There is no quick cure. No short term solutions.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

i want to preface this by saying that this is not an attack on DSC. I like him and he has every right to be worried about the kids who are killing themselves. I am writing this because it made me think of our lives. There is no short term cure to any number of problems that we as a community have. Increased rates of depression, drug use, un-safe sex practices, lgbt teen homelessness, hiv rates, suicide, violence faced etc.

I wish there were, but there isn't. As a community we are not safe. Sure we have safe(r) pockets of the world to be in, but in general we are not safe. We know this. We live it everyday. We live around hate, violence, casual bigotry and systematic bigotry directed at us.

There will never be a cure to suicide or depression, till we fix its cause and the cause is homophobia/hetero-sexism/homo-negativity/transphobia/biphobia etc. Till we can reduce the amount of hate directed at us, we'll never stop the awful things that happen to us and the awful things we do to cope with it.

No matter how bad it is right now, every kid/adult/elderly who comes out makes it easier for another generation. Yes, we are in a tumultuous time, because gay rights are no longer closeted and constantly publicly debated, but there is no other way to cure this problem than to face it head on. There really just isn't.

I also don't want to say, there is nothing we can do, we can. We can continue to create safe spaces for queer teens, continue to fight for our rights, to donate to community organizations that do this work etc. However we will never get to the root of this problem, till we have equal rights and till being homophobic will be considered shameful.

with love to all.

[racaulk]

1. Very well said, lioness.

The problems that face our community (and really, our world) are far too large that it's easy to be overwhelmed by the enormity of it all. All we can do is try to effect change in whatever small ways we can whenever possible. Hopefully, the aggregate of our actions will have impacts that are positive and enduring.

K&R

[La Lioness Priyanka]

4. ty

:grouphug:

[mitchtv]

2. a great big K&R

thanks

[La Lioness Priyanka]

3. ty

:grouphug:

[dsc]

5. The problem is that we have this fetish for local control in this country

which leaves teens in large sections of our country in a worst of all worlds situation. The positive parts of the change haven't occured there yet but the fact of the change existing has. Thus we have outed large portions of our community without providing them the ability to be out and not be in a place where discrimination is less common. I don't know what the solution to that is.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

6. I dont think we have outed the community, and i dont think its fair

to state it like that. we have made queer visible for a very good reason. there would be no progress, no hope till there was visibility. there is no quick solution, its a huge societal change that we are asking for, and it will take time.

though i still think people in our communities dont do enough for lgbt teens once they themselves have escaped. i hear so many of my friends shuddering about their high school experiences, but never donating money or time to people who work for lgbt teen safe spaces. that i think should be our concurrent focus along with marriage and other rights stuff

[dsc]

7. We didn't purposely out them

but the fact is we have made the closet a nearly impossible place to be without having worked on the federal level for at least anti bullying bills. Yes, ending DADT was a big deal and very needed but so was a national anti bullying bill with real teeth yet national gay groups spent maybe 1/10th of the time on that, if that.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. again, i dont see how we outed people. weren't you until very recently in the closet at work?

if you're outing theory held, you would not have been able to be in the closet for as long as you were.

[closeupready]

13. I agree; nobody has been outed. I think that claim has not been established in this thread

or elsewhere. (Which doesn't mean dsc doesn't have a point, but I would respectfully ask him to either explain his reasoning behind that claim, or else - if the original point has been mis-worded - restate the point he is trying to make.)

The practice of 'outing' is specific to individuals.

The process of social change, such as the elimination of the gay closet, is broad and generalized - a society-wide phenomenon.

So suggesting that liberalization of society's mores with regard to sexual orientation has led directly to these individual gay people to commit suicide - stated THAT way, I think it's very clear there is a logical leap that can't be bridged in any way.

[dsc]

15. I think you know what I mean

the simple fact is that it is exponentially harder for kids to just hide in plain sight if that is what they want to do. I think it is incumbent upon us as the adults with political power (at least as compared to kids) to lobby more strongly for policies that will benefit them. Our success has lead to it being much hard for them to do what most of us did as kids, just kind of float along, neither lying nor telling the truth, just not addressing the question since it wasn't being asked. I don't advocate going back to it not being asked, just taking responsibility to mitigate the harm to those it may be harming.

[closeupready]

17. I still don't honestly understand. Can you give an example?

Not a real one, just sort of mix up details and tell us how social liberalization has harmed gay children. Thanks.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

18. i still dont get it though. how are we forcing these kids to be out.

they have the exact same amount of ability to lie about their lives, as others have. they are choosing not to use to, or bullies are generalizing that anyone apart from the norm is gay, but i dont think in anyway kids are pushed out of the closet.

[closeupready]

19. I guess we don't deserve the respect that we extend to other members here,

asking polite questions, and asking for follow-up.

[dsc]

20. the simple fact is school has radically changed in a fairly short time

in regards to gayness. Yes, a student can repeatedly lie and likely not be believed or live a lie well and be believed. But they can't do, what many of us did, and fly beneath the radar. We were late bloomers, or just were waiting to find someone, or didn't believe in dating. Those are immensely harder to try to pull of in this day and age. I think even more problematic is that the parents of these kids are far more likely to suspect gayness when they would have been more naive before. It gives these kids way less breathing room than they had before even in small towns. I think when we were young the places that were the most intolerant as to gays were also among the least likely to know who was and who wasn't gay. Now I think that is no longer the case. I think it is incumbent upon us to work more at the federal level to try to get protections for students where they otherwise won't get them. I agree that students are often open because they want to be, but I also think that often there is an implicit false promise that if they are open life automatically gets better for them immediately. That isn't always the case. I think that at least until we can get repairative therapy camps restricted to only willing adults, kids with religious parents should be careful coming out and we should tell them that.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

21. i get that we need to fight for legislation, but its not a short road to get legislation passes

and i dont think this will be fixed by laws. i think it will get better as attitudes change, which takes time. just ask african americans.

[dsc]

22. laws definately help

no they don't fix everything but we just lost our last chance to end anti bullying in this year with nary a word from places such as HRC. That is disappointing to say the least.

[William769]

23. The U.S.Senate really screwed us on our last chance to end anti bullying this year.

Lets put the blame where it belongs. Both bills died without even getting out of committee. They had the votes to move forward but didn't because they didn't have the 60 votes in the Senate (what a weak ass excuse), at last if it made it to the Senate floor it would have kept up the pressure and to keep it in the media and make people explain why they are against it.

Just my two cents.

ON EDIT: Both bills died on spirit day, makes one want to :puke:

[dsc]

24. and my point is had that been ending DADT

you couldn't have turned on a TV without hearing the HRC screaming like murdered roosters. That is why I think we adults are failing our children.

[William769]

25. It just happened on Friday, today is Sunday.

Sorry But I think it's people like you that have priorities messed up. At least some of us are fighting the good fight and not asking the question if our young brothers & sisters are coming out of the closet to early.

And my point is, again put the blame where it belongs, the U.S. Senate.

[closeupready]

14. dsc, can you please see my post #13 to this thread.

Cheers. :hi:

[William769]

9. All I can say is the more of us that come out of the closet & the more visibility there is

The harder it will be to bully. Teen suicides are going to happen no matter what all we can do now and in the future is to make life just a little easier & to show there is nothing shameful at all about being homosexual & that by comming out & showing more visibilty is the way to equality.

Teach our youth to stand up & fight for equality is the only way to go in my opinion.

Recommended.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. agreed

[closeupready]

11. K&R - can think of nothing to add here.

:hi:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

12. ...

:hi:

[w8liftinglady]

16. Which is exactly why I came out.

I am "normal"...not your textbook "dyke" (although I DO like soft butch!)Being gay is a choice that was made when our genetics formed.I'm proud of me,and what I've accomplished.Even in Red Texas, people need to feel accepted.Two of my co-workers have come out since I did.We are a growing minority!