Op-ed: If You Take Down Israel, What Else Goes With It? (MODS GLBT Rights).

[William769]

Americans have every reason to envy Israel's enlightened policies toward their LGBT citizens. So it puzzles me deeply when I hear of LGBT groups lending their sympathy to opponents of Israel.

The rights we have been fighting for and still have not fully achieved in the United States, LGBT Israelis already enjoy. I came out in the middle of the last century and witnessed firsthand the persecution and oppression of LGBT people. It was because of those early experiences that I devoted the last 40 years of my life to writing books and articles about our community’s history and progress.

In America, as late as 2003 there were still 14 states that punished gay men under sodomy laws. Israel abolished all sodomy laws in 1988. In America, we’ve been fighting for decades for a law that would end employment discrimination against LGBT people. A few states have passed such laws, but the federal government has not. Israel passed a law in 1992 that protects any citizen (Jewish, Christian, or Arab) from employment discrimination for being lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender.

In America at mid-century, lesbians and gays in the military had to be absolutely closeted; they were witch-hunted and given dishonorable discharges if found out. The “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” policy that was passed during the Clinton administration was actually considered “progressive”—a big improvement over the old policy—because lesbians and gays were to be booted out of the military only if they drew attention to their homosexuality. Finally now, 11 years into the 21st century, America is getting around to permitting lesbians and gays to serve openly in the military. Our Israeli brothers and sisters have been able to serve openly since 1993, and since 1997 a same-sex partner is recognized by the Israeli Defense Department as a member of the soldier’s family.

http://www.advocate.com/Politics/Commentary/Op-ed__If_You_Take_Down_Israel,_What_Else_Goes_With_It_/

I know this Op-ed will cause flak, but when it comes to GLBT issues I support Israel 100%. I also support Israel as a whole.

[readmoreoften]

1. Queers against Israeli Apartheid beg to differ. I don't approve of this pinkwashing campaign.

And what about the marriage rights of Jews who want to marry Palestinians? What about queer Palestinians who are fighting against Israeli policies against their people?

http://queersagainstapartheid.org/

I'm a Jewish queer and I stand with both Israeli born and Palestinian born queers. But I won't exchange LBGT Rights for ethnic cleansing. Sorry.

I support queer activist Ezra Nawi
http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/301/t/9462/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=27357

http://pqbds.wordpress.com/about/

PQBDS is a group of Palestinian queers who live inside Palestinian Occupied Territories and inside Israel. I support them. And I'm a Jewish queer who grew up being attacked for both.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. whatever you said

but not the last sentence since i am not jewish

[readmoreoften]

3. I also don't stand with a nation that abducts children from their bedrooms.

http://electronicintifada.net/content/silwan-children-abducted-their-bedrooms/10088


The US commits similar atrocities in Afghanistan, and LGBT rights there are piss poor. But that doesn't mean I'm pro-war.

[William769]

5. I will never support a people that to this day still have and use five forms of death for...

For Homosexuals that inlude stoning & burning.

[Meeker Morgan]

11. Queers against Israeli Apartheid == Queers for genocide

"Israeli Apartheid" == Blood libel.

Fuck your suicide cult trying to drag the rest of us down with you.

[Behind the Aegis]

4. I have no issue with advocating for a Palestinian homeland, gay or straight.

What I do not like are queers who are nothing more than propagandist puppets and because they are gay, then it makes it "OK" to launch their lies, hate, and bigotry against Israel. There is no apartheid in Israel, despite the lies told. There is racism and other forms of bigotry, but I dare anyone to find a nation which does not suffer from these issues! It is wrong in some ways to tie the two movements together. At pride parades, I am glad to see propagandists and hatemongers like Queers against Apartheid not allowed to march under their banner.

Israel is way ahead of us on GLBT rights, and many other personal rights, but that makes little difference to many. Protesting Israeli treatment of Palestinians in the DT, protesting governmental actions, and advocating for peace are not anti-Israel and are very much needed. What is not needed is the campaign of lies and bigotry and it is even worse when it comes from Jews and gays (the latter simply because I happen to be one).

[ProgressiveProfessor]

6. Is there any other country in the Middle East where gays are not stoned to death?

GLBT rights in Israel exceed those of the US and most western nations.

[William769]

7. And the funny thing is when GLBT Palestinians flee for safety Guess where they go?

Israel! Sure they may have to hide because if immigration but at least they are not killed.

[Behind the Aegis]

8. Jordan.

Alledgedly homosexuality is legal in the West Bank (a hold over from Jordanian occupation), but I think those laws have changed. I know it has in Gaza. I don't think either of those require the death penalty, but treatment of gays is very poor and harsh. There have been a few "honor killings" over the years which involve GLBT folks as victims.

[MNBrewer]

12. It's still a theocratic state

Israeli law recognizes same-sex marriages performed elsewhere. It is the only country in the Middle East and all of Asia to do so. It does not, however, allow same-sex couples to marry on Israeli soil. Civil marriage doesn't exist in Israel for heterosexual couples, either, (except where both spouses are non-Jewish) and therefore no marriage not sanctioned by religious authorities can take place within Israel. (This restriction forces not only gay couples, but also all mixed-religion heterosexual couples and any person who wishes a non religious marriage, to marry outside the country.)

[Behind the Aegis]

13. Israel is not a theocratic state.

Typical BS propaganda. Iran is a theocratic state. Vatican City is a theocratic state. There are elements of religious law, but that is not what a 'theocracy' is.

[MNBrewer]

14. Tomato tomaaaahto

Religious law as civil law is exactly what theocracy is!

[Behind the Aegis]

15. Except that isn't the case, but why let facts get in the way.

AS I said, which you obviously missed, is there are a few laws which religion does play apart...but guess what? That is true in many countries! GASP! THE HORRORS!

Learn what a fucking theocracy is! It is just another propagandist term used to delegitimize Israel, a favorite past-time of the anti-Israel "critics."

[MNBrewer]

16. I'm not seeking to delegitimize Israel, merely the concept of a religious state

a theocracy.

Why don't YOU define what a fucking theocracy is, since you claim to know what one is....

[Behind the Aegis]

18. Burden of proof!

You are fucking claiming it, you prove it!

[MNBrewer]

19. You fucking claim that you fucking know what a fucking theocracy is!

I already gave my definition. Civil laws based on religious law.

You fucking can fucking give fucking your fucking own fucking definition fucking if fucking you fucking fucking fucking want fucking to!

But fucking the fucking fucking fucking burden fucking of fucking fucking fucking proof fucking isn't fucking fucking fucking on fucking fucking me!

[Kurska]

20. Do you have any idea the number of laws derived from or based on religious traditions?

You're basically calling every country on earth a theocracy under that definition.

[Behind the Aegis]

21. Shhhh...don't introduce logic or facts. It will make the meltdown worse.

[Occulus]

24. Lots of wrong is still wrong.

It doesn't matter if there is one nation with one religious law, or a thousand nations with ten thousand religious laws. It is still wrong, and it isn't even a matter of degree.

[Kurska]

25. You'd be hard pressed to find a single nation that doesn't have a law derived from or inspired by

religion.

Your definition is meaninglessly broad. A theocracy is a state ruled by a person or group whose main authority comes from their membership in some kind of priesthood, like the Ayatollah of Iran or Vatican City and it's Pontifical Commission and Pope.

[dsc]

27. actually Nepal allows gay marriage too

[MNBrewer]

17. Turkey

[DissedByBush]

26. Turkey is considered Southern Europe

Even then it's not illegal, but otherwise homosexuals have no rights.

[mitchtv]

9. So things are good/better for Lgbt's in Israel.

That doesn't change much. Israel is still an occupying country. No matter what you say, occupation is violence.Settlements should be evacuated . I don't want to support either side,I am digusted by both.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. so true

regarding disgust at the violence on all sides.

[King_David]

22. So is it better

to take the Gay's of Israel from all they have gained and all their equal rights to a time (present time in Gaza ,West Bank and all of the Arab world) where Gays are hanged and stoned and killed just because they were born with a certain sexual orientation.

Why on earth would Gays want this?

[William769]

23. Op-ed Rebuttal: The Last Word in Debate Series on Israel

Sherry Wolf’s piece is full of the usual misinformation about Israel.

Wolf claims that only Jewish LGBT people in Israel enjoy progressive reforms. Simply not true. All citizens—whether Jewish, Christian, or Muslim—enjoy LGBT rights in Israel, as I point out in my op-ed piece. LGBT Arabs live openly in Israel, as they could nowhere else in the Middle East. Aswat, a lesbian Arab group was founded in 2003: Guess where in the Middle East? Haifa. Jerusalem Open House, which provides a home to LGBT organizations and is open to all LGBT people — Jews, Christians, and Muslims — started Alqaws in 2007, a group that reaches out specifically to LGBT Arab Israelis.

Wolf describes Israeli policies as “racist” and “apartheid.” In fact, Arab citizens of Israel have equal rights under the law. They can worship as they want. They can vote for whomever they want.As citizens of Israel, they are entitled to a virtually-free education, paid for by the state — including university education in some of the best universities in the world. Arabs are in the Knesset (the Israeli parliament); there have been and are Arab Israeli political ministers and members of the Israeli Supreme Court. I challenge Wolf to tell me what apartheid country could say that, or what other Middle Eastern country treats its minority citizens as well.

Wolf says that Israel has “brazenly occupied Palestinian land for decades.” Space makes a proper history lesson impossible — but to be brief: For 400 years, the area of “Palestine” was ruled by the Turkish Ottoman Empire — not “Palestinians.”

http://www.advocate.com/Politics/Commentary/Op-ed_Rebut...