Has anyone seen "V for Vendetta" yet? (Warning: Spoilers)

[swimmernsecretsea]

I just saw it last night.

Warning: Spoilers ahead...

When Evie is imprisoned, she finds concealed in a broken patch of concrete in the wall a note written by a previous prisoner, a woman named Valerie who died in the same cell. Before she died, she had written her biography on a small bit of paper. In it, she describes her growing up and realizing that she loves women. She is rejected by her parents and has to live on her own. After she becomes an actress, she meets another woman who she loves and settles down with. Together, they see the government and society start to crumble around them. Finally, her partner is seized and killed by police. Valerie herself is imprisoned and becomes the subject of a sinister medical experiment, which eventually kills her. Evie is so moved by her story that she weeps, and it brings her the resolve to defy her captor enough to face death without fear.

Anyone who has seen the movie will know what happens to this incident in context, so I won't review that part.

I saw it with a group of (mostly straight) people who were very moved by Valerie's tale. All of them admitted having shed a few tears during this sequence.

In another incident in the film, Evie takes refuge in the home of Dietrich, who hosts a show at the television network where she works. While she is being shown around a secret room he has, containing a variety of objects including a caricature of the Prime Minister, she is startled to see some homoerotic photographs displayed there. Dietrich reveals that he has had to hide his homosexuality for fear of government prosecution.

I wasn't at all familiar with the graphic novel before seeing this movie, but I have to go find it now. What most surprised me was that the driving force behind V, Evie, and Dietrich, was the need for justice for those of whom they loved who had died or been persecuted for their being gay, even while they themselves aren't. Also, that everyone I was with was so moved by these stories, and understood how they could feel this way.

[MadMaddie]

1. It was a great movie!!!

I think what you detailed is a key element of the movie, I also think that the government intentionally poisening the children (Evie's young brother) and intentionally letting them die.....and then all of a sudden having the antidote spoke volumes of the corruption of government...
and what the government was willing to do to keep the sheep passive with Fear!!

The lead government religious fundamentalist had stocks in the pharmaceutical companies and made billions off of the deaths of the children... (Frist comes to mind)

The national TV station (Fox News)spouting lies day in and day to stoke the fear in the populace...

This movie will be talked about for years....

[swimmernsecretsea]

2. Isn't it interesting how

we have a number of films which mirror or obliquely reference current events or observations in society? I really believe it is the zeitgeist speaking.

Just a couple that come to mind: "The Constant Gardener" "The Day After Tomorrow"

[MadMaddie]

7. I agree...and these films and books scare the neocons

because they do not want the populace to realize that the real power is with the people.

[MountainLaurel]

12. Although interestingly

The original graphic novel was written in response to Maggie Thatcher's rule in Britain. How prescient that author was in predicting where it would lead.

[swimmernsecretsea]

13. I recall reading that.

"Thatcher the Snatcher" was her nickname in the press for her penchant for reducing social programs and pulling funding out of government programs. I never had firsthand knowledge of how awful she could be. Just the reputation in the press was bad enough. The parallels to the movie and the US are pretty close.

[JackBeck]

3. Rummy comes to mind as well.

He made millions off of Tamiflu, even though it might not work to combat the Bird Flu. He's been a board member for a few Pharma companies.

[sui generis]

4. I certainly understand the urge

for vendetta, and I know I am not alone.

There is a reason they made Shepard's killers wear bulletproof vests, although that was more for drama than reality, but there are a lot of us who are not going to go all ghandi on an attacker's ass, and that includes the proverbial mob.

But I understand it - as do any of us who have had a car full of idiots drive by and scream "faggot" or read yet another story buried in the back pages about one of us getting our brains bashed in or cut up in a motel room or hung on a fence or a religious fatwa for our deaths issued by a "moderate" Iraqi political leader.

Not a victim at all, just pissed off -

[Democrats_win]

17. There are victims and then there are Victims

Anyone carring out a vendetta, must remember that a measured response is required. When someone calls us names, it would not be justified to do anything other than yell back.

V's vendetta is carried out against people who killed thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of people. Although Evey does ask if V's killings are justified, V is certain they are. Even one of his victims, a lady doctor, accepts her fate as both punishment and release from her miserable life.

They also mention the Count of Monte Cristo which is about vengeance that isn't completely carried out. V follows this path allowing Evey, representing the average person who suffered under the fascists, to decide if the final domino of the vendetta should fall. The ideas about vendetta are an important part of this and should be discussed.

[sui generis]

20. well, technically vendetta is not my cup of tea

I'd rather nip the drama in the bud to begin with - so people yelling faggot in a car get their license plate looked up in public records and all manner of legal authoritarian evil by me.

But al Sistani calling for the murder of gays by the most horrible methods possible, that's a complex problem. Do we wait until more of us are murdered? Do we condone our government's silent assent to these statements? A preemptive strike is not vendetta.

These are just words today, and can be met with words today, but the fact of the matter is that my words won't result in anyone's death "by the most horrible method possible". I can understand that polar bears eat people. I expect fundamentalist clerics to call for the death of gays and brazen women.

I do not expect America to give silent assent to this novel idea in this proud new "democracy" in Iraq. America's words would count more than any unseemly action an individual could take, yet America does not comdemn the statement.

How sad.

[DinahMoeHum]

5. You can get the graphic novel at any good bookstore.

I've read the novel and will see the movie in 1-2 days. It'll be interesting to see how the Wachowski (??) sibs adapted this for the screen.

Just a fair warning: you may have a bit of trouble midway through the book, as there are an awful lot of "cockney" spellings and pronunciations involved.

:smoke:

[ohio_graduate]

6. much more

I agree with what was said, but that was not their sole motivation. V is also on a personal vendetta for what they did to him. He was abused and experimented on in the camp. That is why he goes about and personally kills the people that he does. Also, Evey is taught to live without fear.

As for the graphic novel, it is WAY different then the movie. It is clear that the motivations are different. Mainly the stuff about Dietrich is 100% different. I could explain, but that would spoil the book.

Still the story about Valarie is in the book and is just as moving.

[swimmernsecretsea]

8. You're more correct in your description than I

It is one of the driving forces, but it is something that they seem to have in common. It will be interesting to see how the graphic novel compares. I'll have to go to Borderlands bookstore today to find a copy.

[file83]

9. Yes, I saw it - and I too was moved by that aspect of the story...

...but don't leave out that Evie's parents were also taken away, but for different reasons.

I think the reason the writers chose to discuss the persecution of gays as a repeating theme makes perfect sense. In a world where people are left almost no choice but to conform to the dictates of the state, sexuality is one of the only human traits that cannot be crushed. In the society depicted in "V for Vendetta", heterosexuals could possibly be intimidated into renouncing their beliefs (religious, political) and forced to conform (and never be persecuted for their sexuality). But people with different sexual orientations would never be able to make that change and be "whole" human beings. One could attempt to deny it, crush it, closet it, or whatever, but that person would always be a fractured human being and would always be driven to rebel against that fascist society.

So, I think that those anecdotes in the movie are a logical inevitability - that some of the most creative and secretive dissenters against the system depicted in "V for Vendetta" (where heterosexuality is allowed) would be gay citizens. The heterosexual dissenters would have to be strong willed with both an exceptional capacity for empathy (of their persecuted gay copatriots) AND an incorruptible moral compass that is not easily fooled by the propaganda attempting to draw them into conformity.

In contrast, Orwell's 1984, the dystopian society depicted in that story attempts to crush ALL sexuality, not just orientations differing from heterosexuality. And so we see in 1984, too, that it is human sexuality (in this case heterosexuality) that causes the protagonist (Winston Smith) to rebel against the system, to seek love and sensuality.

But in both stories, "V" & "1984", it isn't just sexuality that motivates, it's love. Love. That human emotion to feel connected to another. The emotion that gives us hope. The emotion that makes us human, not monsters. The emotion that allows us to recognize the hate fueling the controlling mechanisms behind a fascist state.

[swimmernsecretsea]

10. I very much agree

It isn't just the expression of freedom of sexual diversity, which is certainly addressed by Dietrich's character. I think what surprised and made me feel emotional was that even though Valerie's sequence was very short, it packed a great emotional impact. What my friends could relate to was the depth and feeling of Valerie's love. I've heard people I know, including LGBT people, say they understood why Brokeback Mountain didn't win the Academy Award because Crash is more universal for the illustration of racial disharmony. My internal response is "What about love? Isn't that even more universal and understood?"

What motivated me to write was being in a packed movie theater for a blockbuster with a group of mostly straight people and seeing everyone react emotionally to a story line I never expected to find. Come on, Hollywood! Let's do this more.

[davidinalameda]

11. you gotta bring up Brokeback

:)

:bounce:

[undergroundpanther]

14. I want to see this movie

But I have PSTD.. Are there really graphic rapes/assaults? torture? How graphic is it?
I am so sad about missing alot of great movies out there creative stories ..because I can't deal with alot of agonized ,very explicit violent torture or rape scenes, Triggers me.

Last move that I saw of the sort that V vendetta sounds like violence wise was Sin City.I had no idea Sin City was about torture and pedophilia.I expected a gumshoe story a film nior thing.
The ending was a good closure but the movie was really hard for me to watch emotionally until the end.The illustrative effects of the film was very cool it is this comic quality that made the movie bearable.
But it disturbed me and I have stayed away from movies I suspect could be graphic about rape, pedophilia, trauma and torture.

I wonder why is our society desensitizing itself to empathy by being'entertained' by trauma? I wonder why "trauma sells". What is happening to us with this kind of thing shown all the time in movies,graphic depictions of death, torture,sadism,rape,humiliation,sickness ect..Today every aspect of human ugliness and misery is glorified these days..Why?

The older movies did not explicitly show such emotionally traumatizing ,dehumanizing stuff as "entertaining".Your imagination made the point crystal clear of what happened in the scene without showing it in such morbid detail.And it worked,rape was implied,you didn't see it in such gruesome detail enough to give you nightmares and paranoia fits for a week it didn't invade your thoughts and dreams like an intrusive trauma memory long after the movie was over...

Why do movie makers have to show trauma up close,in such a porno like way,in every excruciating ugly detail?
Are Americans THAT desensitized to feeling or 'imagining'others pain,that they really don't get the idea someone is suffering trauma unless the subject of the film is writhing right before their eyes helpless before some asshole attacker intent on shattering their soul and torturing them for kicks or corruption? Are Americans that emotionally dense?

Some asshole republicans think Abu Gharib and Gitmo seem like college pranks,I guess it can seem that way to fortunate desensitized people who have never been traumatized themselves or who chose to identify with abusers because they feel so scared..Hollywood has a part in creating the cultural desensitizing,swaggering bully egoism and paranoid fear.. the Bush administration is exploiting....Some of that effects of desensitizing can boomerang back to hit us gay people you know.

[Lilith Velkor]

15. It's not as severe as Sin City

I had some bad moments.

>The ending was a good closure but the movie was really hard for me to watch emotionally until the end.<

I had the same reaction to Sin City. V for Vendetta was not much easier, even though I had read the book and knew what to expect.

I guess I'm still a little triggered, but I also feel validated, because everyone in the theater, and in all the theaters elsewhere, has gotten a taste of what I have been through. And if this film makes even one person stop and think about the consequences of letting bullies have their way, it's a good thing.

So I guess I'd recommend it if you want to deliberately induce catharsis.

[swimmernsecretsea]

16. I'd advise against viewing it, based upon your message.

There are just too many intense scenes of brutality and violence. The violence is not horror-movie graphic, but it is bloody. Also a large portion of the film is devoted to a trial as described above that Evie goes through, where she is imprisoned and threatened with violence.

I'm sorry to hear that you've had to live through PTSD. I have it myself, and have flashbacks from violent films. It's understandable you would want to avoid this film for that reason. I also agree that it's not always necessary in entertainment, and is used too often. There are many other places to find entertainment that won't create such difficulties for you. I understand and hope you're able to find a way to live comfortably with your past trauma without feeling that you are missing out on anything. Many artists today do not have violence and threats in their palette of tools.

[AlienGirl]

19. I found it very triggering

I should have brought my anti-anxiety pills with me. There is some torture, no rape that I recall, no pedophilia. However, if you have any degree of medical phobia, it'll break your head. Given what's in my brain, it hit several really big buttons.

It was also really *good*, and I'd see it again (with my Klonopin and knowing at what points I need to shut my eyes).

Tucker (returned to regularly scheduled nightmares)

[Democrats_win]

18. Novel based on the screenplay is awesome!

It is so much fun to see V's alliterations with the letter "v" and all the unexpected places where that vonderful letter pops up. The novel by Steven Moore is really easy to read but it keeps you on the edge of your seat. The novel is a companion to the movie and contains very modern references to our current situation. This should not be confused with the original graphic novel that's been mentioned.

The novel ends with some wonderful ideas about government existing for the people. People are the ones who live and suffer. Aparently in our "Ulcered Sphincter of Assmerica," the govenment exists for the corporation and false religion.