"Children of LGBT parents are under tremendous pressure."

[pnwmom]

"They often find themselves at school with other students who deride 'faggots' and 'queers,' and they have to decide whether to tell anyone about their parents or to remain silent. They also find themselves in the precarious position of having to prove, through their own 'goodness,' the worth of their parents — a situation no child of straight parents faces. And it’s not just their parents they’d be letting down. There is a whole community whose rights too often appear to rest unfairly upon their narrow shoulders. There is no other community in America whose place in society is measured according to how “normal” their children turn out to be. And when the child actually happens to be gay (which is assumed to be 'bad'), the burden is all the heavier."

Any thoughts?

(This is from an article that shows how Abigail Garner's interviews, in her book "Families Like Mine," were mis-used in trumped-up "research" by Paul Cameron.)

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/Articles/000,012.htm

[sui generis]

1. well they wouldn't be under pressure without bigots to pressure them

how about LGBT find themselves under pressure, all the time, in every category?

I suppose if we go to outcomes they want one of the following:

1. if you're queer don't have children
2. if you have children, don't be queer
3. if you're queer and have children, don't let anyone know
4. if your children are queer there's something wrong with the parents
5. and especially the kids
6. just go back in the closet where y'all belong or we'll keep hurting your kids

Just don't know if I have patience for it. It's analyzing sending your black adopted kids to a mostly white school. None of us wants the burdens that are thrust upon us, especially when they're thrust upon us by people claiming to care about our kids while making life as miserable for them as possible.

Not wanting those burdens doesn't take them go away.

[pnwmom]

2. Absolutely true. But closing your eyes to the burdens doesn't

help your children.

If LGBT parents recognize the pressures on their kids (not all do), then they're more likely to help their kids deal with them.

For example, if at all possible, by living in a place where the family can be out -- not keeping the parents' life a secret.
By not suddenly making major changes -- "outing", moving, changing schools, bringing a partner into the family -- without giving kids sufficient time to absorb the changes.
By making sure the kids never feel they have to withhold confidences for fear of bringing pain to the parents.

[sui generis]

25. I agree to a point

I think you're preaching to the choir. We actually know all about these "pressures" from our own experience, often without supportive parents. Some of those elements of "pressure" are unavoidable, but you also have to give your kids credit for finding a peer group that is supportive or better, just doesn't care one way or another.

There is no gain without some pain, and parents as well as children have to be prepared for that, whether it has to do with something you can't help like your own sexuality or the sexuality of your parents or your skin color or even your perceived socioeconomic status (taken either way).

You can't avoid pain - all you can do is learn to deal with it, and figure out how much is real and how much is just anticipation. It makes things a lot less painful.

[BattyDem]

5. Exactly!

They say children are feeling pressure because they have gay parents ... and they're blaming the parents??? How about blaming the bigoted assholes who are harassing these kids?!

If you follow this logic, then all the world needs to do to eliminate bigotry is to "eliminate" any and all minorities, any and all people who don't follow a "mainstream" religion, any and all people who have an independent thought or live their lives in an unconventional way, etc. In other words, eliminate the things the bigots hate ... which is EXACTLY what they want! :eyes:

[pnwmom]

7. No one here's blaming the parents. Least of all, the person quoted

above. If you read the article, you'll see the quote is in the context of disputing a published journal article that is homophobic.

You can be HONEST about the stresses that kids of gays are under, without blaming their parents. The point is that parents need to be aware of this stress, because what parents do, or don't do, (i.e., how supportive they are) can make a big difference in how well their kids can handle things.

Anyone who's not feeling defensive about this issue might want to take a look at:

http://www.familieslikemine.com/

[BattyDem]

28. My bad. I did read the article, but ...

I missed the fact that the quote was disputing another article. :crazy: I should never read stuff like this when I'm tired.

Thanks for the heads up! :hi:

[William769]

3. Silence = Death

NUFF SAID!

In more ways than one can count.

[wellstone dem]

4. I think that single parents feel the same way, but

their kids don't feel the same pressure. Single parents hear many of the same arguments about kids turning out "bad", but I don't think the kids of single parents feel any or much stigma, or feel like they have to prove anything.

[Ms. Toad]

6. Not our daughter's experience...

Our daughter (15) recently volunteered to be interviewed for an article about gay adoption - which was the subject of a proposed ban in our state recently. She's already completely out about her parents at school - but having it printed in the newspaper might have been another thing. We talked to her about the difference. Her response - "nobody cares."

We live in a fairly conservative, tending toward rural community in Ohio. She's in public school, and has had virtually no trouble with her peers.

Children being blamed for their parents' "sins" is not unique to the GLBT community. I had a lot of trouble with my peers when I was growing up - as the child of liberal parents in a very conservative community during the Vietnam war and as the sibling of adopted children of color in a lily white community.

Should my parents have kept silent about the war because their views made me the target of taunts accusing me of being a commie-lover? Should my parents not have adopted children of color because their presence in our family in that community was outside the norm?

Some children, for a variety of reasons, are prone to being passively or actively targeted by emotional bullies. I was one of those in my early years. If there is not an obvious flash point (parents' or their own sexuality, skin color, religion, political affiliation, disability, etc.), the bullies will create them. Good parents of all flavors recognize this and love and support their children as they learn to trust and love themselves enough that the hurtful comments of others don't carry so much sting, and encourage their children in their search for a supportive community of friends who love them for who they are.

[pnwmom]

8. The fact that you're "out" is one of the reasons your daughter is

dealing so well with this, don't you think? Unfortunately, I have talked to lots of kids whose parents, even ones living with partners, are afraid to be out and expect their kids to keep their secret. This is toxic.

Another problem can occur when a parent suddenly outs himself and expects the child to instantly adjust (even though it took a long time for the parent to come up with the courage.)

Of course parents need to be true to yourselves. That's a given.

And I agree with you about good parents. I'm just saying that gay parents and their children run the whole gamut of functionality and dysfunctionality, just as straight parents and their kids. And that one of the extra stresses that some kids of gays have is that their parents aren't always aware of how they are affected.

[Ms. Toad]

9. Absolutely (our being out helps)

I had that in my original post, but decided it was too many points to make in a post that I hoped would be read. We've always been out (25 years out and together this fall).

Being out is generally healthier - whether that is as a parent or personally. (If for no other reason than that MOST people tend to be polite - and won't spit figuratively or literally in your face if they know who you are. I encounter far fewer people spewing garbage about GLBT folks than my closeted friends because I am visible.) That said, it can be very scary and physically dangerous to come out. I would never make that choice for someone other than myself.

When we chose to have a child together, part of our shared understanding in moving forward was that we did not have the right to ask our child to keep our relationship secret. Our view was that requiring her to hide our relationship gave her the message that there was something wrong with it. We have, however, given her relative freedom to be closeted about us if she wanted to. Just as I can encourage other GLBT folks to jump in and enjoy the freedom from being closeted - but have no right to force it on them - I can encourage my daughter to be open about us but ultimately it has to be her choice. I am delighted to say that she has never chosen to hide her relationship to her two moms, or our relationship with each other.

With respect to your last point - that is a big part of the point I was trying to make. People are people - we come in all shapes, colors, political stripes, and sexual orientation or identification, emotionally healthy - or struggling to make it day to day. Who we are impacts who our children are and how our children are viewed. Being gay is just one of the factors to take into account when an individual or couple decides to have a child. It does not inherently deserve any more or less weight than other factors (financial ability to raise a child, life expectancy, support of an extended family/community, friendliness of career choice to child rearing, strength of the couple's relationship, etc.).

Even though I shared them, my parents' political views, it certainly made living in the town in which I grew up uncomfortable. I "ran away" to college (1000 miles away) in part to find a place where I was not socially ostracized because of those shared views. Were my parents aware of the impact their activities (marching in civil rights marches, testifying against the death penalty, speaking out against the war) - or their choice to remain in a conservative small town - had on my interactions with my peers? Almost certainly - my father certainly felt the sting of isolation when his parents kicked him out of his family for being a conscientious objector. Did others criticize, as unfair to their biological children, their decision to adopt children who had no family and who did not look like the rest of the community - yes. Would it have made my childhood less stressful if they had made more mainstream choices - certainly, but my life would have been far less rich in the long run had they done so.

Being aware that choices I make as a parent can make life more challenging for my child does not necessarily mean the choices I make should be different. In my case, even though it was not always pleasant to be my parents' daughter, I am grateful my parents taught me by their example that having values and remaining true to them is important - even if it means life is more challenging.

[pnwmom]

10. When I first discovered other children of gays to talk to,

of all ages, I was very encouraged to learn how much better things are for many young people than they were for my peers growing up. That's because society has changed, and because they have parents like you.

But there are still some kids whose situations are less positive. In most of those cases, I think the parents are well-intentioned -- they just don't always have the awareness that they need; sometimes because their kids are afraid to hurt them by sharing painful information. I wish there was a way I could reach some of these parents without making them feel defensive. That's not my intent.

[Ms. Toad]

20. It would probably be helpful

to start by sharing the excitement you must have felt at the resource you have found (familieslikemine.com), and to share your story (to the extent you feel like sharing it).

With the exception of some families in which the parent discovered his or her sexual orientation and/or gender identification after having children, few of us became parents without thinking very hard about the impact our lives might have on our children. Many of us have very deliberately created communities of other families like ours - and would welcome additional resources for ourselves or our children.

Your offer of resources in other portions of this thread had a bit of an edge - probably reflecting some the isolation, hurt, betrayal, and protectiveness of your parent(s) you may have felt as an involuntary pioneer in gay family when there weren't that many, and when fewer gays were public about their orientation or families. Given the current attacks on our families by "scientists" like Cameron, and by politicians in many states who have introduced legislation to legally ban our families (in anticipation of introducing ballot measures in to try to repeat the last presidential election) it's pretty hard not to be suspicious of, and defensive around, someone suggesting we may not know how hard the choices we have made may unintentionally make the lives of our children.

[pnwmom]

21. You're right. It was a tremendous relief when I discovered

COLAGE (children of lesbians and gays everywhere), twenty-some years after my father suddenly moved out (in the height of the AIDS hysteria) and into a home with his partner.

When he outed himself (after 25 years of marriage), it was both a relief and a very stressful time. For one thing, it helped us kids finally make sense of his obvious feeling of alienation from his family. And his partner turned out to be a wonderful person; much easier to get along with than our father. But it was a very hard time to suddenly find ourselves outed as the children of a gay man -- which still bore the stigma of mental illness, even criminality.

You, of course, know the history. What might surprise you, though, is how many closeted parents are still out there, especially in small towns and in certain parts of the country. Some of them deliberately created families that they knew they would have to keep secret. Others didn't discover their sexuality until they already had children.

IMHO, it's better not to have kids unless you're living in a place where you will feel comfortable being out yourself. But people who fall in the latter group might not have any good choices, since uprooting children from their schools and extended families is a painful thing, too. Maybe all they can do is educate themselves and try to remain as open as they can to talking about the stresses in their kid's lives.

Sorry if I haven't been expressing myself well. Thanks for not giving up on me.

[theHOMOagenda]

27. Thanks for your thoughts...

As the wicked stepmonster in our relationship it has always pained me to see how torn our daughter is between the two worlds. When we attend functions together where both sides of the family are present I can see the stress on her face as she tries to reconcile her feelings. She is in a difficult position so we give her lots of room to breathe. As she has gotten older it is apparent that she is sorting out the cultural differences for herself.

Her mother's family is rabidly conservative, homo-hating and wealthy. Our side is, well, Auntie Mame. Although she loves both her families I can see clearly the refuge she feels with us from all the dysfunction associated with the conservative xristian lifestyle.

And, yes, there has been bullying at school and knowing teenagers there will probably be more incidents through highschool. Some situations she will have to handle herself - that is part of growing up. We have already had one situation where we had to step in and school officials were more than happy to speak with us without judgement.

As far as stupid people that roll eyes and whisper... I think our 'go f*ck yourself" attitude serves us well. It has also attracted heteros to us that also find this kind of bigotry truly disgusting.

And thanks for the speaking up! :hug:

[Smarmie Doofus]

16. Now I'm confused. If being "out" is good for the child....

>>>>>The fact that you're "out" is one of the reasons your daughter is
Posted by pnwmom


dealing so well with this, don't you think? Unfortunately, I have talked to lots of kids whose parents, even ones living with partners, are afraid to be out and expect their kids to keep their secret. This is toxic.>>>>>>


.... then the kids in the families involved with the White House Easter egg hunt are *fortunate*. Yes?

I understood you to say the *opposite* in the Easter Egg thread.

De-confuse me.

[pnwmom]

19. There's a huge difference, I think, between being out in your every day

life -- which is the healthiest way to be -- and purposely thrusting your young kids into the limelight . . . turning them into a sort of poster child for the cause.

Though, as I thought about it, I realized that few of the parents involved in that Egg Hunt were actually trying to "showcase" their children . It did bother me that the organizers used that word, and it made me think about the general issue. But, thinking about it more, I'm far less concerned about the typical Easter roll parent than about the parents (straight or gay) who, on a day to day basis, make their kids feel that they have an image to live up to.

[Smarmie Doofus]

23. So the WH Easter Egg kids are lucky in that....

there parents are "out" ( presumably) but unlucky in that they ( the kids) are being "thrust" into the limelight.

Hmmm... aren't *all* kids of parents who are out, thrust, to some extent, into the limelight?

I'm not quite getting your logic here. Is it a matter of *degree*?


>>>>>But, thinking about it more, I'm far less concerned about the typical Easter roll parent than about the parents (straight or gay) who, on a day to day basis, make their kids feel that they have an image to live up to.>>>>>>>

Well, I doubt if you'll find anyone , in *this* forum especially, that will disagree with that.

[pnwmom]

24. Yeah, I guess it is a matter of degree. And so there isn't

a nice bright line that shouldn't be crossed. Which makes this all the harder to discuss.

But I'll try again. Isn't it one thing to have a family that is matter-of-factly out in their ordinary life, and another to have a parent arranging for your family to have its picture in the newspaper? To literally go in front of the cameras?

Or for a parent to give his child the impression that the child's behavior will have an effect on how other people view gay families in general? Isn't that a bigger burden than a child should have to bear?

[W_HAMILTON]

11. I'm not sure what your point is...

The link doesn't work for me, so I can only go by the quote you posted, and without any back-story, I'm not sure what point you are arguing.

To say that kids of straight parents aren't put in "precarious positions" as well is simply wrong. Tell that to kids who are adopted, or children of interracial relationships, or kids whose parents have had problems (such as substance abuse), or kids who have different religious beliefs than the majority of those around them -- the list could go on and on.

Again, I don't know what the article is trying to point out. Is it implying that the parents are at fault because these kids can have a tough time growing up? What do they expect them to do, just stop being gay? Would they ask black people to stop being black because their kid was hassled in school? Would they ask a Muslim family to give up their religion because their kid got picked on in school?

You're dealt whatever hand you are dealt. If the article is pointing the finger solely at the parents, then it is wrong. Only in today's bullshit society can you hate on someone because of who they are, then in turn blame THEM for you hating them. Yeah, it's their fault you're a hateful son of a b*tch who's causing people grief for no good reason. Instead, they should be pointing out the bigotry and hatred that is running rampant in our society, and blame it for the crap some of these kids are being put through.

That's the real problem, not the parents (at least not in the majority of cases). Don't you think most gay parents (and gay people in general) would love to be out in the open and treated like everyone else? Most of the problems these kids face is because the parents feel they can't be open in that way. That's not the parents' fault, it's society's fault.

[pnwmom]

12. No, the article's not about implying that the parents

are at fault. It's just a paragraph out of an article on another topic (the writer of the quote is disputing a published journal article written by a homophobe named Paul Cameron).

If you're interested in the topic of what LGBT parents can do to help their kids deal with the stresses, a really good site is at
www.familieslikemine.com

[W_HAMILTON]

14. Well what's your take on it...

...that was my point. I don't really know how to respond, since I can't bring up the whole article, and you didn't comment much on the part that you quoted. That one paragraph just makes it sound like they are trying to place all the blame on the parents. That's why I tried to respond to a few possible points, since I don't know what point the article is trying to point out :)

If it's the fact that kids of gay parents have a tough time, yeah, I'm sure that's obvious. But it's not the parent's fault per se, it's because of how they choose to deal with society. I highly doubt most gay parents would want to purposefully put undue stress on their kids.

[pnwmom]

17. The whole article is really addressing a different topic -- how

this guy named Cameron misappropriated interviews and other info from three gay-friendly books, then incorporated them into his homophobic article.

I totally agree with you that most gay parents don't want undue stress on their kids. But I know (from talking to many of their 20-somethings), that parents are not always as aware as they could be -- or as aware as they want to be -- about the various pressures their kids face. That's not blaming parents for the pressures -- just saying that if we're open and informed about the stresses we can deal better with them. So, a good place to start is Abigail Garner's website or her book (Families Like Mine).

P.S. She has never met me and has no idea how many people I've recommended her book (and website) to!

[progmom]

26. thanks for that link

my son is 4

[foreigncorrespondent]

13. BRAVO!!!

Excellent post!!!!

:yourock:

[foreigncorrespondent]

15. Well. if it wasn't for bigotry...

...these kids wouldn't be facing that now would they?

[pnwmom]

18. Of course they wouldn't. But just because someone else

is a bigot doesn't relieve parents of the need to be as supportive of their kids as they can. And that means staying informed and aware, and trying not to be too defensive.

(All parents need to do this, not just LGBT. It's just that the kids of LGBT parents have an extra set of issues that their parents might not always understand.)

[foreigncorrespondent]

22. *sigh*

It seems you want to continue blaming parents here. You are missing the bigger picture because you are hiding behind your own issues. I give up, have a wonderful night.

Edit: typo