I don' t think I could ever explain to a person who has never faced overt bigotry

[La Lioness Priyanka]

what the psychological impacts of encountering bigotry is.

For instance, every time Lisa and I have been verbally assaulted on the subway or in public, it's not the physical threat that is as damaging as the psychological threat. I constantly mull over how we could have handled it better and how I could have been tougher. It makes me angry and anxious for days and days after the incident. It leaves me exhausted and embittered.

Sometimes when i hear the "subway preachers" yell about the abomination of homosexuality, I stand up to them and yell back. Sometimes I just let it go. Regardless, the anger and anxiety of these encounters follow me around for much longer than the actual incident.

We could be armed, we could all take self-defense classes but the psychological damage evoked by bigotry will remain.

[EFerrari]

1. It's traumatizing. And at some point, the stress cup runs over

and one can be left with chronic anxiety or depression plus an impacted immune system.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. yeah. this is why, i dont react well to gay jokes etc

life is hard enough, without adding to my "stress cup"

[Initech]

6. I don't either and a lot of times it really pisses me off.

[MarianJack]

10. In Another Life,...

...I knew and told MANY ethnic, gay and religious jokes. No more.

If I can't just make it a joke about a general "2 guys" or something similar, I won't tell it. I learned a long time ago that any joke that targets any group is a form of discrimination. Now, the only group I make the target of jokes is republics & teabaggers.

PEACE!

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gateley]

3. You're right - I'm White, Straight, Non-Jewish and there is no way I,

or anyone who isn't of a discriminated-against group, could even fathom what it must be like. I imagine you look at everything and everyone through a defensive filter. It breaks my heart.

:hug:

[MemeSmith]

23. Move to Scotland

Being the subject of overt bigotry was a valued part of my personal education.

Thank you, Scotland.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

24. can you explain that?

[MemeSmith]

31. Sure

I lived in Scotland with my American wife for a year. She suffered the minor share of overt bigotry, as an American. I suffered the major share, as an Englishman.

In Glasgow, they set up a racism hotline, so that the victims of racial discrimination could call in and get support. They were concerned about their Asian population suffering abuse. After just a few weeks, they cancelled the service, because over 80% of the callers were English.

It is rare, as extreme bigotry is in most developed societies, but there are those in Scotland whose hatred of the English has extended even to violence.

[izquierdista]

4. It's always good to fight back

You just have to make sure the numbers make it a fair fight.

Bigotry which is not faced down lives to oppress another day. When people occupy lunch counters, demonstrate, march in parades, celebrate their heritage/ethnicity/sexual orientation/community, they don't just let it go, they put it out there to be accepted.

Small minds need to be confronted, lest they accumulate more like minded around them and become a bigger threat.

[racaulk]

5. Very well said, Priyanka.

K&R!

[MuseRider]

14. racaulk

I LOVE LOVE LOVE your Glinda. Can I steal it? I just got done laughing so hard I almost lost my lunch. Oh that is just so wonderful! :)

EDIT to add, I am from Kansas and the WofO has always been a part of my life. As a child I got through the scary parts of the movie knowing that Glinda would never let anything really bad happen. I would certainly feel much safer with Glinda being the one we rely on.

[racaulk]

15. Oh yes, please do!

I love the image too! :hi:

[MarianJack]

7. I'm Not Gay, but among...

...my wife's and my closest friends are a lesbian couple who've been together for 11 years. Our hearts broke when Marriage Equality was defeated here (in Maine) in 2009 but we hope to see that reversed next year.

Our son(a beautiful African American 11 year old boy) has been the target of discrimination on a number of occasions. Fortunately he was so innocent that he didn't know it, but my wife and I did. You're right, shitty little snubs, smart assed comments and blatent disrespect feel like a physical assualt.

The worst part that I've seen from the the gay/lesbian hating dipsticks is that they claim Christianity. My wife and I are life-long Catholics. My wife was in the convent for 6 years. If they paid ANY attention to the Bible they claim to follow they'd know that we are meant to love and care for each other.

On a personal note, La Lioness Priyanka, please know that there are many straight people who support, respect and love the members of the GLBT community, many of whom we've trusted to watch our son LONG before we'd trust any fundie dipshit. Please accept my wife's and my best wishes and regards.

PEACE!

[Smarmie Doofus]

8. K and R. I can relate. Esp to this:

>>>Sometimes I just let it go. Regardless, the anger and anxiety of these encounters follow me around for much longer than the actual incident.>>>

Even *watching* this happening to someone else can do that to me.


Sometimes I think it's amazing we're not all completely crazy.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. yup. sometimes when people talk about how the homosexual lifestyle

is related to higher depression/anxiety rates, i wish they would acknowledge their contribution to our depression/anxiety rates

[eridani]

28. I really despise that word

We don't have "lifestyles"--we have LIVES.

[closeupready]

36. If you watched that MTV episode posted earlier in this forum, "I Want To Be Straight,"

then you'll understand why I cringed at BOTH their stories - both of these gay people adopted the vocabulary of those who seek to diminish their innate sexuality, by employing the word "lifestyle", in various ways. The codependency there turns my stomach - sad for them, and angry at those who twist their minds like that. :puke:

[William769]

9. Thanks La Lioness Priyanka, I was going to start a thread titled Fighting Homophobia

But I'll just add my two cents here.

Homophobia is like racism, it needs to to be stopped dead in it's tracks. Jokes is one of the main causes of keeping homophobia alive. And yes some even in our own community are guilty of it. As I get older & (hopefully) wiser I see how off the wall jokes can be hurtful to a community that has fought so hard to stop it. Stop the bullying is one of the best positive ad campaigns going and people should focus on that instead of silly jokes.

To my younger brothers & sisters of this great community, you may not think something is offensive as compared to to say someone my age. This also goes for heterosexuals. I have been in the trenches fighting this kind of crap for a long time. When I see it, I'll confront it & I don't care who you are or where you are, yes you will have to deal with me. STOP THE HATE! And yes jokes can be very hateful.

ON EDIT: Recommended.

[MarianJack]

11. Count Me In!

:patriot:

PEACE!

[JackBeck]

12. It's difficult living with the constant threat of violence.

And when someone allegedly posts something as satire, that encourages people to attack members of our community, it rips open the wounds that I am always trying to heal.

After I was gay bashed in Brooklyn, when I went to the police to report the event, one of the first questions the cops asked me was whether or not it's possible that they kids who beat be saw me holding hands with my partner. It felt like I was being blamed for the attack.

I've known many muscular men who are unable to defend themselves in a fight. Muscles do not equal strength or 'street smarts.' And when it's a group of even two or more people inflicting the harm, well, then it doesn't matter how strong an individual may be.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

18. yes, and muscles do not protect us from psychological damage either

and not all of us can become muscled. imagine me with muscles. :)

[MuseRider]

13. (((hugs)))

It really does hurt. I have had only a tiny bit being female. The rest, well I am white and straight and not poor. That pretty much makes it obviously almost non existant. However I have heard it when with my friends, heard it at PRIDE parades and activities and I read it all the time. It hurts me so I can't imagine how it hurts you.

I have been called a lesbian many times doing what I do. They say it like they say liberal, with a nasty sneer, but it is so not an insult to me. What I hear when it is used like that against my friends hurts. When I see the way people stare and whisper, sometimes way too loudly, when I am with a transgendered friend makes me want to forget my pledge to non violence. There is no reason for any human to treat another the way they treat you, no reason and no excuse. They might be ignorant or might not be but there is no reason to be so hateful. I just do not understand it.

I wish you nothing but good things Lioness. To all of you, so many of us have your back. I wish it was enough to stop this kind of thing from happening. Supporters need to stop feeling scared of this and stand up. When it happens you should have people standing with you. Why do they not?

Be safe. We are with you. Many are gaining their courage now. We keep teaching and they are beginning to see.

EDIT to remove an errant y :)

[Behind the Aegis]

16. What's worse....

...is when people make light of the situation, or as happened a few days back (to me) and is happening now, change the subject! If the topic is homophobia, then there is no reason to discuss other issues of bigotry, unless that is the topic. If a persons response to homophobia is "well, it isn't fair they way were are treated" then it is nothing but a continuation of homophobia because the implication is we are getting something they are not. Yes, all bigotry should be confronted, and there are some that seemingly get "overlooked", but I haven't seen overt calls to attack other minorities or even whites and Christians, even as sarcasm. The few times, and this was awhile back, that I did see come really over-the-top anti-Christian remarks and behavior, there were quite a few responses to combat the bigotry.

Irony, sarcasm, a "joke": "So and so is gayer than treefull of parrots in leather chaps on Castro Street!"

Not ANY of the above: "Ha-ha...let's call this person "gay" and mock them. Let's see them beat some faggot down!"

The above would need MUCH more context in order to fall in category 1.

People should think more before they post.

[laconicsax]

17. K&R

[Call Me Wesley]

20. K&R.

And thus, we call ourselves a 'civilized' society. That's my joke of the day.

I hope I'll see the day we evolved from bigotry.

:hug:

[ZombieHorde]

21. ...

:hug:

[Politicub]

22. K&R

[NMMNG]

25. Many people don't want to know

They'd have to stop and assess their own actions if they accepted how much harm they were doing to others. Instead they pretend the victims are just weak, or responsible for their own plight. Hence the claim that being gay is in itself the cause of increased depression, suicide, substance abuse, etc, rather than the abuse we suffer at the hands of bigots.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

43. true enough

[pacalo]

26. I know what you're referring to & I think we've all learned a valuable lesson from it.

We straight DUers support you all, but, like you said, we don't know what it's like to be you.

We can stand up for you, we can support you emotionally as friends, write letters, etc., but we're people, too, & people do make mistakes in judgment. Like posting what one DUer thought would be a humorous take on anti-homophobes -- the type of bullies that make GLBTers' lives miserable & threatened with violence, which the DU poster abhors. It was a post of support for GLBTers, warning homophobes that one day they're going to pick on the wrong people & get what the homophobe deserves.

On the subject of emotional being, this particular DUer had a harrowing, two-month stay in the hospital recently for heart surgery; ended up having multiple surgeries during his stay. His biggest pleasure in life is making people laugh -- particularly here on DU; it's his salvation, really, since he's still recuperating & has no home phone. We are his family -- all of us.

Please have mercy on him. He truly meant the post to be a supportive one.

:grouphug:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

27. have you learned a lesson? i have seen more defenses of him

than any posts about understanding where we may be coming from

[pacalo]

30. I'm sorry, I explained the situation as best as I could. The lesson learned is not

to use humor on such a sensitive subject that deeply affects many good people.

If the DUer in question were allowed to express this directly, he would.

And I would defend you, too, if you were being ganged up on for what was supposed to be a well-intentioned show of support. His only mistake was in using humor that was misinterpreted.

[JackBeck]

29. You may confess to have learned something

but we continue to be reminded of the violence inflicted on our community when a post like MFMs is given a pass by a post like yours.

Where's the mercy for our brothers and sisters who are being murdered on a daily basis?

By recalling MFM's unfortunate health situation in an attempt for sympathy, you diminish the death of http://www.towleroad.com/2011/08/jury-deliberations-continue-today-in-brandon-mcinerney-trial.html">Larry King, who was murdered by his classmate. Many in our community are waiting for the final decision in this trial which could come over the next few days. Some nerves may be a bit raw, but those who are true supporters of our community have visited our blogs and know what we're tuned into at the moment.

No one in the DU community should ever call for harm to be perpetrated on any member.

As someone who is still alive, MFM is inviting violence against a marginalized group of people. He adds nothing to any conversation among those of us who are trying to stop violence against the LGBT community.

[Rhythm]

32. Those who don't remember the past...

we continue to be reminded of the violence inflicted on our community when a post like MFMs is given a pass by a post like yours.
Where's the mercy for our brothers and sisters who are being murdered on a daily basis?>>

We don't even have to look that far back to find another member of the LGBT community murdered because of his orientation... just days, in fact.
Marcellus Andrews, 19 years old, died in Waterloo, Iowa just a few days ago... BEATEN TO DEATH by a group of straight men who hurled homophobic slurs as they kicked him in the face and ended his life.

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2011/08/iowa-student-dies-after-brutal-beating-in-which-attackers-shouted-gay-slurs/

These things happen all too often, and should NEVER be the topic of 'humor'.
Not under any circumstance...

[raccoon]

33. I don't think you could ever explain it either. Sometimes when a person has never experienced

something, they just don't get it.

For example, most of my adult life I've lived alone as a single woman. My mother used to say a woman living alone is a target--and she was right.

I don't think women who've been married or in a relationship all their adult life--or men--usually understand how many men will hit on a woman who lives alone, because they perceive that she has no husband/boyfriend to hold them "accountable." Maybe some men perceive women in a lesbian relationship that way, too.

Rec'd.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

42. i completely understand that

[mimitabby]

34. there are people who understand without having to be victims

when I was 8 years old, I observed the effects of another child calling a bus full of black children names. I saw the expression on just one little girl's face. That's when I learned that it was wrong to do that. I am sure I am not so unusual; other people can learn too, even if they are parts of a strong majority.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

40. you may understand that its wrong, but you will never fully get the extent of the trauma

much like i will never fully understand what a war vet has gone through

[closeupready]

35. I have to say, this is one reason I have a single heterosexual in my social circle -

an older lady friend who likes gay men. A former colleague and someone who is utterly 100% supportive. Despite her supporting me and gay people generally, she understands that she can't ever completely 'get' how it feels to be gay, and I love her for that ability to recognize her own limitations - much as I am limited by my own life experiences to put myself in her shoes.

Aside from her, I know this sounds kind of bad, but I do NOT socialize with heterosexuals. I don't go to their clubs; I don't entertain conversation with them; I don't flirt with them; they are simply not allowed to be part of my life. One way or another, they always find ways to dominate gatherings and to sideline me and deny me the opportunity to express myself freely. As a self-supporting adult, I can't allow others to do that to me.

I hope that doesn't sound prejudiced, but as I've stated here many times before, I do recognize how unfair that is, and I do try to find ways to work through that mindset. I guess one of those ways is to talk here with them, as I do. But for better or worse, that's about the extent of my voluntary interaction with them.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

48. i am going to pm you about this

[closeupready]

49. Much appreciated.

:hi:

[mitchtv]

60. I too ,have little contact with straits

we both come from big catholic families, so we have some contact.

[closeupready]

61. Ditto, but I can stand to be around them for a grand total of about one 3-day weekend per year.

More than that, and we are almost literally at each others' throats. Last time, in fact, arguments did ensue. :eyes: It's like, suddenly, we're all 10 years old again.

[mitchtv]

62. got a funeral coming up

we will skip any gettogethers after interment, and quickly get to the car.

[closeupready]

37. Oh, and re: subway preachers - I just turn up the volume on my MP3 player.

Problem solved. :) :hi:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

39. i do too but these days I am out of patience and i dont want some young gay kid on the subway

to think no one will stand up for him/her. so sometimes i feel obligated to say something.

[closeupready]

45. I really respect you for that. Well I respect you for lots of things. :-)

But personally, I often feel so isolated and alone when I am out and about (ironically in the midst of streams of thousands of people), and thus I am so focused on self-preservation, that I only have time and energy to protect myself.

Now obviously, if a gay kid was being physically attacked, I would personally intervene. But on the level of street preacher where anyone can walk away, what can I really do? And if I do say something, will it be constructive? Or will it just be "FUCK YOU AND YOUR BULLSHIT!!!!"

[La Lioness Priyanka]

46. sometimes i say things like the bible says we can keep slaves, should we restart that?

i get just as tired of saying things as i do by not saying anything. its really shitty.

i respect self-preservation in these situations.

[humankarenball]

38. One of my daughters and her girlfriend were verbally accosted

yesterday by a campus preacher who saw them holding hands.

They're both mentally tough young women with good friend and family support, but I worry daily what the long-term psychological impacts of such encounters might be. I worry even more about the potential for a verbal attack to become a physical one.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

41. yup. i worry about lisa every day because she is so clearly gay

i pass as a straight person, so its not so much an issue. the constant assault is very exhausting

[humankarenball]

44. It's apropos you use the word "exhausting"

When my daughters and their girlfriends (yep, I'm a extremely lucky & proud mom of twin girls who are both lesbians) tell me about the bigotry they face in their day-to-day lives, the word they use the most to describe their experiences is "fatigue." No matter their first inclination during any particular attack--anger, attempts at ignoring, etc., what's left afterward is an extreme tiredness.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

47. fatigue is exactly right

[mitchtv]

63. some young tough on Mission St in SF

called partner and I "officers" a while back. I passed that evening

[Smarmie Doofus]

50. We spend almost all of our time talking politics here.

We tend to overlook the emotional impact that we all endure... whether we're aware of it or not.

And frankly... we're not ( I'm not, anyway) most of the time. It used to be said ( correctly) that a closeted life was psychologically unhealthy. But being out carries a lot of stress with it also.

I guess we should pay more attention to that. And take care of ourselves. Emotionally-speaking.

This thread is an eye-opener.

[MuseRider]

51. YES!

I think that is a very important thing that you said. People who can't relate often don't even spend the time to think about those things. The more people understand and are forced to think about it the closer we get to pulling them off that damned fence of NOT ME - DON'T WANNA (or need to) THINK ABOUT IT.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JackBeck]

54. Thank you, Mods/Admin.

Alerted and deleted in less than 5 minutes.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

55. what happened? and who was it?

[JackBeck]

56. An idiot newbie blowing their sock within two posts.

Their first post at the beginning of the thread was so vile I alerted and the Mods/Admin did a bang-up job getting rid of them quickly.

[mopinko]

57. you're welcome

we do try.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

58. k&

Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours :*

[cbayer]

59. Painful to read, but glad you shared this.

I was with two lesbian friends in the French Quarter once who were verbally accosted by some drunk frat boys. I have no words for what I felt, so I know I could never even begin to understand what you and they feel on a routine basis.

:hug:

[Deep13]

64. Having been on the receiving end of bullying...

...including the purely psychological variety, I know exactly what you mean. Oddly, when I was a kid that included harassment for supposed homosexuality. I was nerdy, introverted and unathletic which mean bullies assumed I was gay.

I'm sorry you have to deal with that shit.

[Irishonly]

65. Kick

I would have loved to recommended your thread but I saw it a little late. I am always sad when I read about the BS and hate that you have to face. I don't understand it and never will.

[Cherchez la Femme]

66. No, they couldn't understand

not unless they were one extraordinary person.

It's much like depression: My aunt would tell me just to 'snap out of it' or 'to think of a happy thought'.


Hell, even in my worst depression, Doom Kitten

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9f5nf7KYNY

can make me laugh -- but the depression is still there in it's former strength after the video's done,

even after watching it for the 12th time :/

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

67. You should arm yourself, and let the homophobic pricks know that you are willing

to defend yourself if things get violent. Look into the Pink Pistols group.