May I ask a question before this is shut down, or if anyone is still

[tnlefty]

here....

I've heard David Bender, radio name, out and proud radio personality, make comments about Marcus Bachman, on more than one occasion. The day that I heard him make the comment, 'Is Michele Bachman the only person on the planet who doesn't realize that she's married to a gay man?', I nearly wrecked my car.

Today Stephanie Miller made a joke about Marcus Bachman, followed up by the Mooks, and I laughed.

I realize that 3 people don't speak for the GLBT community, but, while I mean no harm to the GLBT community at all, I'm at times confused about what is or isn't offensive. When something is blatant I get that, and living in the south, I'm pretty good at hearing the dog whistles whether racial, or against the GLBT community, but can anyone understand my confusion at times, when I mean no harm at all?

[truedelphi]

1. It is funnybecause it is ironical.

Marcus Bachman has a therapy that can prevent your youngster from being gay. He has a therapy that can straighten you out. <supposedly>

And Bachman herself is married to a man who

one) can supposedly "un-gay" a person

and two) seems to have fooled her

[tnlefty]

4. Their crazy business that tries to pray the gay away is my

biggest problem with Marcus. That is just fucked up, IMHO.

I'll never forget the day that my husband came home from work and told me that he'd read that Michele didn't even like him when they met and were dating, and she mentioned it to her friends, but GOD told her to marry him....to my mind they're a tad bit crazy, and I wish they'd keep their crazy to themselves and leave the rest of us out of their crazy.

But that still doesn't address the premise of my question about understanding what is or isn't offensive to the GLBT community, especially when I don't intend any harm, but just might stick my foot in my mouth, or the equivalent of my typing fingers. :blush:

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Divine Discontent]

3. correct. he appears like a stereotypical Gay person

but very few Gay men I know are as effeminate as Marcus speaks and gestures. the stereotype itself is why it's perceived that he's Gay.

I am told I'm way too masculine to be Gay. I'm very friendly though, but, I get the 'theres no way you're Gay, dude', from many people that it really needs pointed out time and again -------

not all Gay men have mannerisms like Marcus, though plenty do. like Straight folk, there's differences to us all.

[tnlefty]

6. One of my favorite movies is Zorro the Gay Blade, and it isn't on

my fav list for the stereotypical gay twin cousin who returns, takes a twist (or many) on the basic Zorro attire...it's the one liners in that movie.

But my question had more to do with the confusion of those of us who mean no harm being confused at times about what is or isn't offensive.

[tnlefty]

5. That is little to nothing to do with the questions that I posed...

my question was about what out a few out and proud folks had to say and the confusion amongst the rest of us who mean no harm, but sometimes are confused.

I don't like Marcus because of his supposed 'ministry' to 'pray away the gay'.

[Sapphocrat]

7. And what the FUCK does "look and act gay" mean?

Explain yourself.

[NMMNG]

8. Meaning?

Do you know how many people are bullied, even killed, because assholes push that notion that there is a particular way of "looking" gay and "acting" gay?

[Sapphocrat]

9. tnlefty, I know you mean no harm, but this entire thread is offensive.

Substitute "steroetypical black" for "stereotypical gay" in your post downthread, and perhaps you may begin to see why I'm am pissed off beyond belief.

If that doesn't do it, try...

"One of my favorite movies is An Unmarried Woman, and it isn't on my fav list for the stereotypical divorced woman..."

"One of my favorite movies is Annie Hall, and it isn't on my fav list for the stereotypical neurotic Jew who can't get a date..."

"One of my favorite movies is To Sir, With Love, and it isn't on my fav list for the stereotypical noble black man who teaches poor white trash how to behave..."

Need more?

[tnlefty]

10. I'm sorry Sapphorocat, but I'm afraid that I do...and I'm sorry

for the offense. I really mean that.

One of my favorite lines from the movie that I referenced is when Lauren Hutton's character asks Brenda Vaccaouras' (spelling), something like 'do you realize how much misery your husband causes so many people?' and Brenda's character's retort was something like, 'Oh, and I thought that it was just me'. Or another scene in that movie when Zorro had been somewhere that he shouldn't have been and he jumped out of a window, broke his foot, was visited by the head honcho and was doing the running, jumping and skipping in place, to try to prove that his foot wasn't broken and that was before his twin showed up in the movie. I understand that the movie could be offensive, but no one in my household has ever focused on the gay twin who came back to save the day, so to speak, I suppose we just focused on other parts of the movie. Or perhaps the gay twin wasn't our focus.

I'm sorry that you're pissed beyond belief. I haven't seen two of the movies that you referenced, To Sir with Love being the exception, but Guess Who's Coming to Dinner was also a fav of mine...yes I need to know, and I need to know what is or isn't offensive and why.

While you may not realize that I mean no offense, please do believe that I'm trying to understand.

[Sapphocrat]

11. tnlefty, I DO understand.

And I'm sorry if I was harsh. Really. You are among the gentlest, most sincere DUers I've ever had the fortune of running across. And I can be (and am) a total B-word, especially when I feel am the one who has failed, completely, in trying to get other foks past the most rudimentary understanding of what's OK, and what's not, so we can move onto more important goals, together.

Christ, I sound like a self-important, know-it-all moron. I just get -- and this is completely my fault -- impatient because I expect everyone to understand what is offensive... and then I realize I have failed in explaining it. But I will forge ahead anyway....

That said...

Just the phrase "stereotypical (blank)" is what gets under my skin. I don't like it when it's "stereotypically..." gay, or black, or Italian, or Jewish, or Aboriginal. You shouldn't like it either.

Here's why: Deliverance. Or Mississippi Burning. Or To Kill a Mockingbird. Or take your pick of any movie that puts the South (no matter the state) in the worst possible light.

I know those films don't represent the average Southerner any more than, say, those vile excuses for human beings in Tupelo (i.e., the American Family Association). But if I did -- if I accepted the idea without question that there is a "stereotypical Southerner" (the toothless, rapist hillbilly; the cross-burning white supremacist; the N-word-hating would-be lynchers) -- wouldn't it hurt you to the core? Wouldn't it make you want to throw your hands in the air, cuss your lungs out, and wonder what's the use?

Those stereotypes are not you. And I would never, in a hundred thousand years, ever believe they were.

So... "stereotypical gay"... Yeah, that hurts, a lot. Not because there are no flaaaming gay men, or super-butch lesbians, but because there is no average, no median, that fits into some sort of textbook definition.

We're just who we are -- you, me, and the people we haven't met yet. We're far more much alike than we are different. So when I hear "stereotypical," I'm, like... Is that as far as we've come... nowhere?

So you understand what I mean? A bit, maybe?

[tnlefty]

12. I don't perceive you as being harsh, and I unintenionally

stuck my typing fingers in the ole foot in the mouth and I apologize. I think I've referenced that before.

But what you've mentioned is what a lot of us are pushing back against, and it seems (in this state anyway) that we're losing ground. I often feel like telling the republicans here who voted to turn the General Assembly crimson, 'thanks for propelling the state of TN back to the 18th century', and I've said it to a few.

A friend showed up at the funeral home when my father died and one of my brothers said after I'd hugged my friend and he walked off to speak to other relatives, "he's flaming", and even though I knew what he meant I stated, "I don't know what you're talking about". He and another brother tried to explain and I kept playing dumb to make them keep talking and to realize how stupid they sounded on their own without confronting them at our father's visitation. They gave up.

I don't use flaming nor flamboyant when I speak, but it was fun to watch them squirming. I'm still not getting it, and I need help. I'm trying, and I mean that.

I watched What Happens Live on Bravo last night just because Tabatha Coffey (who I respect) and RuPaul (who I've adored for years) were on.

Is it offensive if I state that RuPaul pisses me off because he does hair and makeup better than I could ever hope to? I adore him, but he can pull off the make up and style better than I, and it does irritate me a little bit.....sucks to be me?

[Sapphocrat]

13. No, I'm the one who needs to apologize.

And I do. Apologize, that is. I am so wrapped up in my own world, one that is a half-century of "Why doesn't EVERYONE get it?!", that I forget that not everyone else lives in this world.

Whatever you want to know, tnlefty, you have my undivided attention, although, bear in mind, I speak only for myself -- and that not everyone in my world is as frustrated and bitter as I am. But if you have questions, I will endeavor to do my best to explain, from my P.O.V.

Btw, I have no bloody clue who Tabatha Coffey is. LOL

[tnlefty]

14. If I spelled her name correctly, Tabatha, is a hair stylist,,,

an out lesbian who for a few years had a show on Bravo TV called Tabatha's Salon Takeover. She would go into failing salons and try to turn them around. Have you seen Gordon (spelliing) Ramsey's chef's programs? Tabatha's shows were a lot like his without the immediate bleeps.

Anyway, her show has been re-done to Tabetha's Take Over, and her last episode she was at a bar named Ripples, the first gay bar in Long Beach, CA, that needed a new attitude. That was the show that I saw before seeing her and RuPaul on 'What's Happening Live.'

Please understand that I'm trying to 'get it', and please understand that I've been screeching for years that treating citizens of the US as second tiered citizens is wrong. That much I 'get'. And I will never forget being at at democratic gathering in Nashville and hearing Lincoln Davis state...'They can't out-God me, out-Gay me, and out-gun me." I was so fucking stunned, as were others around me, that my jaw was dropping, and I never applauded. There were lots of folks who seemed confused after that statement...

I'm frustrated and a times bitter by what politicians do or don't do, but it can't compare to what you and your partner live through. I DO have a brother and a SIL who lived through the nightmare that a lot of gay couples experience in a small way....

they were in FL on vacation and my now SIL collapsed and was taken to the ER...because they weren't married my brother couldn't speak for her so her adult children had to go to FL...

Shortly after that experience, my brother and his now wife went to the Justice of the Peace to get married...I use that example a lot...a lot....a lot....