Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Cheers to Prism! Thank you for this:

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » GLBT Donate to DU
 
WillParkinson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 07:27 AM
Original message
Cheers to Prism! Thank you for this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=437x579

I hope it leads to meaningful dialog. Thank you so much for doing this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
racaulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. Fantastic post, Prism!
You rock my socks off. Thank you!!!

:applause:

And thank you, WillParkinson, for bringing this thread to our attention. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. That OP was very direct
The questions were very clear. To the point.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
3. KNR I'm tired of the I'm not homophobic...BUT...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thank you, Prism. Thank you, sir. Recommended.
Thank you for putting into words what I...what many of us feel.

There was a time when I thought it was just me. That I was the only one who felt GLBT people weren't really welcome here. The not so subtle homophobia at times. I saw this during the Donnie McClurkin thing. Rick Warren. The truly humiliating, nasty "poutrage" stuff from alledged progressives when we pissed about various things that were, simply, wrong.

I hope Prism's question does begin a dialogue.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. Does it help to be able to say "I told you so?"
I had hoped that the signals you read so clearly were a smoke screen, a diversionary tactic. My hope was misplaced. Although I didn't participate in the McClurkin/Warren firestorm, I must offer my mea culpa for believing what I wanted to believe at the time.

Sorry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
5. Thank you, Prism!

Proud member of the pearl-clutching, tutu-wearing, professional left pink fringe element infesting DU.

And NO, it isn't just one song and a two minute prayer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
foxfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. Bravo, Prism!
:applause:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
8. Excellent post!
Thank you, Prism.

:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HillWilliam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. I've only one suggestion
FWIW. DU has become a home to me and I'd like it to remain so. Here goes nuttin'.

If we're going to open a dialog, let's try a slightly different approach since no preceding approach seems to have worked to satisfaction. For a first go at a round table, could we have some volunteer, non-mod, "walking-around" LGBTQI DUers participate along side the mods. There is still a scary, bitter taste where a lot of GLBTQI DUers suddenly vanished without explanation. It feels as if we lost a lot from our ranks and a lot of the attackers were allowed to stay and stay and stay.

I didn't say that was actually the case -- I'm stating that it feels that way. I was a pretty new poster at the time and it scared hell out of me. To some extent, it still does. I'm still new and still feeling my way around, have no real street cred, but my heart is (at least I hope) in the right place.

Bottom line, perception is everything.

In a time where LGBTQI people have had so many disappointments and setbacks, yes, our nerves are raw. But we still know what a slur, an attack, a lie, or a callout is when it's used against us. Lord knows we hear enough of them every day and we've heard every variation there is. We know what dog-whistles are used against us.

Perhaps for the first go (or two) at dialog, it would be nice to have a few non-mod representatives from our community as advisors to the council of moderators, to give input, to assist in defining why we see certain modes of speech (or writing) as offensive. We can't fault the mods for what they don't know.

For example: since Wednesday morning, DU has been peppered with "blame Teh Gay" threads (most quoting the same deeply-flawed poll) that smack of exactly the same sort of divisive bigotry that went down after Prop H8 when DU was peppered with "blame the black people" threads. I hated those threads and I hate these. Doubly so, because I personally know of no GLBTQI people who ran out and voted repub just to spite the administration and I sort-of doubt anyone else does, either. Yet, before the election we were being reminded of how ungrateful we were all along and now it feels as if certain members are intent on purposefully goading us or making us scapegoats. That simply is not acceptable. In the best of all possible worlds, I'd personally like to see those threads deemed divisive and removed. Nearly invariably, those posts become swiss cheese because they were designed to inflame.

That's just view from my seat. YMMV.

There are certain modes and frames of speech that are unacceptable under any circumstances within threads to us that might now just-barely fly under the rules. That isn't to say that the rules are wrong. I believe it's a matter of educating the mods. Again, we can't fault the mods for what they don't know. It's just as unfair of us to assume "everybody knows" something is unacceptable if we don't establish the ground rules at the outset. We aren't 100% sure 100% of the time.

Case in point: the word "queer". Younger people wear it as a badge. I find it extremely offensive, as bad as the En-Word. But I understand the younger folks' end of the GLBTQI culture and by-and-large they're respectful of mine. At best, it's an en famille term, the usage of which isn't ever fair game, exactly the same way the En-Word isn't ever fair game. Mods need to understand we're a varied, non-monolithic group -- but when a hetero person uses the word "queer" in direct address, it's seldom a good thing. Context is important and so are the addressee's feelings. That's why I think for a first-round some non-mod, average-poster input just might be useful.

In this forum there is a population that is already sore and hurting. We've had so many setbacks and frustrations. DU is supposed to be a safe place. Too often for us it most certainly is not. It's especially offensive when people from outside our community come into our forum and preach to us on how to behave, think, act, etc. Any other group would be bitterly offended. For starts, at least that much of a yardstick should apply.

Prism's suggestion is most excellent. Skinner's rejoinder that this is a discussion that he would like to have gladdens me. I believe him to be a man of his word. There is much work to be done and much healing to accomplish.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
foxfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Good info/good suggestions.
Thanks, HillWilliam! :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
10. K&R
Prism rocks!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Duncan Grant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
11. Again, I'm going to ask Admin to pursue LGBT cultural competency training.
With all the valuable resources in DC, it seems to me that at least 1 person responsible for DU's growth and continuity could attend a few LGBT cultural competency courses, lectures, seminars, etc.

Ideas about power, privilege, entitlement, hegemony and heteronormative theory would help Admin "ally" with DU's LGBTQI community in a meaningful way. This information must also find its way into moderator training.

I hope other LGBT members will add their own resources and thoughts to this thread.


How to be an Ally if you are a Person of Privilege
Francis E. Kendall, Ph.D.

One way to work for social justice is as an ally. The gay and lesbian community realized ten or fifteen
years ago that, without the help of straight allies, gays and lesbians don’t have the clout needed to fight
heterosexist and homophobic legislation. Gradually the call for allies has spread to other communities in
which discrimination is systemic.

What it means to be an ally varies greatly from person to person. For some, it means building a
relationship of love and trust with another; for others, it means intentionally putting one’s self in
harm’s way so that another person remains safe.
Each type of alliance has its own parameters,
responsibilities, and degrees of risk. For example, being an ally to someone who is in a less privileged
position than I am requires different work than is necessary if the person has privileges like mine. There
are also a variety of styles that an ally can use. Some of us are bold and audacious, others are more
reserved. The common bond is that we align ourselves with a person or people in such a way that we
“have their backs.”

Being an ally is integral to my work for social justice: I align myself with an individual or group for
a common cause or purpose.
When I use the term “ally,” I am not talking about love or friendship,
although I grow to love many of the people with whom I align myself. I even see myself as an ally of
people whom I don’t know; individuals who are members of groups with which I align myself as a matter
of principle.

Those of us who have been granted privileges based purely on who we are when born (as white, as male,
as straight, and so forth) often feel that either we want to give our privileges back, which we can’t really
do, or we want to use them to improve the experiences of those who don’t have our access to power and
resources. One of the most effective ways to use our privilege is to become an ally of those on the
other side of the privilege seesaw. This type of alliance requires a great deal of self-examination on
our part as well as the willingness to go against the people who share our privilege status and with
whom we are expected to group ourselves.


(Note: In the following descriptions of ally behavior, the governmental term “target groups” refers to
those who are at greatest risk of being targeted for discrimination, e.g., people of color, women, gays and
lesbians, people with disabilities, and so on.)


1. Allies work continuously to develop an understanding of the person and institutional experiences of
the person or people with whom they are aligning themselves. If the ally is a member of a privileged
group, it is essential that he or she also strives for clarity about the impact of privileges on his or her
life.

2. Allies choose to align themselves publicly and privately with members of target groups and respond to
their needs. This may mean breaking assumed allegiances with those who have the same privileges as
you. It is important not to underestimate the consequences of breaking these agreements and to break
them in ways that will be most useful to the person or group with whom you are aligning yourself.

3. Allies believe that it is in their interest to be allies and are able to talk about why this is the case.
Talking clearly about having is an important educational tool for others with the same privileges.

4. Allies are committed to the never-ending personal growth required to be genuinely supportive. If both
people are without privilege it means coming to grips with the ways that internalized oppression
affects you. If you are privileged, uprooting long-held beliefs about the way that the world works
will probably be necessary.

5. Allies are able to articulate how various patterns of oppression have served to keep them in privileged
positions or to withhold opportunities they might otherwise have. For many of us, this means
exploring and owning our dual roles as oppressor and oppressed, as uncomfortable as that might be.

6. Allies expect to make some mistakes but do not use that as an excuse for inaction. As a person with
privilege, it is important to study and to talk about how your privilege acts as both a shield and
blinders for you. Of necessity, those without privileges in a certain area know more about the specific
examples of privilege than those who are privileged.

7. Allies know that those on each side of an alliance hold responsibility for their own changes, whether
or not people on the other side choose to respond or to thank them. They are also clear that they are
doing this work for themselves, not to “take care of” the other.

8. Allies know that, in the most empowered and genuine ally relationships, the persons of privilege
initiate the change toward personal, institutional, and societal justice and equality.

9. Allies promote a sense of inclusiveness and justice in the organization, and hold greater responsibility
for seeing changes throughout their conclusions.

10. Allies with privilege are responsible for taking the lead in changing the organization, helping to create
an environment that is hospitable for all.

11. Allies are able to laugh at themselves as they make mistakes and at the real, but absurd, systems of
supremacy in which we all live. As many oppressed people know, humor is a method of survival.
Those with privilege must be very careful not to assume that we can join in the humor of those in a
target group with whom we are in alliance.

12. Allies understand that emotional safety is not a realistic expectation if we take our alliance seriously.
For those with privilege, the goal is to “become comfortable with the uncomfortable and
uncomfortable with the too-comfortable” and to act to alter the too-comfortable.

13. Allies know the consequences of not being clear about the other’s experience. Some of these are:
• Lack of trust
• Lack of authentic relationships
• Lack of foundation for coalition

For allies with privilege, the consequences of being unclear are even greater. Because our behaviors are
rooted in privilege, those who are in our group give greater credence to our actions than they might if we
were members of groups without privilege.
Part of our task is to be models and educators for those
like us.

Link to .pdf


See also: http://uppitybrownwoman.wordpress.com/2008/09/15/how-to-be-an-ally/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
foxfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Thank you, Duncan Grant.
This is a helpful resource!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. That is awesome.
I hope you don't mind if I cross post that elsewhere. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Duncan this is fabulous!
Thank you. It is very helpful. :hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
37. That's a great idea. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rhythm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
15. Thank you, Prism... i'll look forward to seeing where this goes.
:hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
17. Prism!
I hope this brings meaningful dialog as well. It is needed badly. I am anxious for something to happen that will bring more understanding and support.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Prism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
18. Aw, thanks guys!
Sorry I didn't catch this until now. I'm really getting unexpectedly slammed at work and am just capturing posting moments here and there.

I really hope this dialogue happens, and I hope when it does we'll all be able to put our views and experiences forward as plainly as possible. A lot has definitely gone on on DU for many LGBT posters, and I think/hope this will be our opportunity to get people to understand where we're coming from, how various factors and behaviors shape our perceptions and feelings, and highlight things that might be glaring to us but may go unnoticed to those who haven't experienced them for themselves.

A learning dialogue, for everyone involved. And hopefully, we'll learn a bit more about how admins/mods view and act on things related to our issues.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
20. I sometimes feel intimidated by the subtle & not subtle anti-gay bias
Edited on Sun Nov-07-10 02:09 PM by Mimosa
I think there should be more (if there are even any) LGBT mods on DU in all forums.

It seems to me proportionately more LGBT than straight DUers get banned from D.U.

And we can't ask why.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
muffin1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
21. Monday morning kick!
Beautiful post. I hope it helps, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
22. kick -- adding my thanks to prism. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-10 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
24. Kick. Anything new on this?
>>>>So, when DU slows down a bit and everyone can settle in for a calm, unhurried discussion is the best possible course.>>>>>


Outside of a morgue on New Year's Eve..... I can't think of a better place or a "slower" time , than right now, right here.

DU appears to have "fallen". The question: :"Can it get UP"?


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 05:20 AM
Response to Original message
25. Reminder bump!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. It is definitely time for us to have this conversation,
judging from the presence of a blatant homobashing thread in GD: P that he been running for a couple of days now.

At least we are the Loud Left now, rather than whining pony-demanders who never loved Him anyway, so I guess that is kind of a step up, but the fact that no one in authority sees anything objectionable about that thread means that we definitely need to have that conversation soon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
27. well how does it start?
Kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HillWilliam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
28. Kick again n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pgodbold Donating Member (953 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
29. Hugs. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
30. Kick it up!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
31. Excellent. Once again proving how Prism is an invaluable member of DU and the GLBT community here.
I spend more time in LBN and GD than in GLBT, but I used to spend more time in GLBT. Then suddenly, it got real quiet, and since I'm not really in anyone's in-group, I never realized anything had happened; I figured it out in bits and pieces, though. :mad:

Personally, I would also like to know how Skinner or the mods can POSSIBLY justify banning 12 GLBT members in a 24-hour period. That is TERRIBLE. :mad: My honest opinion!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
32. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-10 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
33. Last date on the linked thread is Nov. 8.
We are now at Dec. 21.

When exactly is this "meaningful dialog" going to commence?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. from your keyboard to Skinner's inbox
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MNBrewer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Would it do any good, anyway?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. it never hurts to try
but you can only try so many times
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. I am wondering the very same thing
I think we should wait out the holiday season but in early Jan we need to be seeing dialogue.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Duncan Grant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 03:29 AM
Response to Original message
39. It is now January 15th.
Is it time to start posting in ATA about this?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. After the holidays, dude.
And.... having read some of the exchanges in that forum... I gotta tell ya: I wouldn't get my hopes up too high.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. which holidays?
Mother's Day? 4th of July?

Thanksgiving?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. That's it. Mock everything that we hold dear.
Everything that's good and wholesome and *decent*.

I'm speaking... of course..... of NEXT New Years Day. "After the holidays." Get it?

Mister Smart Guy.

Why, i gotta good mind to.........
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. I was going to say Arbor Day
but I didn't want the tree huggers after me
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HillWilliam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. I've been kinda waiting and wondering
Our concerns are not some subject that has "just blown over" or will.

Kicking again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 06:20 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » GLBT Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC