Vatican Gay Witch Hunt Begins

[TechBear_Seattle]

Vatican Gay Witch Hunt Begins
by Beth Shapiro 365Gay.com New York Bureau

Posted: September 15, 2005 5:00 pm ET

(New York City) The Vatican has begun its investigation of America's 229 seminaries to root out gays.

The threat that the Catholic Church was embarking on a pogrom against gay clergy first arose last month when new regulations submitted to Pope Benedict for his approval suggested that gays not be considered for the priesthood. (story)

The Church is attempting to lay blame on gays for the child abuse scandal that has rocked Roman Catholicism. Vatican investigators arrived in the US this week to gauge the scale of the scandal and to determine how many gay priests are in the priesthood.

The article continues at http://www.365gay.com/newscon05/09/091505catholic.htm

With respect to the Catholics in this forum, I have to say this is typical of Rome and has been for many centuries. Rather than actually deal with problems, it is much easier to just blame some outside group and start an Inquisition.

[forintegrity]

1. They ought to root out all the celibate priests, too!

that's getting to the source of the problem. I mean really, how normal is it to give up God's gift of sexuality?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

3. until the 500s, they all had families

But the church wanted their earthly goods upon passing, and the best way to do that was to ban marriage or families.

This is nothing but a smoke screen. "Ooooh, let's hide our serious pedophile problem by attacking gays. ( a target that most bushites would approve of, if they didn't seek Gannon's services)

[TechBear_Seattle]

7. To be (somewhat) fair...

Antifaschits wrote: But the church wanted their earthly goods upon passing, and the best way to do that was to ban marriage or families.

To be somewhat fair, you need to realize that during the 5th century, bishoprics in particular were amassing VAST wealth, beyond even what the richest of the aristocratic Roman senatorial families held at the height of the Empire. A few wise heads realized that allowing bishops to create dynasties would undermine every remaining value that the Church was trying to promote. As a result, one of the great Councils (I don't recall which one... Ephesus?) issued a canon that required all bishops to be unmarried and that made all property acquired by a bishop during his tenure as bishop the property of the Church. Again, the idea was to prevent people from using clerical office as a way to amass wealth and power for their families.

In Eastern Christianity (Orthodox), the rule now is that clergy may not get married after ordination as a deacon, but may be ordained as deacon and priest if they are already married. Bishops, however, must be single, either because they have never married or because their wife has died. Unmarried persons, clergy or not, are of course expected to be celebate. It is only Western Christianity (Roman Catholic) that has insisted on celibacy as a prerequisite for ordination, and then not until (officially, at least) the Council of Trent a thousand years latter.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

8. you said it better than I, but the same theory applies - money

power, money and power, power and money.

The soviets had infamous 5 yr plans.
The germans had 50 yr plans
the Church has 50 yrs plans thru the jesuits and 100 yr plans globally, within the vatican.
It is not a religious institution, it is a nation, plotting and planning to regain control.

[TankLV]

14. Not quite true. It's only the ROMAN rite of the Catholic Church that

prohibits marriage.

Ukrainian Catholics, Greek Catholics, and others, Catholics under the Pope himself - not "orthodox", are allowed to marry and are NOT required to remain celibate.

Our Ukrainian Catholic Church has had about 8 priests, all of which were married and had/have children. Our first priest lost his only children - 2 sons - in WWII. Our present priest has 2 beautiful young girls.

It is only the ROMAN RITE that has this ridiculous rule.

[mitchtv]

19. Plus, the Romans accept married Episcopal priests

who convert. There is a handful in the US. Totally unfair.

[TechBear_Seattle]

21. Correction, I think

It is my understanding that Orthodox Catholics -- groups that are obedient to Rome but use one of the rites of the Orthodox Church rather than the traditional Catholic Mass -- are still required to obey canon law as far as possible. Canon law does not permit married men to receive holy orders, period.

However, canon law does allow for men who have been ordained by the imposition of hands by a bishop within the Apostolic Succession to "confess" his "doctrinal errors and heresy" and seek "recommunion" with the "One True Church," even if they are married. Once part of the Catholic Church, they may not be ordained to a higher position until they are once again single; an Orthodox deacon who comes to Rome will not be ordained a priest until and unless his wife dies. Likewise an Orthodox priest may not become a bishop (which is the same rule as the Orthodox churches, so no problem.) Clergy aspirants in Orthodox Catholic churches must be single and must vow celebacy if they wish to be ordained to any order of clergy.

Granted, my information is decades out of date. I can't speak for the current state of canon law, but given the traditionalist nature of the previous and current pontiff, I don't think things have changed a great deal.

[Bumblebee]

2. are they going to work undercover?

how else will they know? :)

[forintegrity]

4. Excellent point!!! LOL!

:rofl:

[Southpaw Bookworm]

10. Remember that scene in "History of the World Part I"

Where the Romans are trying to find the imposter among the eunuchs by having a belly dancer shake her tail in front of each man? They'll do the same thing with a male, and wait for the boner to arise.

[wiley]

5. Conservatives discount pedophiles and blame homosexuals

So says today's NY Times article. The Catholic Church cares about it's about money and legally protecting themselves. Any religion that saves parts of human bodies with the hope they have healing powers is just a little weird.

The questions that they are asking are beyond a violation of privacy. They are indecent.

There will be very, very few Catholic priests left if the priests rat on each other.

It just ignores the serious problem with pedophilia that appears to inflict self identified heterosexuals more than homosexuals.


This is so sick.

[TankLV]

15. 99% of pedophiles are HETEROSEXUAL.

Source: Nevada State Department of Child Welfare.

I learned this astonishing fact when I went to lengthy classes to become a foster parent/adoptive parent.

Nevada ENCOURAGES gay persons to become foster and adoptive parents.

Says we make some of the best parents.

EVERYONE in these classes I met was very supportive - either that, or they were really good at hiding their bigotry!

[TaleWgnDg]

24. It's true, clinically and statistically, that pedophiles . . .

.
It's true, clinically and statistically, that pedophiles (those who sexually abuse prepubescent children) are not homosexual, and that a large number of pedophilia is perpetrated upon children by relatives. Pedophilia is clinically diagnosed to be a sexual attraction to prepubescent (generally 13 yrs or younger) children; and it is said that pedophilia is a sexual orientation within itself, albeit a mental disorder/illness.

I, as a lawyer, have had to proffer expert medical testimony of this very subject as well as cross-exam these experts.

Pedophilia is a mental disorder and, as such, is listed in the American Psychiatric Association's DSM-IV as 302.2 a sexual mental disorder.

The State of Nevada is not, therefore, fabricating this matter.
.

[melody]

6. Time for sane Catholics to schism, I guess

Pope Monstrous was bound to do crap like this.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

11. That time was a while back

For anyone who cared about women's rights, or who didn't approve of the Church blaming molested 6-year-olds for "acting seductively."

[melody]

12. Well, if not then, then now surely n/t

[Not Me]

20. Actually, it is happening...

see http://www.spirituschristi.org

[kweerwolf]

9. How about a compromise solution?

Keep the priesthood celibate. But if a priest feels the need for a little tension-relieving fornication now and then, go back to the practice of selling indulgences. One indulgence would be worth one night of passion with the consensual, adult partner of the priest's choosing. Not only would that make the priests a happier, less prone to temptation bunch, but it would generate more money for the church to offset all those members who are withholding their donations in protest of the Vatican's handling of the pedophile scandal.

(I have to admit that the title of this thread made me visualize a bunch of robed monks tying Paul Lynde's "Uncle Arthur" character from "Bewitched" to a stake and lighting a fire while he screams, "You bitches! I look better in those robes than you ever will!") :evilgrin:

[bluedawg12]

13. conservatives equate pedophiles with homosexuals

they argue loudly that pedophiles are gay, not admitting that the majority of pedophiles commit male on female crimes.

Why would any gay want to be a priest? Why join a club that hates you?

[TankLV]

16. See my post #15 above.

The OVERWHELMING majority of pedophiles are HETEROSEXUAL.

[Boomer]

18. Catholicism is more than a choice

It's a cultural identity that is handed to you at birth. And becoming a priest or nun is one way that gay Catholics have managed to maintain their cultural ties and remain within their families and communities. Otherwise, there's all that pressure to get married and procreate lots of little Catholics.

My mother wasn't even gay and she still struggled for years before finally breaking away from the church (and becoming a Unitarian). It was an act of tremendous rebellion for a respectable, upper-middle class Mexican woman. And she saved me a lifetime of misery since being a gay Unitarian is wholly compatible with that church's ideology and I never had a qualm about religious issues when I came out.

But gay Catholics must often abandon their entire past to come out -- leaving their family and their community when they leave the churgh. That's not an easy decision for someone who otherwise identifies very strongly with that upbringing.

[bluedawg12]

17. Most disgusting screaming harpie on TV- Bill D.

This joker went on TV screaming homophobic crap, when the pedophile scandal broke out in his native Boston.

Keep an eye on this wacko. he has appeared on TV as a pudit Ho, especially on MSNBC wit Tweetypie-mathews and Pat Pukeanon.

google the sow


http://www.postgazette.com/pg/04353/428781.stm

A Catholic crusader's pious punch

> (Bill) Donohue was asked to explain why Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" wasn't getting big buzz for an Academy Award.

He said this: "Hollywood is controlled by secular Jews who hate Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular. It's not a secret, OK? And I'm not afraid to say it. That's why they hate this movie. It's about Jesus Christ, and it's about truth. It's about the messiah.

"Hollywood likes anal sex. They like to see the public square without nativity scenes. I like families. I like children. They like abortions. I believe in traditional values and restraint. They believe in libertinism. We have nothing in common.<

[indigo32]

22. This just makes me ill

I loathe the idea of pedophilia so much, that whenever I here it associated with homosexuality I just get furious, and that is exactly what this is. Why don't they concentrate on actually SOLVING the problem.

[TaleWgnDg]

23. OMG!!! What will . . .

.

OMG!!! What will Father Guido Sarducci do?



Father Guido Sarducci RAAWWWKS!!

.