Good Lord -- a LTTE about Ohio's proposed anti-gay laws (sigh)

[theHandpuppet]

Y'know, I don't know if it would even do any good to pen a rebuttal to a letter such as this one....

From the online edition of the Portsmouth (Ohio) Daily Times: http://www.portsmouth-dailytimes.com/articles/2006/03/07/news/letters_to_the_editor/1letters_statepol.txt

House bill outlawing homosexual couples to adopt should pass

I am writing about the new House Bill 515. I truly hope for the well being of the children in the state of Ohio this bill will be passed and go into effect as soon as possible.

Anyone in his/her right mind knows that God did not want these sexually abnormal people to have children. God wanted man and woman to populate the Earth, and he thought it was good. If a same-sex couple can't produce a baby, it may be because it's just not possible for it to happen and God meant it to be that way.

What kind of message is this going to send to the kids who will have them for parents? Believe me, I know kids have it rough; my husband and I have custody of four of our grandchildren. Just because protective services says it is OK for a child to live with someone does not mean they like it there. They may have fun and do things they could never do again, but they would rather have a normal family atmosphere than two moms or two dads.

We want to remember what this country was based on. The Bible states it is wrong for a man to lay with another man and wrong for a woman to lay with another woman. Has the Bible changed? I think it also states in there, too, that God always stays the same, never changing.

So I say go ahead and pass House Bill 515. The children of Ohio need it. Allow families, real normal families, that can't have children to adopt.

XXXXXXXXX

West Portsmouth

[terrya]

1. Hate at it's most blatant.

And this woman appears not to have read the Bible at all. It says nothing about "and wrong for a woman to lay with another woman"

This is homophobia of the very worst kind. One just doesn't know where to begin with this. Who says, for instance, that that kid would "rather have a normal family atmosphere than two moms or two dads". Tell that to the kid where there's an abusive family situation. Or that mentally retarded child or child dealing with Down's Syndrome or child that's HIV+ who's been given up for adoption. In those circumstances, would that child be so disgusted by the idea of a loving family with two moms or two dads?

I've been sort of...I don't know...non-plussed over the past day or so here at DU...reading some comments from some DU'ers about homophobia and "Brokeback Mountain" and how, by golly, we're all a bunch of silly billys distressing over homophobia in this country. Well, here's homophobia, folks. Right in that letter to the editor. And I don't think it's anything trivial at all. It's a blight on this country's soul. And to use children to justify your hate is dispicable.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. Oh, it is real

that's why it is important for us to give safe haven to all, and to honor diversity.

[Dark]

30. I wouldn't say it's hatred.

I'd say it's just stupidity and ignorance mixed together.

[wakeme2008]

2. One good point about a letter like this is it makes ppl see

how crazy these ppl are. Just IMHO.

[zbdent]

3. Maybe if those people who "can't have children" really would adopt

instead of spending a ton of money on fertility pills and having "litters" (a "litter family" in Ohio now has a weekly column in the Akron Beacon Journal), maybe all these kids would have a home, and there would be nobody left for loving gay couples to be able to adopt . . . (especially the "unwanted kids" that these "litter families" tend to forget about . . .)

[BoneDaddy]

7. Tell me about it

I caught this commercial for a program of a family with 16 kids and the first thing I thought of was not "how amazing and wonderful" that was as the commercial was leaning towards, but "what the hell is wrong with those people?" My wife said, "what are they trying to prove?".

I mean is this supposed to be some badge of honor to be fertile and stupid? Christ, we are obviously still stuck on this Christian nonsense of "go forth and prosper" in the modern world.

The thing that struck me was how the hell can you really give those kids what they need. It is emotionally impossible. I have two children and find myself exhausted by the end of the evening just giving my love and care to two. This is pretty unfair to the kids.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. They don't even have their Bible straight,

as it doesn't say anything about a woman lying with a woman. I wonder if the poster sees the irony--he or she is taking care of grandkids because their heterosexual offspring did zip in the parenting department. Personally, I'd rather have an orphan in a loving home, and that is what matters.

[Glorfindel]

9. Um, I believe it does mention "woman lying with a woman"

(at least by implication) - see St. Paul's letter to the Romans, Chapter 1, Verses 26 & 27:

"26 ¶ For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet."

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. depends on interpretation

I always thought that referred to anal sex rather than vaginal sex; in those times, this would be "against nature" because no children could result from the former.

[ConcernedCanuk]

6. "I don't know if it would even do any good to pen a rebuttal to a letter"

.
.
.

A couple of comments on that line

1. It CAN'T do any good if you DON'T pen a letter

2. If your rebuttal gets published - it certainly WILL do some good

3. If your rebuttal DOESN'T get published, you tried - and besides - you can e-mail copies of your rebuttal to your friends and acquaintances - and maybe another dozen newspapers or so - hmmmm ?

As to the issue - "alternate lifestyles" - boys with boys, girls with girls, etc.

There are many creatures in nature that have "same-sex" relationships. Doubters of that statement can google it for themselves, I'm not about to fill this post with all that data.

As for sex for procreation, yeah, but not ALL sex hasta be just for that purpose - especially us humans. We have circumvented Mother Nature's "survival of the fittest" control to prevent over-populating, - and if every fertile man and woman had a child every time they "fornicated" ??

The planet simply could not feed us - and we'd destroy more species trying to feed ourselves as the planet deteriorated under our needs (is that what we are doing now?).

I have watched many monogamous, heterosexual, bible-thumping parents raise unhappy children, and conversely single parents raising great kids -
it has nothing to do with the particular "arrangement" - but on the quality of the people doing the child-rearing methinks . . .

Just My Canuk Thoughts . .

[theHandpuppet]

12. I've written plenty of LTTE to the Portsmouth Daily Times, thanks

Not that it has done much good. The only "direct" response to any of them was an attack on "outsiders" writing LTTEs to the local paper. (I was born amd raised in Portsmouth, but now live in WV and read the PDT online.) I can tell you that this particular LTTE is an accurate reflection of attitudes in this poverty-stricken area. Logic has little to do with debating folks like this.

[ConcernedCanuk]

17. "Logic has little to do with debating folks like this." -

.
.
.

I'm afraid I think I'd stretch that to "Logic has little to do with dealing with the whole present USA Administration"

Threaten, bribe, coerce, stifle, etc. seems to be SOP down there lately

(sigh)

[BOSSHOG]

8. The letter bases its objective on the bible

THE BIBLE IS NOT THE LAW OF THE LAND - PERIOD. It does not matter what a citizen "believes" God would or would not want. Wonder why they got custody of the grandkids? Cause they did a piss poor job as heterosexual parents?

The bible also states that those who work on the sabbath should be stoned to death. The letter is another example of cherry picking by the religiously insane.

[BR_Parkway]

10. God obviously wanted those children to grow up in dire circumstances

of not having parents if the children are now available for adoption. The State of Ohio should not try to usurp God's will by allowing any adoptions, God obviously wants those children to fend for themselves and if they die, then it's part of his mysterious plan.

Has the Bible changed? I think it also states in there, too, that God always stays the same, never changing.

Amen.

I bet the paper wouldn't print that as a rebuttal, but it's the logical extension of her arguement.

[theHandpuppet]

11. Or perhaps God designed gay folks....

... specifically to be available to adopt those children thrown away/abused by some unfit heterosexual parents. (To counter the letter writer's logic.)

The proposed law in Ohio would not only prohibit gays from adopting, but from even being foster parents. Better, I suppose, that children be left to languish in orphanages than be welcomed into a loving gay home.

[the arkansas liberal]

20. I love this post.

love it love it love it....thanks, Handpuppet...

[theHandpuppet]

21. You're welcome

Perhaps it may provide a rebuttal the next time a homophobe pulls out those same tired arguments against gays adopting children. Just remember, according to them God doesn't make mistakes. So we all serve a higher purpose, do we not?

[VaYallaDawg]

32. I'm starting to wonder if God didn't design gay folks

just as a wedge-weapon for KKK Rove to use to keep the RW in power.

[Kerrytravelers]

13. Before they passed on, I had some family living in Portsmouth.

This area is poverty-stricken. Many of the major stores my mother remembers from her childhood shut down years ago. Jobs are scarce and low-paying.

But, instead of questioning the economy or how they got there, instead of working to improve the area and actively fighting for businesses to come to Portsmouth, they instead occupy their minds with people's personal business. (I didn't get this opinion from the above letter, but from actually knowing the area and some of the "people" living there.)

[theHandpuppet]

26. The "Ohio Reformation Project" has been hitting Portsmouth pretty hard

Count on Rwingers and fundie preachers to prey on the poor and the desperate like a flock of ravenous vultures. It's an abomination. It drives me crazy to see people who have lost everything get manipulated into being the frontline soldiers in this crusade of hate.

For those of you unfamiliar with the "Ohio Reformation Project", visit http://www.ohiorestorationproject.com/

This is serious stuff in Ohio politics folks, not just some little whack job group. These people are organized and well funded. To taste the full measure of their gay hating, make sure you click on the "Overview" link. BTW, they'll be having an event in Columbus tomorrow, with Ken Blackwell and J.C.Watts among the keynote speakers.

[Kerrytravelers]

27. In a way, I'm glad my family members didn't live to see this.

It would have killed them. It really would have.

It is so sad that hate is bring people together instead of love and compassions and support of one another.

[sui generis]

15. prove it

seriously. Have God send me an email or something. Send a newsclip of God telling us in his own words, recorded live, what he "wants".

Same sex couples CAN produce babies - we do it all the time.

Finally, the bible also says that the penalty for eating shrimp is death, but I don't see this lardbrain out there picketing Red Lobster. She can stuff her buffet bible where the sun don't shine.

Maybe she should worry a little more about her family and a little less about ours - we've got it covered, even with bigots like her making it harder.

[ripple]

16. I wonder if her kids LOST custody of their own kids

That should say something about her parenting skills, as the courts usually need a pretty compelling reason to remove a kid from the custody of his/her biological parents.

This letter is so laughable, I can't help but wonder if it was sent from someone who opposes the measure, just to illuminate the ignorance of those who support it.

[theHandpuppet]

19. No, this letter is pretty indicative of local attitudes

Unfortunately. What can you say when you read letters like this in an Ohio county that distinguishes itself by ranking highest in poverty rate, soaringly high teenage pregnancy rate, staggering unemployment and underemployment, number of kids on Medicaid, etc. ? My heart still resides in that part of Appalachian Ohio and it breaks my heart to see the despair and decay throughout all the towns and villages in that part of the state. All I can figure is that the church has been the one constant in many of these folks' lives. Politicians and promises come and go, but the church -- however misguided the message -- is always there for them in ways that many of us cannot possibly measure. But that's another discussion for another time. As a gay person I'm also sorry that I could never go home again and feel comfortable just being myself, but mostly I feel sorry for the kids.

[the arkansas liberal]

18. Wait, wait... what about straight couples

who cannot have children? Shouldn't they also be stricken from the adoption lists? Her closing sentence makes no sense when you follow her inane line of 'logic.' After all, if you simply read this hate-mail thoroughly, then if a couple cannot, "...populate the Earth..." or "...can't produce a baby..." then surely "...God meant it to be that way." Great. So now only opposite-sex couples who are able to procreate will be allowed to adopt. As if the numbers of these available children weren't already tragic enough...

[Meldread]

22. Woah, listen here, bitch.

First of all, most of the children who are taken away from their homes are children who have parents who are incapable of taking care of them, either because the parents have severe problems which impair their parenting ability, or the fact that the parents were neglectful or harmed the children in some way. (Burning them with cigarettes, not feeding them and the like.) Guess what? Those are the good ole "normal people" you want to send those children to live with.

What do you know about what "God" wants? Last time I checked God didn't need someone speaking for him, and I know that because obviously unlike you I've read the damn Bible, and believe me - when God wanted to get a point across he didn't do much talking. He just killed a bunch of people and left a cryptic message like, "Yeah, and next time... don't do whatever you were doing."

And what about your own damn family? I have to wonder why a court would award you with four of your grandchildren when you so obviously failed with your own children, that they couldn't keep custody of them in the first place. After all, it was Jesus who said "Hypocrite, first take the beam out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly how to remove the splinter from your brother's eye." Well, let me be the first to inform you, that you not only have one beam in your eye - you have four of them.

How DARE you, a failed parent, speak up and tell others what parents should and should not be? You, by your own damning words, have failed and have no ground to stand on.

In short: Go to hell.

(I would send this letter if it actually had any hope of getting published.)

[xchrom]

23. this woman is nuts -- and here's the proof.

''We want to remember what this country was based on. The Bible states it is wrong for a man to lay with another man and wrong for a woman to lay with another woman. Has the Bible changed? I think it also states in there, too, that God always stays the same, never changing.''

notice how she believes in a static world view.

a thing that cannot change -- a point of view that allows for no variablity -- that allows for no new ''truth'' to come in.

that's how crazy people think and believe.

[sakabatou]

24. Lets see here...

Paragraph 1: Sure, use the pedophile card. :sarcasm:
Paragraph 2: Maybe your God, but not the rest of the world. What about people who are married but don't want or have children? Are they as bad as gays?
Paragraph 3: Pedophile card again. Doesn't speak for children of same-sex couples.
Paragraph 4: Making shit up. America built on freedom, not oppression (though having slaves does contradict this...)

[davidinalameda]

25. what kind of normal atmosphere is it for kids to live with grandparents

and I don't understand how anyone who says they're Christian can presume to know what God does or does not want

[NMMNG]

28. She should have proofread her letter before sending it

Because she would have realized how foolish she sounds:


What kind of message is this going to send to the kids who will have them for parents? Believe me, I know kids have it rough; my husband and I have custody of four of our grandchildren. Just because protective services says it is OK for a child to live with someone does not mean they like it there.



Are you suggesting that just because protective services says it's OK for your four grandchildren to live with you does not mean they like it there? :shrug:



They may have fun and do things they could never do again, but they would rather have a normal family atmosphere than two moms or two dads.

1. How do you know what total strangers would prefer?
2. So you suggest that children would be better off languishing in group homes instead of being adopted by loving couples who just happen to be same-gendered?
3. You're suggesting that four kids being raised by their grandparents is a "normal family atmosphere"?



And don't even get me started on the Buy-Bull again. :eyes:

[BR_Parkway]

29. Not to mention what kind of "normal family atmosphere" those kids

had before the grandparents got custody

God obviously wanted her grandchildren to suffer and be in an orphanage, that's why he made their 'normal' parents do whatever lost them custody. How dare these arrogant grandparents step in and thwart the will of God. No one but a damned activist Judge would have allowed this blasphemy to occur.

[keithkam]

31. If you thought that letter was bad,

try getting through this irrational jabber.

http://www.dispatch.com/editorials-story.php?story=dispatch/2006/02/27/20060227-A8-07.html