Invitation to lesbian artist sparks Methodist dispute

[kweerwolf]

Members of the United Methodist Church are pushing to get Indigo Girls musician Emily Saliers disinvited as a keynote speaker at a religious conference, arguing that it's inappropriate for a lesbian to address the group.

Saliers is expected to speak and sing at the United Methodist Women's Assembly in Anaheim with her father, theologian Don Saliers. The two will discuss music and spirituality, the topic of a book they've co-written.

``Emily Saliers' open practice of lesbianism and her promotion of the acceptance of the lifestyle is contrary to church teaching,'' said L. Faye Short, president of the Renew Network, an evangelical women's group within the church. Renew has organized a petition letter asking the United Methodist Women's Division board to revoke the invitation. The board, meeting in Connecticut, will discuss the matter on Sunday.

The United Methodist Church does not condone homosexuality, though the church also says gay people should not be discriminated against. Consequently, both sides are citing church teachings to justify why Emily Saliers' invitation should be sustained or rejected.

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/14240290.htm?source=rss&channel=mercurynews_local

Consequently, both sides are citing church teachings to justify why Emily Saliers' invitation should be sustained or rejected.

I guess that's what happens when you have one of those namby-pamby denominations that speaks out of both sides of its mouth at once.

[jody]

1. "speaks out of both sides of its mouth" or a denomination that's divided?

I expect many denominations are divided on this issue.

[kweerwolf]

2. Divided because it speaks out of both sides of it's mouth.

The Methodist Church's liberal western and northeastern conferences and it's moderate conferences in between have long been held hostage by the fundie-inspired ravings of its southeastern conference. Rather than standing up to the ignorance and bigotry of the southern Methodists, the church has tried to placate both sides and satisfied no one. The ball-less leadership of the church is to blame for such situtations when both sides cite the same rules to back up their positions. It's about time they stood up to the bigots in the southern conference and told them, 'Fine! Go schism yourselves!'

[jody]

4. IMO, more progress is possible by remaining as is and discussing issues.

I expect most denominations have one or more issues that could cause a breakup but once separated, it becomes nearly impossible to reunite. For example, the Orthodox and Roman Catholic split and the Sunni Islam and Shia Islam split.

I favor remaining together so that time can heal even if it takes millenniums. :shrug:

[kweerwolf]

5. Having grown up in the Methodist Church ...

... and felt first-hand what it's like to have one's church struggle with deciding whether you are worthy enough to be a member, I hope you understand that ono a personal level I chose not to hang around to see what the final outcome would be. I've seen adulterers, thieves, child and spouse abusers, and a whole host of other "sinners" welcomed into full participation in the church. When the church in effect said, "Whoa ... we've got to consider whether you're good enough to be one of us," it was time for me to go.

[jody]

7. You felt uncomfortable and left the church. OK, but people leave their

churches all the time for various reasons. However, that's a personal decision and separate from leaving a denomination intact so it can discuss divisive issues.

If people left the Democratic Party because of a single divisive issue, I doubt we would be large enough to have an impact at the ballot box.

[kweerwolf]

8. Count me as one who's ready to leave the Democratic party ...

... and it's in very large part because I'm tired of being considered an "issue."

Tax cuts, foreign policy, Social Security, the war in Iraq ... those are all issues.

LGBT folks are not issues, but people. Being gay or lesbian isn't an issue, it's a matter of our identities. And far too many people already think that since we are an "issue," we can easily be put on the back burner (or better yet, out of sight). It also strikes many of us in the LGBT community as more than a bit patronizing ... especially when we hear it from straight folks who already have the right that we have been struggling to attain.

[jody]

9. I understand, but before you leave the Dem Party, ask yourself whether

you can have more impact on government within or outside the Party?

There are several Dem positions that I oppose completely but I don't know of another political party that is better than the Dem Party for me.

I'll remain a Yellow Dog Democrat and continue to push my party to be more understanding of my views.

I hope you'll remain a Democrat and work on those issues that most concern you. :hi:

[kevinbgoode]

10. Excuse me...but we are talking about someone's life and identity here

and there is nothing that irritates me more than a bunch of straight people who gossip/debate/discuss others as if they aren't in the damned room. This isn't some major issue for the Methodist church- the woman was asked to come SPEAK with her father, for chrissakes...not become ordained as a minister, not head up the damned church. Are you trying to tell me that the entire Methodist church runs a stupid inquisition on EVERY speaker to see if they have ever broken and asked for forgiveness any church "law?"

The point here is that not discriminating means just that. . .not discriminating. This woman should not be held to a different standard than any other church member who could be asked to speak - and don't try to tell me that everyone else in that denomination doesn't sin or has asked forgiveness for all their sins. This is a bunch of utter crap - and there is truly nothing to have a dialogue about - their protest over this co-speaking invitation is based on nothing but hateful bigotry and meanness. And I'd like to know why the rest of your church doesn't have the balls to call this petition-organizer on HER sins? Huh? Why don't you screen all the people ATTENDING the conference for their potential sinful behaviors?

I just have no respect for people who attempt to placate a bunch of whining bigots. You give in to them now and then what? You can NEVER invite any gay person to speak at the church, out of fear of ruffling these little evangelical feathers? So you'll ask the gay Methodists to be held hostage and use them as a sacrifice to kiss these little bigots' behinds. If you disinvite this woman, I suggest your denomination ALSO disinvite the people who signed the petition. Period. They aren't interested in the conference - they are interested in politics.

[jody]

11. Thanks for your opinion. Have a nice day. n/t

[RC]

3. Why is the gender one loves such a big deal to some?

I'm straight and I have never understood this.

[checks-n-balances]

6. I heard Dr. Saliers speak, a few months before his other daughter died

tragically, just a few years ago. As one who has a few things in common with this family (church leaders involved with music), I'm saddened & disgusted, but not really surprised. This is ridiculous, because she would not be at the event to even mention anything about her own sexuality or about homosexuality; besides, I thought that the UMC didn't have problems with people being homosexual as long as they don't try to become ministers! The ignorance and meanspiritedness of right-wing "Christians" is astounding to me. Sheesh, these people are acting as though she received her musical talent from Satan and not God!

I'm glad at least the article pointed out that they wrote a book together. The comments below are from a consumer review of it (all in one paragraph) at amazon.com:

Can't get that song out of your head? Neither can they. In their new book "A Song to Sing, A Life to Live" Don Saliers, renowned professor of theology at Emory, and his daughter Emily Saliers, Grammy award winning singer/songwriter of the Indigo Girls, sing in harmony the praises of music and its connection to the soul. They remind us that it is music which generates the vibrating strings of energy connecting us to all living things. Their discussions of how music helps to shape us by connecting us to memories, people, places, and the Divine Source is both uplifting and inspirational. Both Don and Emily provide insights into how music has inspired them and directed their lives not only on a path of self-discovery, but a path of discovering the world around them; a world made visible only through music. This book will make you stop and look at the music you enjoy in a different light. I was deeply moved by the story of a young girl, Sarah, on her death bed waiting to hear Emily, and Indigo Girls partner Amy Ray, sing Emily's "Southland in the Springtime"; dying only hours after the duo finished their song. It made me question why even in death we long to fill our soul with our favorite music, but as Don and Emily point out, the cycle of life moves to music. They remind us that we cannot escape the rhythms with which daily life moves; whether it is the bustle of traffic, the roar of the ocean, or the singing of the birds. Our own bodies would not exist without the heart's intricate beating and the exact rhythm of our breathing. In essence, we are born in rhythm and die in song...

[xchrom]

12. liberal and moderate methodists are going to have to bite the bullet.

schisms are painful -- but change is good.

you cannot argue with people who are anti-gay -- it's irrational - i.e. it's fuckin nuts.

it's a waste of good christian breath to try and talk to vessels of hate and ignorance.

they've declared war on everyone who won't march to their tune.

you may not have to believe as they do -- but you have to do as they tell you.

[Guy Fawkes]

13. "open practice of lesbianism"

Is it like a religion or something now? Is that like open practice of Judaism?

[libnnc]

14. practice does make perfect

:shrug:

I was raised methodist. I wish the church would just split already.

[kweerwolf]

15. Shhh, libnic ...

... You'll upset the breeders who wander into our little gay ghetto periodically to remind us that it's just not our time, that we should be patient even if it takes centuries, and that we don't really count sinice we're just "issues" and therefore not really people at all.

[sui generis]

17. dang

you go boy.

I'm fed up too - in case you've missed any of the running battles in that other forum where we talk about why we vote.

Now you just get your fine little dander back down there missy, we know what's best for you. Selfish selfish little homos wanting their selfish little civil rights, for shame!

[sui generis]

16. here's a question for the dunderheads

what if she didn't do anything at all with her cooter? Would she still be a sinner?

How do they know what she does or doesn't do with her cooter?

Why do they care if she does or doesn't or how she does it, with her cooter?

And if it's not about sex, then what exactly IS it about?

:shrug: