(United Nations) Countries vote to accept execution of gays

[Omaha Steve]

http://news.pinkpaper.com/NewsStory/4319/18/11/2010/countries-vote-to-accept-execution-of-gays.aspx

The United Nations has removed a plea for lesbians, gays and bisexuals not to be executed in a narrow vote.

Tris Reid-Smith
news.PinkPaper.com

18 November 2010

The United Nations has removed a plea for lesbians, gays and bisexuals not to be executed in a narrow vote.

For the last 10 years sexual orientation has been included in a list of discriminatory grounds for executions – gay rights activists say the vote to remove that listing is “dangerous and disturbing.”

The UN resolution urges countries to protect the right to life of all people, calling on them to investigate killings based on discriminatory grounds. Sexual orientation was previously listed as one of these forms of discrimination, alongside ethnicity, religious belief and linguistic minorities.

Others protected by the resolution were human rights defenders (like journalists, lawyers and demonstrators), street children and members of indigenous communities.

But now sexual orientation has been taken out of the list. The amendment was supported by Benin in Africa on behalf of the African Group in the UN General Assembly. It passed on a narrow vote of 79 for, 70 against , 17 abstentions and 26 absent.

Some of those voting to remove sexual orientation were countries where gays are known to be or thought to be executed or summarily killed including Iran, Nigeria, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Iraq.

The UK, US, Australia, New Zealand and many European countries voted in favour of gays.

Cary Alan Johnson, Executive Director of the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission, said: “This vote is a dangerous and disturbing development. It essentially removes the important recognition of the particular vulnerability faced by lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people – a recognition that is crucial at a time when 76 countries around the world criminalise homosexuality, five consider it a capital crime and countries like Uganda are considering adding the death penalty to their laws criminalising homosexuality.”

[mzteris]

1. sometimes I'm ashamed to be a human being.

WTF is wrong with people?

[Poll_Blind]

4. It's mostly religion, IMO. The big three, to point a finger more specifically.

I follow news in the Middle East quite a bit and I've read many interesting stories which aren't related, per se, to the struggle for peace in the region. One of those is that even during the absolute worst conflicts, there is (surprisingly) one thing which will cause Muslim clerics, Jewish Rabbis and Christian Priests to march through the streets of Jerusalem holding hands and smiling: Their hatred of homosexuals.

That is a kind of unity we don't need more of in this world.

PB

[RKP5637]

6. Religion IMO is the foundation of evil! n/t

[mzteris]

7. +100 million infinity. Plus one. n/t

[jancantor]

9. Humans invented religion

Humans are the foundation of evil. Without humans, there would be no religion, or no evil (at least not on our planet). Religion, as an invention of humanity, also encompasses our capacity for evil. Doing away with religion wouldn't eliminate evil. Plenty of people and nations did profoundly evil without the help of religion. Ever heard of Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, need I go on?

[RKP5637]

10. Very good point!!! Thanks!!! It is an intrinsic trait, isn't it ... n/t

[jancantor]

11. Thank you! nt

[Chulanowa]

18. I've heard of those three, yes

Ever heard the term "personality cult"?

There were people who prayed to Stalin. Mao set himself up with all the trappings of a divinely mandated emperor. Pol Pot commanded reverential worship from the Khmer Rouge.

They achieved what they did using the exact same methods and tactics that religions do. Just 'cause they proclaimed atheism doesn't mean that atheism was anywhere in there. You cited three examples of religious fervor that could make the Medieval church look like amateurs in comparison.

[jancantor]

19. First of all

I never mentioned atheism. I merely said religion was not necessary for evil. If you want to define the cult of personality worship (and fwiw, I strongly doubt most USSR citizen worshipped Stalin. They just had no choice if they wanted to live) as "religion", groovy.

Regardless, that wasn't what the OP was referring to. The point is that an absence of religion doesn't make humans any less evil. Of course it's very facile to claim that atheism was nowhere in the regimes of the USSR, etc. but of course that's ridiculously false. Some of these regimes criminalized religious worship and thus atheism (at least outwardly) was the only choice. I wasn't screeding against atheism, but you kneejerk defended it. The reality is that humans have the capacity for evil. Atheists and atheism are not any freer from this than theists. That would have been a reasonable assumption before history proved it false.

[Chulanowa]

20. Well, of course humans have the capability for evil

Xenophobia, paranoia, and territoriality are all instinctive for us.

Thing is, when I see the horses of "Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot" trotted out, they generally are due to get killed and beaten to a fine squishy paste by someone claiming that atheism is the root of evil. So, yeah, just a bit of a hair trigger there :)

However, the point remains - these three, and many others, basically put themselves in the place of god, usurping the weird little brain pattern people have that leads to superstition and religion. They were not atheist regimes - the state replaced the god, and while I too doubt a lot of Russians worshipped Stalin, enough did that he got to stay in power. The reason this is important because the core point of atheism is skepticism.

I argue that an atheist society - a skeptical society - will in fact me much freer and more advanced than a society where skepticism is denied, whether in the form of theocracy or authoritarianism.

[jancantor]

21. And of course I agree with you

Like I said, there is no false dichotomy here. I am not saying atheism is the root of evil, any more than I am saying theism is (which was the OP's absurd claim). I am saying it's a human thing, and thus human institutions will help them carry it out. And they do.

I disagree that the core point of atheism is skepticism. The core point of agnosticism is skepticism. At least if you are a strong atheist, iow you say "god does not exist", that is not skepticism. That is certainty. The USSR was officially atheist. But sure, when a regime prohibits belief in god, other things naturally fill the void - such as the cult of personality.

You are conflating skepticism and atheism and we have already had atheist societies. You just didn't like how THOSE atheist societies turned out, so you just deny they are atheist. Of course, there is no reason why an atheist society would be evil, any more than a theist society. It is entirely possible to have an atheist society with less evil, just like it is entirely possible to have a society of mostly theists that is less evil.

Regardless, how can you have an "atheist" society, without authoritarianism? If you proscribe belief, you are authoritarian. Otoh, if you don't, lots of people will be theists, and thus - it won't be an atheist society.

The reality is that if people have evil in their hearts, they don't need religion to carry it out. Religion can be a vessel, but so can any other institution or belief system. Heck, if otters can war over what the true name for atheism is, then anything's possible.

[Eryemil]

22. Ah, the good ol' religion vs Stalin debate. Lets make something clear:

Most of the horrific things that were done in the name of religion throughout human history were just that, done BECAUSE of religion, directly inspired by it. None of the massacres performed by atheist governments in recent years were inspired by atheism as a creed; the fact that these authorities were atheistic is simply due to their desire for control, namely the shifting of all the feel-good bullshit feelings usually associated with religion onto the state

Atheism is a lack of belief, NOT a belief system or some kind of dogma and while it may inspire some crazy people to go out and murder theists, that's not exactly what happened here is it? The genocidal sensibilities of these governments had nothing to do with their atheism, which is not something you can say for their religious counterparts.

Also, atheism and agnosticism are not part of the same spectrum. The suffix -gnostic, knowledge, in this case deals exclusively with the question of whether the existence of god can be known, for certain. Atheism and theism on the other hand have to do with belief.

There are agnostic atheists, (I am one myself, simply because of the ambiguity of the word "gods") which you would call soft atheists. People that don't claim to know whether gods exists or not and don't have a god belief. Then there are strong atheists, those that believe that the existence of a god can be disproved; the same qualifiers can be applied to theists.

By the way, strong atheists are not always necessarily wrong or taking a position of faith. In the case of specific gods, as defined by their religious scriptures, as opposed to just gods in general, it is not that hard to argue against their existence. If the Christian god is defined by what is written in the Christian bible (and he'd have to be, to be called the Christian god instead of just another one of those nebulous "gods") then it is pretty easy to say that the Christian god most likely does not exist, simply due to the fact that the bible is often wrong and contradicts itself, not to mention the fact that practically everything of note in it can be completely debunked by science. If the Christian god did not create the world in seven days, did not cause a flood, etc. then he is not the Christian god. The problem with the "god of the gaps" argument is that eventually you end up with something that does not resemble the deity you are actually supposed to believe in.


Religion is bad. It's a bad influence and sets a bad precedent in how it teaches people to cope with the real world and reality itself. There's nothing good about religion that cannot be recreated without the rigid, cruel and alienating dogma.

[jancantor]

25. again, you can play the false equivalence all you want

I never mentioned it.

Most of the horrific things that were done in the name of religion throughout history were done in the name of religion BECAUSE most people were religious, and thus people justified their evilness through the prevailing belief sytems.

I never said strong atheists are wrong or right. I said they are not skeptics. If I say bigfoot does not exist, I am not a skeptic. I am a denier. I have no idea if bigfoot exists. I am an agnostic. That's skepticism.

You can think religion is bad or good. You just can't ignore reality. The reality is that humans have a profound capacity for evil. That is neither the fault of, nor the result of religion. Utopians believed that if only religion were done away with, much of the evil would be. That has been proven wrong.

I don't care what your beliefs are, nor I doubt do you care about mine. This has nothing to do with whether there is a god or not. It has to do with the fact that religion is a human construct, and will thus incorporate human frailty. Religion doesn't cause evil, nor would an atheist society (and yes, we have ahd them) do away with that. You keep harping on the underlying truth of religion and/or christianity. I'm not. It's TOTALLY irrelevant to the topic. The point is that people have done evil in the name of every religion under the sun, and have also done evil in the name of official atheism, as well as have done evil because... well... they wanted to do evil, no religion or atheism or any other belief system or lack thereof involved.

That's simply the historical and psychological reality.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Chulanowa]

24. It would help if you learned a little more about atheism

At any rate, you're right - people don't need religion to do evil. But it certainly helps!

[jancantor]

28. It's an enabler

But so is any strongly held belief system, whether it includes god... or not.

[stopschoolpaddling]

13. Me too, well said.

[RKP5637]

2. Humans IMO are basically a backward species, just a minuscule look at

at world events / history confirms this. Somehow, I'm not surprised. Humans have been forever into death, destruction, violence and dominance. Supposedly an intelligent species? BS, it's basically a self-destructive species, an extraterrestrial F-up. I think the 'goodness' of the human species is often the exception. Fortunately, we have some better countries, "The UK, US, Australia, New Zealand and many European countries voted in favour of gays."

[enlightenment]

3. Disgusting.

Depressing.

[sakabatou]

15. +1

[Ian David]

5. Well, so much for Yemen's huge international gay tourism industry.

:sarcasm:

[Evasporque]

8. Tea Party drafting homosexuality criminalization law....nt

[MindandSoul]

12. This is ridiculous! That just mean that we have allowed unworthy countries to participate

And they should be expulsed from the United Nations. . .These countries do not deserve to be in the U.N, and do not deserve to have their say among civilised societies!

[Phil The Cat]

31. The point of the United Nations is dialog

It's not a "We all agree on everything important" club!

I do hope this vote wakes up the "United States is the most evil nation in the world" people - but alas! I doubt it!

[ruggerson]

14. I guess we'll be putting that NIgerian vacation on hold

n/t

[toddwv]

16. If that douchebag Bolten was still the US rep to the UN

I guarantee that the US would have been right there with Iran, Nigeria, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Iraq.

[struggle4progress]

17. Could we have the actual Resolution number and text?

I'd guess the article references the "Amendment to Remove the Term 'Sexual Orientation' from the Extrajudicial, Summary or Arbitrary Executions Resolution (A/C.3/65/L.29), Third Committee" but it's really impossible to tell

[Omaha Steve]

27. Everything I know is in the article

Wish I could do better.

[Prophet 451]

23. JESUS FUCKING DAMNIT!

That's it, I give up. Humanity no longer has any right to be the dominant species.

[RetiredTrotskyite]

29. Disgusting...

and a big thank you to the Big Three Religions that have sunk to yet another low. This makes me want to cry.:cry: We live in some very :scared: times indeed.

[Phil The Cat]

32. What about Hinduism?

It's proscription is a bit fuzzier, but nevertheless real!

[RetiredTrotskyite]

33. I'm Against That As Well...

But it is mostly Christianity and Islam that is the animus behind the murder of GLBT people in Africa.

[TheWraith]

30. This actually doesn't mean that much, really.

It's a non-binding resolution, meaning it in no way confers protection or non-protection on anyone. It's simply a sternly worded letter from the UN General Assembly, which is already taken seriously by exactly no one, and is likely going to be taken seriously by even fewer people now.