What does your gaydar tell you about Fitz?

[ruggerson]

I'm just sayin'...

[blonndee]

1. Straight.

but my gaydar isn't completely reliable.

[babylonsister]

2. Stop that! I could care less! Why should anyone? nt

[ruggerson]

3. Stop what?

[babylonsister]

7. Who cares what his orientation is? He seems a bit too busy

anyway. :hi:

[ruggerson]

9. We talk about politician's spouses and families here all the time

why can't we talk about Fitz's (potential) ones?

[babylonsister]

12. Because to me it's all 'potential' and nothing solid. If you have

facts, spill them. If not, why start anything?
He's my hero, and I would hate for him to be painted with the
wrong brush.
If he's gay, that's cool and I have no problem with it. But let's be accurate.

[ruggerson]

16. If you don't want to talk about it, skip the thread n/t

:hi:

[pnwmom]

75. Because he's a very attractive man, especially right now to D.U.ers --

sort of a knight in shining armor -- so a lot of women and men are looking at him and fantasizing and wondering . . . is he available? Straight or gay?

Of course this is silly, but pretty harmless if you ask me.

[Janice325]

4. I have gaydar.

I hadn't even thought about it.
Does it matter?

[ruggerson]

6. It's like wondering if he's left handed.

Interesting trivia. He is a public figure, after all.

[noamnety]

5. It's telling me

mind my own business.

[ruggerson]

8. Why is being gay or straight no one elses "business"?

It's not some big, awful secret. It's just another facet of life. That is unless you look at it from a Republican perspective.

[babylonsister]

14. Perhaps some people, whatever their sexuality, don't want to

expose it. Why is that my business, and why should anyone feel the need to chat about it?

[ruggerson]

15. Because we live in a world where people are interested in other people n/t

[noamnety]

28. Not republican. More of a golden rule thing.

Would I be happy to see random strangers speculating about my personal life on the internets? Not so much.

[ruggerson]

45. So I guess you never refer to people's wives, husbands

when you walk past someone's desk at work with a picture of their family displayed, do you shield your eyes?

[noamnety]

57. If they've chosen to make it public information

then it's not so private, is it?

I'll ask about someone's husband, wife, gay partner, whatever, if they've chosen to bring them to work functions or talk about them, sure. But I wouldn't speculate behind their back if my coworker is gay or straight.

You honestly can't see the difference there?

[ruggerson]

64. "speculate behind their back"?

I don't attach a value judgement in asking if someone is gay or straight. To me, it's like asking if they have red hair or blue eyes.

So, no I see no difference there. I see no difference in asking if a co worker is married and asking if they are gay. It's virtually the same question.

[noamnety]

67. I wouldn't speculate if they are married either

If they make the information public, it's something they want to share. If they opt not to make the information public, I assume it's not my business - unless it reflects on their job performance (i.e. hypocritical republicans publicly legislating against something they secretly do in private).

You're trying to make this into a straight vs. gay issue. It's not. It's a private vs. public issue. If you were speculating on the types or ages or shapes of people he dates (rather than the gender), I would have the same exact complaint.

It's a right to privacy issue in the same way that the abortion debate is a right to privacy issue, in the same way that wiretapping is a privacy issue.

I value my privacy. I try to respect other people's privacy. Golden Rule stuff.

[Smarmie Doofus]

10. Be still my heart. n/t

[alphafemale]

11. Run, Kitty! Runn!!!

That's all I'm getting.

He seems about as sexual as clabbered milk.

[amitten]

13. Straight.

Nerdy-straight.

[Southsideirish]

17. Typical Irish bachelor. I know lots of them. He's straight and

will get married in a few more years to a beautiful colleen (who his parents approve of) and have a bunch of cute kids and live happily ever after.

[MADem]

21. They often marry in their mid to late 40s

to a woman not much younger, if at all. Especially the practicing Catholics. Cuts down on the number of rugrats. The days of the 12 child family are long past...

[Catrina]

18. Straight, and besides he has a girlfriend last I heard (sadly)

But what difference does it make? Has he been thrashing gays or something? If he were a hypocrite like many of the rightwingers we all know and love, then it would be relevent. But since he hasn't, so what?

So long as his excellent prosecutorial skills work to bring about much-needed justice for the American people, I don't think people care if he's purple. I think we're all a little beyond that. Unless, as I said, he is a gay-basher, then it's always fun to expose the hypocrisy.

[ruggerson]

20. Why is this treated like I asked if he was an axe murderer?

If you work from the premise that there's absolutely nothing wrong with being gay and that is morally indistinguishable from being straight, then my question would not raise hackles.

If you work from the premise that there is something inherently bad about being gay, then my question is inappropriate and should only be asked in hushed, whispered tones.

I work from the former world perspective and don't give the latter any validity.

[Xeric]

24. How about you?

Well, see now I'm wondering what team you play on.
C'mon spill the beans. Who what where when.
If you're so concerned with everybodies sexuality you have to play the game too.

[Kailassa]

26. Doesn't he make that obvious by asking about Fitzgerald?

After all, he doesn't want to risk getting smacked in the face for propositioning the wrong guy.

[ruggerson]

29. I have no issue with being gay

apparently you do. Which is odd considering where you're posting.

[Xeric]

32. Good for you

But ruggerson, I'm just asking the same question you're asking. Don't get defensive. Inquiring minds want to know.
What issue would I have? I've posted more than a few times here on the GLBT board. I'm just wondering why you want to know about Fitz so bad. If you've got the hots for him just say so. No problem there.

[ruggerson]

34. Nah, he's not my type

but I do pick up on a vibe, and I was wondering if others had picked up on it, too. My gaydar ain't all that infallible.

I think it would be somehow perfect karma if, after everything, a gay guy brought down this vile administration.

It was an innocent question. Too bad a few folks felt the need to respond with not-so-well-disguised homophobia.

[Xeric]

36. I think you are overreacting

It's funny ruggerson but I don't see any homophobia in this thread. It's not hard to find in the world if you're looking for it. But like your first "vibe" your second one doesn't seem too accurate. You've suggested that several people are homophobic based on the fact that they don't think it's a relevant question. That's an honest opinion and I think that the comments suggesting that bringing up the question and speculating about it only gives fodder to the real homophobes is a reasonable assumption. But you do what you think is right. If you wind up alienating people it only hurts you.

[ruggerson]

39. No, it's not funny, it's sad that you don't see the homophobia

It's not an offensive question to ask about someone. I repeat. It's not an offensive question to ask about someone, unless, deep down, you think that there is something wrong with being gay.

Read that and understand it.

[Xeric]

41. you are being stubborn now

If people want to talk about their sexuality that's fine. If they don't that's ok too and you have no god-given right to ask about it. I don't need to know the sexuality of every person in public life. People do have a right to privacy. Your question is not necessarily offensive, but it is pushy and your arrogance in thinking you have a right to ask anybody you like that question or to publicly speculate about it does not speak highly of you.
I've stood up to bigots all my life. I've made no secret of my sexuality. But I think there are times when discretion is not a bad thing. You, I, and others are way more than just sexual beings. It is not the only consideration when judging people nor is it even the most important consideration.
I've also not looked for bigotry when I saw no overt evidence of it. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. I suggest you consider that.

[ruggerson]

44. I don't see musing if someone is gay or straight

as anything even remotely in violation of privacy.

We have discussions about people's OPPOSITE SEX spouses all the time, and never, not once, does someone pipe in saying we shouldn't be discussing their "sexuality." They only do that when we're discussing gay people.

So what's the deal with the double standard? And don't give me that "we live in a homophobic world, so it's ok to talk about who straight people are dating but not who gay people are", because I don't buy it.

The only way to CHANGE a homophobic world is to live in the reality that being gay is no better or no worse than being straight.

[Xeric]

46. It's tacky

Again you are reading into what people are saying things that are not there.
Your "musing" about Fitzgerald's sexuality has no relevance whatsoever to the job he's doing. He's a public figure not because of his sexuality but because he is a prosecutor in a high profile case. What possible reason is there to bring up his sexuality?
There are two possiblities.
One, because a right winger might be seeking to polarize the situation and rally the largely homophobic base, hoping to create a situation where the prosecution might be compromised. Sad but true, if they could get Fox news to start discussing innuendos about his sexuality it would deflect from the case itself. Can you see that that would be a bad thing? Of course that's not what you are doing but you must admit that that would be a typical Rovian tactic.
Two, you just like to gossip. It doesn't matter if you are gossiping about his sexuality, his choice of dining or who does his hair. It's gossip. It's not a revolutionary act. It's just tacky.

[ruggerson]

47. Or three, it was just an idle aside in a GAY forum

which some people took far too seriously, and in the process exposed their real inner feelings about gay people in society.

We talk about straight people's husbands and wives ALL THE TIME in our society and here on DU. And no one ever says "we mustn't discuss that because it has no relevance to the job they're doing." In another political era, If I had posted this about Ken Starr: "Is he married?", I would have gotten a few responses, maybe a jpg of his wife, a couple of people discussing his kids, etc. Not one post would have been "why are you asking that? That's his right to keep that private." There wouldn't have been a bunch of knee jerk posts defending his "privacy".

I don't buy into the double standard. Sorry.

[Xeric]

48. you were the one taking it too seriously

I think people would have said "what does Ken Starr being married or not have to do with anything?" Which is what I would have thought. And that is exactly what people said here. I did not see one post by anybody "exposing their inner feelings about gay people in society" since most of the posters, including myselt ARE GAY.

[ruggerson]

61. No they wouldn't have

and see Meldread's post below to prove my point. Read the link he provides. It speaks volumes.

In addition to his Laura Bush post, which might not be the perfect analogous thread, I have seen HUNDREDS of threads here in the last five years, the titles of which were Is Bush Gay? or Is Lindsey Graham Gay? or Is Scott Mclellan Gay?

Hoardes of upset women did not descend on those threads haughtily denouncing the OP as an invasion of these people's privacy.

Not ONE person ever wrote in those threads "you shouldn't invade George Bush's privacy and ask that question."

Which can only lead me to believe that it's only ok to discuss sexuality here as long as it's a Republican being discussed and you're trying to smear them (thus the underlying attitude being that gay is something "bad" or "wrong")

Discussing whether someone is gay or not is NOT discussing what someone does in bed, that is a point of view propogated by the religious right and has no place in this forum.

Censoring discussion about people's families only perpetuates homophobia. I wrote the OP, as I"ve mentioned, as merely fun, idle musing, not knowing it would turn into a political discussion. But now that it has, it has made me very angry to see the double standard rear its ugly head amongst people who pose as progressives.

[Puglover]

77. Great post Ruggerson. I wish I were as eloquent.

I'm amazed that some people here simply Do. Not. Get. It.

[Kailassa]

52. Nicely put.

:thumbsup:

[Catrina]

33. Well, I disagree with you, I think it's the exact opposite. When being

either gay or straigt doesn't matter to you anymore, you don't even think about the question. It's sort of like asking about someone who is straight, like say eg, Elliot Spitzer - 'does he like the missionary position or is he into something more kinky?' We don't bother, because while different straights have different sexual habits, it never occurs to us to ask such a question.

And there is the fact that while you and I might not care, I for one, am very aware that there are many who do and should they discover that someone who they veiw as an adversary happens to be gay, they will use it against them, because THEY are dumb, ignorant and vile and like it or not, this country is full of them. With that in mind, I would not expose anyone I cared about to their vicious prejudices if that person chose not to do so himself.

[ruggerson]

35. You're equating being gay with sexual positions?

What the fuck?

The religious right constantly reduces it to sex, I don't expect to hear that bullshit on DU.

I don't buy into their reality. I don't know how to make it clearer for you.

And when I discuss whether someone is gay, I'm thinking more about the composition of their family; is their partner of the same or opposite sex. Are they dating men or women? I'm not referring to their sexual positions. Jeez louise.

[Catrina]

40. No, actually I wasn't and I'm not sure, since I don't know you, if you're

just missing the point ~

First of all, what difference is there between a gay family and a straight family? Both are either single or have a partner ~ both are either childless or parents.

As far as sexual positions in the context of not seeing any difference between gays and straights, the example was meant to demonstrate that we ought to mind our own business about people's personal lives unless THEY give us some reason not to.

Sorry if I misunderstood you, though ~ maybe because the question wouldn't have occurred to me personally, I became a bit defensive. Apparently I didn't need to ~ :-)

[ruggerson]

42. No problem

the OP was not meant as anything other than idle musing: "wonder if he's dating women, men, or no one at all." I find it fascinating, though, that some people had such a strong reaction to it.

[kansasblue]

60. I'm with you...

Like asking is Fitz married? Is he cute? Do you like him? They all follow the same line of thinking as hetros. Which in the end then it's natural to ask if he's gay. The assumption of some here is then that quest for that info is a smear. I think it's just a natural flow that comes from some that would find him attractive. Is he married? Is he gay? = is he available?

Check your prejudices at the door

[Puglover]

76. Here here Ruggerson.

I don't think some people on this thread are getting the subtle homophobia here. The outrage over your harmless thread is quite telling. And I don't care if people posting here are queer or not. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being gay. Or straight. Period. Your question is harmless.

[fooj]

19. Who cares? He is my hero.

He is the hope that helps me to hang on.

:patriot:

Peace.

[MotR]

22. Who/what is Fitz?

[babylonsister]

23. Please review what I've provided and get back to all of us! And welcome!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=860418

[Kailassa]

25. As you are perfectly aware of the huge prejudice against gays,

to idly speculate about the gay/straight status of someone who has done nothing to make such speculation relevant is just troublemaking.

If you are just pretending that you don't know you are being uncivil to do so, then you are obviously in the wrong forum.

If you are actually too ignorant to realize that asking this question of a good man in a society that is filled with hatred towards gays is impolite, then I suggest you shut your mouth and stop posting in order to avoid further diminishing peoples' respect for you.

[babylonsister]

27. I love you Kailassa, and I won't

regret this in the a.m.! And an Aussie to boot! Your comments are welcome!

[Kailassa]

51. *hugs*, but please don't boot me.

Biting, yes, booting, no. ;-)

:hug:

[ruggerson]

30. But I don't live my life kowtowing to other people's prejudices

or bigotries or stupidities.

That's not the world or reality in which I reside.

If you live obeying the rules of other people's prejudices, you are an accomplice in their twisted worldview.

[Catrina]

37. But this isn't about you, you made it about someone else ~

You are free to live your life any way you want ~ but you do not have the right to make decisions for other people ~ especially since you must know what has already been pointed out to you, that this country is filled with ignorant homophobic hypocrites. It was fine to be black back in the fifties also, but it wasn't always safe. Thinking people don't expose others to the kind of viciousness that will most certainly be aimed at them in the climate in which we live without their permission.

Many times I saw this question asked about Kucinich in the early stages of the campaign and it wasn't done just to get him know him better as a person.

If someone is gay it is their choice whether or not to let the world know. Some chose not to.

As far as Fitz goes, as I said, last I heard he has a girlfriend, at least according to his friends ~

[ruggerson]

38. Who's making decisions for other people?

I asked a fucking question.

And there are a number of you whose posts have a subtext which REEKS of "we don't want our hero to be turn out to be gay."

If you choose to reside in a homophobic mindset, that's your choice, knock yourself out.

I don't.

[Xeric]

43. Stop the accusations

Ruggerson, not one person has said that. I don't even see that implied anywhere.
You need to pick your fights a bit more judicially.

[Catrina]

49. A misunderstanding ~ I think we've already sorted it out in my post

above. I saw your response ~ no problem ~ :-)

I think the reaction is more about the way the world is ~ not everyone is like you. I have a friend who is gay but is afraid he'll lose his job if it becomes known. I think he's right because of where he is. Those of us who care about him have suggested he move. But he loves his job ~ he's doing really good work. So, if someone were to ask that question about him, I would be very wary of their reasons and worried about him.

I think because that's how it is in many parts of the country, you are getting the responses, including from me, you got. People are worried about those they care about ~ it shouldn't be that way, but it is. :-(

So, I hope that explains it a little ~

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Puglover]

78. Really classy post.

Really classy.
:sarcasm:

[Meldread]

53. Proving Ruggerson's point.

While I don't care if Fitz is gay or straight, I was taken aback by how many people seemed to think it was an offensive question to ask. (As if it mattered one way or another, which it doesn't.) So I decided to conduct a little test. I decided to raise the stakes, by asking what most would consider a personal question. I asked if Laura Bush was kinky in bed. I've yet to see a single response of someone screaming "Oh no! We shouldn't ask those type of questions!" In fact, most people took it for what it was: Light hearted humor and a curiosity about a famous person. Ironic isn't it, that one could ask what a woman's favorite sexual position is, but can't ask if someone is gay or straight?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=879519

[Kailassa]

54. And you compare Laura Bitsh to Patrick Fitzgerald?

Besides, there are no radical right-wing perverts wanting to kill women for wanting to spank their husband or try a different sexual position.

As a woman, I'm free to do what I want with a husband, but once it becomes publicly known I'm a lesbian, there are disgusted faces and malicious tongues wagging all over the place.

By asking about Fitzie's orientation, Ruggerson is setting him up to become a target of malicious gossip.
As he continues doing so after having this pointed out, I can only assume this is his intention.

[Meldread]

55. ...and you what?

You seem to have an overly inflated view of the GLBT Forum. First of all, most straights ignore this place because frankly, the majority of straights on DU are happy only to give lip service to gay issues. Second, do you think because one person posted here asking a question out of curiosity that suddenly the mass media is going to be all over it? Get a grip.

Being gay isn't a bad thing, and gay people wanting to be able to identify with other gay people - particularly those who are famous and are powerful - is perfectly natural and normal. In fact I hope Fitz is gay, simply because I'd relish in the fact that a gay man took down a bigot President.

If you don't think you'd become the target of malicious gossip if it became known you spanked your Husband, or if you and your husband played some weird kinky sex games, believe me you have no idea. Republicans have a thing against sex, any type of sex, they even hate missionary position sex, because they view sex in an of itself as evil. That is simply one of the reasons they hate gay people. If you have sex and enjoy sex, then believe me the fundi's hate your guts.

Really, I don't see the harm in asking. Sure, it might be different if someone in the media asked, in an attempt to start malicious rumor, but this is a forum read by a handful of people, most of which are gay, and a forum largely ignored by non-gay people. That's simply a fact and anyone who says otherwise is blowing things out of proportion.

It really is no different than asking what Laura is like in bed. Or Hillary. Or anyone who is famous. People are curious about them and want to know. It's perfectly natural. One can argue that it might not be people's business, but even if that is the case it doesn't stop people from wondering. Obviously, you wonder as well, otherwise you wouldn't be putting so much energy into the argument.

[Kailassa]

56. You are asking a personal, impertinent question in a public forum.

As for your implication, (by telling me there is nothing wrong with being gay, as though I ever said there was,)that I might have something against homosexuality, you could not be further from the truth.

I have loved men, and I have loved women, and see it as my right to be with the person I love, regardless of their sex. This, however, has left me personally experiencing some of the huge prejudice againsts gays, in a way that admitting to playing kinky games with a male partner never has.

[Meldread]

58. You are still ignoring the point and putting words in my mouth.

First of all, I never asked if Fitz was gay. I could careless either way. I just find it particularly annoying when straights come waltzing down here into our forum trying to tell us what we can and cannot say. "You can't ask those types of questions!" If I want, I can ask any damn question I please. I've got freedom of speech, I'll ask if Fitz is giving free BJ's at McDonald's if I damn well feel like it, and there isn't a hellva lot you can do to stop me.

My point, however, is that no one found it wrong to ask about Laura's sexual habits, but plenty seem to not have any problem getting upset when someone - in a gay forum - asks if someone else is gay? Wooptie do?! Who cares? I don't. It's just sex. It's just friction. A penis is just a freakin' tube with skin, something every man has. A vagina is just a moist hole, something every woman has. It ain't nothing special, and while most people are in love with their own nobody else really cares.

Why do people care so much? It's a pointless discussion, and if you really didn't want it being discussed you wouldn't be participating. Gay? Straight? Bi? Hell! Maybe the man has taken a vow of celibacy! Who cares? I don't, and neither should you.

[Kailassa]

59. All you're trying to do is start an argument.

1. I did not waltze into a gay forum, This was on the main discussion page when I found it.

2. As you would know if you had read the post you are pretending to answer, I'm not straight.

3. It's you who is ignoring the points being made about exposing a person to possible gossip and discrimination by discussing a personal attribute which is none of your business.

[ruggerson]

63. Just by saying it's "impertinent"

you reveal your underlying homophobia. Asking if someone is gay is asking do they date or are they married to someone of the opposite sex or someone of the same sex. How is that "impertinent"?

The fact that you reduce discussions about sexuality to "kinky games" means you have bought, lock, stock and barrel, the religious rights propoganda that being gay is solely about sex.

It isn't. It's about who you are hotwired to fall in love with and then set up a (very public) family with in society. If you see two men moving in next door to set up house with a young child, when you refer to them as gay, you are not discussing their "kinky sex" or sex at all for that matter. You're discussing their social family structure.

What you're doing in this forum is trying to perpetuate a double standard which ends up killing gay men and lesbians. You are advocating silence, above all and at any cost.

We will not be silent, because we know the costs associated with being silent. The OP was meant as a fun, harmless musing on a public figures dating habits and should have remained that.

What it turned into was a stark reminder that even people who call them progressives harbor deeply destructive feelings about gay people and their status in society.

[Kailassa]

68. Huh? T'was meldread who brought kinky games into this .

I advocate a person's right to silence until They choose to make their inclinations known.

As for harboring destructive feelings toward gays, I am one, and make no secret of the fact.

Perhaps if you improved your comprehension and did something about you anger problem you would not need to spout such aggressive bullshit.

[ruggerson]

69. You're the one who came into this thread

screaming ad hominems. Sorry, but your excuses now do not ring either authentic or coherent.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ruggerson]

72. It is typical of one losing an argument with ad hominems

to vent and scream and then scurry off pronouncing that they have ended the conversation.

This was all too predictable.

See ya.

[ruggerson]

62. First of all

this has been discussed before. I remember a post about how can he still be single, and many women posted there and talked about how they found him attractive and speculated on his dating habits, and since it was in the context of HETEROSEXUAL dating, not one person remarked in those threads that the thread was an invasion of his privacy.

You are helping to perpetuate a double standard. And on top of that, you arrogantly demand that people adopt your worldview or you will start screaming and throwing ad hominems at them.

Sorry. Homey don't play that game.

[Kailassa]

70. I have had 2 precious gay friends killed by assholes.

And the police turned a blind eye to it because they were gay.

So I do not go spreading the word around about a person being gay. I do not gossip about someone's possible inclinations. However, I make no secret of my own gayness. Not that I'm really endangered by that, lesbians and bi women don't get anywhere near as much discrimination and hatred as gay guys do,

I'm not responsible for what other women have done. I do not make a habit of speculating on anyone's dating habits, gay or straight.

[ruggerson]

73. So have we all

and your perpetuation of a cone of silence will only serve to kill more.

Filth and hatred dies when you air it, not when you participate in its thriving in the dark.

[Smarmie Doofus]

65. I'm staying out of the line of fire on this one but.....

I'm more than certain ( if that's even a metaphysical possibility) that the Rovians and the mafia people before them and the Illinois crooks before them have long speculated re. Fitz and for whatever reason have decided not to go there.

Maybe they don't want to make him *mad*.

Whatever... I think he's beyond mega-cool.

[terrya]

66. I've never thought about it at all.

I suspect that he's straight. But that's really not important to me one way or another.

[pnwmom]

74. Straight. Straight. Straight.

Or he would have been outed by now, by the Swift-boaters.