO, this is SB at work

Occulus, you need to cool your jets here. Please show me the evidence that ties Vlad Kusakin and this Watchmen to any Eastern Orthodox churches. If you read a bit more, I think you’ll find that they are exclusively American Southern Baptist funded and operated.

So it's not immigrants at fault. It's the usual suspects using immigrants.

[Occulus]

23. There were two comprehensive and well-linked Kos diaries that have the info you're looking for

here and here. These diaries talk about "Joel's Army", but also mention the Watchmen group in depth. What I'm consistently finding in the articles I'm Googling is that the Slavic immigrant dominionist types that came to the US were the ones who approached the Southern Baptists types, and not the other way around as you are suggesting.

"If you read a bit more, I think you’ll find that they are exclusively American Southern Baptist funded and operated."

I have found no truth in that statement, and I've tried to find it. None of the articles and writeups on this group I've found mention American Southern Baptists, except in passing as an "also peripherally involved". In fact, Southern Baptists are rarely even mentioned in connection with the Watchmen, Kusakin, or homophobic Eastern Orthodox immigrants. This is an imported group acting in addition to or in some cases alongside American Southern Baptist organizations, but I'm finding no information at all supporting the suggestion that American Southern Baptists are in fact behind the Watchmen on the Walls, or in any way even part of the group's "base".

While they certainly share the same goals, the two groups seem to be very distinct and operate independent of each other.

[marginlized]

26. "neopentecostalist dominionists" = American Evangelical

Occulus, we’re on the same page, so I’m not seeking contention here. But, the first sentence of the first link you offer calls the Watchmen “a neopentecostalist dominionist” group. Just a quick google of neopentecostal dominionist brings up a whole bunch of the usual suspects (all American) and nothing regarding the Easter Orthodox church. Halfway down that page KOS’ translation of the Watchmen site accuses the Eastern Orthodox of child abuse.

Your second link states specifically, third paragraph: “I document how ‘an orchard’ was planted by American Dominionist groups to produce bitter fruit indeed”.


edited subject. It did say "usually SB" instead of "Evangelical"

[LeftyMom]

27. Not SB for the most part.

Most of the churches have close ties to the Assemblies of God and other Pentecostal denominations which funded and nurtured the home churches back in Europe, but are not officially affiliated and have some fairly unique beliefs and emphases. Some are Holiness churches, notable for an emphasis on the need for continual deliverance from demon infestation even among the saved, and a lack of belief in the trinity.

[marginlized]

31. No Trinity?!! OMG!!

and they call themselves Cirschins!

[lightningandsnow]

24. This is a small portion of the group that participated in Day of Silence 2008 at my high school.

Several of them are Slavic immigrants.

There are a scary amount of crazy gay bashing fundamentalist Christians out there, yes.

But the fail is strong on this one.

[Occulus]

25. Tell it to the SPLC

I didn't write their report, and I trust the SPLC implicitly on the topic of hate crimes. Extreme homophobia among Slavic immigrants specifically is, as I have shown, a very well-documented issue that occurs not only here in the US but overseas as well.

[closeupready]

29. You don't need to play mom here. Most of us understand what generalizations are.

That's what the OP was doing.

[Jamastiene]

33. Of course, not ALL Slavic immigrants are homophobes.

The ones in the picture obviously are though. I don't think it gets much more homophobic than holding up a giant yellow pro Prop 8 banner. So, those certain ones in the picture DO deserve scorn.

I know the OP. He is NOT an anti-immigrant bigot. Context matters in this case. Chill the fuck out.

[closeupready]

28. I say, yes, it is a free country, and I think they should be deported, too.

Homophobic immmigrants are NOT the kind of people we want coming here, now or ever.