I DON'T like the word "homosexual"

[Erika]

In my opinion, it identifies GLBT relationships only by sexual ideology, disregarding the spiritual, emotional, and intellectual relationships.

In fact, to me, the word homosexual is like the "N" word.

Just my thoughts.

[tuvor]

1. It's the counterpart to "heterosexual"

You must have a problem with that word, too...?

[justin899]

15. No

The clinical history of the word, "homosexual," isn't the same for "heterosexual" at all. We don't have a history of forcing treatment on "heteroseuxals" and anti-gay bigots use that word specifically for that reason.

[marmar]

2. Interesting...

but I don't know that I'd compare it to the N word. Homosexual is a clinical word to denote a sexual orientation (even if it means something broader in a connotative sense). The "N" word is an intentional slur.

[justin899]

16. I agree with you, "homosexual" isn't euivalent to the "n" word.

It's the "F" word (and I don't mean "fuck") that is equivalent to the "N" word.

[dipsydoodle]

19. "N" word is an intentional slur.

because (you) made it so. It's original use in the 1700's was purely descriptive. It meant having the appearance of someone from Niger. I didn't just make that up - I checked ages ago in the english version of the Complete Oxford Dictionary.

Hillbilly is an equally appalling slur but it don't seem to stop people from using it.

[marmar]

22. I didn't make it so...

Racists in the South post-slavery did. ... And in the United States it has an entirely different context.

[dipsydoodle]

23. OK then .........

I should have said it was made so despite using the original word. Same could easily be said of Sambo which was by far one of the most common given names of the slaves.

[Xeric]

3. It's not the word that matters necessarily

It's not the word. It's the thought behind the word.
One can use the "N" word or the "F" word as an epithet, or as an act of defiance against the epithet. It depends on who "owns" the word.

[ladjf]

4. I think the simple accuracy of the word "homosexual" is perfect.

It seems without bias or prejudice. Anything further that needs to be known or discussed about the subject can flow from the one simple word. Just my thoughts in it. It's just a word, not an essay.

[Erika]

7. How does that fit into the transgendered?

Just wondering.

[Lib Grrrrl]

13. Hmmmm

Maybe, as a T...I can speak to that subject.

I think that T is one small part - one tiny slice of my rich and diverse life...and, if you think my being T is the most interesting...or most important identifier about me...chances are pretty good I don't have much interest in getting to know you.

It's like...I have a 100 life...and T is, perhaps...2 percent of it.

Why not just call me "human" or "female" like everyone else...and, like everyone else you encounter...find out what kind of movies/activities/books/hobbies I like...find out what kind of sports/weather I like...find out what kind of food I like, maybe even find out a few of my political opinions on hot issues of the day...as you would any other random stranger.

Again...if you think my being T is the most interesting...or most important....identifying factor about me - chances are good I don't really want to know you.

Because I really just want to get treated like everyone else...and not an object to be looked at...labelled, judged...Hey, I just wanna be me.

In order to be ME...I had to do something rather drastic and expensive and irreversible, and, I grant...not very common. Nevertheless...skirts and pants were invented for a reason. It's none of anyone's damned business, really, what I have or don't have under it. How about just treating us like human beings...and just calling us "friend" "neighbor" "co-worker" "human" or just by our names??

And, for God's sake, use the correct gender pronouns, please. Nothing is more offensive to the T person than to get called the wrong gender pronoun. Come on...you know better...we didn't spend an average of $30,000 so that you could continue to use the wrong gender pronouns on us...show a little respect, huh?

[readmoreoften]

26. homosexual doesn't fit me well, but I don't think it's a slur

I just say femme. I'm a femme with a transgendered butch.

I have problem with "homosexual" because I'm not attracted to my partner because s/he's the "same" sex as me. I don't feel that the appelation fits either of us very well. The word "hetero" implies diversity and multiplicity of sexuality, so, boy, I feel like that's a misnomer. That's why I call them "straights". I do ID as lesbian because I feel a part of the continuum of lesbian culture, even though my partner may transition some day and my partner is more "third sex" than anything. I'll call myself "a homo" as a joke, but I'll never refer to myself as "a homosexual" or refer to my "homosexuality".

I think of myself more in cultural terms (femme, lesbian) than clinical/medical terms (homosexual)

[ladjf]

34. I think that your description is excellent because it more precisely

defines your sexual orientation. The term "femme" is subset of the main root word "homosexual", a person who is the feminine component of a homosexual relationship.

[readmoreoften]

35. So if my partner transitions, am I no longer a homosexual?

I'm attracted to butches and transmen. (Although I wouldn't date a stealth transman.)

[ladjf]

41. You are about to go deeper than I'm able to handle. However,

the definition of one's sexual orientation would seem to be an independent predilection. That is, it is what it is regardless of the nature of past, present and/or future partners. Obviously the words heterosexual and homosexual can only accurately describe individuals who exclusively have sex with clearly defined opposite genders that agree with clearly anatomical conditions. Beyond that, it is going to take more than a word to further delve in the numerous shades of gender and gender preferences.

I had a female patient who believed that she was a homosexual male in a female body. Consequently, she longed for and intended to have a sex change operation so that she would have a penis. Her only sexual experiences were the same ones that a homosexual male would have had. I only include this case to back up your inferences of the complexities of how individual view themselves.

[readmoreoften]

47. Sure, I know more "trannyfags" than straight transmen.

A lot of the trannyfags I know (most of the guys I know call themselves that, I'm not being perjorative) don't think of themselves as homosexual males "trapped" in female bodies and they don't obsess on having a penis. Most transmen don't have bottom surgery at all these days. A good portion of the men I know are perfectly AOK with that. There's even a club night called Manhunt for transmen who only date other transmen. Once you get out of the binary of two sexes, there really is no room for "homosexuality". It's all about what one privileges. Gender is generally more important to me than sex. Same with my partner. My partner would date a transwoman before she'd date another butch. And, in our community, there is a lot of stress for femmes to drop their lesbian identity after their partner transitions. I wouldn't, but I know many who have. There is a lot of pressure on hard butches to transition these days.

But beyond all of this, I don't like the clinical nature of the word or its history. Not only is it inaccurate and/or based on a reductive model of sex and gender, it makes us sound like scientific phenomena.

[ladjf]

48. You have obviously given these issues much more thought

than most people. Forgive me if I tend to try to look at things scientifically. It's just the way my mind works.

Thanks for the interesting conversation.

[ladjf]

33. It would be incorrect to refer to a transgendered person as

being "homosexual". The transgendered person has ambiguous sexual traits.

[justin899]

17. That's complete and utter nonsense

You obviously don't have a grasp of how that word has been used throughout history. It certainly is not without prejudice!

[ladjf]

32. When I described the word "homosexual" as being without

prejudice, I was using the term in a strictly scientific way that simply defined sex between individuals of the same gender. I am well aware that society evolves words through time in ways that have meanings far different than the original usages.

The word Negro, Spanish for black, used to describe humans with black skin. That simple, correct description has morphed many times. My father, a caucasian educator in the South was an active civil rights leader in the late forties and early fifties. He spoke at many gatherings of African Americans on subjects such as voting rights and court representation. At that time, the respectful term for black people was Negro. The word black was insulting to African Americans at that time. Years later, as an old man, my father took a job at a community college in Tenn. He didn't know that blacks were no longer referred to as Negroes and when he did so, his black students were insulted and were self-righteously rude to him, not knowing that forty years earlier he had diligently worked for their causes, before they were even born.

Look what happened to the simple word gay. It now, almost exclusively describes the sexual orientation of male homosexuals. There is no scientific reason that being referred to as "gay" is less prejudicial than "homosexual".

[TomInTib]

5. What would you prefer?

I, personally, detest the word "rich" when used to describe those with money/assets.

It's like we are made of Devil's Food Cake rather than hard work and perserverance.

What is wrong with "wealthy"?

So what would you rather use than "homosexual"?

Just wondering.

Thanks

[Erika]

8. I would prefer to leave the sexuality out of it.

Why is it significant to point out one's sexual preference?

[arikara]

9. Precisely...

Why does someone have to be labelled because of who they love?

[TomInTib]

10. That is it, Erika.

We are what we are.

We come into this place the same way and make the same exit.

There but for fortune go you or I.

[BR_Parkway]

20. I find "sexual preference" much more offensive than "homosexual"

because preference indicates a choice which I don't personally subscribe to.

If you did away with the words like homosexual - how exactly would you word a hate crime bill?

You're argument is almost circular - leave the sexuality part out of it, just treat us like everyone else.

Except that if my spouse wasn't a man instead of a woman, I'd get treated like everyone else. It is the reason I get treated differently. So, in some ways it defines me - not the sum of me, but certainly one of the ingredients.

With all the actual, important issues facing gay people, this isn't even on the radar to me. If you want to find a reason to be offended, you shouldn't have to look very far. Most people looking for things like that can find slights in nearly every situation they encounter.

[Book Lover]

6. I wouldn't go that far, but

I do agree that homosexual is a very clinical word. Personally, I like queer as it covers a broad spectrum of folks' interactions with each other, plus I like the way it sounds.

[Erika]

11. Agreed. Paris Hilton's erotic escapades are truly queer

Heffner at 80 has even more queer escapades. An 80 year old with three young gals to serve at his pleasure is truly queer.

[readmoreoften]

27. I don't really think of a man having sex with three women as queer.

Especially since hefner is a hierarchical figure in that domain. Threesomes are about as standard a straight male fantasy as you can get. Paris Hilton may be an icon of gay culture, but I don't see her, as a person as "queer". Practictioners of BDSM...queer. "Straight" people into genital body modification...queer. Nuns...queer, queer, queer. I don't really see playboy bunnies or girls who perform lesbian sex just to arouse heteroboys as "queer". It's just the new fashionable way of being straight.

I don't think every new capitalist fad is queer. In the 1980s girls wore fedora hats and skinny ties because they saw it on Mtv. They still had all the rights that straight people had and never got gaybashed for being "dykes". I also don't think blue jeans and bobby socks on girls in the 50s was queer. If anything a lot of this stuff is queer appropriation.

[ronnykmarshall]

53. La Hilton WANTS to be a gay icon.

Her sorry ass somehow was Grand Marshall at the LA Pride parade last year. She WAS NOT recieved that well. I missed getting to heckle her ... I went back up to my condo to wiz. My SO said a lot of people boo'd her and this guy we met was going to throw a Carl's Jr hamberger at her.

A lot of people wrote the LA Pride peeps and complained. I didn't get ONE e-mail responce from the chicken shits.

My guess is that they were a bit concered about La Hilton's safety because they had LA Country Sheriff Deputies walk along side her fucking float. I wish that guy could have got the burger airborne and smacked her in the fucking face.

[cboy4]

55. She probably wouldn't have even blinked considering the bitch is used

to having "sauce" propelled all over her.

[ronnykmarshall]

56. You are baaaaadddddd!

I'm suddenly having a tingling in my pantie parts right now.

[cboy4]

58. LOL!

[cboy4]

29. Hmmm, I think gay people referring to one another as "queer" is fine,

just as I think it's fine that African Americans refer to one another as "nigga."

However I very much object to non-gays and non-African Americans using those words.

[daveskilt]

12. listen to its use in this fun propoganda piece

http://www.archive.org/stream/boys_beware/boys_beware_256kb.mp4

[theHOMOagenda]

14. Dang

Now whatever shall I do?

[OneBlueSky]

18. way back when, they used to call us "inverts" . . . n/t

.

[William769]

21. I am a "homosexual"

I am proud to be a homosexual, I have spent my life as a homosexual & will continue to do so. With all the problems facing our community today, this is your problem? :eyes:

[cboy4]

31. Actually William769, I think words like "homo-sex-shoe-wull"

are used very negatively by the christian crusaders who want to prohibit gay rights.

THE HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA!

Of course we're homosexual, but what's wrong with using the word "gay" around straight people?

On Castro, around other gay people....sure, homo, fag, queer, homosexual....I have no problem.

[mitchtv]

49. I am "homosexual"

is more how II feel

[ronnykmarshall]

54. I prefer cock sucker m'self!

:loveya:

[mitchtv]

64. at least its a noun

I have doubts about homosexual, always thought it was an adjective

[Siyahamba]

24. I always thought that was the proper term

It sounded pretty accurate to me, roughly Latin for "attracted to the same sex."

Now I hear that "gay" is the preferred term, from places like GLAAD...I'm really not comfortable with that, though, with the way people throw around "That's so gay" as an insult.

[sui generis]

25. I dislike it intensely because

when I was growing up it had only negative connotations, and mostly of some form of flaw or mental illness.

I "put up" with it, and it is still a valid non-clinical term, but in ordinary non-anthropological discussions I tend to use "gay" or "GLBT" instead.

At the end of the day, it's just a word, and a word itself means nothing without someone's intent to use it to harm. I use the word "Republican" like "the N word", and I will be one of those cranky senile old embarrassing relatives who occasionally blurts it out loudly at a birthday party at a restaurant,

"why did you take me to a restaurant that has all these gat dam republicans in it? eh? what's that? battery on my hearing aid is out again. Look! they're even holding hands! republicans are everywhere, what's this country coming to!"

:rofl:

[cboy4]

28. Well, I disagree that it's like the "N" word. "Fag" is the "N" word IMO.

However, I really do hate hearing the right wing christian fundamentalist extremists say: "hoe-moe-sehx-shoe-wull"

It's almost like they pronounce it that way to piss us off.

I prefer "gay" and "straight."

Just my thoughts!

[daveskilt]

36. here is where they learned that pronounciation

http://www.archive.org/stream/boys_beware/boys_beware_256kb.mp4

[cboy4]

38. Jesus. I'm not sure what disturbs me more. This or one of Bin Laden's

audio tapes :eyes:

[daveskilt]

44. its from the people who brought you "duck and cover" nuclear survival tips

is it any wonder that anyone older than 50 is really likely to have a warped view when they grew up being forced to watch this crap

[GymDude]

30. I think it has caused.....

a lot of misunderstanding. It denotes that we are people who just like to have sex with others of the same gender. So people "object" to "homosexuality", i.e., same-sex sex. To them it is a sexual taste like s&m, etc. Notice in any anti-gay screed, they reduce it to that....that kind of SEX is bad, it's not natural, etc.

[ruggerson]

37. It's why I always say affectional orientaton

in addition to sexual orientation.

It throws them for a loop, because it forces them to realize that this is about who people fall in love with and create families with. Sex is just part of it, no more or less than in a hetero relationship.

[kweerwolf]

39. While it's true that "homosexual" is a scientific/clincial word ...

... the disturbing part of that is that it's original meaning denoted a pathology. The Religious reich is being very precise in its decision to focus on the word "homosexual" because it harkens back to the days when the term was defined as a mental illness/pathology.

The American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (the list of mental illnesses, their symptoms and treatment) back in 1974. What the extreme right is trying to do in using the word "homosexual" almost exclusively is to re-pathologize the word and thus smear an entire class of people with the slur.

In the mouths of the fun-D'uh-Mental-ists like Falwell, Dobson, Robertson, etc., etc., the word "homosexual" carries the same stigma as the N-word from the mouth of a racist.

Interestingly, Boston's In Newsweekly ran a piece on this subject just last week. I've copied a portion below and included a link for those who want to explore the word more.

'H*mosexual' is the new 'f*ggot'

There's a problem with the term "homosexual."

Gay rights opponents understand it, and they exploit it.

The problem?

Look at the word and listen to it: "homosexual." It looks academic and it sounds biological. In 1868, when "homosexual" was first used, the scientific ring of it was a welcome improvement over the connotation of moral failing implied in that era's term "sodomite."

But today the clinical tone is a handicap; it implies a medical condition, and a medical condition can be "fixed" - read "ex-gay." That's a problem.

http://www.innewsweekly.com/innews/?class_code=Op&article_code=1685&PHPSESSID=d4e567aaea1a0cb25008b11cc3025aa4

[justin899]

40. Excellent Post...

and boy was that article ever timely. Thanks for the link.

[NMMNG]

42. "Homosexual" having been used to define a "mental disorder"

is the only reason I'm uncomfortable with the term (that combined with the fact that the religious wingnuts are trying to re-stigmatize the term). Even though the APA removed Homosexuality from the DSM, the term Homosexual is once again being made into a derogatory term.

[Maat]

43. I agree with you, Kweerwolf (n/t).

[cboy4]

46. BRAVO!! Kweerwolf!!

:applause:

[FranMonet]

45. Homo mean man

One has to laugh every time their called a Homo because Homo means man as in Homosapian, thinking man or Homohabilis tool making man and of course Homoerectus, upright man. so the next time somebody calls you a Homo just look at them and ask so what are a chimpanzee?

Female homosexuals are actually straight women by definition since they are attracted to men. Homosexual is a poor term to use to describe people attracted to the same gender as they are . so lets simplify the problem by calling such people gay.

[ronnykmarshall]

57. Are you speaking in "Tarzan"?

Homo mean man?

[Smarmie Doofus]

50. Near as I can tell from this thread ......

most here like "gay" 'cause the political homophobes like "homosexual". But the 'phobes use 'homosexual' only 'cause we use "gay". If they used "gay", we'd be pushing "homosexual".

Personally, I prefer "homosexual"; preferably as an *adjective*, not as a noun. As in" homosexual person". Unlike "gay", it is is the most neutral term available... implying nothing, pro or con, about the person being described, other than his/her sexual orientation. "Gay" smacks of euphemism born of desperation.

Which ,in fact ,is exactly how it was born.

Both terms can and are abused. In public school settings today, "gay" is utterly synonymous with 'bad', 'uncool', 'inferior'. "Homosexual" is never heard. "Gay" has replaced it in the youth vernacular but changing the terminology does not seem to have altered the stigma.

OTOH, 'gay' seems to have replaced 'fagot' which is *rarely* heard, and is reserved for situations where violence seems imminent.

[cboy4]

52. You need to review the posts on this thread...specifically the points

about the homosexual-mental disorder connection.

Homosexual, used among lots of NON-GAYS, most certainly does imply "con."

Just listen to the way a lot of them pronounce it: "homo-sexxx-shoe-wulllll" It's ridiculous.

Plus, I very much disagree with your comment that gay is "utterly synonymous with 'bad,' 'uncool' and 'inferior' in public school settings.

"Fag" and "Queer," "Fairy" and "Homo" are negative words when used by straight kids. Not "Gay."

I respect your opinion but I think you're way off base in your analysis.

edit: flip-flopped two words that were reversed

[Smarmie Doofus]

60. Two points:

>>>>>>>You need to review the posts on this thread...specifically the points Updated at 4:59 AM

Edited on Thu Apr-27-06 03:21 AM by cboy4
about the homosexual-mental disorder connection.
>>>>>>>>>

I doesn't logically follow that homophobic mental health professionals ( there were... and *are*... many) necessarily where not using the best ( i.e. most accurate) word available, EVEN IF they had an agenda to pathologize what ought not to have been pathologized in the first place. Sometimes jerks and fools do great things in spite of themselves.
"Homosexual" is still the most accurate, least ambiguous word in the lexicon to describe 'persons attracted to the same sex'. IMHO.

OTOH, lot's of 'gay' people are not " happy" , "joyous", "flashy", "flamboyant" etc., etc. the other English language meanings of the word "gay". "Gay", like 'Queer' after it, was a case of trying to 'own' the stereotype by owning the word. This may work to one's advantage.... or not. Personally, I'm OK with not having to go around feeling "happy" all the time, even when I'm not. Or having people think I 'ought' to be.





>>>Plus, I very much disagree with your comment that gay is "utterly synonymous with 'bad,' 'uncool' and 'inferior' in public school settings.>>>>>

>>>>

This could be a regional or class thing, but in the urban middle school/ high school where I work, 'gay' is NEVER used by the kids except pejoratively. At least not that I ever hear.

[insleeforprez]

51. Yes, I would prefer to be referred to as "gay"

But when most people I know refer to us as "homosexuals," they mean no offense by it. And in the end, that's all that matters. The word in itself means nothing; it means exactly what the speaker intends it to mean.

[Guy Fawkes]

59. I DON'T like the word "white"

I'm kidding. I can see what you mean: people look at the word 'homosexual' and see only the 'sexual' part of it. But the word is scientifically correct- a homosexual is a person who is attracted (physically and emotionally) to people of the same (homo) sex (sexual). So until a better word is entered into the general lexicography, homosexual will remain the norm. And besides, its better then what a lot of people call us.

What does bother me- and this may be worthy of a new thread- is the word "fag". A "fag", as far as I'm concerned, is a cigarette or a piece of wood. When I heard someone today, in anger over homophobia, say "I'm no fag hater!", it got to me a little. That word makes me cringe.

[kdpeters]

61. "Homosexual" is what it is.

I don't find it offensive in and of itself. It's kind of a clinical definition based on sexuality, but it has a more precise meaning than does gay. It has a clear definition. Sometimes, 'homosexual' is better word to use, i.e. studies or surveys.

'Gay', on the other hand, is very hard to define. It encompasses elements of identity and culture even though many members of the gay community have nothing in common other than homosexuality. It's the self definition that most of us have chosen for ourselves. When you're talking about the person, I also prefer gay.

Of course, the right wingers always use 'homosexual' as a show of contempt. You're not supposed to like it. They purposefully discount everything about our relationships except for a morbid obsession with our sex lives. Nor do they feel any need to show respect by referring to you how you prefer to be called. You rightly feel disrespected; that's the whole point.

[gator_in_Ontario]

62. Maybe "N" word as in "Negro" outdated..n/t

[terrya]

63. It's too simplistic and clinical sounding.

I do agree with you. It only seemingly defines sexual activity. Gay and lesbian are better terms...they encompass your identitity as a whole...the spirtual, emotional and intellecutal side of our relationships.

[mitchtv]

65. It is best used as an adjective

as in Homosexual man/ woman/ goose/ penquin/ etc